Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

I'm pretty sure most of you have heard about this awful arson attack at a Manchester dogs home.
Manchester Dogs' Home: Simon Cowell 'pledges £25,000' - BBC News

I thought cowell was a cold obnoxious,heartless ass till I read about him donating £25.000 (I believe the total raised is now well over 1milliion).

It seems a 15yr old boy was questioned regarding the fire but has been released on police bail.
15-year-old released on bail after being quizzed by police over arson attack on Manchester Dogs' Home - Manchester Evening News


It goes without saying that,I hope the idiot that started it is caught and severely punished, a good birching wouldn't go a miss, though I won't hold my breath.

'I hear' local residents spoke of hearing the dogs crying/yelping as the fire took hold (it must of been awful for them poor hounds being trapped and burned alive, as if they hadn't already had a rough time :(

Local tradesmen have generously volunteered to help rebuild the home alongside donating dog food etc, it seems their not even doing it for the publicity (as they aren't mentioning their business names(yet).
Them folk of Manchester should be proud for there quick response and actions (especially them two fellas that tackled the fire saving more dogs that could of lost their life's).


I'll finish by saying that if someone sets fire to a building whatever the excuse and kill animals,risk lives of firefighters etc (in my eyes) they are a danger to society. I hope that justice is done and the person or persons responsible feel the full force of the law.

re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

I heartily agree with you. The person responsible should be severely punished and in my opinion should be banned from keeping any sort of pet for life.

re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

In some cases (like this) it's sad that the state took over the responsibility of administering justice from the public crowds of years gone by.
In recent years we've seen the abandonment of common sense, with daft judges and the like allowing these criminals to get off with a smacked on the wrist.:(

To be honest some folk (like the reprobate that started this fire) are beyond the ministrations of a bunch of the law and idealistic social workers or probation officers. 'Some folk are just plain evil', and there are times, such as this maybe, when a spell of mob rule would allow justice to be done, seen to be done, and understood by even the evilest of reprobates.

re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

It isn't justice when you appoint yourself judge and jury without listening to any evidence.
In this country you are innocent until proved guilty. So going back to the days of the posse would be a very backwards step.

re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

As usual Margaret a sane voice answering the rantings of our very own sensationalist.
Of course what was done was a terrible act, however feeble attempts to incite some form of mob rule put neither the poster nor this site in a good light out there in the world.
I for one will be reporting the post, I hope such dramatic tosh will always be below the standards of this site and that it will be removed.

re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

While I agree it was a despicable act....and put lives at risk, I would not advocate mob rule.
The law is the law.....and an accused person is innocent until judged by a jury do his peers, after due process.
We may not like the way some of the judiciary interpret the law, but it isn't the law which is flawed. It is the interpretation of it.

re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Just your usual hocus pocus today then Less?
And you call me a "creep" :rolleyes:
Your a little delusional to say the least about the standards of this site....get a grip :D

I may of let my emotions run away a little with my ranting M but, I hardly think the folk that read this forum are the type to listen to my "prattlings" and form a group with the intent on finding and harming this evil person.

I also admire your confidence in our justice system although I think it's a little misplaced.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Don`t think you did yourself any favours with the thread title Accyex. I think having the word "Wuff" in there seemed like you were making light of what happened and has rightly in my opinion been changed now.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Now Jason.....where did I say I had confidence in the justice system?
In fact I mentioned the fact that the justice system is in some ways failed by the interpretation of the law by some of the judiciary.
This does not make the law wrong...just those who interpret it thus.

Do you really thing mob rule would be better........where those with the loudest voice and the biggest stick got the best say?
Would you have a 'shoot now, ask questions later' system?
That would be fine as long as it wasn't one of your children/siblings involved.

We do not know all of the facts in this case...only what the media tells us...and we know that they are not averse to portraying a story in the light which will sell most papers.

It is best to hold your whisht until there is more evidence available.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

You should be thankful we don't have mob rule!

