Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

[quote=Stanleymad;748706]I understand that, but don't think anyone chose this as a fitting end to Stanley '68.... Other clubs are having similar problems since the recession, more will afterwards.

Remember, I still believe its falling gates & commercial income that got us here.... not Eric or Rob thinking "@@@@ it, lets not pay the tax man!"

Others may have different opinions; but had we say not conceded 3 against Hudders when 2 nil up, maybe we would have had another cup run circa 2004 & not been where we are now.

I still look on Eric as the man that put Stanley back on the map, not the big bad wolf. At least we now have a League team to SAVE not a Unibond one.....

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

As the DDay approaches are u just waiting for the call or will u or assf be down there to stop the club folding should funds not be sufficient? whats your plans for the upcoming HMRC hearing ?

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

In respect of transparency I still don’t know who makes up the ASSF; what the Constitution is and how we can access information following meetings etc; if it wasn’t for two or three individuals feeding back to me I would be absolutely clueless.

Less than a couple of hours ago I was asking one of theses individuals if I can whole heartedly have faith in you Mr. Khan….he was overwhelmingly positive in that respect.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

True i accept your good point willie i backed him 100% think he reached the highest he could go once we got to the league but unfortunately couldnt keep up with the difficulties of the league, just spiralled way out of control & was out of his depth. I suppose we can all talk with hindsight:D

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Carpon. Good Post. thank you for taking the time to be so clear. I think only one of your points remains to be answered. You ask about my being able to force the issue through board room action. The short answer is that I can call an EGM for all shareholders, but I am afraid the time for that is past. Right now, along with transparency we need cash, and the two go hand in hand. Oneil's statement that hmrc had never done a deal with the club was the first part in a process that will either unravel, or whereby oneil will raise capital - if not from assf, then others. There literally is no where to hide.

my coming onto this board is a direct result of the insults showered on me and assf by oneil in the public forum of the programme notes.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Two years ago (26 September) I started my own business because of personal dissatisfaction with the main stream and for the love and belief in my work, it’s a labour of love that has lead me to £50k of debt and its now I realise I should have taken a more realistic view of what I was doing, love won’t sustain my business, graft will see me through to profitability in three years time and then and only then will I be able to sustain myself and do what I set out to do.

Can Stanley sustain itself until such time it becomes a business?

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Any idea why a) David would do this b) why Eric wouldn't do a deal & publicly bad mouthed ya (fairy god mother thing?)

Seems a trend.....? (Thats not a dig BTW :) :) :)

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

I don't think you'll see any directors putting any cash in for the next few week, if theres been £100K raised in 4 week and its still coming in they'll sit back and wait for the dead line, this has been my thought all along but we cannot do anything about it, we have to get out there and raise funds, we can't take the risk, this is one reason I think you don't see the club organising much, maybe they know it will be paid up

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Probably, they will wait to see how much is raised Ilyas has already said he will match what the directors put in so I'm sure they would rather take this avenue than the share issue :confused:.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

willie. you see a trend do you ?what, of two people ? perhaps three if you are counted.

I am afraid a bulletin board is not a good place to conduct such dialogues - this is now the second time in two hours i believe you are being negative without cause. Yes, its fair to ask questions, and yes, i open myself up to being addressed in this way by coming on teh bulletin board.

Your faith in eric is laudable. You forget who bankrolled the club whilst he was in charge. You also forget that this tax bill is from his time. And oneil and eric have worked together for a while so when eric sold to oneil, I am sure they must have come to some deal which we are all going to find out about at some point.

listen Willie, if you have genuine questions about me and the offer, then ask them. If, like oneil, you wish to cast aspertions, then i cant stop you, but i can (and will) answer back. I have, over 17 yrs, made donations of hard cash. You and I may not have met, we may never be friends, but I have stated categorically that my interest is the future of the club. the fact that two people (eric and oneil) have got the club into this mess where we are going cap in hand to all and sundry is a disgrace. You choose to forive this for the fact we got into the league. perhaps you should ask eric where we got the cash to fight for the league ? or get acceptable ground standards ?

I ask for no favours, but I will not pretend to sit back and watch our club sink whilst you take pot shots. I have made an offer to put £250,000 into the club. My conditions are firstly - transparency (lets know how much we owe, and to whom), and secondly, that it be equity, not debt, and not handouts. Further, if oneil and eric make donations, with no conditions, i will match. what else do you think i ought to do ? come on willie, speak up. what do you think i ought to do ? pack up and go home ? withdraw the offer so that our club will fold, if not on nov 2nd, then a few months later ?

please answer these questions before you try to score debating points with me on this board. if you prefer to chat face to face, name the place and the time. just as i have told oneil on numerous occasions.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Is everyone else refreshing their page every 10 secs :D

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Isn't this the crux of the problem? Our meteoric rise up the non-league pyramid was not only due to Messrs Coleman and Bell, but also due to the club being bankrolled.

