Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

Ill talk to anyone who can change the situation...ill be in the pub from 2pm till 2am...

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

mr miller the abject irony of this whole disgusting situation is that the largest/greatest game that this club has been involved in since it's reformation has led to what i, and reading between the lines of your post,you believe, is the death of the future support of our club , and everything that despite all the boardroom crap has made stanley what it is today

i go back to my earlier post as to how it saddens me

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

:)I'm sorry but i can't under stand what the problem is regarding the flags!! If the clubs hands are tied which i believe they are over this issue then surly the way out for all as in the club and the fans which in cludes the ultras would be to have the flags treated with fire retardent!thus removing any threat of fire which is the real issue here in my mind,and is paramount to the safty of all. and i think its wrong to put pride before safty to all and if the moneys been offered to thoses that have the flags to have them treated and is not accepted .Then my QUESTIONis why NOT.:confused:

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

Because creating special one off flags for certain games like the newcastle one. It would not be possible to make and fire proof each time.

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

In which case does it not make sense to publish those facts instead of inviting the constant comments that it's the clubs decision. :confused:

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

So what your saying ts that none of the other flags can be fireretarded becauses you might do a special flag now and again:eek::confused:Idear why not get all the flags treated and then if the need arrises to make aspecial banner /flag seek the advice of the club and ask for a one off ussage agreement:)

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

Time to log off and get sorted for the game!! Other wise the crowd i'll be dwindling a bit more;):):)

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

Some people on here dont get it.

WERE NOT BOWING DOWN TO MR SHULTZ!
If we do so, then they have got us every single time they dont like something!

Its easy to get them fireproofed! The club even said they would pay for it! But its not about that, its principal! They dont need fireproofing and thats why most Ultras are in disagreement to have it done!

I for one would not bow down for the simple reason they dont need doing.

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

mmmmmm who said they dont need doing?? FC are you saying that your self {and not our forum member**and the ultras are bigger than the CLUB :eek:

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

:confused: Dont know where that came from. But no, no fan or fans are bigger than the club.

Its a stand isnt it.

Another example would be an old lady standing in the cowshed, seats got put in and now she doesn't go anymore. Its just a stand against whats happened, same with what the group are doing.

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

if its a stand against what happens to be rules created by authorities,like em or not thats the way it seems to be. then that is senseless, making a stand is a good way only if ya can change summat.:confused:

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

Noble sentiments ! But to what avail ? They've already got you it would appears as exemplified by lessening attendances & a lack of colour & display which you Lads used to put on every week. As long as this sentiment continues it will then in turn have a continued detrimental effect on the figures attending thereby harming the Club in the long term = less folk = Less income = Less sustainability ! Therfore condemning the Club into an ever increasing downward spiral.

I fully understand your views on principles, but you can't always justify those morals & views if in the long term that which you are trying to protect ends up losing out & suffering. If need be give in but request concessions, a meet me half way approach must surely be better for all in the long run rather than the entrenched positions & grinding attrition at present ?

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

I must admit to being shocked at the above post.............I dont recall ever reading such a contrite and childish post, you do your 'cause' no good whatso ever!

FACT: The Ultras had been warned about the use of smoke pellets on more than one occasion PRIOR to the current ban, but CHOSE to ignore said warnings. Checkout the Ultras own youtube videos, you can clearly see the illegal use of smoke pellets within the ground.

FACT: The club had mentioned that the Flags were a potential fire risk AGAIN on more than one occasion prior to the ban, yet again that advice/concern was ignored.

FACT: The ban was imposed on the club by LCC, the local Fire Safety Officer and the Local Constabulary................NOT by Mick Shultz. Yet the Ultras choose to blame the messenger rather than appeal to the people at the top.

FACT: The club has offered to have the existing Flags fireproofed at their expense. The Ultras choose not to accept saying that 'future flag making' would be jepordised........this despite an excellent suggestion on their own forum about asking for help from the club to purchase a roll of fireproofed material inorder that new flags meet the requirements of the HnS peeps.

The poster also says 'they dont need fireproofing'..........Im afraid that Ground Regulations state otherwise, and each and every fan who enters the ground on a matchday are governed by said ground regs.........principles dont even enter into the equation Im afraid.

Whilst this may read like a rant at the Ultras, I assure you its not, its merely an attempt to try and help some see common sense, principles are all well and good, however when those same principles would lead to a flouting of the law, then they are no longer viable principles IMHO.

