ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

this statement will be sent to the press tomorrow as a direct result of the accusations made in fridays programme

Accrington Stanley Supporters' Fund Ltd. (ASSF) was formed when a group of supporters, including Ilyas Khan, came together following the May 09 court hearing when Accrington Stanley Football Club appeared for non payment of tax revenues.

Supporters were fearful that the club would be put in to administration. We were delighted when the Club announced that it had come to an agreement with the tax man to pay off the arrears over twelve months, confirming it could restructure its finances to meet the arrangement.

Indeed, Professor Glasson and then the Supporters' Fund, made substantial loans totalling some £45,000 to the Club. Professor Glasson and the Supporters Fund believed, mistakenly as it happens, that this cash would help pay instalments off the tax bill.

The Supporters' Fund, with the backing of Ilyas Khan, made the offer to pay off a further substantial amount of the tax bill in July 09. Two main conditions were requested by the Supporters Fund, one that the Club create a share issue and two, that the Club make its accounts transparent so the true financial picture could be assessed.

This has been the consistent and only approach of the Supporters' Fund.

The directors of the Club have continued to ignore this offer.

We were informed by the Club on Friday 28th August that Accrington Stanley was to appear in the High Court the following Wednesday, 2nd September. HMRC were petitioning for Accrington Stanley to be wound up as none of the outstanding tax bill had been paid since the alleged agreement made back in May 09.

On Saturday, 29th August, we met with the Club's chairman and the chief executive and again reiterated the offer from the Supporters' Fund, with conditions as before. At no time did Mr. O'Neill indicate he would be prepared to relinquish his control of the Club.

Despite it being a Bank Holiday weekend, by 4p.m. on Tuesday 1st September, the Supporters' Fund's offer was reinforced by a letter, through our solicitor, which was presented to the High Court. The Supporters' Fund have demonstrated that we are genuine in our offer to help save Accrington Stanley from extinction.

The result was an eight week stay of execution by which time HMRC have to be paid £308k. The ASSF made a proposal to the chairman and directors of Accrington Stanley, shortly after the court date on 1st September, outlining again the two main conditions and the time scales necessary to finalise the arrangement to meet the court's deadline.

ASFC has again declined to respond to the offer.
Accrington Stanley is facing a forest fire of debt, and its directors are using water pistols to try and put it out, and are not even prepared to use their own water, i.e. none of the directors have put their own cash on the table at this critical time.

We believe that the Club's debt is now substantially more than just £308k owed to the tax man. If the Club wish to dispute this statement then we ask that they open up their accounts to scrutiny.

The Supporters' Fund, allied with the generosity of Ilyas Khan, is able to remove Accrington Stanley Football Club from debt.

The continuing and prospering League status of the club must override the intransigence of the Club's chairman and its directors, who seem interested only in avoiding a dilution of their shareholdings and losing control.

Ilyas Khan has made it quite clear that he has no wish to take control of Accrington Stanley Football Club.

If the Supporters' Fund offer was to be accepted, and as a result it becomes the majority shareholder, control of ASFC would be vested in the Supporters' Fund and not Ilyas Khan.

Through its membership, the Supporters' Fund is well placed to take over the administrative affairs of the club, with skills in business management, communications, media, finance and funding.

The Supporters' Fund has every confidence in the club's manager, coach, playing staff and players.

The removal of Accrington Stanley from debt would allow the finance that is currently having to be used to service the debt, to be channelled into strengthening the playing side of the Club, allowing a challenge for promotion.

Very few Football League clubs will have the advantage of such an offer.

The Supporters' Fund, and indeed all supporters everywhere, are delighted with the generosity shown so far in helping to minimize this financial burden on the Club. However, it is necessary to look at the future sustainability of Accrington Stanley Football Club, and it does not look as if the present board of directors is able to fund that sustainability.

They must not be allowed to mortgage the Club's survival against future income as this would be disastrous.

As true supporters of Accrington Stanley, the Supporters' Fund has amply demonstrated its willingness to step up to the table. Our offer is one that ensures finance goes directly into the club.

We ask that fans everywhere, and the public at large, join us in supporting the offer that will ensure a confident future for Accrington Stanley Football Club. Also, we invite all and any supporters to take up any number of shares when the offer has been made, and thus become part of ASFC's future.

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

discuss

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I think that when the time comes,the present board will come up with the cash to pay the tax burden.

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As a neutral I can only say neither party is doing itself any favours :rolleyes:

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Posted via Mobile Device Discuss ? Erm explain again laymens terms please? I haven't had the pleasure of meeting mr khan so cannot assess his intentions, nor formulate any true opinion. What is the statement trying to say, it seems all round the houses as to basically rebut the don's hastily direct comments on the programme without a thought on the readers point of view that i can agree with.

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As a non-neutral I can totally agree Dave.

The bickering and in-fighting is not needed WHATEVER the situation. The best for both parties is to aim for full clarity.

All that statement will do is divide opinion and cause a rift.

Bad idea

Re: ASSF response to The Dons programme notes ...
 

As, incidentally, were the D'on's programme notes imho

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I'm glad the ASSF has defended itself against those idiotic words in the programme.

The ASSF doesn't want to be seen as fighting against the club but when the chairman (or one of them) comes out with tripe like that they can't just sit back and let people believe it.

O'Neill spoke of being 'focussed' and 'in control'. His blurb defied any remnants of that image.

I was more than sucked in by his turd polishing over the summer and now only see an empty shell of a football club. Thank God for Messrs Coleman & Bell giving us brilliant home football matches to make us forget the crap that goes on at the top.

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The other point is that as many others may feel, is that im sick of the piggy in the middle of the sides squabble. My only main interest is to the players & management of ASFC team - whom are seemingly getting it right on the pitch & say that we are an able league 2 side atm - they are the ones too who must feel the same too, very unsettling, but praise them for keeping their heads in the game even tho this must be hard on them too. Not forgetting the support that fans, supporters & people of Accrington whom have tried despite reservations of history repeating itself, helping the club in huge support in order that the taxman goes away. Maybe i should forward a reminder of how serious a case it is to be forced to resign from the league resulting from money troubles & bad management, please can we get the matter sorted asap.

