Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

The thing is MCR the fact the ultras remain on the ground singing etc, makes the polices job easier, the away fans can be got back to the transport safely n there too bloody stupid to appreciate that fact.

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

"Lets wait for the truth to out before prevaricating the whole situation. Everything that has been posted on this subject is only hearsay not fact."

You also suggested someone should have "Waded" into the Newcastle Fans, did you not.

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

theres oer 100 posts on this who are ya refering too? seem to remember someone making a sarcastic comment on the fact newcastle fans were throwing tennis balls on the pitch, ya been around accyweb 5 yrs did ya not recognize it as such?

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

not everything is hearsay i have spoken to both danny and jase

and the fact i was attacked by the police after a steward allowed me back in the stand to remove a flag is not hearsay either

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

Sorry about that Cashy, It is Outback Ossy I am refering to, and quoting a few of his posts over the last couple of days.

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

I was unaware of all this until I came home today and read about it in these threads.

Presumably a defending solicitor will be able to call as defence witnesses many of those who did see what happened and have commented in this thread.

As an aside, I would like to know why it was deemed necessary to compel fans to walk through a police line in Livingstone Road.

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

disgusted as to what happened last night chatting with a ange tonight and she said that she saw jase in the crown car park so when he arrested?

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

Jase was arrested straight after the game when we went to see why Danny was being arrested, That's when the Police went completely over the top and started throwing people around, threatening people with Baton's etc. I even saw one young lad get dragged over 2 rows of seats by his hair for christs sake ! Ridiculous.

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk...type=highlight


Today's Lancashire Telegraph says....

"The arrest of a teenager after full-time for allegedly throwing a till roll onto the playing surface sparked an incident described by officers as ‘hostile’."

AND... in justification ?.

"A spokesman from Lancashire police said: "The match had been a wonderful occasion with the majority of fans in really good spirits, which became marred by a small group of people becoming hostile towards the police following the arrest of a man for an earlier incident."(quote).

However, it still appears that those responsible for Safety and Security at Accrington Stanley choose to remain silent regarding their role in the construction of a mini-Police State at the ground on Wednesday evening !..Would a timely word or two from our CEO, 'stepping up to the plate ',possibly put an end to all the gossip and rumours which are being spoken and printed and exacerbating this worrying situation. ?..
or is this ezpecting too much ?.

Like many, I remain sad and disappointed that our Club
cannot protect it's Supporters without condoning the use of physical violence towards them !.

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

Were there till rolls thrown onto the field of play during the match (some aimed @ Krul) - Yes
Therefore if the person arrested @ end of match is guilty of such then yes he should be charged.
When Jase was arrested did a group of 20 or 30 run towards the police/stewards - Yes
Therefore this could be deemed as hostile.
Could the club be fined for failing to control the crowd (again the throwing incident) - Quite a possibility
Therefore can i ask what you are expecting the club to come out and say publically regarding the incidents. Until all facts are looked @ there's not a great deal they can do. It all started because someone pushed it too far with throwing the till rolls which is an offence and therefore someone was arrested then it all banked rolled from there.
Over reaction from police/stewards - Yes definatley but it did all start with someone commiting an offence

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

I've signed up on Facebook

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

Taken from the Football League Ground Regulations

The following acts are arrestable offences under the Football (Offences) Act 1991 (as amended) and conviction may result in a Banning Order being made.

The throwing of any object within the Ground without lawful authority or excuse

Under the Sporting Events (Control of Alcohol etc) Act 1985 (as amended) the following are offences for which a person can be arrested by a police officer and conviction could result in a Banning Order being made.

Attempting to enter the ground or being inside the ground whilst drunk

At all times whilst present inside the ground persons must comply with any and all instructions of any steward or officer of the Club and/or any police officer. Failure to comply with any instruction may lead to immediate ejection from the ground

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

CEF !..Of course, I am not expecting to hear a statement which will by it's nature incriminate the Club in any way, realising, as do we all, that once it is unleashed the long arm of the law has to follow it's alotted course, and any interference with this is, to say the least, frowned-upon !.

However, the point I was attempting to make, and I apologise for repeating myself (again!), was simply that
snippets of information, gossip, innuendo, and sinister whispers in local Newspapers, will do lttle to mollify the almost Anti-Club feelings that one can sense from this Forum, and from personal contacts, and that some recognition of this by the Officers (not Police!) at The Crown in a short statement would not be out of place !.

Keep posting !!.


.

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

If you must quote me, then at least have the decency to spell my username correctly. Also had you continued to read the thread on which you are posting you will also note I have joined the Facebook group re the SU 2. Finally, I think you should also note that Katei77 corrected me prior to you piping up and making statements referring to me. Whilst this is a public forum and you may quote me why don't you say what YOU mean yourself. Oh and by the way, I may have used the term 'wade' loosely, but in reality, is throwing tennis balls on to the field of play whilst play is in action not just as illegal as throwing loo roll or till roll from the 'Clayton End'??? So why did no one approach the Newcastle fans in the Whinney Hill terrace, there were enough stewards and police spotters in the ground?

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

That stunned me wasnt expecting that, was walking thro with cashy, wyn etc with FRIENDLY newky fans too & was met with that line & thought wtf:confused:

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

Because the tennis balls were thrown from BEHIND the Whinney Hill - outside the ground

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

Not from where I was standing they weren't, and where has this information come from?

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

I stand corrected, my partner in crime has just pointed out that they were thrown from outside the ground and I apologise for this error.