If we didn't have the core support to attract enough revenue streams through the gate and the success on the football pitch was insufficient to attract the revenue streams from advertising/hospitality, etc. during the Eric Whalley years, why should we expect it to be so different under ASSF control?

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Ilyas, beyond the immediate removal of debt, what finance would be made available to the club should ASSF become majority shareholder?

The removal of debt on its own would not suffice as an 'investment' because otherwise ASSF would be in no better a position than the apparently potless current regime. And we all know that the club needs rebuilding from the bottom upwards in order to sustain its current position for any period of time

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Think thats the only option next, as much as the generosity of the people of hyndburn & surrounding towns any more funds to come will be small & yet we still wont of reached the half way point on the ticker counter. Funds are gonna have to be sought elsewhere or face a dim prospect, thus leaving the assf as the final option open to us to keep the club next month, nevermind investing in its future.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Again you get me all wrong......totally wrong. And again I apologise if you think I am bad mouthing you. This is a forum & sometimes words typed into a thread can be read differently at the receivers end...

I just wondered if you had any idea why Eric & David would publically bad mouth you & your ideas. Not negative, not fishing for anything other than your thoughts on why? You may not have any idea... i don't know

After the meeting at your house I was seriously impressed with your passion for the cause. Still am. Every time I hear that you are gonna write a cheque & not be chairman, or even on the board, I wonder why we, as fans, are going to all the effort of fundraising. I worry about the club constantly, i think about ASFC more than anything in my life...

I will leave the questions to others with more "tactful literacy"....

I KNOW you would do the right thing for the club, so would Rob Houseman, Diane, Pete, Rob Russell, Lowiey...... We are all ASFC through & through. And that is why Illyas, whatever dialogue occurs on here & in real life, We will ALWAYS be friends

Stanley Forever

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Hi Ilyas

I can fully understand Willie Miller's question. He is only asking as to why Eric and now Dave O'Neil both refused your help. He does not appear to be 'having a pop at you' - just questioning their reasons. With everyone's love of ASFC, it is very hard to understand that they both want to bite the hand that is going to feed them!

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

The only reason I can see DON not wanting to open talks with the ASSF is because the transperacy will open a barrell of worms. Something is not right and I dont think anyone outside that office knows the truth (as a fact).
Ilyas, I think there is alot of honesty on your part and thank you for answering alot of the questions that people have asked.
Would you be looking for further possible financial backing from business associates and possible potential new backers if/on completion of a takeover by the ASSF ?

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

the new share issue would be open to all Jesus. Fans could invest from quids to thousands to tens of thousands

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Quids ?? i only have 1 quid to spare as the rest has gone into the sos fund...:eek:

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Are Glasgow Celtic run in a similar way ?
It seems an excellent idea in theory so what percentage of shares would give you a voice ?. It seems like the Buy a Football club idea at Ebbsfleet but with people that actually care.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Aspring
Solidarity
For Everyone
Club

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Cheeky I'm an Ebbsfleet shareholder and its an excellent format everyone is involved from shirt design and cost to transfers of players. I don't think there will be that amount of freedom at Stanley but if people are putting money in they will perhaps feel more at one with the club.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

I was initally interested in the project but didnt bother, but obviously thousands did. I think not continuing to invest is a major hiccup with alot of takeovers, but i think perhaps people would feel more involved if they had purchased shares.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Could I also ask Ilyas what input he had into the decision to release the 'Statement from Accrington Stanley Supporters' Fund 28/09/09'? And whether he thought that the decision to release that statement was in the best interests of Accrington Stanley Football Club or the Accrington Stanley Supporter's Fund?


My opinion of David O'Neill has fallen a great deal since those programme notes, but a public response that makes the fallout reach a much wider audience is hardly beneficial to the fund-raising efforts carried out by the fans. The press release contains the following two sentences:

While there may be a lot of agreement with those two sentences within this forum, we should also acknowledge they are two very strong reasons for people to be reluctant to hand over money to the SOS appeal. The louder we shout them, the more people we turn away from the appeal.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

I can’t get my head around why there needs to be a complete take over by the ASSF in terms of a controlling interest; yes, you all love the club and are committed, but what experience have any of you at running a football club. Why can’t there be a consensus between the ASSF and the current board (less the odd one or two, on both sides if necessary) and an amalgamation of the talent on offer.

Apart from the diehards we know and love on here, who are the ASSF? Where are the profiles? Not just the ASSF but the Club also….

Can I ask why you has a major shareholder Mr. Khan can’t you elect someone to sit on the board on you behalf, someone one who understands football and has the business acumen needed to work with those already at the club to take us forward. Yes it would mean putting money in unconditionally to clear the debt, but once that’s done you will have nailed your colours to the mast and Mr. O’Neil will have the eyes of the county on him….