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In a nutshell then,

The Don says that ASSF were offered the chance to gain control of the club immediately prior to the 2nd Spetember HMRC hearing.

ASSF says that they weren't

ASSF has repeatedly offered money in return for shares and clarity (to try to ascertain whether there are any other debts that have yet to rear their ugly heads)

ASFC has not declined the offer - but they have refused to respond.

ASSF has the capacity to remove the club from debt in its entirety

ASFC isn't interested.

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What was said in the program?

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The longer it drags on, the more harm it is doing to the playing side. This, at the end of the day, is all that truly matters when supporting a FOOTBALL club....

Shares, directors, profit, loss, financial forecasts... all boring!

Sort it out before the mess really harms the football!!!

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wrongly or rightly, I don't think that conflict at this stage will do any help for both parties.

This is a time when everyone, fans, directors, players, ANYBODY, needs to come together and work towards one goal... Saving OUR Stanley.

I know this is exacly what your doing, but achieving our goal will only be done in harmony.

This Is the Club That Wouldn't Die.. and I have every faith in all concerned that these very words will live on, Like the Stanley

ON STANLEY ON.

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Come on Rob, at the end of the day ASSF is Illyas...... Don't see it any other way

BTW we counting money at 8 in the crown if anyone is free???

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Doug mate - nail hit on head springs to mind - that is EXACTLY IT, even to the last line.

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spot on.

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Is the Don's statement thats sparked this to be found anywhere on the net?

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The thing is no-one will back down.....

1) Nobody "gives" £250k to anyone without some conditions
2) O'Neill has sweated & toiled for months & put his own money in. You think he will just step down & write off the time & money invested

As Doug says Supporters are stuck in the middle... Our supporters group is divided, but all we can do is raise, raise, raise....... unconditional support for OUR town & OUR football club......

Blind support? maybe.... time will tell

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I think your right Dave!! Any neutral reading both statements would think ,why do they need my money when its all ready their waiting in the wings.This could harm the SOS fund in its efforts to raising the money :(This should have been sorted privetly IMHO

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If u look on the v crewe thread outback ozzy quoted the statement the DON made, hope that helps:D

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Is that what's known as a 'hedge' fund then? ;)

I haven't said much about this since it started, but I'm tiring of the whole thing to be honest. All the back-biting in the press and general silliness is doing nothing for the overall cause.

I'm pretty much at the maximum of my own private contribution and I'm doing the sponsored walk to raise a bit more, but that's the end of it as far as I'm concerned.

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I think that is what’s saddening out this episode, I have stated else ware that the fact that O’Neil as put in is own money up now (around £250k I understand) so it’s only right that if the ASSF wants’ control then at least it would show respect and acknowledgement of his previous commitment from the ASSF/Khan camp; he would be an idiot to walk away and abandon that level of investment…I don’t think Mr. Khan will have made his money by doing such things.

What we need is leadership; if the ASSF wants to control Accrington Stanley then it should at least show some common since and allow O’Neil to withdraw with some financial settlement; it would be cheaper for him to let the club die rather than gift it to the ASSF.

That said any reluctance or inability to further invest in the club should be seen as a negative position and there for untenable in the eyes of those currently bailing out the club…………..The Public.

If the ASSF is to be seen as impartial then their must be an irreversible withdrawal of Mr. Khan from the cause, unfortunately that would mean the ASSF is penniless to help anyone.

If Mr. Khan was to purchase 25% Mr. O’Neil’s holding and then gives an equal share to the ASSF and each party was then to pay off the short fall with an equal donation we would have a working consensus.

Alternatively stop messing about and buy the club Mr. Khan and then turn it into a business in partnership with the people.

On Stanley On.

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The real thing that gets me about all of this is that EVERYBODY is right. I have spoken to many people of all walks of life, ages, professions and everybody has an opinion and many of them differ from person to person.

Ilyas has been trying to make the club come clean about the true nature of its accounts. Should this be done he is/was willing to put money in. The club wasn't able or willing to divulge this information so a man with more wealth than the rest of the fan base put together is/was unwilling to shed any more of his money.

The thing that got me about the Dons statement is that he accused the ASSF of not being true fans - well you all know me and Loweiy and Valarian and UK Cowboy and Accy Mad and that statements cuts me to the core. The other aspect was that he said that ASSF was offered the chance to buy the club when it wasn't - so that is a bare faced lie.

There is a statement on here that says this business should be conducted privately and it is right.

But I also believe that the club itself has damaged the fundraising effort by not actually spearheading the campaign, by not being seen to be on the frontline and in the trenches, by not having its Chairpersons, Co-Chairman and directors out there physically knocking on doors. Last week was a no mention week as far as fundraising was concerned and that allowed seeds of doubt to be sown in everybodies heads. I'm not happy about any aspect of this campaign but the only option I see is to carry on fundraising because until we know different that is what we are expected to do.

I'm not on anyones side in all this but both sides have the right to express opinion and to defend themselves.

The club thinks that it can dig itself out of this hole and ASSF and Ilyas think that they can't. The worry is that if it can't ASSF will be able to do nothing about it until it is too late (as far as admin and points deduction is concerned) and that may jeopardise our league position.

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As the saying goes u can lead a horse to water but u cant make it drink! Think thats the main issue that is causing the utmost problems tho my main worry is the rumours of the ghost of eric visable. I do think honesty is needed but most likely not going to get and i seriously am worried about the state of our club and would so hate to lose it.

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Surely one question is this - when the Don pushased the majority shareholding in ASFC, did he undertake a complete exercise of Due Diligence? If he did, then a fully reconcilied balance sheet would have revealed the amounts due to HMRC. If he was aware of this then he should have known that future cash resources would have to be made available to cover the liability. If he was not aware of it, then why not? Was everything due to a spit in the hand, followed by a shake of the hand? Or was there possibly some incorrect financial recording in the books ?

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Well expressed macca. Unfortunately if ASFC doesn't dig itself out of the hole HMRC are going for a 'winding up order' - not administration - which means complete closure, out of business. It saddens me to be the bearer of such news.

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Maybe you should make your "reminder" available for all parties to see, SM. I must admit, I haven't had sight of it, but when you described it to me, even on a busy Friday afternoon in Peel Street, I felt, a cold, dark chill run through my heart, and I'm sure any true Stanley would feel the same. Perhaps, to actually see this document would concentrate minds on what could be the true consequences of the present situation for our club and would spur the participants on to find a solution!