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

Yonmon - sorry i'm just not getting it. I still don't get what you want from the club H & S will say fans throwing till rolls onto pitch after game started are commiting an offence and could lead to injury therefore police are correct in arresting those responsible.
The police and stewards did over react but if 20/30 people are running towards you many F ing and blinding and quite a few drunk what alternative are they gonna do. When someone is coming towards you, you automatically go on the defensive ( i do not condone some of what has been done towards some of the fans) - again the club won't comment on these actions.
Yes quite a few are guessing and gossiping about what went on but what are the club supposed to do to stop it.
All they can say is that said incidents took place on Wednesday night and we are looking into it. They can't come out and say publically that they back Jase (and thats what alot of posters seem to be getting at) because IF he has done anything deemed illegal then the club we seem to be are condoning it. How is that going to stop the gossip? or ill feeling being thrown at the club.

Sorry but you are going to have to literally spell it out to me :)

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

its all well and good pointing out ground rules etc but they count for nowt when stewards start throwing punches. Eject people by all means, and no-one is above the law, but it doesn't take 4 people and headlocks to do that. People WILL ALWAYS stand by their friends and family when undue violence is shown.

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

[quote=Outback Ozzy;840727]Oh and by the way, I may have used the term 'wade' loosely, quote]


Funny how we all read it differently, I thought it was a pun with reference to Virginia Wade :D

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

i agree n ya don't need to have had a drink to not tolerate that, cos i can't drink n i sure as hell wouldn't tolerate it, n whilst i understand how little the club are able to say, theres nowt in my mind that says they cannot comment on what if any investigation they are making into the actions of SOME of the louts brought in as temporary stewards.:rolleyes:

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

yes the threat of jase n danny be banned is something we have to fight after everything jase and su have done for the club we can not just sit back....the display on wed wouldnt of happened without them both jase and danny put in the hrs preparing the display along with other members of su

but this is not just about their ban its about how we fans were treated as a whole

the events where i was attacked by a police officer while a steward was allowing me pass should not of happened nor should a police officer refuse to assit a 16yr old lad when he has be kicked by a police horse refusing to even look at his injuries and telling another fan to call 999 he wouldnt the police officers words were"its a horse it can do what it likes"

yes the fight to stop the ban is top but it also the way other fans were treated i am sure i was not the only one who was treated unfairly

as the title says FANS NOT CRIMINALS

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

It is a good job you where not in the control room, can you imagine the carnage if you had given the order to "Wade" into a stand full of innocent Geordies:eek:.

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

Jase - good luck, mate. If you need any character-witness type support, you know where we are!


Your Morecambe mates.

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

Yonman thanks for clearing it up even managed to answer my own question :) To be honest i don't think it would placate some of the fans.
There are obviously 2 issues that need to be addressed and i have a feeling i may upset 1 or 2 people i apologise in advance

1 The arrests - it may not count for much what Jase and Danny have done for Stanley in the past and yes they have done a fantastic amount but If they are deemed to have broken any laws with regards to entering a football match then they will be punished. Whether that will be a ban or not remains to be seen! The club may not be able to do much yes they can send character references but if Mr Judge on the day is that way out then it might not make any difference and it's all well and good saying 1st offense etc sometimes football laws/rules do not take this into account apparently it seems all football fans are a completely different species to the rest of the human race!! In this day and age unfortunately previous good character does not seem to count for much. I am hoping that bans are not enforced as Jase seems to be the life and soul of the Clayton End :)

The Stewards/Police - SOME not all have overacted and each individual that has been affected should do what ever it takes to make sure that it is dealt with in the correct manner

Unfortunately what was seen by a few as harmless fun has now seen their actions escalate into the anger of how it was then dealt with by the officials.

Arrest - correct if offense commited (and someone did whether it was Danny or not yet needs to be proved in a court of law)

You can be sure that in future games that Stanley will no longer allow the throwing of till rolls onto the pitch!!!!

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

However laudable and deserved is the support for Jason, I'm not sure how many magistrates spend time on Facebook.
Find out who's actaully defending him in court and let them know you are willing to act as a witness for defence.

As to the police, if you have a genuine complaint one, use their channels.
Lancashire Police Authority .: Register Views
But don't expect much joy. Without shoulder numbers and documentary evidence, you'll not get far.
Email individual members of the Police Authority, who are supposed to respresent you, not the Police, and ask them to explain how the behaviour on Wednesday night satisfies the Police's pledge to you and me.
http://www.lancashire.police.uk/admi...E%20Poster.pdf

But the main thing to remember about this debacle is that throwing till rolls at people on the pitch, if this is what happened, is pretty stupid thing to do. Whoever did it (if at all) has screwed up Jason, not the coppers.

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

I can say through prior knowledge of being deputy chief steward at stanley and having taken my Level2 Event and Matchday stewarding (and passed!), that at no point are you told that grabbing people in a headlck or striking them in any manner is acceptable. In fact the only manner of restraint they endorse you using is a standard arm bar and if you are met with further resistance them this should be turned into a double arm bar (by a second person) at which point this can then be used to 'force' the person into a position where they are walking doubled over. If this is meeting further resistance then they tell you to call in police support.

Having thrown various fans out from various clubs (including some of our own) I can safely say that I never had to grab anyone by the head/neck to get the job done.

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

You make some good points but as much character reference/witness type stuff as can be accumulated and presented to the right people may help mitigate any punishment.

It may (though I think it's a long shot, given the publicity this has already attracted) also persuade the CPS to stop short of a full criminal charge.

