community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

Colleagues, Friends,

With the new season well and truly underway I wanted to use this bulletin board as a way to invite fans and members of the broader community to a meeting in Accrington that I hope to set up in early September with the express purpose of advancing the concept of community and fan ownership of ASFC.

This is a direct follow up to my commitment, made earlier in the summer, during the bulletin board conversation about ground and infrastructure development. At that time I promised to get back with more detail and more momentum that I felt could benefit the town and the club, and I also promised at that time to try and be as inclusive as possible in these conversations so that anyone who felt they wished to contribute could do so.

By way of introduction I would make the following points:

1. One of the reasons for this message is that I hope we can set up a time that maximises the attendance of as many people as possible. In the past we have set up meetings, and then informed people, only to find large numbers unable to attend. Hopefully the use of this wonderful bulletin board will allow people to come back to me (PM me or direct response on the board) with suggestions on when and where we hold the meeting.

2. Its important to have an inclusive and transparent agenda. I hope that through this bulletin board we can come up with suggestions for agenda items that then mean our final agenda will be meaningful and will benefit from input from a wide variety of people.

3. I hope to invite the club's auditors, Pierce, to attend. If we are to be serious in our hope of creating a long term sustainable club that works with and for the community, then it will take professional structuring.

4. The ownership of the club is very different from management. I would like to request that we focus our meeting on the subject of community and fan based ownership, and then also extend to governance (transparency, accountability, sustainability). Only thereafter can we credibly address the issue of long term management.

As you know, my view is that ASFC belongs to the community. With the events of the past few years behind us, I hope I am not wrong in hoping that we can blaze a new trail and who knows, even a new model. The club needs the support of the broadest widest constituency of people in this area. If we are to get better crowds and more sponsorship, then we must restructure from the top.

I close by highlighting the obvious. Its possible none of this will lead anywhere and we must manage our expectations, however each journey starts with a first step, and I hope you will agree that our club has now got to the stage where an issue of this magnitude and importance can be debated with a positive attitude and with as inclusive a participation as possible. It also helps that I have been able, in the past few months, to acquire a greater working knowledge of the dynamics of the club's operations as well as seeing how different models work overseas.

I do hope that the current management of the club in the form of Mr Heys and Mr O'Neil might come along as well, but this initiative is entirely personal to me, though benefitting, as you would expect, from conversations with lots of people.

More to come on this.

In the meantime can i request that we try and limit our conversation to this board and not by PM unless you absolutely feel you need to chat direct. as always my email address ilyas.khan and my mobile is 07826 600600. i will always try to answer calls and reply to emails. Be aware i am still in Asia till next weds.

Ilyas

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

Ilyas

As always THANK YOU, and what a FANtastic vision for OUR club:)

See you at the Macc game

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

Nice one Ilyas - looking forward to this meeting. As you're back for the Macc game, I trust you will also be here for the Carling cup vs Newcastle?

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

Stanley are lucky to have a man like Ilyas in their corner, with just the interests of the club and its fans at heart

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

Jaysay - Your best quote ever:alright::alright:

.............& so true :D:D A big Thank you Ilyas :thumbsup:

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

Ilyas, thanks again for all you have done for this small but mighty club. Early September for a meeting is good for me as I am on holidays until the 20th and only going up to Northumberland for part of this, hopefully then I will make the meeting.

PS I am not a secret Geordie in disguise, I am going to see my grandchildren who live 18 miles north of Newcastle so no connections please.

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

Am still having palpitations at the prospect of Newcastle Utd but this suggestion can't be forgotten/ignored/lost in all the euphoria over the next couple of weeks. It's vital the ownership of the club is secured by and for all its fans and, if Ilyas and others can achieve this, it will be a bigger result than beating the Geordie Giants..

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

What a vision!! I will attend on any date/time, like the Newcastle game, I wouldn't miss it for the world!!!!

Thanks again Ilyas.

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

In or out of the country Ilyas as Accrington Stanley at heart , without him we would not be here today. A meeting , brilliant, venue ,well how about Accrington town hall ? or a school hall, depends on how many people attend.

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

the town hall or a school or church hall sounds like a great idea if we get the numbers of people who wish to attend.

if people have ideas about the matters that should consitute and make up an agenda or discussion points, please do let me know. i have some email traffic already (thanks a lot) so i understand that some of you may wish to conduct that part of the conversation bliaterally rather than on a discussion board. i am very comfortable with that, but would continue to advocate this bulletin board since it has a remarkable way of ensuring transparency (both of intent and action).

i will come back with some ideas on the agenda, and some sense of dates that seem to fit later on next week.

Also, Ultras and official fan club - please think of yourselves as a part of this process. For all kinds of reasons you are critical to the success and future of the club.