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Like TM I've been very quiet recently with the opinion that SOS is the only thing that matters but this Whalley thing is gaining momentum which I don't like. Just a thought is it possible that DON didn't buy Whalley out and it was all a sham, it would answer one or two questions.:confused:

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It would certainly explain why an established businessman would buy a business without having a clear assessment of the accounts and knowing that there was a large unpaid debt hanging over it.
I'm no fan of conspiracy theories, but that issue is something that I just can't figure out.

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Illyas will stay out of the argument and like all good business man though a ASFC fan will do what all good business men do. I hate to say this but the businessman side of him will win and so when ASFC is at its weakest and on its knees he will then act to to take control of the club.

There is that much pulling in all directions i liken it to a man having his limbs torn from his body by horses. All that will be left is a corpse which sadley will be ASFC. :(:(:(:(:(


Each party seems to have its own agenda and it is the club that is suffering for it. The whole ruddy lot of them need their heads banged together in order with luck to knock some sense into them all. The club comes first which has been lost amongst all the petty bickering and attempts at one upmanship.

The grim reaper awaits and those that can ward him off cant agree on how to deal with this harbinger of doom.

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Wouldnt the sale of ACCRINGTON STANLEY have to go through companies house so it can be registerd under a new owner?

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:(:( why am i getting very WORRIED:(:( for the FUTURE of our STANLEY:(:(

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I know that feeling Mab and couldnt hold it in any longer i had to say what i did they way it all comes across to me. I hope there is a future so i am crossing my fingers.

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Owww means i have to see it & be saddened again but if that what it takes wyn it seems no option but least buys a little time to seriously consider the consequences.....here come the tears as it chilled me when sent the scan copy curtesy of Gregor who sent it to me to be displayed at the exhibition, so some of you have seen it there or may of overlooked it, but here it is again...........with begging that history wont lend itself to repeat :( No football club - no players, no ground & no staff most of all no fans to support it other than in memory ..again.

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Thanks, SM.

Heartbreaking reading for anyone who loves the club. Read and take note, all relevant parties! :(

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One would hope that common sense will prevail and that the ghosts of 1962 will remain just that. Each of us has good cause to be worried, not because of what could happen; but by what is happening. The clubs response to this situation as been at best inept and was it not for true unsung heroes’ likes of Willie and the Ultras and Rob and the OSC and individual supporters of both Stanley and other local clubs little would have been achieve; from what I see and read all the club as managed is a little more than £14k for the Darlo game and even that wouldn’t have been possible without the sacrifice of the clubs employees.

The Club won’t die this time…I’m sure that Mr. Khan will do the honourable thing and give Mr. O’Neil a respectable way out. However; this action alone will change the face of Stanley forever, it will without doubt become a business and without any regard for love, affection or pride it will stand or fall by the size of the gates and the market place as all businesses do.

The greatest shame is that so much could have been, should have been and still can be achieved by taking sentiment out of the equation and marketing this club with a hard cold heart. Accrington and its people, its businesses and its council all have a role to play in the future of Accrington Stanley. The worst of it is, it is so bloody easy to do……….Basic Marketing. Cut the crap about nostalgia and stupid milk adverts….and market the connection between town and club, market what happened on that park on Friday Night both on the Pitch and in the stands.

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I agree wholeheartedly Wyn!...Like many other 'true' fans I have absolutely NO idea what the true picture of the 'fiscal' Status Quo at Accrington Stanley.F.C.Ltd is, and I don't think that I, or anyone else are going to be informed of this !..hence we are peering through an extremely opaque fog of mystery and frustration at the scenario relating to 'The Debts' and their eventual resolution !.

Neither have I, and I suspect neither have other 'ordinary' supporters, a complete picture of the exact situation relating to the relationship existing between ASFC and the ASSC !...,reading and hearing so many mixed reports, opinions , and now recriminations relating to intransigent dealings between these factions each of whom purport to have the survival of 'OUR' Club at the very forefront of their agendas !.

What I do have is a real and heartfelt longing that somebody or some agency will provide me with THE TRUTH !!...as this ongoing web of prevarication can do nothing but alienate, perhaps permanently, not only myself,and a large proportion of those who love 'The Reds' (And have given of their Hard-earned and well-saved money!) but also those who make up 'the Community' from which a new-Fanbase can hopefully be culled!!...
I'm certain that by now some Citizens of Hyndburn...and indeed the Whole Football Family will be seeing the Club as no longer an entity to be helped out of it's troubles, but as an object of derision which doesn't deserve any support !.

If this is the case then even before 'The potential Demise' of Accrington Stanley, several culpable individuals will need to hang their heads in shame at the damage that has already been done in the Hearts and minds of 'The Fans'.

I really do feel slighted by this breakdown in trust and the inability of those who are able to make an Honest Statement relating to their intentions in relation to the Salvation of 'The Club that wouldn't die '

'STANLEY'.....'WHAT ARE THEY DOING AT YOU ???'

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Can anyone confirm this ?????

Winding up order ?? does that mean hmrc just close you down or

does it mean Administration ???

BIG QUESTION ???

Any answers ??

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:) Nice post yonmon!! lets hope things will become clear over the next few days:) and we get back on track and deal with the job at hand:)

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My guess is that going by Hyde as an example, HMRC went for a winding up petition and they were put out of business. As Stanley have a winding up order against them I would think they cant go into administration and would just go out of business.

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As an Accrington lad far away from the scene, I haven't any idea about the extend of the overall situation. I do however find it incredible that the statement was issued, especially at this time. It's all been said on this thread - massive own goal against all the folk who are working so hard up there to help pay the taxman .Other clubs and their supporters must wonder if they've wasted their time. I read into it the either Mr O'N is getting his excuses in first or conversely is sure the debt can be repaid and couldn't wait to swipe at an offer he seems to resent. Reading all the great tales of unity on the terraces, why oh why did he see fit to wreck the mood and dampen spirits. As has already been said, there is no time/place for any ego stuff, even from the Chairman.