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

whalley red - i refer to your post from 20.51. I dont know about the long term future, but clearly assf has the means to pay off current debt, unlike oneil etc. also, the base of funding would be broader. which cant be bad. As i have said to others this evening, worrying about a future with assf compared with oneil is not something i can understand right now, since the immediate problem is simply survival. its a bit like worrying about what colour your front room will be decorated in - after you put out a raging fire that threatens to destroy everything. If the club has many other alternatives to assf, then by all means lets chat about them and compare, and make whatever choice is best for the club. right now oneil has no money to deal with the current situation, and hence the dismal prospect of debt owed to all and sundry.

i hope my point is clear.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Spot on RR :) Thank you.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

macca your message from 20.53. Really the same point i just made to whalley red. if we dont pay off the debts we dont have the option to worry about other things. your point is that if all we do is pay off debt, we dont have further funds is somewhat of a luxury to me. In my view, unless we pay off all debt, nothing is possible. Nothing. its curtains. so we have to start by paying off debt. I am hopeful (but not sure) that we can handle both the debt repayment as well as new investment. thats why i have asked for transparency. at least if we know what the total debts are, we can then make some judgement about whether paying them off is worthwhile. Right now my view is that we MUST pay off our debts.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

I have never met Mr Khan but I want to thank him for the honesty which he has shown especially in this series of posts.

There is now no doubt in my mind where the future of Accrington Stanley lies. I think it will be a positive and exciting future.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Ilyas is right.

Football Club Directors would simply not let a club go down in circumstances where alternative finance was available as they would never hear the end of it from the supporters the other shareholders or the Liquidator or via him the creditors which usually include HMRC.

People have talked about a desire to keep control. Well no such desire could live faced with that.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Owd Bob. i accept your point about the question being legitimate. Equally, you must accept i will respond to things as I read and see them.

Coming to the question of why eric sold the club to oneil, and why oneil has refused to accept a share issue. I think it was not a case of eric refusing - so much as my refusing to pay the price he asked. When he told me that he would not compromise, I asked to look at the books so that i could make a judgement about whether his asking price was fair or not. A bit like doing a survey of a house before you buy it. At that point I had already told eric that i could not be chairman or manager or ceo, so if i bought his shares, the money would really be for the club, not for his pocket. Eric then refused access to the books of the club, and the next thing we knew is that the club owed lots of money to lots of people, but mostly to the tax man. This part of the story is quite well known. Coming now to oneil, i dont know for sure why he refuses the ASSF offer (remember assf only came into being when oneil was coming on board). I assume he has two reasons. Firstly, if he is the major shareholder, he does want to lost that position by someone else coming on board. secondly, i assume his actions speak louder than words, by which i mean he does not want assf to look at the books.

if you think I have missed a point, by all means say so. In oneil's programme notes, he did not say why he refused the offer. He only said that he wanted "unconditional" cash. Of course i then turned around and offered to match his unconditional cash. I am still waiting for an answer.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

jesus was a red from 21:26

i would LOVE it if someone else joined me. In fact i am hoping that i end up being a minority in assf. Would it not be brilliant if fans all over the world stepped up and joined the share issue ? The whole point of assf is to provide fans everywhere with the means to invest in the club, and for the club to be run for the benefit of the community.

i know many assf people are on this board, so if you are interested, please do speak up. they will make contact.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Sorry to press you on this, but either:

• the total debts are all-important; in which case the raging fire has to put out before anything else is considered and the ASSF simply gives the club the money to do so (the fire service never make conditions on offering their services) ... or
• there is a "judgement about whether paying them off is worthwhile"; in which case the club is allowed to fail if the debts are too high for ASSF funds or the judgement is made that the club cannot be made self-sufficient at this level of football.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

It seems that DON will lose money on his investment if his shares are diluted. He is hoping for the sos to hopefully raise the funds to keep his shares intact, Which from a business point of view I can have a level of sympathy. But Accrington Stanley isnt some factory or car lot it is much more than that and he will have to give in at some stage. If he has indeed bought the majority shares knowing the debts and knowing he had no further investment funds then to me its just one massive question WHY ?
My view totally. Ilyas your comments and fears prior the takeover were/are well justified in my opinion.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

signing off for tonight.

