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Well they've been winding us for months so I guess you do reap what you sow!!
Winding-up "The process by which a company dies. Under Part IV of the Insolvency Act 1986, there are three separate procedures - a members voluntary winding up where a company is solvent, a creditors voluntary winding up for insolvent companies and a compulsory winding up by the court. Once the process starts the company is administered by a liquidator who disposes of all assets, and distributes the remainder to members or creditors. When the process is complete, the company is struck off the Companies Register and ceases to exist." |
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Stunned. Right, EW and D'ON get bloody talking to Ilyas now (if he still wants to be involved). :mad:
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Can the club not now make an alliance with its supporters and make an issue of shares available to raise capitol. It might only raise a few thousand, but its cash that can be utilised. The other issue is that of Mr Khan’s offer to the club, would this not make life and survivability an all lot easier Eric.
In respect of the fan base, it maybe small and time is defiantly hard but if you put trust in us and communicate openly then a lot could be achieved without having the fear of historical enactments of our darker past. We hear what you say, we want to help. |
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What does this mean???? Are we as a club going to cease? Are we going to be fined/lose points??? What has happend to all that stuff quoted stating we have "No Debt"..........:(
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They certainly had a hard time of it lately, it is a hard life in Accrington lately for running a business.
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I think we need to trust in what’s written in the clubs statement and believe that the current restructuring pays dividends, that along with the backing of the fan base, the local community, local business and the council could see us through. If the club fails to talk and trust in its fans and the community, then 62 could be overshadowed by current events, this in real terms is a **** pot amount of money, the answer has already been written by a local businessman that shares the clubs passion, now it in the hands of the club. But mark these words, if the club (meaning Eric and David) continues to sit on their pride rather than work with us, there is unlikely to be a place in the local community where they would hold any respect of the public.
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How can we be in this position when we have somebody offering us money ???????
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There have been rumours of this for a good while now, so it doesn't really surprise me, but it does worry and sadden me.
How serious is this then? Is the next step administration? That's a hell of a lot of debt and it's no wonder that any takeover has been delayed. |
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This type of news would - in my opinion - put off players thinking of coming and some of those thinking of signing...........
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At least the club is now being honest with us, although reading it made me sick to the stomach and like others I'm not sure what this means for our beloved club. Let's hope they continue with this openness and let us know what is actually happening behind the scenes so that we as fans can try & help in whatever way we can. Eric, please get on the blower to Ilyas and take the help he is willing to offer.
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Don't really understand these things, but surely winding-up proceedings are worse than admin?
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I am not sure of all the in's, out's and legalities of the statement,
But whatever it takes, if I can help in any way shape or form I will! Please ask!!! |
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Seriously, though, I have no idea what this means. Stanley have few assets to offset against the debt, so at the moment things look very bad. I wonder what action the Football League would take? Especially if it means that we can't guarantee starting next season! I'd like to know more about the implications of this (in simple terms of course...lol) |
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I'd rather they'd crossed the Mafia than not paid the Revenue, and it's the nature of the non-payment that could be important. It may not be as simple as covering the debt! |
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This doesn't help but it will make me feel better.
To all the Eric Whalley lovers, you know the guy who keeps us debt free and runs a tight ship - UP YOURS THE MANS A ****** !!! |
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Gutted but not suprised.
As for the excuses given on the fishy site..............ridiculous, HM Revenue & Customs will tear the club apart if they rely on that load of tosh! Eric, you bloody fool, you cannot in all seriousness expect us to believe this has all happened overnight...........You MUST of had warning that this was going to happen, and you have had the offer of clearing 2 thirds of this debt sitting on your desk,UNASWERED, for the past 2 months at least! They say pride comes before a fall..........well in my eyes now is the time to swallow your bloody pride man and get Ilyas on board without anymore dicking about. Yes Im bloody angry!:mad::mad::mad::mad: |
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I think one of the biggest worries is going to be internal stability, are the management team happy to continue despite the financial predicament or will they op out for new pastures.
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Bloody awful. The Clarets come into a massive windfall of millions and we end up in this predicament. Anybody thought of sending a begging letter to Turf Moor?
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On to the real issue, but we're not in full possession of the facts and won't be for a long time (if ever). I understand that people are upset and angry, but knee-jerk reactionary comments are not going to help. |
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Maybe not, but forums are in existence so that people can give their opinions and vent their obvious frustrations.
