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How to increase attendances?
Loads of points have been made about attendances in the JB thread.
So lets attempt to see if the loyal fans of Accy can assist! Also lets put some facts on things. As Sherry said we posted a letter to every Primary School in Hyndburn to tell their leavers that when they went to High School (a lot more independance) the club would give them a free season ticket. We trusted the schools to promote this on our behalf. 42 familes took up the offer, some didn't collect their free ticket so we posted them out. Martin Fearon at the Trust does fantastic work promoting the club with loads of ideas to get people interested via free tickets. Sadly we have no way of knowing if people will return. Robert Houseman has returned to his teaching career in Blackburn, but attempts to promote the club as much as possible. However we see no point in handing out free tickets to children in Blackburn. Scott Dawson (SDA) are currently working with the Trust and the First Team to get vouchers into selected schools in the town. This is promoted by first team players going into the school prior to the game and then hundreds of vouchers left behind to encourage children to come and bring a parent/guardian at a reduced price. Two schools were targeted last week, 10 vouchers were redeemed out of the hundreds issued. Pricing is always a "hot topic" with numerous FL rules to be considered to ensure faireness for home and away fans. My belief from experiince dispite the good work of SDA, the Trust and the Club is that were are making steps, but only small ones. Giving lots of tickets away to my mind isn't the answer, however the good work we are doing is seeing positive rewards. We'd love it to be faster, but we need to be winning at home more often. That is out of supporters and admins hands, although 5 unbeaten is helping everything.:) |
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How far off announcing season ticket prices are they ?
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Sir what a valid question!!
Can I stick with the Club's Offiicial time line?? Next week;) In all fairness I believe it would be incorrect until whatever magical total is reached to ensure we continue our FANtastic run as the longest serving club in League 2:) |
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As I've said previously consistency & winning will encourage more interest but that isn't something the promotions team can influence, that is purely down to the guys on the pitch & in the dugout.
A family orientated section? Improved facilities & amenities? When we get back to UK we will always try to take in a couple of Stanley games & whilst enjoyable as it is it feels at times "flat". We also get at least one Coventry game where we take the niece & nephew & it just feels more interactive & the brats really enjoy it, I don't think The experience would be the same at the Crown due to the aforementioned "Flatness". |
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From my experience, the problem with handing out tickets in primary schools (which is a fantastic idea by the way, no problems with that) is the amount of notice given to families that their children will be coming home with a ticket and a reduced entry offer for the next game. Very often the children are taking these tickets home on the friday and the game is the following day, meaning parents already have plans, or indeed have no time to plan actually getting their kids to the game.
As a parent I can honestly say if im taking my little person anywhere, it requires a small amount of planning. Very often I know at the beginning of the week what im doing next weekend, therefore if she brings home a ticket on the friday that I have no idea is coming home, it means having to juggle everything about. For me this isnt generally a problem, however for many parents, in particular those with more than one child, taking the little ones out is more of an expedition and reorganising everyone so that little johnny can go to the footy just isnt viable. Surely the club and the schools know well in advance when they will be in school and therefore which game the tickets will be for. Meaning, the club could drop off a stack of letters explaining this to the parents with the school a couple of weeks in advance, making it easier for the parents to sort things out. |
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Do we still have the spare portacabin?
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Little things like that could well make a difference.:) Thats in reply to notice, Sparkie posted at same time lol
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I realise encouraging the kids is an attempt to claw back lost generations of support for the future, but there has to be a way of getting the paying punter through the gate. No I don't have the answer either :)
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The kids will take the free tickets, but perhaps need more incentive than just seeing the game if they're going to turn pester-power up to the point where Dave's paying punter (aka Mum or Dad) submits. Obviously the incentive needs to cost less than an adult ticket brings in, but being kid-free I've no idea what that might be ......
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Re: How to increase attendances?
I still think we missed a trick with what in essence was an excellent idea at ten games for £100 this gives flexibility to people who works shifts, live away from the Club and groups of friends.
No point doing something unless you follow it through Still need a devoted area in the Main Stand for Families and price ticketing aimed at them to encourage more to come as a family. Whatever way you dress it up the cold hearted reality is every spare space or seat is lost revenue. If the above were promoted properly and carried on through the season I am sure it would see an upturn. Also the Club need to look during the Close season at the spend once through the gate cause other than Beer sales I can't think of anything else to spend on where the money goes directly back to the Club given Programmes & 50/50 are usually purchased outside the Stadium. |
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Specifically which one? ( proper question) We have 2 medical rooms, the managers office, toilets x 3, a gym and in fact the club is "run" from a large portacabin. We've also sadly found out that these things require planning permission!!:eek: |
Re: How to increase attendances?
Neil,
Where do you have the family stand ?? and how do you steward/ segregate/ police it!! As good as an idea it is it would need separate facilities and enterances to work correctly. Again I can't see a workable solution the meets all the regulations. One for discussion at the next OSC?? When is that so this discussion perhaps could be had over a brew?? |
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I was meaning any one that is empty and alrwady planning approved on site?!