I must say, i thought long and hard about whether to get on the board. But i am glad i did. I toyed with the idea of a public statement after being publicly insulted by oneil, but in the end i thought i woudl come to the place where people actually care about the club, and allow myself the opportunity to speak openly. thank you all for your feedback - and apologies to any who might feel i have been incorrect in the way i interpreted their questions. Willie, in particular, I think we should make sure we get that glass of wine shared when i am next up in town.

someone asked if i thought the statement was fair. The decision to put out a statement was made by assf. COntrary to what you might think, i actually dont run or manage assf. I was sent an email when the statement was prepared, and asked to comment, which I did. there was overwhelming support from ASSD directors for the statement, and I thought (and still think) it is an elegant and businesslike response to the ill concieved vitriol than came out of the programme notes. MOre specifically, the point about there being more debt is essential to be bought into the open. After all, we live and work in a society that can only operate with clarity. The club is asking for support, and many many people are giving generously. In fact someone who gives £10 which is a big part of their spare income, is giving much more than I could ever give. Surely the least we can do is be open ? SUrely we should find a long term permanent solution, and not just solve this current crisis ?

I know there are many shades of opinion here, and i will aim to reply to the other posts that ask questions, but for now I shall say goodnight.

Ilyas

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Well if the debts are substantial and its not worth paying the debt off why should they ? What is the alternative ? There isn't one is there, why waste good money if the club is doomed anyway because it has massive debts all over and is going to fail anyway even if the taxman is paid.

Just my view

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

whalley red. you clearly want a longer discussion than i have time for right now. there are two choices. you wait till i come back and post, or pl send me a private mail through this system. i will be happy to give you my mobile, and we can chat. Its often easier on the phone than on a bulletin board. I am happy to make the time to talk. after all, this is about a subject close to our hearts.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

I'm so glad that many things have been made clear to fans by Mr Khan's posts. I know that at this stage the revelations just raise more questions but if the majority of fans are singing from the same hymn sheet (as Jase said, it's no good dividing the fans between 'good' and 'bad') then we'll all be better off and ASFC will live on.
Thank you Mr Khan for making this contribution tonight. I hope to meet you one day.

Onnnn Stanley Onnnn Lads!

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

I doubt if many clubs are self-sufficient at this level. The lethargy displayed by the club over the last 3 years would seem to make self-sufficiency totally out of the question. It seems to me that new investment and new ideas are the only way forward.

David O'Neill's programme notes were a disgrace to the Club. Not only were they ill-timed but they were far too negative and personal.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

it's like an episode of Lost

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

At the moment it feels like we are robbing Peter to pay Paul & we are not going to get anywhere.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

At the end of the day, what I want to know, is should we really be breaking our necks to raise this cash, begging basically.... when we don't know the full story.

Someone in the bar on Friday said "the current regime are using the Ultras as mugs...."

If thats true then there is gonna be chaos... We were stood in the rain in town, badgering folk, taking abuse off others.... "get eric to pay" etc etc

Lets hope, that when the truth comes out... its exactly as we have been told. 300k tax & about 60k working debts........

"GULP"

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

I do not believe that anybody thinks that the Ultras are "Mugs" Willie :)

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

At the moment if the club has any other 'working' debts, then all they are doing and must of been doing is paying one and not the other i.e paying the D'ON and not HMRC. PAYE totalling 300k is prob. 2 or more seasons worth. So if this debt is soley from 2006, then the charges ect. must be astronomical.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

:) I second that VALAIRIAN,and WILLIE you and the rest of the Ultras have and are doing a great job in your vocal backing of the team and your efforts to raise the FUNDS needed:)

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Willie , forgive me, but I am not being negative just realistic.............if I were you I wouldnt be holding my breath, I firmly believe that this is the tip of the iceberg and much more will come to the fore.

As for the Ultras being taken for 'mugs', well I guess thats open to debate, but I know where I stand on it...............Its not just the Ultras though, its everyone who has given no matter how large or small.

Don, has said publicly that He was aware of the debt BEFORE He took over and that He has no intention of simply putting cash into the club (both statements made at the last fans forum), so by my reckoning he is getting You, Me and everyone else who has donated to pay off a debt that He knowingly took on and ignoring completely the offers of funding on the table..................does that make us 'mugs'?...............:mad:

In closing, I too would like to thank Ilyas for having the 'balls' to come on here and answer all questions asked, I wonder if Mr O'Niel will follow suit?..........Like I advised you Willie, I shan't hold my breath!!! :o

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

I understand now. I thought you were referring to the fundraising.

I'm sure you are correct in saying that the debts will have built up over recent years.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

I Khan't believe I've just got in and missed all this. Come on Mr O'Neill get on here, someone said on here they wished they had balls as big as you had! so nows your time to show them and get on this forum.:D

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Im sure he on here indirectly. :rolleyes:

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Thank you Mr. Khan, at least you have given us the time and have attempted to answer our questions; I’m sure there will be many more over the coming days should you be free to answer them.

I have asked a couple of times on here for the club to accept a Q&A session via this forum perhaps now they could elect a spokesperson to bring forward the views of the Board (not necessarily Mr. O’Neil’s) and at least try and gain the trust of the supporters.