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I've kept quiet on this but I have given some hard earned cash to various collectors and fund raisers. In fact, I currently owe someone £5 in sponsorship for their efforts.

But, I don't know if I want to pay it and I certainly don't want to offer any more money to anyone else with this all going on.

Clarity is one thing - but now is the not the time for it - do all this behind closed doors and raise the money that's needed. If I'm hesitating in paying up my sponsorship, then I'm sure that other people will be thinking the same and the money will never get raised.

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Why have the 2007-2008 accounts not been lodged with Companies House ?

Why has the share transfer from Eric Whalley to DON not been lodged with Companies House ?

Why has DON's appointment as Director/Chairman not been lodged with Companies House ?

Why has Marcelle's appointment as Chairperson not been lodged with Companies House ?

Why will DON not tell everybody the extent of the Club's debts ?

Has DON got any money or did he borrow to pay Eric ?

Is the £100k he gave Eric in October 2008 to stave off the winding up order registered as a loan in the accounts ?

If he borrowed and the £100k is registered as a loan, is he going to take money from the Club when he can (when the Football League payment of £160k is paid at the end of October)

At the Fan's Forum DON told everybody that he knew the Club's financial position when he bought Eric's shares and that he had no intention of putting any money into the club, how did he expect to pay the debt ?

ASSF want to invest money into the Club not buy DON's shares from him. Buying DON's shares will not put any money into the Club but only into DON's back pocket. A share issue will put money into the Club allowing it to pay it's debts.

If only DON would tell us the whole truth and be transparent then we would all know what the true position with the Club is and we would know what we have to do to try to save it.

Come on DON tell everybody the whole truth, publish the accounts which you promised to do at the Fans Forum, let us know the true position and then let's stop squabbling.

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Never good reading....

Winding-up Petition | What is a Winding-up Petition?

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bet eric still here. i can smell a fish .

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Well done Jeff for saying what needs to be said! Hope we get some answers before it's to late! Come on O'Neil give us the whole truth!!!!

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[QUOTE=JEFF;748558]Why have the 2007-2008 accounts not been lodged with Companies House ?

Why has the share transfer from Eric Whalley to DON not been lodged with Companies House ?

Why has DON's appointment as Director/Chairman not been lodged with Companies House ?

Why has Marcelle's appointment as Chairperson not been lodged with Companies House ?

Why will DON not tell everybody the extent of the Club's debts ?

Has DON got any money or did he borrow to pay Eric ?

Is the £100k he gave Eric in October 2008 to stave off the winding up order registered as a loan in the accounts ?

If he borrowed and the £100k is registered as a loan, is he going to take money from the Club when he can (when the Football League payment of £160k is paid at the end of October)

At the Fan's Forum DON told everybody that he knew the Club's financial position when he bought Eric's shares and that he had no intention of putting any money into the club, how did he expect to pay the debt ?

ASSF want to invest money into the Club not buy DON's shares from him. Buying DON's shares will not put any money into the Club but only into DON's back pocket. A share issue will put money into the Club allowing it to pay it's debts.

If only DON would tell us the whole truth and be transparent then we wandwhat we have to do to try to save it.


Like TM Jeff, I am somewhat concerned that there quite possibly is some hidden agenda lurking somewhere between how the 'The Board' are conducting the abysmal affairs outlined in your post and the Ultimate Salvation and Survival of Accrington Stanley!.

Firstly, and quite simply, Why would any 'Business-man' worth his salt. seeing his investments and potential future profits threatened by death,
stand by and watch the demise of his organisation showing such little concern as Mr O'Neill and his Fellow Directors appear to be doing at this time of dire emergency???....surely they would be pulling their guts out (pardon the colloquialism !) for all they were worth to reverse the situation...and be seen to be doing so!!.

Secondly, and making an attempt to suggest what might be the response to. your impassioned plea for a clear, concise, honest and comprehensive statement of the overall Fiscal Situation at Accrington Stanley......

I BET THAT HE DOESN'T!!!!

Thirdly....Someone said that where opposing Factions exist....abject failure is the only possible result !!.....I've witnessed this occurrence so many times...I believe it to be mostly true...and I sincerely hope in my heart of hearts that it will not be the case at the end of October !....

Finally, and more subjectively, As a Fan of 'The Reds' for more years than I care to remember, and seeing lack of integrity lead the Club to disastrous
consequences in the past. I have never felt so dismayed and disappointed at the behaviour which is being paraded before my eyes in the media...on our Forum..and from hearing diverse and confusing commentary on the Status Quo....It's as if the apparent posturing would suggest that the demise of the Club just doesn't matter where personal and group dynamics are concerned !
and to my ageing ' yet still observant eyes, this is not what I for one expect from those who really should know better !...

Someone commented at weekend that perhaps it is a case of everyone concerned really not being bright enough to take on the mammoth task of rescuing the Club....This point was made to me somewhat Tongue-in-Cheek....Now I begin to wonder..because (in case no-one has noticed!)...
there are some rather thick individuals at large in the world of Football !...
just maybe we've got more than our share of them!!!.

I'm going on a bit!!...'QUO VADIS STANLEY '....and please survive in spite of what people are doing to you!!!

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The situation that our club finds itself in is extremely sad. My concern is that if we manage to satify the Taxman this time and with the ammount of debt and the time scale that is no easy matter, surely we can only be piling up more debt.
Cheap season tickets: a quick fix but the result is less income from now on in.
Taking the receipts from the Darlington game to pay off the debt means that the bulk of 2 weeks income ( we only get gate money 1 out of 2 weeks) meaning that another hole is being dug as we try to fill in the most pressing one.
The situation is dire but I still have a feeling that Mr Khan is not the answer, an answer that sadly through lack of facts very few of us know.

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As far as I'm concerned David O'Neill can go swivel. There would be no 'conflict' if it wasn't for his idiotic words and lies in the programme. He just expects everybody to believe his tripe and not come back with any defence because you get the attitude that's been shown in this thread, "oh don't bring any arguments, it's the last thing we need". Well NO. The club have got away with too much for too long. Maybe if we'd all been more bothered about the stuff going on behind the scenes through that champagne supernova of promotion and league football then this mess wouldn't have gotten so serious.