If we had you'd probably have been lynched by now. :D

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Well declaring my pathological hatred of dogs in the first instance, I am not losing any sleep on the loss of 40 or 50 unbalanced and unstable dogs.

I’ll wager they were in the main status dogs* and animals that were too much for their owners to handle. That’s why they were in the home in the first place.

Granted no creature should suffer a deliberate painful death but there are far worse tragedies going on in the world.
The poor person burned to death in a skip in Manchester last night to name but one.

* Judging by the newsreel footage of the err,erm? fine upstanding citizens, motivated by social media to rush to offer assistance at the scene.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Of course there are worse things happening in the world....the beheading of a British aid worker falls into this category.......and whatever the background of the dogs,(as you rightly observed) they did not deserve to die in such circumstances.
Your scathing appraisal of those who went to help out is uncalled for and unjust.

Some people are animal lovers and some of the dogs who had been put into the home may have been there because of a change in circumstances of the owners.
Those owners who are uncaring/irresponsible just abandon their animals....they do not usually bother to take them to a rehoming centre.

There were a wide variety of dogs who were in the home. Do you call Bichon Frise 'status' dogs?

The bit of the story which is enlightening is that people...locals, cared enough to give of their time, their money and food for these helpless animals.......basic humanity. Kindness...call it what you will.

Children learn kindness by caring for pets.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Had to google Bichon Frise Margaret never heard of one.

Notorious housebreaking difficulties
"Separation anxiety" (destructiveness and barking) when left alone too much.
Frequent clipping of the curly coat
Potential for excessive barking.

Why on this sceptered isle would one give em house room?
No wonder it(they) was in a home.

Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Is that what makes a dog unbalanced/unstable, because some prat takes on a dog without researching the breed first.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Well, they are gentle dogs. All dogs need upkeep and maintenance.....most dogs need a modicum of training too.
It is very easy to see that you are not a friend of dogs. Most dogs give out far more than is expended on them. They give unconditional love. They do not care what you look like, they do not care about your social status. They (unlike humans) do not judge and make sweeping generalisations based on flawed ideals.

There are some dogs that I like far more than some humans.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Yes, I think that in many cases that is why dogs end up needing to be rehomed.
People look at cute little puppies without taking the time to find out what the needs of the animal might be.
I have homed rescue dogs and rescue cats. I have been prepared tp spend my time giving them the care they needed......grooming and training them...but then I love animals.....and had I had the wherewithal to help Manchester Dogs Home I would have done. As it is I have made a small donation whilst out shopping this morning.

There aren't bad dogs....there are only bad and irresponsible owners.....those are the ones who don't research and care for the animals properly.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

This is satire, right:confused: I always had you pegged for the string 'em up, fry 'em, throw away the key type ... and back to the medieval basics in HM Prisons.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

I think we have to expand on that Margaret, iresponsible breeders and aye bad kennel owners and dogs home staffers.

Lexi Branson inquest: Family call for new dog re-homing laws after tragic death of little girl - Mirror Online

extract "The family of tragic Lexi Branson last night called for new laws surrounding the re-homing of dogs following an inquest into her horrific death.
Tragic Lexi, four, was killed by a crazed Aylestone Bulldog just weeks after her mother Jodi Hudson bought it for £50 from a local kennels.
An inquest into her death was told staff knew the dog was not suitable to be housed with small children - yet still agreed to sell it.
They also failed to carry out a home visit despite knowing Jodi, 31, lived with Lexi in a two-bedroom flat with no secure back garden.
Senior coroner Trevor Kirkman was told kennel staff had no external training because incredibly there are no current laws in relation to re-homing dogs."

There are bad dogs, how they became bad is another matter.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Are yeh stoned again mate? Thats me not Margaret.:D

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Of course I'm stoned ... I'm celebrating ... can't quite remember what the occasion is, but it might be something important.

Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

There's a "y" in today's day?

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

If, after the due process of law, someone is found guilty.....then I think that prison should offer a deterrent.....not some cushy environment where those involved in crime can further their education.

