The Escaping of Yet More Worms From Cans

[chav1]

Originally Posted by garinda

You argue that you only appreciated school when you started to work. l find that sad, as you are obviously an intellegent person, therefore you're admitting 'the system' let you down.
Outside of your own experience, there are lots of young people who do think education is 'cool', because further education numbers have never been higher.

the system didnt let me down though

i went to school

i paid attention in class

i learned

i passed my exams

i got a job

currently due to an illness i am unable to do my current job anymore but although i dont see learning as cool i am still joining up a computer course so that i can get a piece of paper saying i am as good as what i am at pc repair so that i can continue to earn a wage and not rely on benefits

some school kids today see the dole as an occupation and you dont need to pass exams to be on the dole as they even have people at the dole centre to fill out forms for those too lazy to learn how to read and write

[park381]

Everyone has different natural abilities

That is a good starting point, some develop later than others, has always been the case, but I think the present situation can be summed up by

1. Lack of parental interest, would you let your son/daughter roam the streets at mid-night, at 13/14 years of age.
2. The latest rules and regulations on child abuse, when a small child comes home from school, and says "if you smack me I'll report you" to his/her own parents or grandparents, I think its time to close that book.
3. The lack of experienced teachers, due to retirement, or the lack of "budget" within the school to employ other than low grade teachers (by that I mean teachers on low salary grades, new, fresh out of college etc)

Having had the mis-fortune to have been involved with most of the local schools during my working life, and having seen the damage caused by the "children", and the lack of control teachers and staff have, I shudder to think just what the next generation is going to be like.


The problem I feel lies firmly at the feet of the parents, they should control their off-springs, there are 24hours in a day, school time is only a small %age of that time.

Yes during the 50's there was a lot more discipline, both in the schools and in the home.
Sorry if I have offended anyone with those comments

[Margaret Pilkington]

I'll drink to that one Park!

[-pixie]

Originally Posted by garinda

School education isn't just about passing exams. lf parents aren't doing it, sadly how to use cutelry is a vital thing to learn.
That children still leave school still unable to read is a tradgedy. Not all 'potential' will come out regardless of where and how you were educated.

School is there to act as a complement to family life, not to compensate for the lack of it.
Too many parents wash their hands of their offspring once they go through the school gates and do nothing to encourage them or help in their learning at home. As park381 pointed out school accounts for a small percentage of the childs life, the parents have a much bigger part.
Maybe if they weren't being taught how to use a knife and fork, they could have used the time learning to read...

[garinda]

Yes, but as also has been pointed out, a lot of children aren't getting good parenting. Just because a child has the misfortune to be born to a no hope ned, school could and should be there to guide as well as to educate in the 3R's.

[park381]

Originally Posted by garinda

Outside of your own experience, there are lots of young people who do think education is 'cool', because further education numbers have never been higher.

Why, cause its better than earning a living grafting, or serving an apprenticeship in a craft.
What courses are they taking in this further education, media studies etc. still when they have finished with their further education, they can go on to uni, spend another few years before they even look for work.
And yes I to went on to further education, at night after a days work.

[-pixie]

Originally Posted by garinda

Yes, but as also been pointed out, a lot of children aren't getting good parenting. Just because a child has the misfortune to be born to a no hope ned, school could be there to guide as well as educate in the 3R's.

If children are not getting good parenting, that is not the schools fault. I think a heck of a lot is heaped on our teachers as it is . My sister in law is a primary school teacher and she leaves the house at 8am. She gets back at 6pm, and is generally marking papers, reports etc until 9pm. Being kicked, sworn at, spat at is all in a regular day for her. Its disgusting. And the parents do not want to know. She can only do so much in 6 hours a day.
Teachers have a family life as well - they don't need to be bringing up other peoples children as well. Thats what being a parent is all about.

[garinda]

l agree there are some great teachers. On a personal level, I went to both a state and a private secondary school. Sadly there was no comparisson. The teachers were better at the latter. This is unfair.
Strange how we were all banging on about abuse last week. There are children not getting the help they need to function as future useful members of society, because someone, be it parents or school ,is writing them off as 'thick' and not worth educating.

[grannyclaret]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

I was educated in the 50's and 60s and at the time the discipline in the schools was palpable......discipline in the home was also practised. If I went home and told my parents that I had been given the cane or reprimanded in any way I would have got another hiding for needing discipline at school. If you were ever sent to the head teacher, you trembled in your shoes......and whatever the teacher said, you did.
I am sure this influenced the learning that went on.......we respected the teachers,
who in turn taught us to respect ourselves. Discipline, self worth and respect are lacking for many children.

absolutely spot on it was the forty,s and fiftys for me ,,there was 40 plus pupils in our class but we all learned because we listened and observed,and the respect for our elders was parramount ..they blame large classes for a lot of things today but you couldent get much larger ones than them,,

[fireman]

I think a lot of these black kids don't have anyone to look up too.They see one getting away without an education and living on a much too generous welfare state and decide they can do the same without the effort of study and examinations. What chance do they have with no examples to live up too.

[WillowTheWhisp]

But there are excellent black male role models out there.

[fireman]

I agree but they seem to be in the minority and lets look at the problem locally and think about it that way.

[WillowTheWhisp]

OK but the only black boys I know do, and have done, very well at school. I can't think of an example of a failing one. I can think of several very lazy white kids with "attitude" though.

[-pixie]

Originally Posted by fireman

I agree but they seem to be in the minority and lets look at the problem locally and think about it that way.

I don't think its the problem that there are no role models as such. Surely your first and foremost role models should be your parents, not some celebrity?
Parents need to be made to take more responsibilty for their offspring and their actions. If a parent doesn't think education is "cool", then chances are their kids are going to share that view, and not all the black/white/yellow/sky blue pink celeb role models are going to change that.

[fireman]

but when you started this thread you stated that under achieving black boys was a "very valid concern" aand i agree. most kids theese days have "attitude" rergardless of colour but segregating black boys i don't think is the answer to under achievers. I don't think the 5% of white kids at hyndburn park will be taken into a class of their own and more teaching effort poured upon yhem because they are not "achieving".