Help Is At Hand

jambutty · 11-09-2008, 16:09

Gordon’s mob have announced that there will not be a ‘windfall’ tax on the energy companies but has come up with measures outlined at http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7609036.stm

It all boils down to the government and the big energy companies funding home insulation.

But the energy companies now suggest that they will have to claw back their outlay with further price increases.

Can’t win can we?

derekgas · 11-09-2008, 16:14

Any measure other than windfall taxes or similar was going to end the same way, there is more to come too, warmfront (owned by eaga, who are supposed to be non profit making) will probably do the bulk of the work as with the heating grants, wonder if there are financial links between some of the energy companies and eaga/warmfront?

WillowTheWhisp · 11-09-2008, 16:26

I have been thinking about this and it seems to me that some of us are going to end up worse off. For instance we don't have any cavities in our walls so no cavity wall insulation for us. We don't have a loft. We have a loft conversion, so nowhere to put loft insulation unless you rip all the slates off and do it from the outside. So, the energy companies are going to be made to fund all these insulation measures and will probably put prices up to cover their expenses. That means that we will have no benefit and yet will end up paying more to finance other people's home improvements. Nice one Gordon.

BERNADETTE · 11-09-2008, 16:32

Willow our loft was converted and they insulated it

jambutty · 11-09-2008, 17:04

The whole structure of paying for energy is wrong and favours those with larger houses at the expense of us down here.

Gas and electricity prices are tiered. Meaning that a fixed number of kWh used is at one price and the remainder is at a lower price. Once upon a time many years ago there were three tiers, with each one less than the previous one.

So the more energy people used the cheaper it got thus favouring those who use a lot of energy. And who is that? People with larger houses. Surely it should be the other way around?

A letter on ITV’s Teletext Letters pages (page 328) yesterday reminded me of what I have been arguing for years. The writer suggested that the tier system be reversed. A cheaper tariff to begin with and an increased tariff for the remainder. Sadly this does not work at the current rates. To make a reversal anywhere near effective, the primary total would have to be doubled.

As an exercise I used my Energy Spreadsheet to double the primary total and reversed the two tariffs. My bill became 23% cheaper.

Sadly a reversal is not going to happen.

There is only way to curb the greed of the energy companies and that is to cap increases to the rate of inflation, the same rate of inflation that the government uses for calculating pension increases.

And that is not going to happen either.

This government is so deep in the pocket of industry and commerce that their lily livered attempts at governing the country for the benefit of all is nullified before it even starts.

Bonnyboy · 11-09-2008, 18:52

Most of the properties around here are stone fronted terraced houses, even though they have wall cavities they can’t have Cavity Wall Insulation done on a single property. There is no dividing wall, if you will, inside the cavity between properties. The only way I can think of is having a whole row of homes done in the one go. I can’t see that being funded on the scale which would be required.

accyman · 11-09-2008, 19:08

gordon brown says the gas companies are paying for all these upgrades and estimates they will be paying out 1 billion pounds

gordon brown says the cost will not be passed on to the customer by the fuel companies

the fuel companies say it probabily will

i think its a pretty safe bet to assume the cost of this scheme will result in even higher fuel charges to te customer negating any effort to reduce our fuel bills

also the price of fuel has dropped quite a bit recently hence diesil and petrol costs falling yet british gas etc are still raising their prices

perhaps if british gas didnt spend god knows how much sending out so called free bulbs they wouldnt need to raise prices , also if we use less electricity then they will raise prices to reap back what they loose just like they will reap back any money spent providing homes with insualtion and double glazing

all a big con and it just shows how the govenment looks after fuel companies more than us the poor sods that are getting screwed over

WillowTheWhisp · 12-09-2008, 07:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by BERNADETTE

Willow our loft was converted and they insulated it

Ours was supposed to have been insulated when it was converted but they obviously didn't do a very good job because that floor of the house is always cold in winter and hot in summer. The problem that we have now is that in order to do any further insulating, which would certainly be beneficial, it would have to be approached from the roof direction by removing the slates. I somehow can't see the Government or the fuel companies being willing to reroof the house!