This is a real 'there but for the grace of God' issue as far as I'm concerned personally.
I was once grabbed by five burly coppers in London after watching my 'other' team Spurs win the FA Cup against Forest.
They 'said' they'd had a tip-off that someone matching my description was carrying a knife (all bollocks, they just wanted to break up a rather big - but well-behaved group outside a West End pub and throw their weight around a bit).
I refused to go with them round the back into an alleyway, where they said they wanted to 'interview' me away from the rest of my mates.
I refused but, because I hadn't by that stage had much to drink, was able to do so rationally - explaining politely that they were frightening me and they could do whatever searches they wanted in open view of lots of people, with my complete consent (ie the only thing I was 'resisting' was going with a gang of coppers into an alleyway - I was careful to point out that I wasn't resisting 'arrest' because they didn't have any reason to arrest me until they'd searched me - with which I was fully prepared to co-operate).
Had I had a few more - or had they pushed the issue more forcibly, I'd probably have a criminal record by now.

Good luck, lads.

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

I was stood with the Ultra's and yes someone definatley threw till rolls onto the pitch after the whistle blew and continued to do so especially when Krul was taking his goal kicks. The police then came and walked along the front of the Clayton End possibly as a warning to say look enough's enough someone from the crowd then threw something towards said police. At the time the police did not take action (who would in such a packed and confined area) They waited til end of match and then made the arrest this is when everything escalated.
Up until this point no officials made any movement to remove any of us still chanting merilly away at the end of the game.

The arrest is the instigator in all this, then the rush of some to try and find out whats going on hasn't helped, innocent people have then been caught up by over zealous officials

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

[quote=asfc0811;840732[COLOR=Red]]Because the tennis balls were thrown from BEHIND the Whinney Hill - outside the ground[[/COLOR]/quote]

Which would have called for an extremely 'good-arm'..and the navigational accuracy of an Exocet Missile !.

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

I noticed that two policemen were taking photographs with a telephoto lens and a video camera of the Ultras during the game. They may have some incriminating evidence of people throwing missiles (till rolls) during the game, more arrests may follow. (hopefully not)

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

As you quite correctly pointed out in a previous quote, I was on the gates on that evening, so being in the control room is never going to happen. BTW do you have any qualifications in being a steward at a sports arena, I do. What about the other comments you have quoted me on, nothing to say on them?

Instead of quoting me, why not use your own words for a change. At least I owned up to making a mistake on the board. BTW I happen to have quite a few Geordie friends and relatives so please give it a rest eh!

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

They were called in by that fat, bald, "look at me I'm a chief steward it's on my jacket so I'm important" person.:rolleyes:

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

But isn't "fat, bald, "look at me I'm a chief steward it's on my jacket so I'm important" person" actually doing his job.

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

Good post, I did not see the incident as I was on my way from the ground so I am not prepared to comment on any of the actions of any of the parties involved, but I do believe Jase had approached the ultras earlier in the night asking them not to set off smoke bombs /flares but what happened SMOKE BOMBS and now Jase is facing a banning order. At the end of the day rules is rules as stated elsewhere on this thread and it,s the FL that set them, If ASFC are found to be in breach of these rules it will be the club that pay the price also the police can re catorgerise any further matches at the crown which will also inccur cost to the club.
We have so far been in a very lucky position were certain aspects of the FL regulations have been woolie round the edges and a blind eye has been turned but in truth how many times do people have to be told not to throw things onto the pitch what do they expect to happen if they get caught??
I do think that things will now change (for the worse in my opinion) at the crown no matter who was to blame for this inccident and I would not be supprised to see fans being searched even more stewards and police and overall a clamp down on anything regarded as bad behaviour or a breach of FL league rules.
At the end of the day there is no chance of a statement from the club until such times as all the evidence is gathered, to comment before would be like shooting themselves in the foot.

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

Please, I started this thread because of my disgust in what went on on Wednesday night. All the “Whys and wherefores” are irrelevant at the moment.

IF Danny threw a “Missile” at a police officer – fair point, but what went on afterwards, was not right, others could have been hurt and as we all know – I hope – we do not cause trouble, we just have a good time.

We stayed behind to congratulate our Team on a great display, but all the Officials seemed to want us out.

I had planned to stay in Accy and have a few drinks – win, lose or draw – but after I witnessed what went on and Jase being cuffed, I just drove home, I posted this thread when I got home, because it was how I felt at the time.

Two days later, I feel worse, love him or hate him, Jase is one of the main driving forces behind The Ultras and our FANtastic support, it will not be the same without him.

But the reason for this post is to say, please do not let us fall out between ourselves… Emotions are running high, but remember, we are all the same – Stanley FANs!!!!!!





:) :) :)

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

Hang on a minute! Has the whole world gone bonkers? Since when has a toilet roll or till roll morphed into a MISSILE? When I was a lad missiles were what Russia tried to sneak into Cuba, nearly precipitating World War 3. What next - cricketers arrested for bowling too fast with a hard ball; wedding guests arrested for throwing confetti? Calling bog roll a missile is the sort of crazy argument that Dear old Peter Sellers wouild have used in "I'm All Right Jack" to justify bringing out the brothers on strike, and we would all fall about laughing at the farce. Not now - we've all gone mad with P.C propaganda worming it's way into every conceivable situation where the merest hint of offence or perceived injury reults in everything being closed down. I'm not blaming the club on this issue as they have to work within the "Guidelines", but for God's sake, when is the country going to wake up from sleepwalking into a state of zero tolerance? Getting time again for this grumpy old man to emigrate!:D

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

Very Wise words VALAIRIAN

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

Hello all

I'm Amanda Jacks from the Football Supporters Federation (The Football Supporters' Federation - Informing, Supporting, Campaigning) and have read this thread with interest.