This doesn't constitute mob rule, or for that matter back to medieval basics.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

No..... Dogs are not bad. What you have highlighted are the failings of humans.
And that s an entirely different matter.
You have already said that you have a pathological dislike of dogs so of course you are going to trawl the internet and find scenarios which will fit your agenda.

Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Show me a bad dog, and I'll show you a worse human being.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

After reading the comments (and having a herbal ciggie) I'd like to say thanks for putting things into perspective for me :D

Perhaps I was a little keen in advocating the "mob rule" :o

Manchester Dogs' Home arson suspect urged to quit home by police | Mail Online

Allegedly, the 15-year-old bailed on suspicion of causing the blaze that killed these poor dogs was attacked by a dangerously out-of-control dog earlier this year.

Hmmm, So if I get attacked by some violent thuggish chav, does that give me license to burn down HMP Preston in revenge?

The teenager’s family were said to be living in fear after being subjected to death threats.

He shouldn't be subjected to death threats, he should get a lengthy prison sentence for the murder of 50+ lives.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Holy feces ... betcha that only happens once in a blue moon;)

But I'm trying not to think of those dogs, nor of all the other abused animals in the world ... particularly their eyes ... that's why I can't watch those ads put out by the Ontario Humane Societies. Some religiously inclined tangential acquaintance of mine once asked me if I thought animals had souls ... My answer: "No. Because they don't need them." He asked me what I meant. He was that stoopid.:rolleyes:

I also try to avoid thinking of all the human suffering in the world, particularly by women and children ... There's just too much pain in their world, and so little in mine ... apart from lifestyle stuff. And again, it's in the eyes.

Man's inhumanity to man, (Robert Burns, I think) and to animals seems to know no bounds.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Yeah Rotherham has it's fair share of both gpick, I may have missed it but I don't think anything like one million pounds has been raised to alleviate the continuing sufferings of the 1400 abused across the Pennines.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

And how would throwing money at this problem help?
This is just a fudge.....a red herring.
Those who were abused by men of Asian origin were failed by human beings.
These were children who were disregarded by those in authority....the police, the social services, the judiciary, the imams and the community.

These children do not need money....no amount of money can take away the memories of that sexual abuse....of being treated like pieces of meat.
And it has absolutely no bearing on this discussion.

Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

If you feel that strongly about it D, you could always set up a similar kind of fund raiser for them yourself.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

It's refreshing to know that folk will give generously for dogs whilst our British elderly in care homes and children in orphanages suffer abuse and terrible care.
In Korea they're probably salivating at the thought of barbecued dog.
I don't see a million plus raised for say the 2,000+ men, women and children who were locked into a small piece of land and had bombs dropped on them (they had nowhere to go either).

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

The things you cite are totally unconnected......another diversionary tactic.
People give to the charities that mean the most to them...for whatever reasons.
There is a lot of 'charity fatigue' out there. This is because many charities are run like businesses with money skimmed off the donations to pay lucrative salaries to the CEO's.
When a local dogs home goes up in flames, local people WANT to do what they can to help...purely because they know the donation is going to a LOCAL CAUSE.

There are always going to be needy people in the world.....and every time there is a disaster somewhere the Brits pull out all the stops and raise money to help.
How much of the help actually gets to the people who need it is anybody's guess.

If you really want to campaign for better care for the elderly.....then go ahead and do it.....as for orphanages.....there won't be many of those in this country(children's homes.....yes....orphanages...I don't think so).
As for the 2000+women and children being bombed.....where was this?
Was it Syria, or perhaps the mountains where IS carried out an ethnic cleansing job.....well, if it was one of those places....there are Brits who have gone out to tender humanitarian aid. Only the other day one of them was murdered.....so much for humanity, so much for charity.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

British aid to Palestine £80,000,000 per year.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

If you feel there are better causes then there is nothing stopping you from setting this up. Someone, somewhere has felt this to be a good cause and has done something about it rather than whinging that someone else hasn`t done it.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Its just another feeble attempt to provoke a reaction.:rolleyes:

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

The point I was trying make is some folk care more about animals than humans (I know,it's hypocritical after my 'pigs used by soldiers' thread).
Where was all these generous dog lovers when these dogs needed a ruddy home and not a shelter?