Members of the ASSF and Ilyas Khan are more Accrington and Accrington Stanley than David O'Neill or Eric Whalley will ever be. The utter nerve to accuse them of not being true fans... They've been slogging their guts out with all fundraising initiatives - WHAT'VE YOU DONE? It's a good job our club hasn't got the oafish minority that most other clubs do as the esteemed chairman would be lynched.

I'm not giving any more money to the club, via the SOS or whatever. No amount of money should've ever been given direct to the club anyway. It should be collected, accounted and audited independently. There is no trust.

Peed off.

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Can someone reproduce O'Neill's programme notes on here please?

Not all of us have seen them!

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Remember this Mab??....from my 'Spring Fever' Vision!!

Just how disillusioned could I have been ???.....No more predictions for me...
it's a hazardous pastime !!.

'Accrington Stanley is an entity...not a plaything to be tossed around !'

(Alfred.E.Neumann)

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" I seem to refer to the ASSF every time I write my notes and today is no different as once again the fund is homing in on the media hype that surrounds us. I will not enter a verbal crossfire in the local or national press with this group and I hope it will become obvious at some point to our fans why negotiation has not been taken to another level. It is often said that talk is cheap and sometimes to say nothing is a sign of inner strength of being totally focussed, all I will say is ASSF and Mr Khan, you had your chance to prove to our fans that the club is bigger than anyone when we were in court on the 2nd Sept, had you stepped up to the mark I would have handed you control of the club, you did nothing and would have let the club be wound up, that was the easy way out for you as everyone would just blame me, well I think it is time to either come on board and help your club that so may people are doing (unconditionally) or stay away from our limelight and let the true fans and the community of Hyndburn save the club they love"
Not sure if it's the whole thing, AndyH, but you'll get the picture!

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So can I, what was that dick Russell doing behind the bar? I will be drinking elsewhere in future.:mad::mad::mad:

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Well if Dave O'Neill is not supposed to be slagging off the ASSF and Mr Khan in local and national press, how come there is a piece in Saturdays Evening Telegraph with exactly the same words as was in the programme on Friday evening. In Mr O'Neill I do not trust. He is telling porkies!!!!

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk..._back_at_Khan/

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I do get the picture, thanks! Not pleasant reading and shows a real lack of professional judgement, effectively biting off the only hand (at the moment) who can realistically save the Club.

Really hope that the relationship between the Club and ASSF can be repaired, but I get the feeling that personal egos are getting in the way of the real issue which is saving Accrington Stanley.
For god's sake get round the table and talk to each other like grown ups and proper businessmen.

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Ilyas Khan has now stated that he will not only equal what the other directors put into the SOS fund but he will put in double what they put in in total, which means that for every £1 that O'Neill and Lazarus put into the SOS fund he will put in £2.

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so:

£80k already in the slush bucket
£90k (£18k per month x 5 months, June, July,August,Sept, October - budgeted for)
£45k Professor Glasson and ASSF donations ("in the bank they can have it back tomorrow if they wish" Daves words fans forum)

the Chairman and woman, Vice-Chair, and board of directors need to find £31k between them for Ilyas to triple the sum and the debt will be be paid in full. WE ARE SAVED!

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Here we go the screws are tightening. If the above post is correct then I feel that Mr Khan is fully aware that no one involved with the club as that sort of disposable money.( David O'Neil aside because I dont know enough about the man,) What I do know is that the remainder of the Board are decent hard working people who contribute what they can in money and more importantly time. Bill Holden as done £1,000's of work for little reward
Jon Demain spent years raising money for the club without taking penny.
Others have done what they can over many years. You cant place a figure on this type of work if you could perhaps even Mr Khan would be stretched to match it. I pray that whoever resolves the matter does so with the best intentions and allows the club to move on, Doubt it will be answered though.

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as do the Supporters Club, as do the Ultras, as do the countless other Supporters who don't operate under a banner

this is a worrying statement, I know everyone of the board members and count some as personal friends. But if they are all potless then should they really be responsible for a Football League club? Although football is a business, very few people in football (aside from players) make any money from it for one very good reason - it is a results led business. Win promotion and the good times roll., until you get in the league above and start losing again!

The high management of a football club need to have funds available for the lean times, and between them it would appear that our club does not have that luxury.

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All they need to do now is pay it to the tax man!!!! If only it was that simple. I reckon it's more like:

£80k already in the slush bucket
£90k (never budgeted for)
£45k Donations - already spent
Chairman and woman, Vice-Chair and board of directors - nothing - Ilyas will treble that which equals nothing

Total £80k so we still have to find £228k. LONG WAY FROM SAVED

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Where have you got this information from Jeff ???? :confused: :)

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Ilyas Khan

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Cheers Jeff :)

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I am around from now till 7.15pm and then later on (after 9.30pm) and will answer any questions posted on this board. Please dont send me private questions - its just too difficult to manage both a private dialogue and posting on this board.

Doug, I have read your various comments. Please go ahead now and ask me whatever is on your mind. Including any concerns you might have about my feeling for Stanley or fears that my involvement might mean a lessening of attachment to the club in "true fan" terms.

I will keep on the forum and try to be quick with my answers. as always i promise transparency and clarity. If you feel I have not answered your question, then I will try again. My only interest, now, and pretty much since 1992 when I made my first donation to the club is for the club to survive and do as well as possible.

Ilyas

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:)Evening Ilyas.. Q..what do you hope to gain from letting the ASSF using your money, if Mr ONiel lets it happen to buy new shares in a share issue

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Mr. Khan, I can understand the reasons for your holding back until now; I have no doubt that the miss judged statement from Mr. O’Neil in the Clubs Programme opens the door.

From each and every perspective I would implore all interested parties to conduct themselves with the utmost dignity and respect.

At this moment I have one simple question Mr. Khan. Are you the man to lead Accrington Stanley out of this situation and take us forward?

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Hello Mab. i dont have anything to gain. i do not believe it is possible to run, or own ASFC for "gain". this club needs the support of people who love it for what it is. On that basis, as I have said many times before, and over a period of years, I am not able to be involved in the club, and the ASSF is a good way of putting money to work for the club, and with the involvement of a wide variety of people who have the club's best interests at heart. Anyone who is interested can become part of the ASSF.