There is a middle ground here and the club, for once, has made the first move towards that, surely now the Ultras should seriousy consider reconsidering their current stance as they are in a no win situation. The colour and vibrance of the Ultras matchday display is missed, the club has offered the olive branch, why not grasp it firmly and get back to what you do best, supporting the team and showing visiting fans how it should be done?

I shall now go and sit in the corner and await the missiles!! ;)

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

I would like to re-iterate what UK Cowboy has just said. As some of you may know, I spend every game in the control room, and can say here and now that the banning of flags that have not been flame-proofed HAS NOTHING AL ALL TO DO WITH MICK SCHULTZ.

Today I read the e-mail that the club had received from the LCC stating that the un-fireproofed flag ban would have to be implemented due to the smoke bombs that were let off during the Newcastle match.

So what can the club do but act on instructions from a higher authority.

The club has agreed to pay for the fireproofing of the flags. What more could they have done?

And in the same situation, what would you guys have done if you ran the club?

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

the flags that are sold in the club shop prior to matches are fireproofed I presume? It would be highly amusing to watch a prospective new fan buy a flag for their young son only to have it taken off him at the gate :rolleyes:

I also won't be buying any club replica shirts until they are made out of fire retardent material and come certificated. Childish? yes, but I wouldn't want to be set ablaze by some wayward smoke! :dflam:

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

I don't see why that can't work ??

Get the main flags coated for free now by the club and talk to the club later about the one offs . Sounds good to me ??

Must admit I did miss the flags today !

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

Doesn't it only apply to flags over a certain size ?

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

You can argue all you like, they are our flags & it is our reasons for not fire proofing them.

If the authoirities don't like our style of support, then so be it. But don't expect us to bow down to a ****e rule created by a jobsworth

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

That would make sense, but I'm not 100% sure, worth checking tho.

Macca, knowing you as I do, your post raised a giggle matey!

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

Come down off your high horses, you Ultras. Your stance is like cutting off your nose to spite your face.You are acting like big girls and making yourselves look ridiculous.:(
Nobody hates the stupid health and safety industry more than I do, but you really need to show a bit of maturity here.

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

That's that then, a mature, and concise reasoning. :rolleyes:

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

come on Jase back down a bit , the club will back down a bit .

The club will have to be seen winning .

Even though we don't agree with it .

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

Don't see anyone arguing jase, just see some grown ups trying to make you lot see sense, crap or not you lot were in the wrong FACT, the only sensible way in this matter is compromise. or the club ya profess to love spirals downhill. simple as.

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

Would love to see the big flags and displays back; the Clayton End looks so bleak without them. However I do understand that the Ultras' issue is with the lack of necessity in the H&S rule itself, as part of their 'against modern football' mentality. That mentality, that people are attacking for being foolish, also brought us the greatest display seen at an English football match as long as I can remember (the pre-Newcastle game flags).

It is their belief and they are passionate about it, and even though it's nowt to do with me, I'm fully behind people who are willing to stand up (and suffer) for their beliefs. It seems that the Ultras are fully aware of what the situation is, so it's up to them what they want to do.

No one is stopping other groups of people bringing their own fireproofed surfers etc if they feel so passionate about it. Nothing to fall out over on messageboards. :)

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

well come on then shaker who's falling out? its just opinions to me.:confused:

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

I cant believe so many people are attacking peoples decisions on something they do voluntary and at expence to themselves.

This post is about home dwindiling home support. If you think the flags missing are a problem make one, fire proof one, and bring it. Then over the next week make another. . . . . Its not a job its a choice the ultras have spent years making the effort.

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

Quite right.

However, I think you should re-brand yourselves as the 'Conventionals' now ;)

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

Of course you've the right to make any decision as to what to do with your time and money. I just wish you hadn't made this one ... the Ultras' flags make Stanley special and I for one would like to see them back. The Newcastle game was simply the best football experience of my life, mostly down to you lot (though JC and the team did a bit to help :)). So I am hoping against hope some sort of compromise becomes possible, though I can see why you don't want to change your stand.

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

What was achieved at the newcastle game would not have been posible with these rules. People can say oh get the normal ones done then come to an agreement for one offs but if we do compromise then it leaves room for them to change there mind or create new rules for people to bow down to.

