zimbabwi

[cashman]

Originally Posted by Royboy39

That has got to be a contadiction in terms.
Your leaders choice.....not mine.

rubbish, every leader in my lifetime allocates money to world causes, whatever situation is occuring at home, i'm saying this simply, when summats sadly lacking at home, THAT to me should have priority over owt else.

[cashman]

Mugabe should have been topped years ago, but thats another issue. today the Archbishop of York is calling fer him to be overthrown, did he do that when the despot was slaughtering people?

[steeljack]

It's a little bit paternalistic don't you think when you say someone should do something about it , hope you are not suggesting that Africans are incapable of running their own affairs and need the white-man to give them guidence and direction .
The British put him in power , Thatcher danced a waltz with him at Commonwealth Prime Ministers conference celebrations , and folks still say Ian Smith was a bad guy ,
Surprising how quiet ex Labour Minister Peter Hain as been in all this, since he one of the main architects of this debacle.

sorry , this was intended as an answer to Robroys post

[Royboy39]

Originally Posted by steeljack

It's a little bit paternalistic don't you think when you say someone should do something about it , hope you are not suggesting that Africans are incapable of running their own affairs and need the white-man to give them guidence and direction .
The British put him in power , Thatcher danced a waltz with him at Commonwealth Prime Ministers conference celebrations , and folks still say Ian Smith was a bad guy ,
Surprising how quiet ex Labour Minister Peter Hain as been in all this, since he one of the main architects of this debacle.

sorry , this was intended as an answer to Robroys post

OK Cast Iron Johnny....The British did give him power and handed over a country to him that was one of the most well run country on the African continent....He and his cronies have destroyed that country.
The white farmers who knew how to cultivate the land were deposed and the land was taken over by undereducated peasants put there by Magabi and now he kills them if they dont vote to keep him in power.
If Britain was not over commited due to the lack of understanding and scripted lies from the outgoing President of your country maybe we could do something about this maniac

[steeljack]

Originally Posted by Royboy39

OK Cast Iron Johnny....The British did give him power and handed over a country to him that was one of the most well run country on the African continent....He and his cronies have destroyed that country.
The white farmers who knew how to cultivate the land were deposed and the land was taken over by undereducated peasants put there by Magabi and now he kills them if they dont vote to keep him in power.
If Britain was not over commited due to the lack of understanding and scripted lies from the outgoing President of your country maybe we could do something about this maniac

And just which African President from the countries surrounding Zimbabwe do you think would allow troops from a previous colonial regime into their country for such a move ? (Political suicide)
Lets be honest about things, Britain, Europe on the whole and the West don't give two hoots for Africa , the only places which seem to be making a bit of success out of things are the former French colonies in west africa who have kept strong links with the Quai d'Orsay (French Foreign Ministry), with none of the Nigerian corruption bull.
I think the last sentance of your post to tangentally put the blame for Zimbabwes problems on George Bush is ludicrous , the guy may not be the sharpest knife in the box , but no way can he carry the can for this , as I have said previously , any blame for Mugabe rests fairly and squarley in Whitehall and the elected British leaders, no doubt the current crop will have more excuses than Nuremberg about how they inherited the problems from previous Govts. but it's still their problem , no running away from it.

[Royboy39]

Originally Posted by steeljack

And just which African President from the countries surrounding Zimbabwe do you think would allow troops from a previous colonial regime into their country for such a move ? (Political suicide)
Lets be honest about things, Britain, Europe on the whole and the West don't give two hoots for Africa , the only places which seem to be making a bit of success out of things are the former French colonies in west africa who have kept strong links with the Quai d'Orsay (French Foreign Ministry), with none of the Nigerian corruption bull.
I think the last sentance of your post to tangentally put the blame for Zimbabwes problems on George Bush is ludicrous , the guy may not be the sharpest knife in the box , but no way can he carry the can for this , as I have said previously , any blame for Mugabe rests fairly and squarley in Whitehall and the elected British leaders, no doubt the current crop will have more excuses than Nuremberg about how they inherited the problems from previous Govts. but it's still their problem , no running away from it.

The blame for Iraq and Afghanistan lies with GWB....If you read the post I said Britain was commited in other regions down to GWB not that GWB was to blame for the problems in Zimbabwi.
I have been round long enough to know the problems in other countries...I have been to most of them.

[Royboy39]

Originally Posted by steeljack

And just which African President from the countries surrounding Zimbabwe do you think would allow troops from a previous colonial regime into their country for such a move ? (Political suicide)
Lets be honest about things, Britain, Europe on the whole and the West don't give two hoots for Africa , the only places which seem to be making a bit of success out of things are the former French colonies in west africa who have kept strong links with the Quai d'Orsay (French Foreign Ministry), with none of the Nigerian corruption bull.
I think the last sentance of your post to tangentally put the blame for Zimbabwes problems on George Bush is ludicrous , the guy may not be the sharpest knife in the box , but no way can he carry the can for this , as I have said previously , any blame for Mugabe rests fairly and squarley in Whitehall and the elected British leaders, no doubt the current crop will have more excuses than Nuremberg about how they inherited the problems from previous Govts. but it's still their problem , no running away from it.