On the question of the share issue, it is no longer going to be something dictated by Mr O Neil. Unless he can put up the money, the club will have no choice but to recapitalise. All directors are legally obliged to work in the best interests of the club, and if no other alternative is available, then there will have to be a recapitalisation (or share issue). At that point i hope that the ASSF (and all fans) can become shareholders.

If i have not answered your questions, please say so, dont let this evening pass whilst you think i have misunderstood or avoided your point.

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Hello Eastern Red.....

If you/the Assf get it, whats the plan afterwards... Who is chairman? Who hires & fires? etc etc

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I have little doubt of you sincerity or you love for Accrington Stanley. In reality you are perhaps the only person who can deliver the means to take us forward.

You have on more than one occasion stated that you do not want to own or run the club; this I can understand given your position and commitment to your business; but given you means would it not be easier to have taken steps to give Mr. O’Neil a way out of his commitment to the club via a direct purchase of his and any other share holdings held by the board who aren’t prepared to reinvest and end any doubt as to the future of the club.

This would end any uncertainty and allow you to bring together the right people to take the club forward on a proper business footing.

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Doug, I am very sad to say that NO, I am not your man. I only have cash. I have responded to requests for cash from the club on many many occasions, and in many ways. Way back before Eric Whalley became chairman, I was offered the club, and I refused due to my lack of expertise, and my being a long way from Accrington.

In the recent few months, in fact from about January this year, I became aware that Mr Whalley wished to sell. He wanted £1million for his shares. I did not buy them at that share and in fact then became aware of the great debts. Later, I think in February or March, I met O Neil. I wished him well, but I was against his idea that money should be borrowed to pay off Mr Whalley. I do not believe in debt. At that time I asked Mr O Neil not to get involved unless he had the deep pockets to do so. I told him that it would be detrimental to the club and the town if he got involved without the means to see it through. Mr O Neil assured me he had the money, and on that basis I supported him. In fact you will not be aware of other cash i have given this year in addition to the £25k you are aware of. The point of what I am saying is that all I can offer is cash, and I have no expectation of profit or gain. What I hope is for discipline - hence the ASSF which could run the club.

As I say above, if this does not answer your question, please let me know. I am happy to try and expand.

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Willie. Thank you for your question. I have had this conversation on a number of occasions with Mr O Neil. As noted below, when i first met O Neil i told him he should NOT get involved with the club unless he has the cash to get on with teh job. Clearly he not only has not got the cash, but since he knew about the £300k debt when he took over, he has put us all in danger. That is worse than simply being prepared to "hire and fire".

At this point the ASSF, which has a broad array of people woudl get involved. Also, as you may recall, Bumble has kindly offered to take up the Chair if i put up the cash. He could act as interim (and much respected) chair whilst a professional CEO is hired.He is currently in South Africa, so I do not know if his past offer is still valid, but I do not think getting a professional will be a problem. the problem is CASH.

I respect your forthright views, and I am sure you will tell me if i have missed something.

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doug - my message above may have crossed with your second post at 18.25

I am prepared to buy out oneil. that is why i continue to insist on transparency. How much did he pay whalley and what were the terms. Once i know that, I can at least make an offer. I have no interest in pursuing a vendetta here. the future of the club is too precious. the problem here is that oneil took over the club and promised me he had the money to see it through, and the reason that i am so angry is that this debt, to HMRC, was known about since at least last christmas, and yet oneil played poker with our club's future.

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Hi Ilyas,
What would happen if the Chairman and the directors point blankly refused a recapitalisation. Would you allow the Club to go into admin or fold altogether? You must have seen all the hard work the supporters are putting in, but alas I feel it will fall short of the amount required, unless some big backer is found pretty quickly. I realise I am putting you on the spot, don't answer if you feel you souldn't. I feel that there is a lot more revelations to come out of the Club yet and not all good. But thats only my opinion. Thanks

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Mr O'Neill has said that he offered you the chance to step in once he realised the gravity of the appearance at the High Court. At the time, he said let the judge know that you have the funds to pay off the bill & we will sort the share issue out on my return to Accrington? Truth or falsehood.

Also, if Eric wanted out & you wouldn't buy it. Surely, we should be happy that Mr O'Neill stepped in ? Presuming no owner/no club?

Thirdly, what is stopping all these issues being sorted out properly & businesslike around a boardroom table? Seems to me, at the mo, fans are being asked to choose sides & its impossible. Ultras are just fund raising like mad & being congratulated on one half of the support & ridiculed by others as for being "used".

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:)Thankyou Ilyas you've answered my question and the futures looking BRIGHT already :)

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Hello Tommy. good evening to you - have we met ? I am sorry, but I know most of the people on this forum, but in your case I cant recall, so forgive me for that.

your question is absolutely spot on. Right now, I believe that the directors MUST take all steps to avoid trading illegally. This means that if they turn down the recapitalisation, they must have an alternative. Right now, I believe that the directors must assume they are not trading insolvently (a technical term) as they believe there must be alternatives.

also, I totally agree that there are other revelations yet to be made. Just by way of example, why have the new directors still not appeared on the official register at companies' house ? also, as we know, PAYE has not been paid for some time, and if £300k is the historic debt, what is the actual debt ?

finally, Tommy, I have offered Oneil a route out. If they dont want a share issue, then I will match his cash in the form of a donation. I believe that in trying times, we must put the club first, and I have compromised by saying that I will match the director's commitment. Over the years I have put much more money into the club than Oneil, but I dont therefore simply say "no more". If O neil puts more into the club, I will match him, and on the same conditions.

by the way, in that famous friday programme note, he tells people to "give" unconditionally. I note he has not made any donation unconditionally at this critical point. Every penny counts, and I am sure we would all take great pleasure and comfort if directors matched the efforts of supporters. Ms Lazarus and O neil should lead the way and put up cash at this critical stage.

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Yes we have met many years ago in John Alty's day. Thanks for the reply, I don't think that there will be much funding forthcoming from the directors, I would not think any of them have spare cash to throw at the Club. You have reasured me that the Club will not fold. I don.'t think I could go through another 1962.