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

If the post above is correct, then yer talking rubbish? go see that e-mail? that will clarify who's in charge of this ban, or is this just a face saving excersise? yer will probably say this is another post attacking, it aint its just common sense.:rolleyes:

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

At no point did i say the club was in charge of the ban. I was just trying to say they could change there mind at a later date and make new rules. On the attacking front i was just saying if people think thats the problem they can solve it themselves by creating flags. :rolleyes:

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

Who can change there mind? aint the clubs ban so they can't,please explain?:confused:

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

Noticed plenty of flags at Anfield last night big ones as well, surely all clubs have to adhere to the same rules on elf and safety, mind you there are very few at Old Trafford, maybe because its too far to cart them on the train from London;)

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

Members of the club. If an agreement was made its hardly official so if someone wanted to send the high vis sodiers out with new rules they could knowing that we have bowed down to one rule so we'll have to bow down to more rules which no matter who decides on the rule they are enforced by the stewards on entry. Alot of what goes on is very last minute so the more rules needed to hover around the harder what we have so special will be to keep.

We do what we do the way we do thats why we are so good at it. Like i have said if people have opposite opinions we are not professionals yet have managed with the displays if people want flags make some.

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

This is getting out of hand. "They" are not a fascist dictatorship bent on world domination via a stewards' army, they're the management team of a small football club which has done so remarkably well and progressed so quickly that said management team are out of their depth when trying to satisfy the requirements of the host of outside bodies (FA, FL, HMRC, LCC, HSE etc) who all insist on sticking their oar in. And have to use an unpredictable :( bunch of stewards to look after an unpredictable :) bunch of fans .. I want a new regime like most people on here but am prepared to give the old regime a bit of slack occasionally.

Blessed are the peacemakers .... :hidewall:

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

if its hardly official,as ya say then it aint binding? the way ya do things is superb, but yer now in this position through a few fools setting smoke pellets off? not through the marvelous flags ya display, way i was brought up was if yer in the wrong bang to rights, ya hold yer hand up n move on, seems times have changed.

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

Different licencing authorities apply different rules. :rolleyes:

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

sorry but what a load of crap your talking!!!why you starting on the stewards for now its nowt to do with them... Oh on the make your own flags bit,i believe some one is actualy doing this....or may be not...

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

Not starting on them just stating the ones who make the rules dont have any of the backlash on entry. They are just sat in the officies. The stewards are just following orders hence 'high vis army'.

'some one is actualy doing this....or may be not..' So instead of telling me whats going on like im trying you thought youd do a riddle and im the one talking crap. :rolleyes:

Iv been trying to discuss sesibly giving my opinion on quetions asked not try argue.

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

I think Chimer has come close to hitting the nail on the head with some of the post about the Club having constraints and certain criteria placed around them by outside bodies at the end of the day we are a FL Club be it one that has pushed a lot of things close to the wire.

Anfield not 100% sure how it is run but what I have seen everytime I have been there is Flags, Banners & Surfers appear 10/15 minutes before kick off in the Kop for the teams to run out to then as kick off is imminnent it looks like they appear at the front and are packed away and taken to side the stand for the duration of the game.

I would imagine this is as an arrangement between Fans & Club?

The Flags/Banners are made by the Ultras so they have every right to do what they want with them but that said I think it has made the Clayton End a duller place without the spectacle.

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

something I was told a while back was mentioned earlier in this thread. Because we are so close (or under) to the minimum requirements on everything in the ground, there is no leeway or margin for error left for anything else. Summat to do with a point scoring system I believe. We need to have x number of toilets per capacity, x number of stewards, x number of exits etc etc. Leeway has been granted because we don't get anywhere near our capacity, but being as how we are already under the required amounts we can't get dispensation for other things.

may or may not be true I don't know, but its crap that something as trivial as flags are banned because we haven't been able to fill these requirements in five years.

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

ive made sum now but ive not lighter to test it.

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

I understand your post to be true Macca :idunno: :) And as you say, it is a pity that we are losing out on the atmos because of it.....