If you can think of any comments that WILL help the present situation, please submit them. |
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Just to try to try to alleviate some worries, this is a standard procedure that companies go through when their request for money has gone on for far to long. It usually gets the company who is in receipt of the winding up petition to put top priority on paying this debt. I've worked for companies that have had these, and know a few people who have instigated them. It doesn't mean that the company will be given to liquidators and it doesn't usually mean the end.
What is interesting though is that HM revenues have recently introduced a scheme for companies to pay back taxes owed on a monthly scheme, instead of all at once as it usually is, this is due to the current economic climate. I would have thought ASFC would have had this as an option, unless the debt has already accumulated over several years. |
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I would assume that the taxman would prefer some money from the club, rather than 'winding us up'. They could offer us some kind of payment plan to repay the cash over a period of time. This would mean that serious cuts would have to be made to the budget (is that what's implied in the official statement?), but at least the club could keep going.
Maybe it would take more serious measures, like going back to part-time or playing in a less national league (Blue Square North), but who knows? I'm only guessing, like we all are on here. |
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How many years does this debt go back?
How can we pay back this money on a monthly basis when we're only getting about 1300 bums on seats? Surely we have to show the taxman some sort of plan for repayment of these debts? |
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Whatever the rights and wrongs, WHY are the club ignoring a well-intentioned supporter who wants to invest £200,000? I know I keep banging on about this, but it just seems sheer and utter madness.
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Its on the BBC now - BBC SPORT | Football | My Club | A | Accrington
As has been mentioned the £300,000 owing is small fry compared to the millions which are and will pour into Burnley during the forthcoming season. Investment has desperately been needed for a long time now and sadly nothing has bared fruit which is why we find ourselves in this current predicament. Unfortunately it has been an accident waiting to happen and one that most of us feared. |
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I think it is very important that anybody involved (even slightly) with the Stanley voices their opinions at this time. Of course, if you think you know better than me (having only posted 59 times in 3 years) and that I'm not entitled to my opinion, then I will bow to your superiority. |
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At the moment this is not to bad, the club must negotiate with the revenue and come to an agreed timetable for payment. basically the revenue are getting as bit heavy. this is not a time to p*ss off Eric as he will have to be a guarantor on a bank loan. I have a rough idea on these things as mrs. slerpy worked for coutts &co. for 32 years as a bank manager.a sticky time but no where near admin. unless of course Eric "does one".
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bit at the bottom from Rob urging us not to panic:
Accrington in cash crisis - Football - Sport - Manchester Evening News |
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Apparently Rochdale had one of these a couple of years ago. It was repaid and that was that. The issue is, how do we repay it? I would presume that this hasn't come out of the blue and that the club have known it was coming for some time. I would therefore hope that the new budgeting structure was arranged with this in mind and a plan will be in place to repay the money over a period of time, but like I said before, who knows?
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One of the few who speak sense on here anymore.... Grimsby have also been in this position when the sky digital went bust, they where given around 7 years to pay off 700k, the inland revenue will want the club to carry on trading as this is their best chance of them getting their cash. It would be easy for the club to go into admin and write of these debts although we would get 10 points deducted, it is much harder work to try and ensure the club carry on as we are and honour the current debts which have been run up The wording of this news is worse than the actual reality, Although its not good...this may give some people in accrington a kick up their arses to support their local team if they want a league team in accrington Keep the faith |
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maybe a mud slinging contest would be more bad news for the club??? |
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It does rather make a mockery of all that we have read about Eric Whalley looking after the purse strings so carefully.
I've said it before, and no doubt I'll say it again, but the club needs a new broom to sweep through it. In reality, the last three years have been an endless saga of missed opportunities. We seem to have a huge opportunity now with Ilyas Khan. If the club does not use this opportunity, it probably will not get any more. |
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I'm extremely worried.
Maybe Ilyas Khan would be prepared to pay the tax man for us and afterwards purchase the club for £1! Silly dream I know. We don't even know why the club aren't talking to Ilyas, at this perilous stage it cannot be pure ignorance. I know it's not the most important thing the club has to face right now, but if the worst scenario finds itself actualised, what will happen to season ticket money? |
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Really am gutted for you guys....but what puzzles me in your and other similar cases is 'why let a debt grow so big?'
Surely your guys knew that it would have to be sorted sometime, so why put it off? I just hope that you can get the thing sorted. After all the hard work over the past years to get back into the league, the last thing you need is a return to the basement. |
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[quote=shakermaker;717419]I'm extremely worried.