Firstly, if anybody needs legal advice, we have an excellent solicitor to whom we refer supporters who've been arrested. Free advice is available over the phone.

Secondly, if anybody would like to make complaints about the actions of the stewards (a headlock is not an approved restraint technique!) then please do email me at [email protected]

Amanda

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

About the best post on the thread me thinks

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

IMHO the guy did not need to involve the police but use some common sense and do what he got paid to do, crowd control. If he had taken a walk along the back of the Clayton End and issued a warning that he was going to involve the police if the throwing carried on to me would have been the correct way of handling the situation.

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

Cheers Jaysay :)

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

Redraine, I am using "Legal speak" I know it was not a missile, same as Jase was not "Drunk, or Disorderly!" :) But, that is what they say!!

I am with you all the way, nowt went on, but some of the officials just wanted to ensure that their wages were justified :rolleyes: IMO :)

As I was walking to my car on The Crown carpark, there were two young kids next to me - 8/10 years old - one of them had a small flag in his hand - rolled up - as he was walking near to the mounted Police, one of the horses reared up, the mount shouted/screamed to the flag holding boy "STOP WAVING THAT FLAG" He was holding a rolled up flag!! No control of the horse, so blame a 10 year old kid!!!!!

Anyway enough, tomorrow sees us play the 2nd Team this week, that we have never played before, long may this dream continue :)

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

An interesting post. Quite alarming, if also comforting to realise that this issue has now obviously become of national interest.

From my seat in the main stand i only witnessed the actions of the stewards towards the geordie fans. The guy who jumped over the wall to celebrate Newcastle's 2nd goal, although daft as a brush for doing it, was most definately mistreated by the stewards, one of whom had him headlocked as he dragged him away. I remember thinking at the time, that the actions of this steward could have caused a riot. In fairness the rest of the Geordie fans just gave him verbal abuse and didn't react against the stewards. Fair play to them for that.

I hope that those involved at the Clayton End after the match, take the advice of Amanda's post and contact her. The over reaction of both stewards and police should not have to be tolerated.

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

CEF

your new on here and your clearly a steward

you talk alot of crap

no one was drunk

20 or 30 people where not running at the police, they where climbing over chairs, walking down steps, ducking under bars - you make it sound like a stampede

no one ran at any stewards, the stewards decided to get involved on their own accord

There is a difference between backing a blokes character and condoning illegal activity.
There is also a commercial interest, as the club potentially could lose alot of fans from a young generation, this would also have a knock on effect on the teams performance as their is a direct link towards the boost the players recieve from the fans noise and the intimidation an away keeper/player feels playing in front of the clayton end.

intimidation of away players and officials is a positive thing, it occurs at every football ground to varying degrees.
Never get a penalty at old trafford, anfield or stoke?
pleas dont link intimidation to throwing till rolls, again incase you didnt read it, the till rolls where designed to leave an effect in the goal nets with the rolls hanging down, as seen in many football grounds across europe. It looks impressive.

Its convienent and 100% false for the police/stewards to link till roll throwing to an incient 40 minutes later, which the police and stewards instigated.

one thing the new stewards have been unable to understand or accept, the ultras and the fans in general at accrington self govern and sort out any problems.
This is a unique positive set up.

Dont forget, stewards are their to act as police on the cheap, collect their minimum wage, do a fake NVQ and fulfil their egos.

btw - i just like everyone else was searched by a line of stewards going into the ground. they are useless.

pathetic.

I would love to meet you.

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

DAV007, that has got to be the most sense that you have ever typed!!!! Respect :mosher: :)

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

I bet you would because she is a woman.

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

Stewards are being hammered on this thread, and for very good reason. Their behavioir the other night seemed to have approval from someone. The Police?, The club? who knows, but it wasn't acceptable by any standards.

By contrast, i went to Doncaster for the 1st round and was body searched on entering the ground there. The difference being, i was approached in a respectful manner by a steward with a smile on his face who made light of his task. His approach wasn't intimidating in the slightest and i willingly obliged. I entered the ground to find the rest of the stewards just as accomadating.

The stance of the stewards on Wednesday night was most definately one of "we are up for a ruck" and was both intimidating and inflamatory. This is something the club must consider when they next employ external stewards.

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

man or woman, anyone who comes out with all this top-down innocent crap on behalf of the club/security forces needs an earful of common sense.

come to the mersey clipper on tuesday night from around 6.30pm, you will easily spot me, I will be the only stanley fan without about 5 of my tranmere mates.
I can tell you exactly what happened, just as i have done on here.

The police and stewards caused this mess, do not try and pass the book.

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

Dav !... does this indicate that there might be some truth in what you say ?

But isn't "fat, bald, "look at me I'm a chief stewardit's on my jacket so I'm important" person" actually doing his job.

And I too was inclined to think that although CEF appears to have a reasonable IQ...her appreciation of
the situation to hand seemed somewhat flawed !...
although, as usual, your description of her post carries more punch than my replies could possibly contain ! . .

And, as CEF's profile indicates gender-wise that she is Female....and as I would always shy away from making sexist comments...all I can add is .. IT FOLLOWS !!

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

I did not see the problems after the game so cannot comment on those. There can be no disputing the fact that the Ultras contribute so much to both the atmosphere at the ground and to the performance of the team.