Recently some folk I know managed to help save an old folks recreation centre that was faced with closure due to cuts in Local Government grants. As it stands, the centres future is probably only guaranteed for say a year, and I'm convinced that the main reason for private donations coming forward was to take it out the picture as an issue in the last lot of Local Council elections. Even if they'd locked the old folk in and set fire to the building I doubt they'd of achieved anything like enough in donations to make it financially sound.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Fair play, I guess that's good old Britain, a country which falls over itself to give millions of pounds in aid but balks at the idea of giving its own homeless,elderly and unemployed a few quid to live on :D

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Jason, I respect your views, but sometimes you talk a lot of twaddle.
There is a huge great difference between what happened in Manchester, and the case of the old folks recreation centre.
Talking of LCC cuts and reduction in services is something entirely different.

People expect to have these services from the money they pay in taxes.....and perhaps there would be fewer of these cuts if we did not send eighty million quid abroad to be squandered on anything other than the cause for which the money was given.

The donations given to the Manchester Dogs home were at a time of urgent need...a crisis.
I said in a previous post that the British are very good at giving their hard earned dosh in times of crisis....and this was the case here.....that and they can actually see where the money is going.
As for your comment about donations to fund an old folks recreation centre.....the old folk of this country are increasingly portrayed as a drain on the system....they are seen to have little social value....they are seen as non contributors.......the powers that be wish that we would all go away somewhere.....and without a fuss, shuffle of this mortal coil.

When you started this thread, it was put into Anything Goes.....which suggests to me that you saw it as being of little consequence.....you gave it a flippant title(ok, this has been changed now...probably as a result of how the comments were going).
Again all this suggests that you posted this, having some idea of the response it would provoke.
I really thought that the thread about soldiers and pigs had been something you had learned from.....a case of hope triumphing over experience.
I am disappointed.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Oh and another thing, putting a grinning green emoticon at the end of a sentence which is serious in its content, does nothing to further your cause or make you appear concerned about the elderly, the unemployed, the poor....it just makes you appear insensitive and crass.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

I admit, yes, I knew exactly what response this thread would get and also what road it would eventually take,Thus why I put it in anything goes (perhaps I could be a little more serious). I didn't think my ("flippant") title was so bad that it needed to be changed but saying that some of my past titles haven't exactly met the criteria for the site either.

Sorry your disappointed M, I'll except my knuckle wrapping an be quite now..... (till next time) ;)

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

I nearly forgot, what's folk views on naming and shaming this lad? (if he is found to be guilty).
It's already been done on another site and personally I'm not sure I agree with it....Hmmm.

I think rather than naming and shaming this lad (if guilty) he needs a comprehensive psychiatric assessment followed by lengthy sentence for the protection of the rest of society.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

I am not rapping your knuckles.
I am(like you) expressing an opinion.....trying to add something to the discussion.
Not the fudges and the red herrings that some have thrown in with the intention of diverting the discussion to other topics.....which could be threads in their own right.....and have no real relevance to the subject being discussed.....and some of which have been fully covered in other threads.

As for your question about naming and shaming. It appears that there is precious little shame in the youths that do questionable/criminal acts these days.....so, No would be my answer......and you have come quite a way since your first thoughts......wanting a thorough psychological/ psychiatric appraisal of this youth now.
He has to go through the due process of law, I'm sure that he will be subjected to such an appraisal prior to any conviction or sentencing.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Hey ... I care more about animals than I do about humans ... although I don't see how the one has to exclude the other.

And one should consider that the problems facing dogs are not those of their own creating. Whereas the problems facing humans are, in the main, manufactured by humans. Consider all the current outrage at the actions of ISIS ... and yet ISIS exists in the powerful form it does today primarily as a result of the Anglo-American rape of Iraq.

And those "generous dog lovers" are probably hanging out with those that condemn the atrocious working conditions in third world factories, yet are unwilling to give up the cheap clothing labeled "Made in Bangladesh."