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Willie. I assume that some of your last post at 18.41 has been answered ? however i will quickly address the points again - for the avoidance of doubt.

firstly, at no time did anyone at the club ever offer to hand over control. In fact if you see the ASSF statement today, you will see the way things progressed. In fact it is due to the ASSF letter that the court actually eased away from summary insolvency. I also can confirm that Oneil was utterly opposed to any capital that meant he would lose control and when I told him he was putting himself above the interests of the club, and that no one is bigger than the club, he refused to acknowledge our offer. As i say, the statement from ASSF could not be clearer, and many more people were involved in addition to me or oneil.

also, just to reiterate, I supported oneil's purchase. I turned down eric's offer of £1million for his shares, and my only concern when oneil took over was to tell him, in no uncertain terms, that running football clubs in league 2 is not a "business" and he shoudl only do so if he had the means to see it through.

On your last point, i must say that you better ask oneil. I did not write that programme note on friday. also his emails to me and his comments to others have all been one-way traffic. From my standpoint i have noted your comments on this board that have been negative towards me, as indeed are your current questions. I continue to believe, however, that I shoudl reply and be transparent. Again, if i have missed your point, say so, and i will continue to try to address your concerns.

finallly, my ONLY interest is the future of our club. I am from accrington. this is my home. the first thing i tell people when we meet, is that i am from accy. I have nothing to prove in this regard, so if you, or others dont know "where i am coming from" then you really are trying too hard to see theories where they dont exist. Right now I am not aware of anyone else. Thats right NO ONE ELSE has stepped up at this critical time. Please tell me if you think my interest is somehow in bad faith, since that is what you seem to imply. forgive me if i am wrong.

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I apologise if any comments appeared negative, on the contrary, I posted a pic of you at Harrogate in the hope that fans would remember how long & how passionate you have been a supporter. I think I did post saying that who is better a millionaire with pocket change to spend or a steward who gives his wage back. And I still stand by that! :)

I care not if I am truly honest about who runs the club as long at is is run in a way that supporters can feel proud. I have no interest in much of the "guts" of the debate. It just seems we are being herded into forming opinions of a "good side" and a "bad side"......

It is though, at the mo, a shambles....

On the basis of theories, unfortunately, folk are sceptical that any business man would just effectively "give" away £250k for nothing (business wise).

However, as a last point, the more I listen to you & the ASSF, the more I think we are being shafted & "used"...........

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Hi ilyas, im finding like many others whom wasnt able to attend the original meeting regarding assf, i havent met u personally so cannot formulate an opinion, tho have met DOn a few so have more idea what he is about. My main worry is that im unsure of your intentions should u aquire the share holding majority? How would the running of the club or by whom would u appoint? How would u or the assf change the future of the club & what would change or improve? What will be improved than previous chairs by your/ASSF takeover ? As from a small business point of view would u or assf utilise our local businesses would it be 2 way? Sorry lots of Q's :o

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I agree with this view.

As far as the winding up order and the club. If O'Neill wasnt to sell to ASSF or anyone for that matter, what you the high court rule ?. Would it be that
they can forsee the sale to someone willing to takeover with the best intrests at heart or just to let the club crash and burn.

Could someone also explain what assets the club has except the staff, and club name.

Regards

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I read at length the Hyde United one, they HAD been wound up but could appeal the decision within 7 days, However to appeal they had to prove solvency... £35k they thought would do it....

therefore, i would presume that if the judge could see a viable alternative then we will be okay....:o:o

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Taking the points you raise in the latter part of post 80.

I am from Accy and proud of it; like you I tell everyone I meet and I tell of my pride in the Club, for which I often face ridicule, but it as never dented my pride or belief in the club or the town. I’ve been over here for 30 odd years. So I along with many other will know what drives you in that respect.

In respect of negative comments and I’m sure I’ve made a few, I don’t know you, we have never met and I can only take you and Mr. O’Neil at face value. The recent posts I have made have been reactive; probing for a response from one or other of you; desperately hoping that one of you would step forward and resolve this issue once and for all…..I was two young to feel the effect of 62, but I was scared by the effect it had on my grandfather and it as stayed with me throughout my life.

Mr. Khan, cash, love, affection and pride will not sustain Accrington Stanley alone; it needs to become a business first and it needs to be developed in partnership with the town. There is no shortage of Pride, Love or Affection, it’s in all of us now…..but the cash aspect is troubling, just how much will be needed to get us to that first stage, becoming a sustainable business and are you prepared to keep on donating funds until it can stand on it’s own two feet…

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I hope the share issue happens I will gladly put some money into the club if I knew what was happening with the money as would most people or fans. I think its the only way forward to involve as many people as possible and for them to feel its their team in more ways than name alone.

Good luck Ilyas I hope your successful in your aims involving the club to me your the only honest and credible person in this whole affair.

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I sincerley hope this is the case. The rumours of a man coming in and offering Bob Lord the money when they old Stanley went spring to mind horrifically.

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Mr Khan I was at the meeting when the ASSF was thought up and you came across as a genuine person who answered questions to best of your ability. You may be aware that there is a growing undercurrent that O'Neill is just a puppet and Whalley is still pulling the strings hense his reluctance to deal with yourself and the ASSF, do you think this is possible?

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Think the biggest problem Ilyas is i have is that i havent met u to formulate the opinion nor is sure of your & the assf's intentions as far as the future of asfc is concerned, many a bad chairman has been & gone....well former one still hangs around that worries me more on a serious note. How would u or the assf run the club differently on all levels?

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It does need love & affection Doug but also needs a chairman & co to know how to run a league club 1st & financially is foremost, something which has elluded our chairmen in our history!!

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Quite a few posts to be answered whilst i was away. I have two boys, and 18 month old, and a 4 year old, and their bath time waited on me, and then i put my youngest to bed. So apologies for the slight delay. i will deal with the questions that came whilst I was away in the order i see them on the bulletin board.