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

Im sure the supporters club members will be interested, myself will be present once its set. Like back in November im sure every stanley fan from any denomination, we all [osc, assf, ultras, accyweb & general stanley fans or members of the public - even other footy fans] be it will be keen to see our towns club move forward for its longevity:D

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

well if the dates ok, fine wi me.:) may be n idea, if not already one? fer ya to contact local rags, once a date is sorted?:)

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

Accy mad, in so many ways i think this is very exciting - the debate about football club ownership and sustainability outside the exalted sphere of the top premiership clubs, has been quite intense. I am hoping that we might be able to show that a small but proud and determined club in the North West, the true home of football, can re-cast itself.

i know there are risks here, and i know there will be people who dont like the idea of a club not having an "owner", but the long term benefits to our town and community are immense. fortune favours the brave, or, as a yonmon will attest, action begets action. Inaction begets sloth.

i think we ought to really go for it, but in a systematic and clear sighted way. putting ownership and governance to one side, and then hiring decent day to day management is the key in my view. Having lived through the past few months, I dont think we have an alternative.

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

The upstairs room at Bold Street Club is always available

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

jeff, how many could that hold comfortably with seating ? thanks

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

Probably about 100 seated and room for another 30-40 standing

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

All very commendable but before we own the club the person who currently owns it needs to be willing to sell. Who at this moment in time owns ASFC, by own I mean in who's name are the majority of the shares registered.

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

Haven't been in there since I saw The Strawbs in about 1969.
I don't suppose, purely in the interests of historical consistency, there's a room in Stanley Street available?

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

as soon as a premiership club is taken over by fans, the whole league will be attracted to the idea and it will blossom.

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

i've got to say that i agree with Long Time Red, the idea of US owning the club is very appealing, but the person who owns ASFC (or 51% + whatever is 'left over' from the share issue shambles) was unwilling to lend ears to the proposals made by ASSF when the club was practically dead in the water. Why would that change now that the club is in far calmer waters?

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

Don't 'they' own 51% of a club indebted to Ilyas? Until they grace his palm with a lllllllot of cash, they have to listen, right?

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

< shrugs shoulders in wild abandonment >


on the positive side though, it is blatantly obvious that until the spectre of EW is banished from such conversations surrounding 'ownership' then the wider public of Accrington appear not to give a rats' about the club. The same could be said (to a lesser extent) about O'Neil.

The club had been measured up for its coffin this time last year, the townsfolk coughed up next to nothing towards its saving.

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

hello Long time red and macca. sorry for the odd and delayed times for replying. i am still out in Hong Kong, and whilst you are snug as bugs in your slumberland duvets its bright mid morning here. I will be back next week, so there will continue to be odd times for replies till then - and its certainly not that i am ignoring you.

On the question of ownership you may have missed or not grasped the import of earlier bulletin board conversations on this precise topic.

However there is absolutely no impediment to the fans and community owning the vast majority of the shares. As a company that has many shareholders and many shares outstanding ASFC has no actual owner at present. In the past, whoever owned 5!% of the club tended to end up calling himself the "owner", which is both factually and legally incorrect. However, that is by the by, and i think that unless the "owner" has the capacity to both fund and bank roll the place as well as be qualified to manage on a professional basis, the end result is always disasterous. combining those two qualities is almost never possible. If you look at somewhere such as Chelsea, where only 1 person owns the club and all the shares, that person (abrahamovich), he also delegates the day to day running of the club to professionals (very highly paid professionals). There are more direct comparables in the lower divisions as well, but my view is still that its very rare for someone to have both the financial wherewithal as well as the requisite professional skills to run a club and make all the decisions.

Turning now to ASFC. There is no legal or other impediment to the club issuing as many shares as necessary to whoever it deems fit. for example if there are 100,000 shares currently outstanding, then it is a matter of record that either Mr Whalley or Mr O'Neil owns 51% of them. Certainly Mr O'Neil has claimed to own these shares for a long time, but no transfer has taken place to my knowledge. I have taken Mr O Neil at face value and I Have not been too bothered by the underlying facts since ownership of approx 51,000 shares is utterly and absolutely meaningless at ASFC right now. As someone pointed out, the documented creditors are the ones who control the club, and for a while last year that was HMRC !

Going forward I hope top achieve a wide ranging discussion about the structure and parameters that are important for ASFC with respect to community and fan based ownership. I certainly dont have all the answers, but I do have a determination to try and create a long term solution. The benefit of a public discussion that allows all of us to participate is that we have a chance to listen and learn from all differnent opinions. If we then build on that, and a community owned club can be created, then there is absolutely no impediment, and sufficient shares will be created to give that group the majority ownership.

There were many bulletin board regulars present at the last official shareholder meeting where a resolution to approve an increase in authorised share capital was passed unanimously, and i cant recall the figures, but that resolution (which is a matter of public record and therefore tansparent) is one of the route markers that allows us to have this discussion.

i hope this clarifies. as always shout loudly if you disagree or dont understand. i will try again. Its important we have this discussion in as open a manner as possible and i will do my bit.

Ilyas


Turning to your question

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

£200,000 Spings to mind Ilyas!!! :)

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

valarian are you in Hong Kong ?