And where were all those "human lovers" when European Jews needed a shelter and not a death camp? They were busy establishing quotas that condemned thousands to extermination.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Maybe we should home the elderly in prisons and the criminals in old folks care homes...ok not a new idea, but worth considering.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

"Quite a way" I've done a complete u turn,when I started the thread I was a little emotional as i myself am a dog owner.

Since reading the replies and getting things put into perspective (from folk on this site) along with reading comments (on other sites) from folk that want to do a array of unspeakable things to this lad (and his family) I feel kind of sorry for him and his family now (more than a bit shady/dodgy for piling in and advocating the mod rule on the condemnation of a 'child' who I really know nothing about). :hidewall:

Is he a psychopath? Hmmm, I highly doubt his intention was to kill all these dogs (I may be wrong).
More likely it's just some silly childish prank gone very wrong, committed by a young non thinking idiot who has probably ruined his and his families life's by committing this offence (the cells are likely to be the safest place for him after his details were published online).

A number of folk are also blaming his parents :eek:
If he is a psychopath (As I'm sure you know) Some 'psychopaths' are the way they are from birth, so he could be the way he is through no fault of his parents but yet they are the ones getting death threats.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Fair points E, it's comments like yours that help me put things into perspective ;)

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

It is really a pointless exercise to try to make assumptions and judgements over any of the aspects of this case.
As for social media sites promoting suppositions and rumours about him and his family.....well, this is why I dislike the social media scene so much.(I don't consider Accyweb to be social media)
What is not known is supposed, made up, embroidered.

All we can say for sure right now is that a number of animals died in terrible cruel circumstances and there has been a concerted effort by local people to rally round and help out.
Now, whether you think this is justified, good or bad will depend on your own personal experiences of life.

Anything else isn't worth a hill of beans.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

A hill of beans? I'm reminded of Humphrey Bogart.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

"it doesn't take much to see that the problems of three little people don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world".

Classic, they don't make them like that anymore, all sex,violence nowadays :D

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

That perhaps explains why there are so many dogs in homes.

Anyone can be a 'dog owner', how many of these 'dog owners' really do give their 'possessions' the proper care and attention that is required?
To reduce the number of dogs that end up in homes or being treated cruelly, it should be difficult to 'own' a dog.
I have had many dogs over the years, they all lived an active and long life, I would love to have the companionship of one now, however, circumstances change and I know that I wouldn't be able to give the standard of care and attention that would be required, but I could have a dog within just a few hours with no-one checking that I would be a responsible and caring 'owner'.

Bring in laws that make a 'dog owner' a difficult thing to become then perhaps less dogs will be treated badly.
Make sure that the dogs are going to be safe and secure and not just loved while they are in the cutesy puppy stage then perhaps there will be less human tragedies caused by dogs that turn on people. Give out a licence that has to be earned by proving an understanding of the care and needs of these animals, not a dog licence, a 'dog owners' licence that can be revoked at the first sign of mistreatment, cruelty or neglect.

'Mans best friend' is what a dog is known as, good grief, if ever anyone has proved how misplaced that friendship is, it's man's inhumanity to an animal that can show both loyalty and affection to a beast that doesn't deserve it.

By the way Accyexplorer, before you go into rant mode I only quoted you as an example of the term 'dog owner', I am absolutely NOT implying that you are a bad 'dog owner'.

:gooddog:

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Point made gpick.
Thinking about that, if all the scrotes that hotfooted it to Harpurhey for their 15 minutes of fame at the dogs home had done their iced water bucket challenge at the same time there would have been no need to call the Fire Brigade. The fire would have been out in no time thus saving all us taxpayers money.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

You always have to come up with some smart aleck answer don't you.
Did you actually know any of the people who went to help out? Those you accuse of seeking their fifteen minutes of fame...you decry their efforts and judge them from how they appear.
Appearances can be deceptive........and dogs really don't care what you look like....they don't judge.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

This may shock you but,I'm incline to agree Less :eek:

Re the licensing of dogs,yes, you should not be able to own one without a licence which certifies your competence to control it, and records the dog's microchip number – just like your driving licence and your vehicle registration document.