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Attendance wise,our bad start this season didn't help at all, Easier said than done but hit the ground running next season will increase it, as it does at any club, Seems to me work has already started on that score by issuing 2 yr contracts to some lads, meaning people cant jump ship without stanley recouping money fer em, A reasonably settled squad is imperative imho.:)
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Re: How to increase attendances?
Sarah, thats my point, none are empty and all "in use"
The gym isn't fully used on match days at present although when fully "powered up" Dan wants to use as a press room!! Suspect that will be next season's new FL rule and the kit room will be deemed unsuitable! Sarah also here your point about "lead times" with families. As a disorganised bloke who's kids have left home I'm slightly out of touch. However I'll mention it to SDA who assist us superbly!! Next week will be manic, but please call by for a brew if you can :) |
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For all games (excluding a cup run)
£15 adults £10 kids £2 under 12's Advertise (flyer for free outside) at the university fresher fairs (UCLAN, Bolton, Manc, etc) Tell the stewards to leave the fans alone in the Clayton End When negotiating a contract with the caterer for next season, ask them to include a package deal (the same way blackburn rovers do) Its a win/win The fans get a better deal and the caterer shifts more products and gets a higher £ spend per customer |
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Caterers contract has 1 maybe 2 years to run.
We need to inprove, but IMHO has to be outsourced. Will do Sparkie:) Keep the ideas coming please |
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Dav007 sorry the stewards cannot ignore breach of ground regs
We've already had too many FA repreminds this season!! Please don't get me started!! We had a pitch invasion at the West Ham game and were reported!! |
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I have a mate who brought his 2 kids who won be coming back anytime soon to the crown due to the stewards.
I understand you have to enforce regulation, but there is away of enforcement which gets fans on your side. Take a leaf out of wycombe wanderers book. |
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Dav007,
Please let me know via PM or a chat how we can improve. I believe we are fair and allow as much as we can. However we do listen; promise :) and will explain |
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Apart from refreshments I can't think of any other way they raise they raise money in grounds anywhere else. Off the top of my head I can't think of one at the Turf, though they probably take some rent or commission off the bookies huts. The other side of this discussions is if the people are not going to go to the ground and pay there money, how do the club get it off them away from the ground ? Somehow the money making schemes away from the ground have to be increased, but that's not easy when the same reasons Beattie has to have a low budget also applies to staffing and resource. Not enough paying customers on match days and every other day :( |
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Mr.T, good luck with your efforts.
I think Sarah Sparkie's point about advanced notice is a good one. I don't have kids but know how much planning has to go into things from those parents who make an effort. And how much competition there is for the kiddie pound. But, as suggested by others, kids are the future for Stanley, and I'm sure that getting players visiting primary schools will pay off. I generally only get to away games but do notice at places like Wycombe, Oxford, and Northampton just how many kids are taken by one or both parents. If tickets for a game two or three weeks ahead can't be offered through schools, could not vouchers be given for any future game for that season, offering free entry for kids to be accompanied by an adult and half price entry for a second adult? |
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Sir, points noted Sparkie will be listened too.
This may be too early but the Board want to engaged with teenage fans via the Trust so all sides can react to understand what we have to "sort";) |
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When the club's targeting schools, does it have to stick within the Hyndburn borough boundaries? What about distributing free tickets or vouchers to schools in the Ribble Valley, Rossendale and other surrounding areas?
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We're pushing the boundarys to the max!!
Stoneyhurst, Rawenenstall area, St Augustines, QEGS, Clitheroe RGS are all on our radar!! We are working damn hard!!:) |
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I don't know the criteria in the Main Stand can it be that hard to designate a block similar to the area that is used by the CT in the Clayton End perhaps the End of the Season is the time for a decision to be made with that one.?
I am sure a Steward can be designated to control that particular area from all the one's we have on the ground on Matchday surely we can do that? I am all for money saving but sometimes a reshuffle of resources can bring other dividends. Davo has touched upon the catering units what is the average punter spending in them do the Club know and what scope for doing in house? Most away grounds catering consist of Pies, Rollover hot dogs, Tea, Coffee, Cans & sweets relatively easy stuff to do and I would think good mark ups? Perhaps Even the Beer Huts or Crown could have a small bit of merchandise in to catch impulse buyers? If we don't try things we will never know? |
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Why not have a genuine community day is there scope to do something on the Land behind the Clayton End?
The ideas could be endless for it does it have to be a Matchday? Feel Free to add ideas your own ideas and let's see how far we can get it! Meet and Greet Manager, Players, Attract Potential Soonsors, include Companies that are already sponsors, leaflets about what opportunities are available, what a Matchday costs, a tour of the ground. One of our fans is also a Radio Presenter that could perhaps broadcast live if the event was on a Sunday? |
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I always enjoy the fanfests that Plymouth put on at quite a few home games. Big Marquee, £5 to get in and you get a pint & a pasty and live entertainment.