But I don't think it can be right that they self-govern. They cannot put themselves above the law. This thread is about the implementation of the law. There seemed to be evidence on Wednesday that the law was being broken by some of the Ultras. Till rolls were thrown during the game. Let's not forget that many of the Cheltenham problems were caused by illegal acts including the lighting of flares.

For the Ultras to try to put themselves above the law would be a very dangerous development indeed.

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

agree redraine, the ultras make the atmosphere without any doubt, whilst some may not like the law, fact remains it is. if law aint broken then chances are ya can nail these thug stewards, Break it n it becomes very hard work.

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

revived red

the self governance was not linked to the mess the police and stewards caused on wednesday night, it was a general observation.

At every premiership ground i have been to (and I have done 19 of the current 20, most more than once), if a person was being over the top with criticism/language/racism/sexism/etc, fans would either go quiet or call a steward making the whole proccess slow, messy and difficult.
Every time i have witnessed someone going to far in the clayton end (including me! - poor old john miles, but i did end up becoming his biggest fan in the end!), the fans themselves have sorted it out as a group.

This is a unique and positive behaviour attribute which should be encouraged.

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

I realise that, Dav, and it's exactly that which worries me. In general, I just cannot see how a small group can be allowed to self govern. You have quoted some examples of verbal abuse which you suggest the Ultras have sorted amongst themselves. Who gives them the right to decide what is acceptable and what isn't? The lighting of flares and throwing of till rolls during the game is rather different from chants that may or may not be acceptable.

And to be clear, I am not linking the throwing of till rolls to the subsequent actions of the stewards and police. I am saying that the Ultras cannot be allowed to self-govern. They must be subject to the laws and bye-laws which apply in football grounds and which must be monitored by stewards and police. Exactly how the stewards and police do that is another matter altogether. Although I did not see the incidents being described in this thread, I have seen stewards (and police) behave unacceptably at other grounds. Indeed I feel so strongly about what I see as increasing intimidation of football supporters that I intend to write to the Minister of Sport to suggest that the whole business is reviewed as a matter of urgency. It seems to me that we are rapidly approaching a situation where football grounds are becoming battle grounds - and it is not battles between rival sets of fans but between fans and stewards/police.

Someone else has referred to the stewards at Doncaster. That was a model for stewarding at its best.

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

the best stewards i have ever witnessed where wycombe wanderers away, first game of the 2nd season back in the league.

perfect stewarding.


regarding self governance.
They are not deciding what is right or wrong, they are sorting out the problems without then need for any steward/police interferance which would escelate the issue, slow down a resolution to the problem, and make the individual who went to the stewards at risk.
With the group sorting out any issues, all of those problems are removed and the matter is sorted instantly.

I cant see what is wrong in this type of self governance? is it not to be encouraged?

What they 'decide is acceptable and what isn't' in this instance falls into the rules of attending a game.

whats your problem and who is it with? spell it out.

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

ya must be reading it differant to me davo, i dont know redraine, but i don't see he has a problem wi anyone.:confused: apart from bad stewards.

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

cashman,
point accepted.

so is it a problem with an element of the groups actions? one of their behaviour traits?

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

dav to me the stewards at donny this year epitomised how any steward should behave regardless of their position amongst steward heirachy. they were truely magnificent and allowed us to enjoy a magnificant victory. it is very sad that in our own back yard the club are incapable of maintaining an element of empathy towards our magnificant support and have to import hi vis thugs from elsewhere and employ half of the Lancashire police force and their horses to police a match where every individual with half a brain would know there would never be any trouble.

i am just personally disgusted with the treatment of Jase and to a certain extent Danny(but he was bloody stupid) and hope we can resolve the situation whereby both lads can resume their rightful places on the terraces around the country supporting Stanley

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only thing i can say davo in my view, is if certain people didn't break the law, then those thug stewards aint got a starting point, so therefore if the stewards behave like louts, ya surely stand a better chance of bringing em to book, its hard enough to do that.:confused: they will always use previous offences to defend their action, whilst it may well be balls, thats what they'll do, i got that particular T-Shirt.

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

cashy from what tour was that from and also good to meet you on weds night.cheers nige

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cashy i actually meant what tour t shirt

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

Can only comment on what I saw. In between the clubhouse and the Crown steps, I saw five police officers take down one flummoxed Stanley fan. What he did, I don't know. I then saw a couple of the officers call over two horseback officers. I then saw eight officers in blue uniform (for all intents and purposes - riot gear) run in behind the Clayton End. The man struggled, shouting "what is this even for?". One of the officers slammed the man against a van and shouted "you're peeing (sic) me off". I thought the worst case of hideously disproportionate policing and terrible ground safety standards would be at Cheltenham away. I was wrong.

Let's make one thing clear - there has never ever been any trouble with the Stanley Ultras until stewards and/or police have intervened. Think about that.

Isn't the primary objective for matchday police, stewards and their controlling officer the safety of all spectators? Exactly who was made unsafe inside the ground by Jase, Danny or any of the Ultras?

This abject failure of authority figures that night sickened me and has made me seriously rethink returning to The Crown Ground.

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i'll tell you what Shakey, I'm that petrified about how I might be treated in future, if I stand with the Ultras, that I might start going in the home ends when we play away ...

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

We at the FSF have similar concerns, hence my posting on this thread (that came to my attention via a Google alert) and work very hard to ensure fair treatment for all. I have dealt with many supporters who have been arrested unfairly or who've had complaints against stewards or police and have had a number of successes, some of which are documented on our website. We've also ran campaigns "Watching Football Is Not A Crime", have a bust card on our website advising you of your rights and what to do on arrest and will shortly be working with Liberty, the civil rights organisation, in a campaign against Football Banning Orders on application.