To obtain a licence folk should need to demonstrate the competence to train a dog to a minimum standard this would ensure that they understood the basics of communicating with and controlling their dog, which even many well-meaning 'dog-owners' do not appear to know.
In addition a need to demonstrate a knowledge of its welfare needs and of your legal responsibilities wouldn't go a miss either.

Personally, I got my dog (fully comprehending the care and attention needed) as I enjoy the process of bringing up a dog from a pup.
I'm sure your aware, The happiness and sense of satisfaction from raising a good,loyal dog from a pup is second to none and far outweighs the time and money spent on them.
The importance of pets is much more remarkable to some people who live alone, especially those old folk without children.
Under these circumstances, dogs are not only pets they are more likely to be companions to the bitter end (part of the family).

Finally,Why can't all your comments be of this standard when directed at me? :D

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Firstly, the post wasn't wholly directed at you, only the last bit. however they could be of similar vain in future, all you have to do is take the advice I have given you in the past on many occasions to heart.
Think before you post.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

I'd say,overall, you get the comments you deserve.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

The so called 'status' dogs you mention probably ended up in the shelter as a result of the terrible publicity they have received recently. They're not all the blood crazed maniacs that are portrayed. Our dog came from a rescue centre, he's a five stone bull terrier with a massive head and I think his appearance and his breed's reputation put many people off rehoming him, but he's the softest, happiest dog who loves people and other dogs. The poor animals in that shelter were trapped and wouldn't have known what was happening to them and would have been terrified. There may all be other 'worthy' causes around the world but I think animals are just as worthy as any human being, they are still living, feeling beings. Its fantastic that so much money was raised so quickly by so many kind people and the lads who managed to save some of the dogs deserve a medal in my opinion.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

I prefer the metaphor employed by a twentieth-century American Vice President ... it's, shall we say, "pithier":D

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Sounds like Israel to me.:rolleyes:

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer
men, women and children who were locked into a small piece of land and had bombs dropped on them


Or Dresden :rolleyes:

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

True indeed ... and the list goes on, and on, and on ...

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

And we never seem to heed the lessons that history gives us.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

"Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it."

Re: Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Well Eric, there I disagree, "Those who forget history will convince others to die for their mistakes" I suspect is more accurate.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

I don't see the accuracy ... but that just might be a result of the ambiguity.;)

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Is it ambiguity? Or is it a double barreled jobbie?



Those that Forget history but are stupid enough to convince their fellow man to die for a useless cause.

OR

Those that are naive enough to die believing that what the first idiot convinced them to do is a just cause?

One thing for certain, the guy that rattles the first Sabre never seems to make it to the front line.
:(

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

If it requires an explanation, it's ambiguous. Nice try tho':D

And for sure, few saber rattlers make it to the front line ... it's kinda dangerous up there. I can think of a couple: Captain Nolan ... Colonel de Grandmaison ... maybe even the last of the Brudenells, altho' he could have been just an inbred idiot.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

OK west endless your dog may be all sweetness and light, the exception that proves the rule maybe? So why do I see more and more people out walking their dogs carrying sticks these days? No not the fetch it Fido type of stick more the crook or cudgel type. It's just an observation but it does seem more and more the trend this last few years.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Perhaps they're frightened of meeting you and think the dog might need help! :rolleyes:

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

You must travel in different circles to me.
I frequently walk along the canal bank on my own with my camera. I see many many people with dogs...all manner of dogs and not once have I felt threatened or intimidated....either by the dogs or the people.
Maybe the dogs you meet up with can smell your pathological fear......and maybe this unnerves you.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Woof woof

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

That sounds about right to me, we walk round foxhill nature reserve most days, loads wi dogs, some on leads, some not, never even been barked at.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Off at a tangent there Margaret and not answering my question.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

What question D? I cant see one.:confused:

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

No, it isn't.....I told you that I meet many dog walkers. I have not seen any like you have described.....so why you see them is not within my scope of personal experience.