They raffle stuff off, have a sing, get fans up on the mic and this lasts for a couple of hours up to kick off. Good crack and loads of banter in there for both home and away fans. Good opportunity for the club to sell itself and involve the community. Get the kids involved, get a face painter in etc. I'm sure we could squeeze on in behind Clayton End. |
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In all honesty its just flogging a dead horse with stanley as the town just doesnt care about watching the club.
The only way you could get a few more is to improve facilities in the ground or to move the ground to a central position in the town. At football clubs they have the hundreds of the prawn butty brigade type of fan that come to the game because of the experience and the facilities and for football league Accrington is as tinpot as it comes! From the dirty ground before you come in to the dirty portakabin toilets. These people who come with children who want these facilities come and then dont come back again. Dont get me wrong, im a minority that couldnt careless but unfortunately us minority doesnt keep the club afloat and carrys on that tinpot label. For more family's to come and more of the wealthier and upmarket kind of people you need better facilities. Maybe we need to invest on doing the cowshed up for offices etc and make it a family stand? Another option would be to move the ground more central to the town and create a better ground for the club. This would become a more community based thing where more people would be visiting the ground and could actually see it!! How many people you could ask (including a taxi driver on saturday) dont know where the ground actually is! if your a general walk on fan sometimes they would rather stay in town with a pint then make the effort of venturing up to the ground. Another idea is working with Ossy Mills again? they have so many people walking through that place its unreal! Get the merchandise selling in their with a ticket option too at the counters? One main idea that i think could really boost the towns interest is having near to the town hall or in the town centre a massive sign saying who we are playing next and who away. Like burnley have outside their ground and rovers. But instead stick it in the town. It will jog peoples memory of what kind of clubs and who we are playing and will actually show whos football club this towns is instead of the thousands of blackburn and burnley fans. The one people mention all the time is the stewards too. Alot of the time they are not welcoming at all and are constantly looking for trouble but im not saying much about this as im just fed up of it. Unfortunately as we know it all costs money but unless you spend it you are never going to increase gates unfortunately and thats why sometimes we dont belong in this league. Also think the club needs to push more on away travel and help the fans back the club away like most clubs do. |
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Not quite about attendances but why not send letters into school offering, 1 kids and an adults ticket and a kids shirt for X amount (Not quite sure how much it is to produce a kids shirt) But make the shirt as cheap as possible!
Soon as 1 kid has a Stanley shirt, His mate will want one! We need people talking about Accrington Stanley, We have to go to them, They wont just come to us! |
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Some signage on the M65 would be a worthwhile investment, those random football signs are meaningless.
Maybe a fundraiser required? Lots of clubs seem to focus on the non match day revenue, I have been to quiet a few football grounds on non match days for meetings, conferences. etc. I do firmly believe if you offer the right walk on price package, you will benefit more than book early deals or varying price schemes depending on a match rating. |
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The biggest sticking point will always come back to money with the Club.
That for me is not about people fundraising but the Club engaging. |
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Not enough investment is ever made on infrastructure as every spare penny is grabbed by the manager season upon season. The long term picture is that the longer that goes on for the harder it will be to earn those pennies. I'm not sure where we're at with debts etc but hopefully the next player sale will mean a windfall for infrastructure? Hire a big team of sales professionals on low wage big incentive deals. That will guarantee them getting out and about. |
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It has been put back on track over the last couple of months, if you go in now you will see the merchandise section is growing back again. A few weeks ago it was a small glass case, now we have nearly all the wall back. Not sure about the ticket option, 1 how it could be managed and 2 if the customer base is going to come to Stanley. A large percentage ( my opinion not their facts I have to add ) of their customer base are day trippers who are very unlikely to come to a match. I will ask for the facts though. Some good points there, in particuar the one about facilities. The die hard fans will accept anything even if they have to pee in a bucket but somehow the money needs to be found to smarten things up for the 'casual' visitor in the hope they are impressed enough to keep coming back. |
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I feel the club officials have been very active in the pursuit of attracting new fans hence this post to explore new avenues, I can't see us pinching many fans from Blackburn or Burnley, creating fans from non football enthusiasts is even more remote, if the attendance cannot be rectified then maybe there is the option of increased income from use of the club facilities
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It's a pity that Stanley's home matches are on the same Saturday's as the Rovers because I know quite a few Rovers fans who would go to watch Stanley otherwise.
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Although more of a league based issue, I coached football in the US for the Galaxy and Revolution academies in the late 90's/ early 00's and saw how they built up attendances to what they are now.