Willie - thanks for your first reply and also for the clarification. I note that there are two points to be addressed. Firstly, being open and available on any bulletin board carries a certain amount of risk, and one of them is to be open to being misunderstood. I apologise therefore if i misunderstood you. On your other point, about not understanding why someone would give away £250k as a "businessman" I can only repeat that my actions, not my words, should be judged. I have given away to many accrington causes in the past, and all for no gain or profit. God has been good to me and my family, and i am simply giving back to the community in as best a way as i can. Over the past couple of years alone, Moorhead school, accy cricket club, the ladies footy team and stanley are just some of the examples, and I hope to continue if possible. Perhaps its my way of saying thank you to a town that I love and to which I owe so much. Accrington was a lovely place to grow up. A lot of people still remember my mam and pa, and no matter what goes on, its home. I hope this is something you will understand.

this current spat with oneil was started on friday when he personally attacked me and lay himself open to this response. My intentions now are to be transparent and allow people to judge for themselves as facts emerge.

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Madam.....:) I didn't say it didn't, what I said was:

"cash, love, affection and pride will not sustain Accrington Stanley alone; it needs to become a business first and it needs to be developed in partnership with the town. There is no shortage of Pride, Love or Affection, it’s in all of us now…..but the cash aspect is troubling, just how much will be needed to get us to that first stage, becoming a sustainable business and are you prepared to keep on donating funds until it can stand on it’s own two feet"


I may have miss read that Mel.......

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[quote=Stanleymad;748696]needs a chairman & co to know how to run a league club quote]

I would suggest that Eric knew how to run a League Club, because he did it for 3 years. Whether he did it well, that is for individuals to judge. But the staff that are still there know how to run a League Club...

What we need now is some one to run it better, to stop fans drifting away, to increase revenue, to increase media coverage, etc etc

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One word that seems to keep cropping up in this thread and others is Transparency.

I fully appreciate that in this situation, we have two sides, supposedly fighting to help the same cause, The wolf that's baying at the door, in the form of the taxman / H.M.R.C.

Firstly, I commend Mr. Khan on his efforts to answer questions on this messageboard.

Sadly however it seems that the club does not appear to be as forthright in comming forward in keeping the fans informed of the events that are transpiring,or the true extent of the financial problem (s??) that threaten the very existense of our club.I'm not going to say what I think of what Mr. O' Neil posted in his programme notes,nor comment about the ASSF's response to the matter.

The only observation I would make on this matter, it's a little bit like two parties pulling a rope, in opposite directions. The result being we get no-where.

I'm concerned to point of, whilst the clock that is ticking towards the deadline day, when the taxman expects his money, the thermometer showing the fundraising efforts seems to have slowed to a trickle of money every couple of days....

At the present rate, If you take out of the equation the Burnley fundraiser which supposedly raised in the region of £40K, The money raised by other events, bucket collections, fundraising events etc, only equates to the same figure raised in nigh on 3 weeks. I always knew raising £308K in 8 weeks would be a somewhat gargantuan task relating to a club of our size, but if you do the maths...at present rate fundraising alone will not keep the wolf from the door.

Now is the time for "Transparency" so to speak. Both parties in this matter need to wake up, smell the roses and start pulling in the same direction. This wolf at the door will not go away, As it didn't in '62. It won't settle for part payment or excuses, It wants it's money, IN FULL..... or face the consequences. End of.

To Mr. Khan, I recall on a previous thread, that as a shareholder holding some sway on matters at boardroom level you had the power to instigate some sort of " extra-ordinary meeting " If that still is indeed the case, at what point do you plan to impose such a measure??? At this point what measure (s) will the ASSF push for..?

To the board....an appeal for common sense and the need for that elusive word " transparency" Don't keep us, the fans, the lifeblood of this club in the dark. Alienate the very people who help to pay the wages at the club and where does that get us???

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stanley mad. No problem with your questions. I am sure i would have the same issues if i were in your shoes. I hope some of the posts above have already clarified some of the points you raise. However, I would point out that the current mob in charge may well have a day to day control of management, but of course the cost has been huge. The club is on the point of disappearing. So the priority right now is to get cash into the club, not to worry about who will close the lights etc. However, I also know that all fans want clarity, and I simply restate that ASSF was set up precisely in order for the club to have continuity after the cash came on board. If you want, why not join the ASSF ? or go to the next meeting ? I dont pretend that they have all the people that will be needed, but the personnel are no worse than the current people in charge, and they are all loyal, long standing fans, with a professional background. If ASSF became a majority owner of the club, it will be in at least as safe hands in management terms as any time in the past. I reiterate, I wont be on the board or chairman. My interest, now as in the past, is to help provide cash if i have the means to do so.

By the way, my other fear is that the total debts are much more than £300k, so lets hope that others join in taking up shares through ASSF.

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[quote=Willie Miller;748701]If thats the case we wouldnt be in the mess we are in now :confused::rolleyes: Wages werent paid on time as werent other cheques & bills - the apparent deal with the taxman stems back to 2006 - whilst eric was in charge & now don is picking up the tab...or should rephase we are. Things have improved but then again still many people/customers levi-ing a critical view of the way the club was & still is to a point.

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nickleson, i think you have answered your own question. I really cant see a winding up order (I hope and pray i am not wrong) since the club's directors have no alternative but to accept financing in the event of their being no alternative. One way or 'tother, our club should not, and will not, go down !

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I didnt ....i was mearely adding to your point doug :D:D

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Thanks Ilyas i may do that should i be free when that meeting takes place & do admit i need to see both sides of the coin - tho to put it bluntly my bottom is firmly sat on the fence, holding onto to the hope that the club overcomes this & mass improvements are made, like the stuff im seeing on the ptich atm, i dont want to lose my team:D

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doug and bagpuss - in that order if i may.

doug, i am afraid stanley is not a business. It might well become one in due course, but for the past many years, and right now, its not. the biggest issue is that there is no budget for players. the main reason i keep banging on about a share issue is that it is the only way to ensure we have enough in the bank to give the manager some cash to buy players, and then, by being successful, attract crowds and sponsorship, to become bigger. i agree it SHOULD be a business, but right now, that is not the case. Of course, it can get more solvent, but it requires fresh and significant capital.

bagpuss - i have heard many things, and i would not be surprised to hear that mr whalley is still involved. however, right now, i dont care who is involved, i just want to avoid bankruptcy. I have, as you know, asked for transparency, and i do not know whaty oneil will not answer the simple question about the share transfer. You will recall in June he said that the transfer is "a matter of a few days". Well, we are still waiting. I am sure there is an answer, but i have not recieved one, neither has the club or the town.