I am more than happy to assist with your complaints here, but if you'd rather deal yourselves, I suggest that one person co-ordinates this, collects statements and then send them to the club to ask for a meeting to discuss.

If you do not get a satisfactory reply from the club, then escalate it to the Football League for them to intervene and if you're still not happy after their efforts you can take it to the Indepedent Football Ombudsman for him to adjudicate. This is the official complaints procedure and yet very few, if any, clubs advertise that on their websites.

It won't be easy, in my experience the default position taken by clubs is "we're right and you're wrong" so you'll have to be determined to see it through.

If the police were heavy handed or behaved in any way inappropriately, complain directly to Lancashire Police - again, you may not initially get a satisfactory reply, but be determined!

The police at senior level are always willing to work with supporters; it may be an idea for the Ultra's group to seek a meeting with them. The Ultras are often misunderstood and treated like criminals; perhaps communication with them will break down the barriers. Flares are a big no no, but I find it very disappointing that these groups who want to do little more than create an atmosphere and bring a bit of colour to grounds are treated like hooligans and tightly controlled. If fans want to do a display with till rolls, ask permission first and agree to pick them up after the game?

Anyway, I digress... whether these arrested fans come to us or not, it is vital they seek legal advice (if they haven't already). Too many fans think it isn't worth it, or they may as well plead guilty "to get it over with". Big Mistake! Decent legal representation can and does make a vital difference. We've dealt with many fans who've been told they'll get a banning order - and yet they've left court without one, because they've been represented.

With regard to writing to the Minister of Sport, I'd be very interested to see what reply you get and I'd advise copying in the FA, Premier and Football Leagues.

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were these police from greater manchester police theres some kind of trait here:confused:

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Can I just say, that all those who have said they are rethinking visiting the Crown Ground, do that and the stewards/Police have won. The Stewards on Wednesday night were mostly from Blackburn (the club only have approximately 25) and the Police were a mixture of Lancs Constabulary and Tyne and Wear Metro Police to monitor the Geordie fans (who they know). I will lay any odds that the majority on here posting have never been a steward at a football or other sports arena. Believe me when I say it is a thankless task and I know one or two on here who have been stewards and given it up for whatever reason. I do not condone the actions on Wednesday night of Police or stewards and I sincerely hope that common sense will prevail and all charges and threats of banning orders will be dropped in due course. In the meantime, I hope someone else will take up the mantle that Jase cannot in the forthcoming fixtures.

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I was shocked to read all this, surely Stewards are paid by the club to protect the supporters from harm and maintain safety in and around the ground and as such should be acting as ambassadors for the club not man handling people and acting like thugs. My friend who attended the game commented the Police were filming the whole time and said to him we know who they are and we will get them later. Seems like it was all premeditated really and they were just waiting at the end for some incident no matter how small to make arrests.
Good luck to both of you a slap on the wrists is quite sufficient really but who knows nowadays in our courts.

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It is not a case of winning or losing, why should it have happened???? Redraine summed it up perfectly P.C. gone mad!!!! This sort of thing is taking the enjoyment out of it, that is all I am saying OO :( :) :)

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

I’ve been reading through like others and some posts are a bit dramatic, I would have thought that Jase and co will have got proper legal advice and will hopefully be cleared of any serious wrong doing.

There have been a number of witnesses making statements on here; have you been down to the Police Station and made factual statement of what you witnessed/experienced personally. Have you contact Jase or his legal advisors and given supporting statement of events.

Over recent months people have actively sought self management has fans i.e. ASSF, Trusts, OSC and the Ultras themselves; have any of you gone and made an official complaint regarding the activities of the Stewards on the day or the Policing of the game.

It would be interesting for us to hear of any positive moves made to remedy this situation or of any outcomes that favour the forwarding of the club in a positive light.

I would like to think that everybody who could possibly attend home games do so and show the whole system negative or positive that Accrington Stanley supporters are above intimidation and above all are law abiding; and possibly the best Club Football Supporters in the World.



P.S.

What about fighting funds....are these guy's on there own or are we collecting..(better see what happens on the 8th. maybe)

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Having left before the final whistle on Wednesday

There is not much I can add to this thread that has not perhaps been written already

The advice from Amanda at the FSF is sound advice

All I can add hoping that it dosn't happen but if the worst does happen then the Clayton End & the Crown Ground as a whole will be at a loss without one of it's most Charismatic & Passionate fans.

I also received a superb email from Terry who is an NUFC Season Ticket Holder which I think underlines that point from a visiting fan which I will post in Newcastle Thread.

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In regards to the stewarding /policing what i can`t understand about all of this is the fact that there was regular matchday stewards on the clayton end and control box whom have seen the Ultras stay behind after a match season after season with no trouble whatsoever, why did non of these have the sense to sort the situation out before it excalated either on the terrace or from the control room .What i could see some police both inside and outside the ground handled this match almost like it was a big derby/grudge match and don`t understand how to police an Accrington Stanley family friendly match as they are not geared up for this, again information from the club would i presume have been given ,when walking past all the Newcastle coaches overheard one geordie and a couple of police whom could`nt believe how overpoliced this fixture was.Just to finish Jase and Danny are top lads and have my wholehearted support

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Very good point!!!!!!!!!

The stewards have seen it after every game , we stay behind for like 10 or so minutes and have stayed for longer in other matches also!!!!

I think the stewards dont like that so i think they thought this was their opportunity to pounce on some of the key ultras!!