The main thing noticeable was the whole experience such as the day starting with fans football games in the mornings, inflatable football table (where kids strap themselves in), free raffles, etc. However, the main thing was people were encouraged to set up their own BBQ's etc and make a day of it with players walking around meeting the kids and the like. Inside the ground the kids were kept involved with free face painting, song sheets (similar to what the barmy army do) and the chance to have a penalty competition on the pitch beforehand, which was amazing at the Rosebowl. The biggest winner was they gave you a voucher with a players name on it and if he scored first then you won a prize of the day. It could be a tiny scarf, burger from a local take-away (Free advertising in return) but it meant the kids learnt the players and as such if they saw them in the city then they would make a big deal of them. Anyway not been the Crown for a few years as I'm now in Perth but it seems similar. Perth Glory try similar stuff but give all boarding houses and schools lots of tickets about 2 weeks prior or give free tickets for all on the 1st game of the season to encourage people down. They also have fanfest's and the like and the ticket used to include free public transport meaning that people travelled a fair distance to attend. |
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I wonder how many of the 100 or so ex Great Harwood Town regulars we have managed to attract.
Went out of business same year as we got back in the league. |
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All well and good giving tickets to schools and I understand the logic, get em young etc, but what about targeting workplaces, give away tickets every week to a local firm, get them to sponsor the man of match, its not like they will be taking a paying customers seat.
Now it looks like this ship has sailed for a least a season but the Burnley/Bburn derby twice a season should be £10 offer game, if they play Saturday move it to Friday or Sunday. And on the subject of Friday games please please use your brain and arrange them either early or late in the season when the weather has at least a chance of being fine, walkons dont want to leave the house in the ****ing down rain on a cold winter night!!! |
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Well this really is the million dollar question..........
My humble opinion.... As others have said, during our conference/ unibond days we used to the "cheap" local option for the casual supporter, especially when Rovers or Burnley where on a long away trip. No doubt our esteemed ex-chairman Mr Whalley didnt help the situation with his total lack of knowledge in marketing the club. Along with the well publicized financial situation/ betting scenario having a HUGE detrimental effect on local peoples attitude to the club. Unfortunately as prices have risen along with our league status, so the economy has dipped meaning money is tighter for everybody. Make no mistake its just not a stanley problem. In the early 90's when I used to love Man U as a kid you had to apply for tickets for EVERY single home league fixture, as well as joining the official supporters club, and even then you chances of success where only 1 in 4. Now you can get a ticket for almost every game at old trafford quite easily, with the exception of Champions League knockout stages and Manchester derby etc etc. Even looking at my situation, its a 270 mile round trip to come to a home game, a journey which I didnt used to think twice about making every other weekend. But as the purse strings have become tighter ive also had to cut back. (£50 in fuel before I even think about match ticket, pie etc etc) Yes our match ticket prices are the joint cheapest in the league on most games, but lets be honest our facilities are of a much poorer standard to the rest of League 2, especially now the likes of Macclesfield have been relegated. Is a new ground the answer?? Ultimately yes... but at what cost??? and will it attract a hoard of new fans?? Morecambe's new ground is a good facility but it hasn't exactly ignited their attendances either. If rumours are to be believed they are still paying for it now, and will be for a long time. A burden which im 100% we cant afford. The Ultra's , with all their displays and enthusiasm used to be a massive draw for particularly the younger generation, but since the flags etc have mostly gone its stunted their growth in numbers. Also agree with the point about stewarding which at times I have seen is absolutely dreadful, both in terms of attitude and professionalism. So what would I do............? 1. Continue with the Hyndburn and Ribble Valley schools push, it WILL eventually pay dividens. 2. Somehow try and sort the ultras/ flag situation. 3. Re-educating the stewards on how to be a proper steward, ask Wycombe Wanderers for advice, without doubt the best. 4. Keep prices at a flat £15/£10/£5/£2 (With exception of big cup games) 5. 10 games for £100 needs to come back if possible. 6. More marketing for the lounge and hospitality (Faye) 7. A "subscription" based internet account (Stanley plus or something), £10 a year maybe gets you "inside" access to extra interviews at training or into competition entries.? I will try and add more to this when I can think some more things up. |
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Nail on the head dabeast.;)
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Only the club and a few over zealous safety officers to thank for that :)
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Maybe its time for an olive branch?
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I am not sure that the Ultras situation is relevant. I have been trying to find average attendance details since we were promoted. I am sure someone will have them (?Macca). But from figures I have looked at, our average attendance in 2008/9 was 1415 and in 2012/13 it was 1539. I cannot guarantee that these figures are correct. If they are, they seem to suggest that the Ultras "problem" does not help the debate.
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I think the atmosphere created by the Ultras had a big effect on the atmosphere on the Clayton End, Think it made part timers want too come back?