OK smart arse.....and thanks for the red.....do you think that this tyrant should be brought to book for his crimes or sit on the fence and have a pot shot at the British attitude....some of us do care.
Read what you like into my post's.
This clown should be deposed and I don't care who does it or how.

[bondi38]

There is no poor pensioners inthis country they seem to have plenty money to go to bingo both my husband and myself are pensioners and have never been beter off in our lives so there all of you bingo goers every day.

[Royboy39]

Originally Posted by bondi38

There is no poor pensioners inthis country they seem to have plenty money to go to bingo both my husband and myself are pensioners and have never been beter off in our lives so there all of you bingo goers every day.

I think that may be in the wrong thread Marian?

[steeljack]

Originally Posted by Royboy39

OK smart arse.....and thanks for the red.....do you think that this tyrant should be brought to book for his crimes or sit on the fence and have a pot shot at the British attitude....some of us do care.
Read what you like into my post's.
This clown should be deposed and I don't care who does it or how.

ok , point one .......just because you dont like my opinions is no need to throw your dummy out of the pram and call people names
point two .....whats with "thanks for the red" not sure how you can check , but I'm sure one of the moderators can , I have never sent bad karma to anyone , good karma , yes I send it when I think a reply or comment is worth it .
point three, I agree Mugabe is a open putrid pustule and should be removed , and should have been removed long ago , either by his own people (preferably) or by agents of HMs Govt, seems the British Govt. had no problems sending agents to Spain/Gibralter a few years back to deal with IRA suspects or had no problem with turning a blind eye whilst Saddam Hussien was swinging at the end of a rope (Seem to remember it was Tony Blair who confirmed the existance of WMD to justify the joint invasion of Iraq.

[Royboy39]

Originally Posted by steeljack

ok , point one .......just because you dont like my opinions is no need to throw your dummy out of the pram and call people names
point two .....whats with "thanks for the red" not sure how you can check , but I'm sure one of the moderators can , I have never sent bad karma to anyone , good karma , yes I send it when I think a reply or comment is worth it .
point three, I agree Mugabe is a open putrid pustule and should be removed , and should have been removed long ago , either by his own people (preferably) or by agents of HMs Govt, seems the British Govt. had no problems sending agents to Spain/Gibralter a few years back to deal with IRA suspects or had no problem with turning a blind eye whilst Saddam Hussien was swinging at the end of a rope (Seem to remember it was Tony Blair who confirmed the existance of WMD to justify the joint invasion of Iraq.

If you did'nt send the red them I apologize.

Tony Blair did in fact confirm the existance of WMD. (Bad mistake)
Saddam swinging at the end of a rope....Good.
Topping the IRA in Gibralter. They deserved it and got their just rewards.
I agree that Magabi should be removed by his own people but they have not got the power or resources to do it.

[Eric]

I tend to agree that Mugabe should be removed; but I don't think that this is the job of the Western Democracies (or fake democracies if you prefer). The people of Zimbabwe should solve their own problems, as should the folks in Afghanistan. I agree with any argument that assigns blame for many of Africa's woes to "colonialism"; I don't agree with using that argument to justify going in with guns blazing, in order to right past wrongs. It might solve some problems, but it will create a hell of a lot of new ones. Look at Iraq. Sure, Saddam swung from the end of a rope; but I don't think anyone can argue that Iraq is better off than it was before GW got a hard on for plalying Commander in Chief. From what I read and hear, I think you guys across the pond have enough problems of your own without worrying about African politics ...

[Royboy39]

Originally Posted by Eric

I tend to agree that Mugabe should be removed; but I don't think that this is the job of the Western Democracies (or fake democracies if you prefer). The people of Zimbabwe should solve their own problems, as should the folks in Afghanistan. I agree with any argument that assigns blame for many of Africa's woes to "colonialism"; I don't agree with using that argument to justify going in with guns blazing, in order to right past wrongs. It might solve some problems, but it will create a hell of a lot of new ones. Look at Iraq. Sure, Saddam swung from the end of a rope; but I don't think anyone can argue that Iraq is better off than it was before GW got a hard on for plalying Commander in Chief. From what I read and hear, I think you guys across the pond have enough problems of your own without worrying about African politics ...

The UK still pump money into Africa...I would be inclined to say get stuffed....But do we want to say I'm all right Jack'
Colonianlism..............Bull shine.

If Magabi stay's Nothing. I agree with the sanctions.
If Magabi goes....Help Rhodesia to progress.

[Eric]

I'm not an overly callous person; I'm not insensitive to the human suffering in Zimbabwe and in many other parts of Africa; but, if a workable (hate that word) solution is to be found it has to come from within Zimbabwe ... any form of military intervention to remove Mugabe will not work in the long run ... it will be just like Iraq: win the war and lose the peace.

Just as an aside, an aquaintance of mine, who is a very high profile member of the Canadian Parliament, told me that when GW asked Canada to join the screw up in Iraq, then PM Jean Chretien's very unofficial response was "F... him, does he think I'm as stupid as Blair"

[Eric]

Heard on the news yesterday that Mugabe declared that there is no cholera epidemic in Zimbabwe Maybe the western leaders should stand up and declare that there is no recession and then all the economic problems would just fade away.