Maybe Ilyas Khan would be prepared to pay the tax man for us and afterwards purchase the club for £1! Silly dream I know. We don't even know why the club aren't talking to Ilyas, at this perilous stage it cannot be pure ignorance.quote] I think to most people it would make a lot of sense if’ your ambition is to keep the company (club) alive. It really comes down to the value of the assets and what’s in the bank, if Eric what’s more than the sum value of the aforementioned, we're buggered, lets face it who in their right mind would pay (at a wild stab in the dark) three quarters of a million for Eric’s shares knowing that there’s at least 400,000.00 in liabilities. I really think the share option is part of the answer and a large influx of free cash is the other……. |
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Not too sure what you mean???? But it's the last thing on my mind at this moment in time.. :(:( |
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OK so the £300,000 might not be the end of the club we all love, but what worries me is the last paragraph that other liabilities are about a quarter of this figure i.e another £75,000. I agree with others, get Ilyas Khan on board now to assist D'On and EW. One wonders if this is the reason the takeover of the club has not gone ahead as planned!
Yes £375,000 might seem like chicken feed to Premiership and Championship clubs, but for a club like ours, it could be a killer. I do hope we are not having shades of '62 all over again |
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Opinions apart (and each and every one is valid) we could do with a one voice approach to this situation, tearing at each other is not the answer….Someone at the club as been talking crap for many months and now we have some answers to what the problem is, what we need now is Leadership, cash and some Big Bollocks………….so who is their…… |
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Good sensible train of thought... I vote you Doug....:) |
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Yeah, I've got the Bollocks but that's about it. thanks anyway. :) |
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ON STANLEY ON |
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We will be fine if we sort out a payment plan with the Revenue and court! however this is as long as we dont default on any payments that the winding up court will order us to make, for e.g say 10k a month for 30 months or something!
Also i think people are taking it out of proportion a little bit and fans shouldnt be worried, the club is taking us to the winding up court to settle a payment plan with club to pay off the £300,000 worth of taxes etc due , not to close us down! How its got to this stage of £300,000 i dont know, it be better to ask Eric Whalley in person! |
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Eric Whalley will give an exclusive interview to Radio Lancashire tonight. It'll be between 6pm (now) and 7pm. You'll have to listen on FM (103.9 or 95.5), as the DAB service is Lancashire cricket.
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BBC player - Radio |
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Cheers Bradshaw Boy, but it will not load/work?????
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EW is unimpressed with the FL and says the Club won't welch on its debts - a ground sponsor has backed away due to the betting scandal |
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Rob Heys has just been on and said he was confident that the club will survive and go forward.
Eric says he's devastated and affects him personally. He says he's known about it for a while and that Greg Pope is involved now too. He says that the club had a deal with the Inland Revenue at the start of last season to repay the money, but that was upset by the Fraser Eagle situation and the extra money needed to put the seats in, etc. He says that he doesn't want the club to go into administration. He thinks that some clubs have done that all too easily. However, if there was no other way, then we'd have to do it too. Falling gates and loss of sponsorship have affected us badly. Whalley is 99% sure that we'll still be in existence next season and "he'll still be there too". He doesn't think that O'Neil will take over the club and implied that he didn't have the financial clout to take over. (That was my interpretation of the interview, but I may be wrong). He finished by complaining that the club was still paying Cav and Rocky, which he begrudges as he expects one of them to be banned for life. That's it! |
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We'd never have got into this position if Greg Pope had claimed for the FES as his second home.
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Wahay finally something to smile about all week!!:D:D:D We we gotta laugh, otherwise theres not much hope:( :cool: |
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Now is the time for the council to act.
An extra £1 a month for a year on Council Tax should cover a large part of this. Who in Accrington would realisticlly not be happy to pay this. |
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Judging by the attendances, quite a few...:confused:
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2/ Blame the seats again, everybody knew about those for 3 years but once again it's ignore it until we can't anymore. 3/ Oh no, Oh no, Oh no, god help us. 4/ I believe as mentioned in another thread this was never a real option. 5/ The season ended weeks ago why give them a contract beyond the season end, bad business once again. |
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The way to improve the situation is for UNITY and up the attendance next season , even if you have to abduct someone'n release them at 5pm on Saturdays.
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this is sad news, but is it a master stroke by eric and co only time will tell ?if its not questions need to be asked,and how much the betting scandals have affected sponsorship anybody who was involved need to be ejected from the club as no player is bigger than the club .this is time to be ruthless,this is the time to prove to league, sponsors and the media that club was in no way involved and will not tolerate anybody connected to the club being involved ..
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I wonder if Russel's 200k gambling losses have anything to do with all this??