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

rob you are right but either way the club will not back down the ultras will not back down both have their reasons and if all the boxes are not ticked come the end of dec the club will not meet the LCC regs .. .....

after that there is only 1 answer :( i hope to god the club pull this 1 off they wont be able to rally the ultras to pitch in with last minute jobs like they did a couple days before the start of the season

We have lost the flags.......we are gonna more than likely gonna lose Jase.......what next :(

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

Your Right it was very chlldish of me to put a riddle in my reply to your post:) karma sent

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

Capacity will be met well before the 31st Dec league dead line,control room should be up and running later this week,as for extra toilets thats new one on me but MrTcould fill in the blanks if he would be so kind.as for the flags!!check back on this thread to see whats happening on that front;):)As for jase i wish him well and hope your wrong and hes soon back on the clayton end....

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

so, if we end up getting the boot outta the League, will we meet all ground criteria for the Blue Circle league and does that mean we get the flags back in time for the return of Alty?

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

Good to hear Mab but that's the sort of important news that should come from the Club via the Website or whatever press releases are done!

It may seem small or trivial but is professional

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

:mosher:Agreed Google Page Ranking!!and nodout a statement will appear on the fishy site when the work is compleated:)

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

hope so mab......although it doesnt help the divide wot has formed between the club and the ultras/fans :(

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

I am not having a go at you Mab but at the Club with this, this is serious stuff which potentially our future as a FL Club may hang, no doubt they have already told the FL and their chairman via his visit last week the updates.

But we are equally as important, I sense there maybe a view within the Club until it is nailed down and complete they don't announce anything as things can go wrong?

Wrong there should be a structured timetable and regular updates via whatever news source the Club choose.

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

You'd fool me the flags at anfield on Saturday were masive on huge poles:confused:

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

You would think it would be in the clubs own interests to issue a statement on just what the rules and regs are they HAVE to adhere too, which would stop all this nonsense

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

it would be in the clubs best interests, if those at the head wished it to prosper.:rolleyes:

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

If those at the top don't want the club to prosper the games a bogy;)

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

the club never issued any proper statement (I cant remember even a rubbish statement but might be wrong).

the club never issued a statement regarding the trouble after the Newcastle match, when EVERYBODY was blaming the stewards and police.

the club never issue statements on anything that matters to us, and the ones they do release are about as informative as a wet tea towel

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

Or asking for money:rolleyes:

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

Nowt to do with Flags or Smoke Pellets Cashy !... but this just might reverse your original concern about dwindling gates !!..

Stanley's weekend match winner Sean McConville has been named in the Football League's Team of the Week.

A bit of good news at last ??.

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

:rofl38::rofl38::rofl38:

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

To my mind the Ultras are the one selling point bout Stanley for new fans. Our neighbours are always going to be able to offer more glamour and glitz (even the Dingles) and better facilities so the atmosphere at Dtanley has always been the bog draw. Even on the non league days the craic behind the goal was usually more entertaining than what was in front of it. I really hope that the Ultras issues with the club can be resolved. We cannot afford to give anyone reason to stay away.

Says the guy who can only get to a couple of games each season.

BTW this MCConville that's playing so well. Is he related to that ineffective scouse winger that's been at the club for the las few years?

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

wouldn't go as far as saying hes playing so well mate, lol to be fair he has improved a bit.;) whatever happens between the club n ultras, the silence from the club certainly don't help matters, on numerous points.:(

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

Same old Stanley, Cashy. Kim Jong Il is more open. It beggers belief. I don't buy the conspiracy theories - I've said before that I'm not sure anyone at the club is bright enough to think it through - but someone needs to budge a little before all that good work goes to waste.

And on the subject of that good work, I understand that the architect of all that is Ultra is due a result shortly. Good luck, WM. Hope it's the right one.

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

A couple of members of the ultras have had a chat with the club this week, and pending the certificates for the flags being sorted this week which should be done early this week the flags will be back on the clayton end.

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

That's Good News John:)

Well done to those concerned

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

Nice one JT!!! Any new flags on the way????

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

A very sensible move JT, well done pal :)

Look forward to seeimg the Clayton End back to normal.

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

well pleased good work Mr Timmins, the flags have been missed by many.:);)

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

:) Seconded cashy!!It will be great to have the clayton end back to its colourful best :)

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

Thirded - don't often get to see it / be in it, but love it when I do

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

Cant wait for the flags back.

Now all we need is Mr Graham

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

i will second that.

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

:)A little birdie told me that as of today all is sorted with LLC and Fire service and flags are up and running for our next home game and for rest of the season:)Well done to all involved:D

Re: Dwindling Home Support?
 

Good news Mab, let's just hope we get good news on the weather front!!!!