I also notice that the SOS site as been updated; fine a figure that it is, it is still far from encouraging and without any doubt whatsoever our only hope is some level of input from Mr. Khan and or others.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Goodnight!..and thank you for your honest and 'transparent' posts Ilyas.....perhaps the points which you have made tonight might just stimulate Mr O'Neil into making some honest, and less critical statement relating not only to the real Fiscal Status Quo at Accrington Stanley F.C.Ltd . but also one which will outline HIS Strategy for the salvation and on-going life of the club!.

This protracted trauma is not doing our Club and everyone associated with it any favours whatsoever....as so many postings appear to agree with !...
and disillusionment is never difficult to determine !...The clock is ticking...and it really is time to Save our Stanley!!

Goodnight Ilyas......Bon Chance!!!!

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Hi all
Tomorrow night I'll be at Vale Park doing a three hour radio programme dedicated to Accrington Stanley. I'm proud to be able to do that. But God I'd like to have some good news to talk about.

The team is looking good on the pitch, the fans are doing a TERRIFIC job. But every week, more rumours and stories circulate about who has said what, who has what agenda and what everyone's hidden motivation is.

I'd just like to hear some facts, from the people who are directly involved. So I'm going to ask them.

At half time tomorrow I'm going to invite Mr. O'Neill and someone from the ASSF onto the programme to give us some facts, answer a few straight questions and perhaps make some progress.

Not argue, or bitch or score points. This isn't "a verbal crossfire in the local or national press ". It's a chance for both sides to be heard, and for issues to be addressed.

If (as I suspect) all parties decline the invitation, then I guess I'll talk to myself and continue to worry...

Dan

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Cheer’s Revived Red,

I understand that is the case, I myself did stick my ore in and pledge allegiance to the SOS Fund above all else, but I would implore all those involved actively on the Board of the ASSF to ensure that their individual profiles are made available with a degree of urgency if their to gain and hold the moral right to take this club forward on the back of Mr. Khan’s generous offer of financial support.

There was talk of a web site for all things ASSF? If this is yet to be resolved I would suggest that it done with all expediency if people are to believe that the ASSF is offering clarity and transparency to the backbone of support. The fans, be they members of the ASSF or not.

If survival lay’s at the feet of Mr. Khan and the ASSF working with or without the current Board of Accrington Stanley then we need to know who we are working with/for over the coming weeks.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

God you've got some big, big balls Dan...rather you than me....:) I hope it comes off and that both parties act respectfully....we need some positive media coverage to match what those lads and lasses are doing on the streets collecting and what our lads are doing on the Pitch. :) Good Luck Dan...

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Credit to you for that Dan, I for one will be listening.


Many thanks Illyas for your honesty on this thread earlier tonight.:D

The following points I wish to make are not aimed at anybody in particular, They're my own opinion and opinions that hold dear.....so here goes....

Like many on here I want to hear FACT, not FICTION. TRUTHS and not HALF TRUTH or FABRICATIONS. Time to stop burying heads in the sand like the preverbial ostrich, come clean, and let everyone who cares, know the extent of the mountain we have to climb.:confused:

AT this time, there is little point in putting the finger of blame at anyone. The main objective should be CLARITY and that word "transparency". MY OWN OPINION, but the fight against the battle this club faces is being lost among bickering.The common goal concerns the club, which Everyone fought so hard to get back on the footballing map, overcoming this battle and moving on to better things.:o

What I've seen on the pitch this season, convinces me that, solve this or / the problems, the product on offer on the pitch may convince others that this is a club worth saving, be they the floating fan, or someone else willing to get on board and invest.:)

I've every confidence in Coley and Bell delivering a side, the side that's putting more of, the more than promising performances that we've witnessed recently, pushing on to greater things. What a crime it would be, to see all their efforts, now and in the past laid to waste.:(

However I can't see the D'on wanting to talk in the direct media spotlight. I only hope that sometime soon, somebody at the top will either:

A) Come clean....admit there is a problem, seek additional help and look seriously at the offers from the parties that are there to help (be they ASSF or other) .....or

B) Make a Solid statement, to allay the fears of many, stating the debt or debts will be honoured, explaining in full the concrete plans they have, where the money WILL BE FOUND, to ensure the immediate status of the club is NOT in jeopardy, putting ALL the facts on the table for ALL to digest.

That clock I talked of earlier in this thread is still ticking....the wolf is still at the door. Time that all involved,start singing from the same hymnsheet and start setting in stone, the plan of action needed to send the beast away from the door.

I only hope (and dread and fear to state the last point),the time does not come again, when the spectre of '62 comes back to claim the club, where as a collective we have face defeat and the preverbial wolf will have blown our house down.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Valerian, Nickelson and others - you were talking about how much debt there might be, and hoping it is close to the £308k plus £60k mentioned in early summer. I think that the numbers are out of date for the following reasons - and would love it if oneil clarified once and for all so that we can plan not only how much is needed now, but how much is needed overall to clear the decks.