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then a lung full of smoke bomb ,agree with revived red
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It's good to see everyone scratching their heads and trying to come up with ideas.What about inviting local junior football teams to attend on a rota as ball boys then offer their parents,siblings etc. discounted tickets.I am sure parents,grand parents would want to see little Billy being ball boy,and having a rota could encourage a few to attend other games and gives Stanley the chance to recruit new fans of all ages.A few photos of this in the Observer could work wonders....
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I think that if money for making facilities became available priority has to be given to more hospitality boxes possibly Whinney hill side it is a money earner for most other clubs we have,nt got and is popular with people with a bit more money in their pockets and to sell to potential local buisness,s for their employee,s to use.3 to 400 people in boxes paying £40 each plus whatever they spend on the day is like another 1200 on the gate which never get.
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Like JT has said it's the club and the safety officers that ruined the ultras . At the end of the day it's not as easy as the ultras to 'come back' , it's not a boy band! Some lads have gone university , some lads don't come on Stanley anymore , some of the younger ones watch other teams now and some lads play football now on a Saturday! We still try to make an atmosphere home and away with flags or no flags but like I have said , the club ruined the group and it's very hard to revive such support now a lot of lads have dwindled.
Also don't agree with some people complaining about the smoke but applauding the ultras. An ultras group is all about showing passion for your club with colour and noise and this would include with flags , vocals and pyro (smoke). If people didn't have a passion or interest for that kind of thing there wouldn't be a group. But yes the smoke is illegal and the people who let it off know the consequences' and are right to receive it if caught! Agree with Smudgie about the ground! For me this is the only option to revitalise the club from being a cheap non league walk on club to a club moving with the times and building up a bigger town support! Location is key! But it could backfire! |
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2006/07 2260 2007/08 1633 2008/09 1424 2009/10 1976 2010/11 1859 2011/12 1784 2012/13 1663 2013/14 1564 (so far) first season syndrome and away clubs ticking us off will account for the large first year, then decline, decline, then promotion and SOS season, then decline for four years on the trot. Perhaps a fresh approach is needed? Instead of trying to lure extra bodies in, which despite improved methods of trying, is evidently failing, why not make a concerted effort to KEEP fans? No matter what the game there are always new bodies on the ground, this is where the effort should lie, how best to try to get them to come back? Fix the leaking roves (roofs) it's really not that expensive. Keep the toilets in good clean repair. Entertain the kids more with clowns, face painting or whatever. Try to set a budget per game that is to be spent on keeping fans coming back and stick to that budget every game for a season. £1000 per game? In the grand scheme of things its not a lot of money to spend and could a very long way. No short term fixes, ie "we'll try it once and see what happens, if it doesn't work we'll not do it again" |
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I think the general gist of that has merit but lets not forget that every £40 has a chunk of expense for meals etc to come out of that. Does make you wonder though if the concentration should be on getting more money out of a few instead of trying to get hundreds more on the gate. Given the general view of apathy, demographics and the numerous ticket offers where even giving tickets away doesn't generate interest, maybe trying to up the walk on attendance isn't worth the effort and that effort needs to be applied to other forms of income generation to ensure the clubs ability to stay at this level and maybe even higher ? |
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Very interesting watching the posts unfurl plenty of food for thought for the Club to chew over.
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The clubhouse is massively underused
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Thanks for those attendance figures Macca. As I suspected, the presence or absence of the Ultras has no bearing on the overall figures.
I think we can discount (for now) the grand schemes of developing corporate facilities. They may be fine in years to come but design + the planning process + construction means they would be a long time coming - even assuming that we could afford them. I think Macca is correct in saying that we should make a much bigger effort to keep those who do come. I may be wrong - and someone will correct me if I am - but I would have thought that simple development behind the Clayton End and Coppice End would be relatively straightforward. What we urgently need for home and away fans, especially families, is somewhere warm and dry to go before the game, at half time and maybe even after the game. That is where the catering outlets and toilets should be. Let's be honest - what we have now is primitive in the extreme. Time to introduce some f words : Focus on Families and Facilities. |
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Please stop having a go at stewards. They have a difficult enough job to do and if they are giving you grief, then I would look to what you are doing wrong for them to give you grief. They are only upholding ground regulations. These affect all clubs and is a difficult enough job to do without you pushing the limits etc. Also, if you bring young kids, keep them under control! Don't let them run up and down the fronts of the stands.
Another point made by others, clean up the facilities. The toilet blocks are pretty disgusting on match days, hardly and advert for a family friendly football club! Food outlets are another issue, the prices in them (and I believe they are private) has gone through the roof and is now extortionate. This does not encourage the match day experience of a pie and a pint when it costs an arm and a leg to purchase. One of my personal favourite match day experiences was Kidderminsters food outlets, int he words of Jim Bowen, Super, smashing, great and very tasty too Also the idea of free tickets in local firms is a good idea to promote the club. I know Blackburn Hawks tried a similar thing with my workplace (and I work in Preston), but it worked and I have gone to other matches since. I mean, Studio Cards off Henry Street and Junction 7 Business Park. I am sure we could pick up some supporters from these 2 sites. Encouraging local supporters of other football clubs is also an idea. I know it is one we have done on Friday night matches, but what about midweek and Saturdays when the other teams may have long away matches. It is not going to work for all games but the club can only try and get other teams supporters to adopt the club as their 2nd team |
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Some good ideas on here. I suspect it will be the small improvements and innovations that are most viable.