The dogs are frequently not on leads, but running free, but many owners leash their animals when approaching me....some walkers(mainly the older ones) have walking poles.....I myself have a walking pole which is actually a monopod.

I hope that this proves to be a suitable answer to what I presumed was a rhetorical question.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

He was asking why he sees dog walkers with sticks...not just ordinary sticks, but cudgels....the kind that you would use to defend yourself.
I cannot answer.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Perhaps there not "cudgels", maybe they are breaking sticks (aka parting sticks).

Usually, carried by owners of the bull terrier breeds.
I wonder what breed westendlass's dog is,"5 stone bull terrier".......sounds like one the banned breeds :eek:

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

I don't think it can be as she tells us it is a rescued dog.....but I am sure she will enlighten you in the sweet bye and bye.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Having checked back....he is a Bull terrier.

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Yes, hopefully she will enlighten me.
I'm only curious as Pitbull's grow upto 5 stone+ But you don't see many English bulls etc that grow so big.

Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

As Margaret has said, if it was a banned dog the shelter wouldn't have rehomed it. They would have arranged for it to be "put to sleep"

Re: Manchester Dogs Home Fire
 

Even if they thought it was a Staffordshire bull cross?
A easy mistake to make,especially in this status dog era.

It's kinda obvious to me but, can you pick the pit?

Pick the Pit - Can you find the Pitbull?

http://mprgroup.net/misc/findpit.html

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They`ll have better qualified people than me to decide, but yes I did.

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I have already told you...it is a Bull terrier.
See post 77.

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Post 55 is the one where Westendlass tells us the breed of her pet.

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It doesn't matter about the facts, you can show them to him all day long.
This drama queen has picked on an innocent post from a member, he thinks he's being clever, he doesn't realise it's him he's showing up no-one else.

He wants a better standard of reply? He'd better consider putting on a better standard of post.
:mad:

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Here you are MrC.. I see Margaret has pointed you in the same direction.

People see what they want to see Margaret.

Cudgel was the wrong choice of words Margaret. Stout sticks would have been better.
Now now dont please take this as a "volte face" more commonly known as an "Accyexplorer" on the Accyweb ;)

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Yes, it probably was.
On talking to a few friends who are dog owners.....many of them do not use sticks to throw for their dogs....having been advised by vets that sticks can pose some health issues.....they have specific 'fetch' items for their pets.
Some who do carry a stick, tell me that it is the retrieve balls dropped in nettles.....or such inaccessible places....They had not thought any passer by would be intimidated by the carrying of such an item....innocent uses.
I guess the fact that the dogs they walk range from whippets to spaniels and JRT's might also have a bearing.
That said,all dogs have the potential(without the appropriate training and care) to return to the mentality of a pack animal....and that must always be borne in mind....the vast majority of pet dogs are loving and loyal.

Oh, and I reckon I am pretty observant.....especially when out on my own on the canal bank. You have to be aware of risks to your own personal safety. Something which would pose a threat to my safety.....a big dog with an owner with a big stick would definitely attract my attention.
I think my past life has made me 'risk assess' almost everything I do.

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After googling it, it seems I've made a honest mistake M, I genuinely never heard them piggy dogs being called bull terriers (English bull terriers yes).

I thought bull terrier was a category of dogs which included pit 'bull terrier' Staffordshire 'bull terrier' etc. :o

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Back into the Richard cranium category you go Less :rolleyes:...and I thought we had made a little progress.

Also,for the record, I wasn't picking on anyone it was a genuine mistake :thefinger

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There you go again, you make an unpopular and stupid post then back pedal in a feeble attempt to try to worm your way out of that hole you keep digging.

Might I suggest that not just you, (though in your case it should be compulsory), but all of us print the following out and cover our keyboards with it?

