How are the mighty fallen

[DaveinGermany]

Originally Posted by Eric

Just how many Nimitz Class carriers do you need.

Doesn't have to be Nimitz, but at least one operational one would be nice, seems we're a bit short in the carrier department at present. How dumb does it get ? An Island nation, who likes to give it large on the World stage & we've got squatt to back it up with, pitiful.

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

The same thing you always say when the question of UKIP comes up. The fact is, whether you agree with them or not, UKIP have a full range of policies, one of which is this:

· Scrap the misconceived Human Rights Act. This will make Britain safer by removing obstacles that prevent the deportation of dangerous Imams, terror suspects and criminals to countries where they are wanted for trial. This policy is in line with the UK’s current prisoner exchange and extradition treaties. UKIP will also halt European moves to give prisoners the vote

Quite a contrast to your gutless, ineffectual lot, isn't it?

The problem in this country, Jay, is, I'm sad to say, people like YOU. The one who take the "I've voted Tory/Labour all my life and I'm not changing now" attitude. Obviously, UKIP are not going to get into power, but if more voters thought "out of the box" and there was a huge protest vote, it would hit the big parties right where it hurt - in the ballot box - and it just might concentrate their minds on giving us what WE want for a change!

I didn't vote Tory at the last election

[cashman]

Originally Posted by jaysay

I didn't vote Tory at the last election

Nah but yeh have all yer life n if yeh voted last time,it woulda been. cos yeh know nowt else.

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by jaysay

I didn't vote Tory at the last election

I'm well aware of that, Jay, but only because your mate wasn't chosen as the candidate. The point I'm making (and Cashy is, too) is that you and others like you, both Tory and Labour, ought to consider breaking the habits of a lifetime and voting for UKIP, if they field a candidate at the next election. Obviously, they won't garner enough votes to get in power, but an unprecedentedly large protest vote would hopefully put the wind up whoever does get into power and prompt then to act with a bit more backbone.

Because, let's be honest about this, at the moment the party you've supported all your life is acting in a most weak and servile fashion over issues like the ECHR, foreign aid and well you know it!

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

I'm well aware of that, Jay, but only because your mate wasn't chosen as the candidate. The point I'm making (and Cashy is, too) is that you and others like you, both Tory and Labour, ought to consider breaking the habits of a lifetime and voting for UKIP, if they field a candidate at the next election. Obviously, they won't garner enough votes to get in power, but an unprecedentedly large protest vote would hopefully put the wind up whoever does get into power and prompt then to act with a bit more backbone.

Because, let's be honest about this, at the moment the party you've supported all your life is acting in a most weak and servile fashion over issues like the ECHR, foreign aid and well you know it!

Nothing to do with my mate, it was the fact the CCO forced a candidates list on the constituency, the first time that had ever happened in all my days in politics, because of one woman's personal vendetta, the same woman who was removed from the CNWAO six weeks after the election

[Wynonie Harris]

Originally Posted by jaysay

Nothing to do with my mate, it was the fact the CCO forced a candidates list on the constituency, the first time that had ever happened in all my days in politics, because of one woman's personal vendetta, the same woman who was removed from the CNWAO six weeks after the election

Exactly! It was just local in-party squabbles that stopped you from voting Tory, not the fact that they ignore the electorate's wishes on the EU, the ECHR, foreign aid and a whole lot more. If they had fielded a candidate that you'd approved of, you'd have voted for them just like you had since Adam was a lad.

All I'm saying is that diehards like you and C'mon should consider voting tactically to give the big boys a real shock and hopefully get them to buck their ideas up!

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Exactly! It was just local in-party squabbles that stopped you from voting Tory, not the fact that they ignore the electorate's wishes on the EU, the ECHR, foreign aid and a whole lot more. If they had fielded a candidate that you'd approved of, you'd have voted for them just like you had since Adam was a lad.

All I'm saying is that diehards like you and C'mon should consider voting tactically to give the big boys a real shock and hopefully get them to buck their ideas up!

The point is jaysay has missed it. Like C'mon n others incapable of seeing it. Funny, deriding people that are exactly the same,no difference at all!! I despair.

[Margaret Pilkington]

You and me both Cashy! You and me both(sighs and shakes head).

[accyman]

Originally Posted by yerself

So where's Cameron getting the money for all this foreign aid he's dishing out to countries that either don't want it or don't need it?

hes borrowing it from China like teh rest of the world is.Eventually we will have to either hand over the world to china or go to war with them so as to wipe out the debt lol

[Eric]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

Doesn't have to be Nimitz, but at least one operational one would be nice, seems we're a bit short in the carrier department at present. How dumb does it get ? An Island nation, who likes to give it large on the World stage & we've got squatt to back it up with, pitiful.

And also ironic, given that the aircraft carrier, the steam catapult, and the angled flight deck were all ideas and inventions which came from Britain Perhaps the present British government has concluded that most, if not all, international problems can be solved by diplomacy and by the concerted actions of the United Nations and NATO. They actually might have a point (although I'm not really holding my breath on this one just yet). What is obvious is that all military adventures since WW ll have ended, if not in total failure, at least in a disappointing conclusion. The Americans still believe that the application of overwhelming military force will guarantee victory. They believe this in spite of the evidence to the contrary. Of course, they did hand out a convincing defeat to Grenada

[Acrylic-bob]

It is the hatred and resentment that is left in the wake of US foreign policy blunders that worries me.

[Wynonie Harris]

...not to mention the fact that we've dutifully trotted behind Uncle Sam into a lot of those foreign policy blunders. The odious Blair creature has a lot to answer for.

[MargaretR]

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob

It is the hatred and resentment that is left in the wake of US foreign policy blunders that worries me.

One way of looking at that policy is that the stirring of hatred was deliberate.
If they hadn't done that there maybe wouldn't have been the need for 'War on Terror' - invasion - and all that lovely oil.

[Eric]

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob

It is the hatred and resentment that is left in the wake of US foreign policy blunders that worries me.

Within living memory, the US was a peaceful, isolationist state that had no wish to get involved in any foreign adventures. They had a military establishment less powerful than that of the Netherlands. Their President was bound by acts of Congress and by his own promises and convictions not to get involved in foreign wars. They were dragged kicking and screaming into WW ll by the Japs. Even then, there is some doubt that they would have entered the war against Germany ... beyond what they were doing with lend-lease and helping out semi-officially with the war against the U-Boats. That idiot Hitler declared war on them ... and the rest, as they say, is history. They had little alternative other than to fill the power vacuum left by the collapse of Britain, France, and Germany. Sure they are clumsy and arrogant; but they don't have the tradition of the subtlety of diplomacy that the Brits have.

There; I've said something almost nice about our noisy neighbours

[jaysay]

Originally Posted by Wynonie Harris

Exactly! It was just local in-party squabbles that stopped you from voting Tory, not the fact that they ignore the electorate's wishes on the EU, the ECHR, foreign aid and a whole lot more. If they had fielded a candidate that you'd approved of, you'd have voted for them just like you had since Adam was a lad.

All I'm saying is that diehards like you and C'mon should consider voting tactically to give the big boys a real shock and hopefully get them to buck their ideas up!

I would just abstain altogether Wyn, I couldn't vote for a party like UKIP because of their flake of a leader