On the question of attendances, it may be interesting to put things into perspective. As Lancsdave has stated often, it's down to demographics. As a % of the Borough population, Stanley's average attendance is just under 2%. This the same as Northampton's, a much bigger city and wealthier part of the country. Dagenham's, who I regard as Stanley's southern twin, ratio is just under 1%. Clubs like Torquay, Cheltenham, Wycombe, and Plymouth have a ratio of between 2.5 and 3%. Only Pompey stand out in League 2, with attendances that are over 6% of its population. Add to that a few facts, such as none of those clubs having 'rivals' within 5 miles and Hyndburn's population is static if not declining. Obviously, good form will add to the crowd, but probably not by many. My view is that supporting Stanley is an exclusive activity, and one for those who appreciate loyalty over reflected glory, tribe over franchise, and football over soccertainment. Anyone can sit at home and 'support' one bunch of Premier League foreigners or another. But, after 40+ years out of the League, if only 'The Few' have the privilege of supporting Stanley, then so be it. Let's enjoy it for as long as it, or we, last. |
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We are having to move/cancel usage to accomodate reviews, business league meetings etc. Available for hire at weekends.:) |
Re: How to increase attendances?
Interesting reading with some good ideas to attract new punters and to look after existing.
Looking after existing fans is the one that the club can do more of, with clubhouse being a case in point. Having, quite rightly, sought to increase the hospitality numbers coming on for games this has created an issue with the fans who use the bar area either before the game or half time. Once upon a time the club would let you know in advance whether the bar would be open or not at these times. Those who wanted a pint beforehand (as the Crown can get way too busy) could then make alternative arrangements if they wished. This notice seems to have stopped. Take the re-arranged Morecambe game for example - a group of us who have been season ticket holders for donkeys years (and like a pint or two) thought that given the fact this was our derby game and some ex-players had been invited, the clubhouse would be shut beforehand and half time. We had a pint elsewhere, only to find the bar open when we arrived. At half time we asked if it had been busy before the game and no was the reply. I'd much rather put funds behind the clubs bar then elsewhere and whilst I'm not saying it will generate loads of money, its clearly a £ or two being missed, which all adds up. The same can be said when the clubhouse is shut for hospitality, in that there are no other arrangements made for "fans" in the main stand to have a pint and spend more £'s. Clearly the hospitality should be pushed but it seems to be at the expense of the regular fans and goes back to point about the overall experience. Its not rocket science to fix it but just needs a bit of "thinking ahead". |
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From macca's post above yours #64 and the like hits, for that post, it looks like many of us were under the apprehension that the clubhouse was not used very much and so under the circumstances could you let us know what goes on in the clubhouse mid-week and if those functions held are profitable |
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Must say it surprised me big time.
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Re: How to increase attendances?
Working with the tools and information that you have at your disposal is crucial. Whenever anyone interacts with you then ask why? Be brave enough to keep it and the next time an occasion or opportunity arises then use this "list" to communicate...
Soccer Schools Ticketing Merchandise Sports Bar Hire Hospitality These are all ways a supporter wants to interact with the club, if you can harness why and discover the propensity to renew/purchase again then the problem is half cracked. Its literally as simple as a shared excel sheet. Asking for feedback and listening is the cornerstone of any business, using this to formulate the plan to improve is massive, every aspect of the supporter journey, from travelling to the game, parking, purchasing tickets, facilities and customer services sticks in the mind as an experience. Act on it and use the data which has been collected to market to these groups...engage and communicate.. costs nothing but time and effort. Once the building blocks are in place and used effectively then you can begin to introduce the club to the wider supporting audience.. Build it, make it good and they will come.. |
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Conferences, board meetings etc I suspect may raise a hire fee of sorts but unless you are adding in catering fee's they won't bring in a substantial revenue primarily because the room is far too large for most functions and there is only one of it. When I say it is massively underused I am getting at the fact that, as probably the largest turnover company providing function facilities in the borough, it should be the brightest, best, and first thought of venue to hold a function for 200 people. Brooks Club, Enfield or Accy Cricket club, Pop club and any number of other venues are booked fairly solid all year round - and on the nights they aren't they put their own show on. As far as I know we don't have anyone who has their finger firmly on the pulse to run the club (house) as a club. A venue of that size should quite comfortably be looking to turnover £10k every single weekend PLUS matchday revenue. I don't believe the building needs major change to facilitate that (although the bar could be bigger) but it does need a designated staffie to do it, not a barman or barmaid, but a proper Manager who is paid a wage and profit share. "hello is that ......, its Accrington Stanley here, you held your 18th with us almost three years ago and I was wondering if you would like to book us for your 21st?" Accrington has few places that look for high ticket functions, we could fill that gap. Unfortunately the civic theatre has just become a Jason Manford venue so that ship has sailed, but maybe it could also provoke a rekindling of the love of a good comedy night? Sunday night comedy show at the 1968 bar? (no jokes about Saturday afternoon comedy shows please) There is no designated darts venue in the vicinity, yet it could quite easily become a darts tournament venue with clever thinking. A pop-up stage, an overhead projector capable of broadcasting close-ups to multiple screens around the room. Dartists are considerably cheaper to hire than a comedian yet are still capable of packing the room out with 160 seated pishpots. It's all been said before and will all be said again until someone at the club realises that investment has to be found and injected into infrastructure rather than players. Alas, it will always go on players in the hope that we can keep our league status. |
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attract!