jaysay · 12-09-2008, 10:21

I'm so thrilled by these new ideas, free loft insulation, I ain't got a loft, free cavity wall insulation, already got it, free double glazing, had it years, free draught proofing, already draught proofed, a well just better pay up and smile then

andrewb · 12-09-2008, 10:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp

I have been thinking about this and it seems to me that some of us are going to end up worse off. For instance we don't have any cavities in our walls so no cavity wall insulation for us. We don't have a loft. We have a loft conversion, so nowhere to put loft insulation unless you rip all the slates off and do it from the outside. So, the energy companies are going to be made to fund all these insulation measures and will probably put prices up to cover their expenses. That means that we will have no benefit and yet will end up paying more to finance other people's home improvements. Nice one Gordon.

I think a lot of people will be in your shoes, and will suffer from higher energy prices thanks to the latest ill-thought initiative.

As I have said before, we should be cutting the tax on energy saving products to make them the attractive alternative for everybody. People have a genuine need for energy saving products, not only does it mean we are less dependent on energy, but it is very economical. People in same sized housing with same number of people in it can be saving up to 60% on their annual energy bill if they're careful and have installed energy saving products.

It just strikes me as absurd that we buy less efficient products because it is the cheaper option, when government could reduce tax as way of nudging people into the more efficient decision. We should have been doing this years ago when the the times were good.

jaysay · 12-09-2008, 17:16

Well it just started, had a phone call from some foreigner trying to flog me cavity wall insolation, funny how they hang up when you say you live in council property

Neil · 12-09-2008, 17:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb

It just strikes me as absurd that we buy less efficient products because it is the cheaper option, when government could reduce tax as way of nudging people into the more efficient decision. We should have been doing this years ago when the the times were good.

What a nice naive way at looking at things. That would never happen, they would increase the tax on less efficient products instead.

jambutty · 12-09-2008, 18:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaysay

I'm so thrilled by these new ideas, free loft insulation, I ain't got a loft, free cavity wall insulation, already got it, free double glazing, had it years, free draught proofing, already draught proofed, a well just better pay up and smile then

I haven’t got a loft either and my flat has been recently done up with double glazing and draught proof door. I’m not sure about the cavity wall bit. I can’t find any plug marks in the outside walls, so maybe it hasn’t been done.

But as someone pointed out on ITV’s Teletext Letters page 328, if you insulate a house too well you get a condensation problem (We all breathe out moist air) so you have to have vents to keep the air circulating or open a window for a while and the heat leaving. It sort of all defeats the object of the exercise.

This Gordon Brown initiative is just a huge con. Tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of home are already insulated so the occupants will get nothing. And those that will benefit they will have to find the full fee first before claiming back half. Unless I’ve read the deal all wrong.

The only real answer is for the government to buy 51% of the energy company shares and cap prices at the same inflation level that is used to determine pension increases.

All the rest is just a waste of taxpayer’s money.

Wynonie Harris · 12-09-2008, 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

The only real answer is for the government to buy 51% of the energy company shares and cap prices at the same inflation level that is used to determine pension increases.

Sounds like a good idea to me, but unfortunately, the government have other financial priorities like foreign wars, a nuclear deterrent (that's controlled by the Yanks) and, of course, the all-singing, all-dancing Olympics! One thing's for sure...the latest "initiative" is just another headline-grabbing gimmick by an increasingly desperate government, headed by a total incompetent.

Mancie · 12-09-2008, 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by jambutty

The only real answer is for the government to buy 51% of the energy company shares and cap prices at the same inflation level that is used to determine pension increases.

All the rest is just a waste of taxpayer’s money.

Ah..so a Labour Government should spend £billions of the taxpayer's money to buy back shares that were already owned by the taxpayer, but sold off cheap by the last Tory Government?...

(just making a point)...but I do agree with you.