- the number above is too low on the £60k simply based on teh fact it does not include the money borrowed from glasson, assf and others. that figure is at least £50k right now

- in addition, the club has had costs from that time onwards

- in addition, the players have not been paid (in latter weeks i think PFA has stepped up)

- the PAYE is outstanding for quite a few months. Not sure exactly how many months, but its a tidy sum that adds up quickly

- we do not know if the seats have been paid for yet. i hope they have, but that is another tidy sum outstanding.

The points above are simply what i am aware of or can deduce from what the club has said. I hope to god its nots more than this.

Also, oneil, when you next make a statement in the programme, please clarify what has happened with the football league cash which the club has recieved. Fans and supporters and donors deserve to know. In this day and age, when we give to a charity, we get a full disclosure of how the money is used, and what the charity's finances are. ASFC should maintain the highest standards in this regard if it is going to ask for help.

I also look forward to oneil coming on this forum to clarify things, and also, i accept dan's invitation to go on a programme with oneil. i think its only fair that we try to work for the club, and being on a radio programme, to discuss the issues that matter at this critical time, would be healthy. I also know that Peter Marsden from the supporter's fund has been on radio, and is easily reached. He, and others at ASSF, are sickened by the current state of affairs, and want to get cash into the coffers and pay off the tax bill, but we have been denied by the club who simply refuses to accept the offer due to a fear of losing control. If, as oneil says, no one is bigger than the club, then he should put up or push off.

Ilyas

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Good morning Ilyas,

Just a tiny point on your last post, I'm assuming that you mean Peter Shaw from ASSF and not Peter Marsden!................:)

It is to be hoped that Mr O'Neil takes up Dan's offer as well, but in all honesty I would be very surprised if He did..........we shall see.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

The ball is firmly in Mr. Oneils court.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

From 12000 miles away, Mr O'niell sure is coming across as a poser. He does seem to be behaving like the proverbial 'spoilt brat'.
Dosen't inspire me to donate $$ to the SOS fund.. however, if he was to make a share issue and Ilyas was involved, or front up and 'clear the air', that would change things...

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Here here & hope that both parties can come together to sort this out, great suggestion Dan will tune in with hope & interest :D

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Many thanks Ilyas, For your comforting words and honest answers to many honest and worried fans at this time of need.

At the ASFC fans forum I asked O'neil, if the SOS fund did not collect the amount neccessary for the taxman ? Could he assure us that he would take what ever offers there are out there to ASSURE that our club would survive ? He said there were various options or offers, He said that I would have to TRUST his judgement ???

After he had said that he bought a club in a big mess with no money ??? SORRY my trust needs some help.

I would love to help ASFC more than I have but giving money to a company that I dont have 100% trust is impossible.

I think Ilyas's offer is the FUTURE for our club, We need to see where we stand, PAY for the foundations(ALL debt),GET total transparency for all to see, BUILD a SAFE and SECURE future.

This job is bigger than any one man, It needs to include Loyal fans, Local business, Common sense, AND most importantly John Coleman and Jimmy Bell.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

UK cowboy, yes, you are right. Its Peter Shaw. Although Peter Marsden and all other directors are welcome to come along to a radio conversation. I really do hope that we can move quickly to resolve these issues prior to the HMRC deadline. Maybe accy web will act as a catalyst to put the club first, and all others second.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

I couldn’t agree more Simon; in the space and time available TRUST is going to be everything so I hope that the ASSF will either here or on it’s own site make us aware of who is who and they are bring to the fold as individuals, above that we need to know what’s going to happen if Mr. O’Neil and the Board accepts Mr. Khan’s offer in terms of how the club will be managed. I for one would love to see a partnership develop between the ASSF and the existing framework at the club (that doesn’t have to mean Mr. O’Neil and the silent Marcella) it means the small existing shareholder and general workforce.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Doug - firstly i wont be as quick off the draw today as i was last night and this morning on accyweb, so forgive me if i am late in getting back to you. I have been the recipient of a couple of emails in the past week or so from "the club", but other than oneil's delightful message from the programme notes, and a wonderfully abusive email in May, i have not had a communication from oneil. I have written to the club this morning and asked them how they justify going cap in hand to members of the public whilst not stumping up themselves. In any other business, this would not be tolerated. I have asked oneil to at least put some of his own cash on the table, and thus inspire others to take his lead. I will await feedback with interest.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

I would not hold my breath on that one Mr Khan, the whole thing is an absolute shambles,how the people in charge at ASFC can call themselves businessman is totally beyond me, all I would say is thank you for your open and honest statements you have made.
Come on Mr O,neill it,s time to wake up and smell the coffee and if you and your fellow directors are not 110% accrington stanley it,s time to pack up and ship out, I for one care about ASFC and want to know if I am going to have a team to follow in a months time.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

You’ll have to forgive me too Mr. Khan, I will be in and out like a yoyo. I work from 6.45 am until 10.30 pm every day, seven days a week. I can only get on during the breaks in between my calls so forgive me if I appear to post and run.