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Re: How to increase attendances?
Arrgh.
Just sent an hour typing some reply's and lost internet connection!! Coffee and try again |
Re: How to increase attendances?
:)2nd attempt; hold internet please!
Clubhouse is used mainly by the Trust during the week as their education base. Used for "good causes" on Wednesday's. Business League needs to be developed to ensure ASFC gain better benefits. Hospitality needs to be developed on the "average" game, but then the main stand regular is asked to no use. I'm a fan of it being split, but take on board the need to publise it earlier. Will speak to Faye and Dan. Sorry we need to agree to differ on stewarding and ground regs. Come and see what Cliff and I do on match days. We doin't make the rules up!! Agree things could have been dealt with better in the past but that was 3 seasons ago. Flags have to be made of flame proof material. Flares and fireworks are illegal. Some stage soon a club will be fined by the FA for "permitting" their use in a ground. Lost count of "warnings" we've had this year. If you have concerns abouts a stewards behaviour please talk to a supervisor and make a note of their "bib number". We recently had a complaint about Steward 46 from an away fan. Happy to report we only have bibs numbered up to 42. By entering a stadium you agree to abide by ground regs and the match day safety officers word is final. If you want the responsibilty for everybodies safety in the ground I'm happy to let somebody be inspected in the role to see if they are any good! School schools and junior football teams are all sorted by the Trust Shop plus merchandising are now with LancsDave:) Toilets are as good as they will get in my view unless we spend a fortune on new build. A new floor was fitted in the gents this summer; thanks OSC:) Will post this before connection goes! |
Re: How to increase attendances?
Clubhouse is under the Control of Will and Emma Gilmartin, as well as the Crown
Seem to remember a darts night being run by OSC? When is the next OSC meeting? Perhaps a good platform to discuss things face to face? |
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Next one will be in May once a date has been set and will be the AGM. |
Re: How to increase attendances?
A friend of mine that supports Nuneaton was telling me about some of the activities they have going on in their clubhouse.
Every Xmas they have a "Fifa" day/ night held in the clubhouse, with 64+ players entering a virtual FA Cup tournament. £5 to enter, with 50% of profits going to the club and the other going to the eventual winner. After a few hours with 60 odd people drinking and eating im sure it could be an easy money maker??? I would be willing to organise this...... |
Re: How to increase attendances?
I’m a Burnley fan who has a soft spot for Stanley. Simply put, I think it’s not getting new faces through the gates (I think you do this) but the whole match day experience its self and keeping them coming back for more. I have a number of points listed below:
• The Food is rubbish and over priced from the bacteria vans. I don’t even think the cash goes to the club but I think most walk-ons don’t know that, which gives the club a bad name. Could the club not do this themselves? Just needs one person in charge and a load of teenagers wanting a part-time job (which there are loads out there). The Hospitality food as well I believe is ran by Burnley FC. Could the food not be done by The Crown? • You need more teenagers to come on and I believe the Ultras can play a big part in doing that (again). I grow up in Accrington but went to go and watch Burnley as a teenager. There used to be around 25 of us, all friends and from the Spring Hill area that used to jump on the train to go and watch each home game. Burnley was rubbish back then but it was more about feeling and being part of a group than watching rubbish football. We are all grown up now but most of us still go on to the Turf and are season ticket holders. Most of us have kids of our own who are also season ticket holders too. My nephew is now a teen and does exactly what we did (apart from he’s watching far better football than we ever did), he goes on with a big group of his mates. I think if you can get unofficial supporters groups going on this would attract teenagers (just like the Ultras did). They already hang around in “gangs” the trick is getting these gangs on to the ground. Better than hanging around on the street. • Back in the day I use to play for the Burnley fans team who played in the morning before every Burnley FC game (home and away) against the team the real clarets were playing that day. All the players, their WAGS, children, relatives and friends came down to watch, went to the pub after and then on to the real game. Livingston Rd ground is right next to Stanley so is the crown pub. I’m sure the club could get a number of teams (Bury had 3 teams back when I played) with supporters playing in them up and running. • Should stewards be there to assist you and be helpful? There are a number of times I’ve been to watch Stanley and this has not been the case. Although I could say the same about the Burnley stewards at the minute. • Before, during and after the game where is Winstanley? The younger kids need entertaining. I’m sure you could pay that poor lad walking up and down the entrance of Asda with that board around him to become Winstanley for games and maybe walk around the town centre advertising the next game. • I 100% believe that if you are to do any promotion offers in the future you need to give a lot more notice as many others have said on hear. • Why not use the 3rd year students at UCFB. They could come in on placements with new fresh ideas as they are doing a degree in Football Business. |
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Yes smudgie!!! this is along the lines of what I envisaged to make extra revenue but now Mr. T informs us that the clubhouse is used everyday through the week, with this in mind it looks like there is little opportunity for money raising from such activities in the clubhouse |
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UCFB is a great call and we're are already getting great help from Rachael Brown and the team. We've 4 interns assisting in the Academy.