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

Ilyas I'm fairly sure Valarian is in the UK!!

I also recall that the additional share capital voted on was an additional £200K to be used at the discression of the Directors.

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

What historical consistency do you mean ?

If you check the Club's history you will find that the present club was formed 'after a meeting at Bold Street Working Mens Club' and as far as I know the original Club was formed at the Stanley Arms, which has been closed for a long time now.

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

No, just got up early!!!! :)

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Because we don't have a winding up order from HMRC, which values the club much more highly and he could possibly get a return.

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

Here we go.... where's my tin hat. :)

I can understand the broad view of ownership of the club and the fact that no one individual can claim ownership even under a majority of 51%. But it sticks in my mind that those individuals who do hold the shares; by definition collectively own the club, and this is where I feel that this vision (and not a bad one) of community/fan ownership falls down.

How is a transfer of ownership to the community/fan base occur? are the current share holders expected to donate their shares to the community/fans or is it envisaged that funds will be raised to purchase them.

My biggest concern is the same old dog from last year; where is inward investment going to come from, there is a certain truth from last year we can't disguise from anyone not lease ourselves; we collectively couldn't save our own club with a the help of half the county; had it not been for Ilyas and Peter Marsden we wouldn't be having this conversation.


Ilyas; would you consider promoting/investing into a consortium of local business with a view of purchasing the club on behalf of the Community of Hyndburn

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

hahah quality joe! love it!

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

Doug, your questions, in my view, have been answered on this bulletin board by me, and the substance of your query was addressed during the last bulletin board conversation which is the jumping off point for this current initiative.

However, I do believe that at times repetition is a great way of ensuring greater clarity, and I absolutely believe that any and all concerns should be collected so that constructive and positive proposals can be pulled together and debated. It goes without saying that whatever we finally decide to do for the best interests of ASFC might include or exclude suggestions made by lots of people, who may then be somewhat concerned, but of course that is also the best way to build a consensus that can be sustained.

Turning to your specific questions, the first point is that the club has no value in its equity right now. there is not a valuer, auditor, professional financier who could or would assign value to the equity of ASFC. In fact if the current club were worth £1, that would be overvalued by at least 99p.

That is different to saying that the club is of immense value to those of us who care, and therein lies the opportunity and the answer to many of your questions.

In substance - therefore - yes, the majority ownership would be transferred across to whatever entity we decide to pull together and that can be created. I dont expect that entity to be well endowed, so any "payment" might either be nominal or long term structured. To my mind that is absolutely the wrong thing to be focused on since it occupies less than 0.0001% of the agenda.

The key is something so many people on this board have mentioned. That a change of structure would attract bigger crowds and more local business sponsorship. More revenue is the same as more capital.

And finally, i would respectfully draw your attention to the thread regarding a new instrastructure. In puttling together a full restructuring of our club, not only local businessmen, but fans and members of the community would join together. That is what creates sustainability, and in turn, that is what promotes fair and good governance.

I hope this is at least a partial answer. I would encourage you to collect your thoughts and make sure you raise them at the meeting where others can also contribute either to sharing your concerns, or coming up with constructive and positive answers.

thanks
Ilyas

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

This is the key thing in all of this IMHO, it is not about You or anybody else "Throwing money at it", we/the club, needs to - as you have also pointed out - become self funding, by bigger gates and things like ground sponsors! I know this will not happen over night, but it must start to happen soon!!

On another note Ilyas, will we be seeing you screaming Stanley on against Newcastle??? :) :)

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

I said to myself a few months ago that this season I would concentrate on the football side of Stanley because that is what gives me a buzz. No more arguing the toss and being petty over things I cannot change but I have to comment that Rob has hit the nail on the head and until it's sorted we cannot progress.:(

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

I agree with the above and have had enough of all the 'talk'. I said I wouldn't return till it was sorted but will be there against Newcastle with the Wife. :drunk:

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

Iylas,
its estimated the club will bring in between £180k - £250k from the Newcastle game and the various extra revenue streams (higher ticket prices, merchandise, hospitality, etc).

What assurances can we as the fan base have, that all the extra revenue will stay in the club and be used on the club?

The question is not really directed as you, but more the current duo who run the show.

However, as you are the only person I know who has a foot in each camp (and by that I mean you are in contact with the powers that be), I wonder if you could suggest to O'neill/Heys some transparency, honesty and openess may improve their standing with the fan base.

Re: community and fan ownership of Accrington Stanley
 

[quote=DAV007;837360]Iylas,
its estimated the club will bring in between £180k - £250k from the Newcastle game and the various extra revenue streams (higher ticket prices, merchandise, hospitality, etc).

What assurances can we as the fan base have, that all the extra revenue will stay in the club and be used on the club?

The question is not really directed as you, but more the current duo who run the show.

However, as you are the only person I know who has a foot in each camp (and by that I mean you are in contact with the powers that be), I wonder if you could suggest to O'neill/Heys some transparency, honesty and openess may improve their standing with the fan base.


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