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I have never seen them as intimidating Margaret.
And no I am not frightened of dogs.
If I met Widow Saverini and Semillante on the canal bank one dark night I might rethink that though.
Accyexplorer posits they are breaking sticks maybe?
Think I agree.

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Well if you did perchance meet this person and her dog Frisky......I am sure you would be able to hold your own.
The canal on a dark night is to be avoided. You might fall in and drown(or die of the poison).

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He's a Staffordshire bull terrier Accyx, I've even asked when he's been to the vets if they thought he may be a cross breed and two different vets assured me he's not. Apparently, they can be all different shapes and sizes and he just happens to be at the large end of the scale. When we got him I also relied on the fact that he'd been assessed in the rescue centre, I don't think they'd be in the habit of rehoming pit bulls to the general public!

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[QUOTE=DtheP47;1117321]OK west endless your dog may be all sweetness and light, the exception that proves the rule maybe? So why do I see more and more people out walking their dogs carrying sticks these days? No not the fetch it Fido type of stick more the crook or cudgel type. It's just an observation but it does seem more and more the trend this last few years.[/QUObreedwIts not the breed of dog that's the problem with attacks its the idiots who walk them without proper control. Our dog was attacked last year at the end of our path when my son was setting off on a walk and some bloke (in his sixties) thought it was OK to walk his Alsatian along off the lead. The dog launched itself at Arnold and put four puncture wounds under his neck. If he was an aggressive dog he could have taken its head off but, as I mentioned before, he's soft and came off worse. Our last dog was a little Border Lakeland and he too was attacked by a (different) Alsatian off the lead being walked by an older man. People are too quick to tar every Bull breed with the same brush but any breed can be aggressive and its the person in control of the dog who's to blame (and they're not always young thugs either)!

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Thanks for clearing this up for me, so he's not just a "bull terrier" (or English bull terrier) he's a 'Staffordshire' bull terrier ( a very large one).

I've never heard of a staff that's grown that big and personally I think the vets and rescue centre are wrong and he is a cross (probably the most common dog found in rescue centres after the "status dog" boom).

I don't see why rescue centres don't re home pit bulls,they are a good breed in my eyes.
I've a close friend with a pit bull terrier (not that he'd openly admit to it) and it's been to the vets numourous times....they say he's a black mouthed cur or staff cross (I can assure you they are wrong).

Anyway, regardless of breed he sounds like a lovely hound, thanks again :)

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I am sure they would be required to check and make sure he is a Staffordshire Bull terrier before they could re-home him...after all if it was found that he was a mix of one of the Pit Bull terriers and something happened they would be liable for not pointing this out to the family the animal was rehomed to.

There is a potential danger with all dogs...and especially those who are from the rescue centres as in many cases very little is known about their past and their background.

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I'm not trying to be clever M but how would/can they check and make sure?
I don't think there is any true way of telling without seeing its parents.
It could be 75% staff and 25% other, to look at it would be a staff but technically it's a cross.

If anything did happen it would be up to whoever makes the claim that's its (let's say) a pit bull cross to prove it was a pit bull cross and not for the rescue centre to prove it isn't.Since very little would be known about its past (ie it's parents) I don't think it'd be possible.

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Why do you think you know better than two vets and rescue centre staff who have actually seen this dog in the flesh, when all you have is a brief description and a small pic (Westendlasses avatar) to go off?

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I wasn't saying that you were trying to be clever, but it the job of vets to be able to determine these things.
Doggie DNA perhaps.
When the police want to know if a dog is on the list of banned dogs, what do they do?
They get the assistance and better knowledge of those who do know. Vets.
They are trained to know what to look for...and they have a responsibility to ensure they know what they are doing.

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Because I've had numourous dogs,Staffordshire bull terrier being one of them.Also I've done voluntary work at a dogs rescue centre and I've never heard of a pure staff weighing 5stone...it's only my opinion g (one that I'm entitled too) it may well be that I'm wrong,it wouldn't be the first time and I'm sure it won't be the last :D

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Why don't you just accept that there are more knowledgeable people than you instead of just assuming that your conclusions and half facts must carry some weight?