Like others I am keen to see a consensus develop between the two sides, despite the current situation there as been some good work done by the club and I am sure that this apparent split between yourself and Mr. O’Neil will only serve to make some people nervous, so again ask why can’t a partnership be developed that allows the ASSF play a role along side of those experienced in running a football club rather than control passing directly to the ASSF.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

from my involvement in the earlier days of the ASSF Doug, I don't think there would have been a problem with maintaining the status quo if ASSF had become majority shareholder at an earlier point. The committee is a group of Stanley fans who want the best for their club. The Dons' regime got off to a good start and nobody had any problem with him or his management.

Since then I fear that irreparable damage may have been caused and people have lost faith in him or his abilities. Not least of all because his Google Page Ranking skills appear to have been learnt at the Whalley school of insults.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Sorry rob I have to go...I didn't mean the Mr. O'Neil I was taking it that he would be buggering off.....

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

doug, i thought i had answered your question. But here goes again. I think that if assf ends up with a majority shareholding, we had already (in may) said that we would love to work with oneil. However he is the one who refused, not assf. Separately, on sept 2nd, our offer assumed a continuing working relationship with people on the board who had experience and commitment. Right now, on the basis of all the evidence in hand, I would submit that oneil has proven by his actions that he cannot run the club. There are many many people who DO work at the club, and even others on the board who are truly inspirational and important, and I can see continuity in that context.

Does this answer, specifically, your question ? would you like further clarity via a phone call ?

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Thank you ILyas answered my worry & Q regarding your intentions as well as the assf, i doubt that the club will respond on here in all honesty. I hope that matters are resolved quickly & with the greatest regard for all in the name of asfc. I have helped out as much as i can even making sure our players kits are lettered/no'd up without charge, trying to get the idea thro thats businesses can work together as part of the future aspect, but again my main concern is that there is a club for the players to play with pride for & an on pitch as well as off pitch effort from all of those that represent asfc. Old methods aren't working, an effective communicative working relationship & professional Google Page Ranking is essential, things do have to change for the better - whoever takes over.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

It's high time the LET, Observer and Radio Lancashire became a lot more proactive in getting a statement/interview from the DON as to exactly how he is going to resolve things before the tax deadline. Searching questions need to be asked of him. After all, he holds all the cards at the moment, even if it is a bum hand. If he is reluctant, then he needs to be publicly shamed into responding. Hereford's Bulls News are doing a better job than our local hacks.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Redraine, I'm doing my best not to get the hump at the last post... ;)

Here's an update on what's in store tonight:

2BR Sport from 7 - between 7 and 745 we'll try to concentrate on football, then we'll have first half commentary on Port Vale against Stanley.

AT HALF TIME: Rob Heys has agreed to come on the programme (I did ask for David O'Neill, but I'm sure Rob won't mind if I told you that he said he'd prefer to do it) to clear up a few things and answer some questions.

HERE'S WHERE I NEED YOUR HELP!

I don't have time to trawl through the 11 pages of this thread. If you have a question, can you please email it to me ([email protected] or [email protected] ) we are dealing in facts, not opinions, and I don't want an arguement. It's a clearing the air and clarification exercise.

THEN we'll have the whole second half.

AFTER WHICH Ilyas Khan will be on the programme (technology permitting - I'll confirm later 100%) to again make some things clear and answer a few concerns (not unlike the earlier posts in this thread)

AGAIN, EMAIL ME [email protected] or [email protected]

I can't stress how much I'd like YOUR questions and YOUR points. It's an opportunity to get straight answers from the people at the forefront of this situation.

Ta
Dan

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Well done Dan, should be well worth a listen (can't say I'm surprised it's Rob who's agreed to do it instead of Dave O'Neil but at least one of them has)

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Thank you Mr. Khan that does answer my question and thank you for the offer of a phone call, I am assured by your response.

Can you assure us that an Action Plan for any take over is complete and if it will be readily available to the supporters for scrutiny?

Given that an Action Plan is in place; can I also ask if Boardroom decisions will be democratic (majority vote) or will the Chair take formal decisions?

Will the chair be elected by the entire board or, will you and any other financial backers involved put the person(s) in situ.