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ya could possibly have summat there F.C., would be a good opportunity fer someone else to get the blame if yer right.:eek:

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

What about when we could not walk along the walkway at the end of half time fc:??? What was that all about??? The whole night was crazy, just hope that we do not lose one of our best assets on the back of this!!!!!

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I think you have something there:(:(

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Losing Jase would be getting rid of our '12th' man, he is a Stanley legend.

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Jase and Danny are not alone in this fight there is alot going on at min but there will be a statement made if it is allow(stanleymad ill pm you with the full statement before i post so you can ok it)

The statement will be made in the next 24hrs

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EVERY HOME GAME THIS HAPPENS:

Game Ends - 10 Minute Singing - Put Flags Away And Clear Up

Why the stewards or Chief Steward(s)/ Health And Safety man couldn't tell the police before or after the game had finished puzzles me!!!

There was no need for any of it, no dangerous or ruley behaviour happened!

Also a note for the police is their Horses, one police woman couldn't control hers and it was all over the place and even managed to kick two people!!!

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The walkway incident was really annoying!

One steward was stood their on the terrace walkway entrance with his arms across it! We started walking towards it saying excuse me and said we wasnt allowed through. Thinking he was joking i laughed politely and said excuse me! He was actually being serious. He said that you cant go through the walkway as people behind it were blocking it!

I thought, is this a joke? I went to him " well why cant you move the people behind the walk way so then we can use the walkway for what its for" he said nope not coming through.

So everyone then had to get through and pass everyone on the terrace just get to were they wanted to!! Its an utter joke. Whats the point in a walkway?
I didnt mind walking through the people to stop a problem etc but its how they talked to you and what they did and that was nothing.

I try not to have a moan on here as there isnt any point and just causes negativity towards the club but this was something that really annoyed me!



Oh and yes, if crooky gets banned for chucking a till roll , then so do another 80 people!!! :enough:

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Cheers katei no probs :)

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i nearly got bloody kicked when it charged at me! when i was leaving the ground! couldnt exactly leave when we had 3 massive horses blocking the exit!

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Swore i'd never post on here again,so here goes for one day and one day only.Having read through the posts regarding the problems during and after the match i can see both sides of the argument,having been on the clayton end for the Newcastle game it was great to see everyone in high spirits.As Stanley convert says the throwing of any object onto the pitch is against league rules and the club will bear the consequences when the dust settles.The smoke bomb pellets were a stupid idea being let off in a confined area with people so close together,these smoke pellets are potentially toxic and can harm anyone with or without breathing difficulties,the empty container was also in the goalmouth and had obviously been thrown at Tim Krul along with a few coins.I have done a lot of work inside the crown ground (including clearing up all the till rolls and everything else that was thrown into the goal area during the Newcastle game) since the end of last season, and it saddens me to see that certain people are giving Mick Schultz a lot of stick over the ensuing problems that followed the game.Do any of the people involved realise just how much Schultzy does for ASFC,he's not only head of security but Kitman,gopher and a host of other duties (exccept when he's trying to delegate them to me lol).Get off schultzy's back and let him get on with his job,i for one wouldn't want his job and i don't think many other people would be able to do what he does.My only hope is that the events of wednesday night are sorted out and any heavy handed stewards are dealt with accordingly,common sense and thought cost nothing,i also hope that the events of wednesday don't come back to haunt ASFC.The cost to the club for extra policing which could be forced upon them (£3000 upwards) would put extra strain on a already tight budget,i sincerely hope it doesn't come to this.The club needs all the support it can get,so perhaps the fans should put a little thought into what they do to help not jeapardise ASFC, by the way i thought the effort that went into the banners for the newcastle game were fantastic,shame the night had to end in such a fashion.
Onwards and upwards STANLEY.

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Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

ditto Oldgobbin.

I text him the name of the steward WHO I SAW THROWING PUNCHES so hopefully it will be dealt with. But like has been mentioned, somebody is accountable for the stewards and it was their heavy handedness which forced the issue on the night. Fair do's nicking somebody, but when four people are holding one person down, with headlocks and arm bars, then folk will always intervene. If the stewards retaliation is to throw punches then the whole situation escalates. The club, if anything, should be extremely thankful that we don't have the army of idiots that the police clearly thought we had. If the 30 or so people involved (myself included) had been of that ilk then they'd still be cleaning the claret off the terracing

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Whilst I have some sympathy in what is being said, I cannot think Mick Schultz will come on this site to answer your complaints. Also, having seen a number of Newcastle fans ejected in a similar fashion, there was no intervention from their fans with the exception of a few boos directed at the numpties that came onto the pitch. However, due to the lack of retaliation after the incident, those ejected were laughing and joking with the police. There is one other point, although Mick is the Ground safety officer, what about a response from the chief steward (Caroline). There has been a deafening silence from her as well.

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I think that we all know that the club are in a very difficult situation and I for one would not expect to hear from them on this forum!!!!

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It is up to us as FANs to sort this, we must use the stickied thread at the top of this messageboard, plus every other option we have!

We all know where the club is, we all know who the people are!!

We have Amanda Jacks from FSF, who is offering help. I was close to Jase and I know that at least 1 or 2 more on here were close by - it could have been us!!!

We must not take this lying down, if we do, it will be the thin end of the wedge, before we know it there will be zero tolerance on singing, dancing, drums etc.

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Shocked to read what happened Jase,

Reading between the lines I reckon that the stewards have been waiting for an opportunity to get you, and you gave them that opportunity albeit for in your opinion the right reason, supporting your mate.