Ok, Mods, if this is libellous, please delete!!!! |
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Does it feel like Xmas day or something, now you got something BIG to maon about |
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My opinion, (for what it's worth) is that all our actions are too little too late, we all knew in our hearts that the club was in dire financial straits, hell, Eric tried to offload it on David LLoyd a fortnight ago down at Accy Cricket Club, saw it with my own eyes. The powers that be have ignored offers of help for their own foolish reasons, if the club goes down the pan you can all lay the blame fairly and squarely on massive mismanagement, and that all rests with one person, he who holds the purse strings, a debt of 300,000 doesn't just "appear" from nowhere.:eek:
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Oh and I am not gonna stand another quid on my council tax because someone can't balance their books. What works in my (single parent cash strapped) household is , you haven't got it, you don't spend it.....
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Well, it's a bit late now, but the Inland Revenue as main creditor has been really bothering me. A few have quoted examples whereby a club reaches an arrangement to pay off the debt, (Grimsby and Rochdale), but after searching the net this seems to have been done to stave off a winding up order, although I could be wrong.
However Eric's piece on Radio Lancashire showed that such an arrangement was made at the start of last season, and payments were not kept up. It is on this basis that the club is being taken to court, and could be liable to additional costs. An Accrington statement says total debts are under £400,000 - meaning that the taxman, as majority creditor, would veto any potential CVA as is their usual intention should the club go into Administration. (Bulls News). This seems to be backed up by Luton's plight, Luton Town - Luton: 2020 dilemma , which gives various scenarios of clubs entering administration. Maybe others were already aware of all this, maybe my interpretation is off the mark, but it seems even worse than I thought. Time for bed. |
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The other issue not so far considered is the leases ie the ground and The Crown. Obviously I have no idea whether they say this but under many modern leases the mere presentation of a winding up petition would be a ground for the landlord to seek repossession and forfeiture of the lease.
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I am sorry that my carefully drafted posting was deleted on the other thread.
I am with Ilyas on the idea of the new share issue and with Jason on the idea that the main vehicle would be the supporters trust with the Ultras and OSC playing a big role. That's not to say that others could not buy big chunks of the new shares independently. I would like Ilyas to be the Honorary President of the Supporters' Trust. Though representatives and others would doubtless want to be sure of the club's solvency going forward before putting themselves up for directorships! I am not in favour of anyone buying existing shares. What the club needs is new money and the people who subscribe are entitled to something meaningful in return including a say in how the club is run that could be through subscribing to the supporters' trust holding or their own independent shareholding if they decide to take that route. |
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I really hope that they do get it sorted and something can be worked out..and inregards to the poster who suggested that everyone pays £1 extra on their council tax to bail out stanley..not on your life..
why should I pay money to help bail someone out who cant do their job properly...did we all want to pay an extra £1 to the woolies staff or other local companies when they were closing their doors..nope...would you expect to have people pay you a £1 if you made a proper hash of something.. probably not.. and just how do you owe x amount to nat. ins and tax...? surely whoever does the books should be strung up..? |
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How can you even consider I would think it was my Christmas Day, I was gutted when I saw it on the Sky Sports ticker even though I heard something a few days ago I never thought it was this bad. There is more to Stanley than matchday and a **** up with the lads, I wish it was that simple even I would be happy but when fellow supporters can see problems and do their best to help find solutions only to be pushed aside or ignored then people like me speak up and yes have a moan. For the record this is from another thread in reply to the same question as yours from Southern Red. Yes Sir I can, the football side of Stanley has been far better this year and I believe getting John and Jimmy to sign new contracts is a good move. The fact that Eric is leaving is also a positive for the club, despite all he has done his departure is the way forward. |
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\I have a relatie wo works for the Inland Revenue and they only take this course as a last resort.
NAs for the seats ithe club have had three years to sort them so why leave them to the last few months. |
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and just how do you owe x amount to nat. ins and tax...?
surely whoever does the books should be strung up..?[/quote] The book-keeper may have done thier job properly, as may the accountant, but the signatory has to sign the cheque every month for tax, if it isnt signed, it cant be paid, the accounts dept will have known about this though. |
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I think a lot of businesses put tax and NI on the back burner when it comes to paying the bills derek, were as really it should be the first thing you pay, there is the old saying there are only two certainties in life death and taxes, and to ignore the tax man is tantamount to suicide |
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The first part of that was from another post, about stringing them up, not from me, many businesss, mine included, do put other bills before the tax man, if you run an honest business, you have to juggle sometimes, more so if it is seasonal, as is mine.
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Thats the key Jaysay, April comes at the end of my busiest time of the year, this time of year, in a recession, is very very tough.
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