Historically the clubs response to financial crisis has been to sell talented players and or pass the cap around the Township or occasionally borrow. Given your aversion to accruing debt how does the ASSF plan to secure the finances to move forward once this and any other build of debt is cleared.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

[quote=Dan;748956]Redraine, I'm doing my best not to get the hump at the last post... ;)

Get him Dan.............:D


AT HALF TIME: Rob Heys has agreed to come on the programme (I did ask for David O'Neill, but I'm sure Rob won't mind if I told you that he said he'd prefer to do it) to clear up a few things and answer some questions.quote]

And of Marcella Dan, any sign. Did she not put herself forward given her experience and links to the foot balling community? :confused:

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Check your email Dan, just remember you did ask!!:D

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

[QUOTE=Doug;748974]Doug!...Perhaps it's a case of 'still waters running deep!'...or better still in Marcelle's case 'silence being golden' ..(She may well be sitting on a pile of the golden stuff just waiting to pounce!...although I somehow doubt it!).....

Hey!!why am I typing cliches instead of imploring Ilyas to keep in mind his recent indication that he sees the Accy Web as being a strong, nay even powerful tool in this strange and some might say unnecessary hiatus in the Club's fortunes!!...I think that he might just be right in his judgement!...we are here to Help!!

To all involved I would say....'DO WHAT IS RIGHT !....and the RIGHT conclusion will be reached!...Lose your integrity...and you'll fail !....

'ON STANLEY....ON!!!!'

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

the only problem with Rob doing it is that there becomes an opportunity to fudge a question ie "David said that the ASSF were given opportunity to save the club, is this true?" "not sure Dan, maybe David would be better equipped to answer that question?"

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Very true Rob, however lets be honest, O Neil was NEVER going to go 'live' in a month of Sundays!!............We will just have to rely on Dans excellent journalistic and interview skills, and Rob Heys 'doing the right thing'.

On a positive note tho, Im glad that Ilyas is going to appear (technology allowing), as it will give some of those on here who have not met the guy to at least get to hear the passion and sincerity with which He views ASFC.

Should be a good show, more so when we get the points aswell!! :)

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Why does oneil not go on air ? He's ok writing stuff in the programme it's about time we heard it from the horses mouth. It's a bit late in the day to still be ducking and diving if he had anything about him he would be on air defending himself, draw your own conclusions to his absence.:rolleyes:

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

No doubt that Mr. O'Neil will be in ear shot of the interview and Rob will be able to confer directly with him (off Mic) rather than make excuses for Mr. O'Neil.

Dan; I feel that the media in general (mainly TV) as done us no favours and much of what as come out as been repetitive and meaningless in the main.

Do us proud Dan; take no prisoners (Any Crap) from either camp….

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

sent two days ago now Jeff, according to Rob Heys yesterday

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Oh "they are in the post" are they. Probably take Royal Mail six months to deliver them

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

I nearly peed myself when I heard that comment last night, the classic "the cheque's in the post".

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Can't believe they've been sent by ordinary 1st class post - surely documents as important will have been sent by courier to make sure they don't get lost :rolleyes:

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

They have probably been sent by a fantasy carrier pigeon:)

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Jeff, any updates on the Companies House debacle?

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Even if they arrived next day they wouldn't have been processed, Companies House is going through a five day system change.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Thanks Dave!

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Accounts have been lodged - balance sheet only.

The balance sheet shows a loss of £238469 for the year 1st June 2007 to 31st May 2008.

The amounts falling due within one year have increased by £277260 during the year to £520566 this is probably due to the Inland Revenue assessment.

The amounts falling due after more than one year have increased by £95689 during the year to £220420 - this could possibly indicate a loan to the Club being included.

The nett worth of the Club at 31st May 2008 was £18351

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Jeff, do you have a breakdown of current assets?

In the previous year's balance sheet, two-thirds of current assets were classed as 'other debtors'. If that is still the case (e.g. if Fraser Eagle are still classed as a debtor, though they clearly won't be paying any more money), then the club is all but technically insolvent.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

right that settles it, I'm gonna remortgage my house and put in an offer :D

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Current Assets:
Stocks £20296
Debtors £71776
Cash at Bank £41022

The amount for Debtors has reduced from £123729 in 2007 to £71776 in 2008, I presume that this amount does include Fraser Eagle money but the balance sheet is only up to 31st May 2008 and Fraser Eagle were still in business then. Things may have changed since then.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Calling Granville Thompson. Any comment, please? Remember what they said about you.

"greater financial control and monitoring.....wealth of experience in financial management....up-to-the-minute financial information"

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

does anyone have a breakdown of fixed assets?

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

Total fixed assets £626243 made up of:

Intangible assets (Player transfer fees paid to acquire a player on a contract of two or more years) £75436.
At 1st June 2007 the figure was £10000 this was increased by £85000 (is this what we paid for Craney?) the value has been written down (amortised) by £19564 thus leaving a balance of £75436.

Tangible assets are £550807.
At 1st June 2007 the figure was £424263 during the year there were additions of £156964 (possibly the roof) these figures have been written down during the year (depreciated) by £30420 thus leaving a balance of £550807.

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