Of course I will definitely be a Character Witness for you, if it can help.

Accrington Stanley would not be the same without you, and also although I reckon your Ultras would carry on, I am sure that everyone would agree that it just wouldn't be the same without you.

Don't let them win, fight it and good luck to you.

Once again if I can help in any way as a Character witness then I will.

Best wishes to you and all the Accy Ultras.

John

Forever Bury.

Shakers and Shrimps alike, they all know the score!!! We must fight this!!

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why do stewards keep coming on here and trying to distract from the cause of the problems.

Police and Stewards with no idea on how to control a harmless crowd, but hell bent on wilfully creating a scene to justify their pointless existence.

I didnt agree with alot of what eric whalley said, but i do i agree with him on one thing 'i wouldnt pay them with washers'

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DAV007 I really do have to take issue with this statement.

FACT - till rolls were thrown after the start of the second half.
FACT - a message was tannoyed around the ground after the start of the second half to cease throwing till rolls. FACT also this wasn't heard on the Clayton End - which in effect is a club problem.
FACT - I know Jase polices the Ultras with a passion and his mantra is for a loud proud bunch of supporters who are - in the main - law abiding and peaceful. A policy I support whole heartedly.
FACT - were the stewards at the Clayton End, club stewards or hired help? You don't answer this one.
FACT - quite clearly you have never stewarded a game in your life. Try it, even at Accy it is not always that easy.

Whilst I support Jase and the Ultras for all they do at home and away matches, get off the stewards backs. Yes they may be paid 'washers', but without them, the town of Accrington would not have a football club, because they are a legal requirement - FACT.

PS I am not a steward - used to be one, but now do a more mundane job.

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~Whilst I understand what you are trying to say Ozzy, stewards came on the Clayton End with fists clenched, THAT IS WHY THERE WAS THE LEVEL OF TROUBLE THAT WE SAW.


If the arrest/ejection had been made in a proper fashion then there wouldn't have been any objection from the crowd as a whole. Once it was obvious that trouble had begun then they could quite easily have made a cordon between the first arrest and the so-called police attackers - they didn't, they separated and became emboiled in various battles all over the place.

For the record, I personally didn't have any problem with the way the police spoke to people, or the way they handled the beginnings of the trouble. At any point that they are asked, or take it upon themselves, to intervene then there is a problem. That type of problem is usually violence and they were dealing with a crowd. They are trained to deal with problems as quickly and firm handedly as possible. For me the problem of the police on the Clayton End lies with whoever made the call that they were required and whoever was in control (or not) of the Stewards? Did they act on their own initiative or was somebody telling them where to go and how to act?

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This was a point which I tried to make earlier Macca..
If it was deemed that such a large 'Security Force' was really necessary, given the good behaviour record at 'The Crown', then surely some pre-match 'briefing' would have been given to all concerned!.
If this was the case, then did The Police brief the Stanley Stewards and the 'Rentathugs' ?...or did the leader of the Mercenaries ( Hired Stewards!)...say that they would handle any misdemeanours in their own fashion ?....or was the Stanley Safety Officer the one to decide how the general security at the game would be handled, and any emergencies dealt with ?..
Or was there NO briefing at all imparted to the occupying Army , and thus ultimately no effective control planned other than that which caused the breakdown in order so widely described on our Forum ?.
An answer to this question would not only satisfy my curiosity, but also that of many others so concerned about our Club and it's future!. BUT...as the many others have implied...I'm not holding my breath!.
(Incidentally, I too as I walked through the Police Barrier at the top of Livingston Road, felt an unease that a meek and mild,and peace-loving Fan of our Friendly and Family- oriented' Club should not have to experience...this bit of Police-prescence was totally unnecessary...and no doubt expensive to the tax-paying citizens of Hyndburn !)

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

I've just posted on another thread that there were at least 15 stewards or police lined up in front of the Clayton End before the final whistle. Are they always there like that and I've just never noticed?

Re: FANs not criminals!!!!
 

Macca, I wholeheartedly agree with what you are saying. My point was, as Yonmon so eloquently put it, was it hired thugs or our own stewards. To answer Yonmon's question, yes there is always a briefing prior to kick off of any match. Under normal circumstances, the stewards are told how many away fans to expect, whether there is deemed to be any threat and what category the match will be. There was a massive overreaction on Wednesday night, and although I was not in the Clayton end and did not see exactly what happened, there have been enough posters on here to paint the general picture. You state the stewards came at you with 'clenched' fists, this would point the finger towards the 'hired help', because I cannot see any normal Accy steward trying that in the Clayton End.
On a final note, I hope and pray Jase and Danny get the support they deserve on their day (8th) because the place will not be the same without either.

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I suspect this was to stop any over exuberant fan getting onto the pitch. I suspect it was for one match only, but the stewards always do that at the away end at every match (unless of course there are only a handful of supporters).

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Whilst some have defended the police, no-one has said why fans were subjected to walk through a scowling bunch of em, lined across the top of Livingstone Rd, before the match, what NEED was there fer that action?:(

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I would urge anyone who has a complaint to read the asfc v nufc sticky thread

Not only can these complaints be used to prove to court that both stewards/police overreacted on wed night they can also be used to try and work with the FSF and club to ensure wed nite is not repeated again

Our aim of a group complaint is to work with the club

I would also like to point out that while mick is in charge of the stewards we can not soley blame him for the actions of some stewards.He had no control over what actions the police took on that evening.

But i do agree some form of statement from either from our safety officer or the club should be forthcoming

again no matter how small your complaint is please read the sticky thread asfc v nufc

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