Another avenue to explore.:) |
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UCFB is a good shout - along the same lines you've got the University of Manchester less than an hour away (and that's using public transport)
MBS(The business school in UoM) is one of the best out there - might be worth contacting them - perhaps an interesting project for a post-grad ? |
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.............. im sure if its booked in advance it cant be busy EVERY day around Xmas time?!
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Community don't use it other than NCS courses during the college/school holidays.
The Academy are oblidged to do a number of mandatory training sessions so again the Sportsbar is used (we must provide a venue under EPPP rules) All ideas will be passed on :) |
Re: How to increase attendances?
I would like to add my views as a long time fan/previous employee.
On Stewarding: Mark an I have had numerous disagreements in the past on this issue, we almost never agree but I always come out of the discussion knowing a lot more than when it started. They have a really tough job in upholding some pretty extreme ground regulations but I think the true failure is not properly communicating with fans. There are frankly, too many rude stewards. The issue is not what they are doing it is how they are doing it. People stood in the walkway will happily move if asked nicely, but from my experience they rarely are. We have some great stewards at ASFC but unfortunately I believe they are outnumbered by the ones that have no issue with either being apathetic to the customers/fans experience or are blatantly aggressive or rude. This is something that has gone on for a long time is in my experience actually getting worse as the steward/fan relationship deteriorates, especially on the Clayton end. On getting fans in: Giving free/cheap to kids is a must and should be kept up, I honestly think he crowds would be much more embarrassing if the club had not been doing this over the last 8 or so years. Giving free/cheap to adults is almost pointless, there are too many who do not value Stanley enough to pay. We need to add VALUE to the experience rather than lowering the price. Too many walk away with bad experiences that have nothing to do with the result. On the OSC: I have been a long time critic of the OSC and will continue to be if it continues to exist as it does. The fans decided to cancel the meeting because the Founders Lounge was unexpectedly locked up? The Crown is literally a 2 minute walk away! The OSC has for a long time committed more time to criticisng the club than doing any hard graft to help it. I think there are good intentions but they rarely come to anything positive. The numbers at OSC meetings are shockingly low and that is because fans do not value what goes on. I am not blaming anyone individually, but seriously, 5 or 6 people turning up to meetings for the OFFICIAL supporters club, then cancelling rather than seeking refuge in a different nearby location? To summarise, people bring people. The club can do any sort of promotion (Torquay game for free didn't even fill the ground) but in reality the only thing that is going to increase attendances is if we as fans pressure people we know to come along, pay their money and get hooked. We need to make it part of peoples routine. The supporters club needs to start generating support, the stewards need to learn how to speak to people and we need a cup run. Adios :) |
Re: How to increase attendances?
Agree with the 10 games for £100. It is a great idea but needs to advertised before start of season e.g. on the boards used to advertise forth coming fixtures around Accrington. Another good idea. Last year the flexi ticket idea was not advertised well enough.
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Re: How to increase attendances?
Mr.T
You have demonstrated what is wrong with the club. Its clear you have a stewarding problem but instead you deny this is the case and thing all is wonderful in the land of hi-vis bibs. Eric Whalley was right about one thing, I wouldn't pay them with washers either. |
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Consequently there are stewards at every ground to uphold these rules. THEY are NOT the same at each ground. Nor are their methods of upholding. Others have said Wycombe stood out as an example of good stewarding. The answer is not to hide behind the rules. |
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Sir thanks for your kind advice!!
As per Accy web no stewards no game:rolleyes: Lets me up and improve ??:( |
Re: How to increase attendances?
Great thread which has generated loads of posts and demonstrates how special our club is and how special our supporters are, moving on from increasing attendances to increasing revenue. My two penneth worth:
- we need to play to our strengths and identify our unique selling point. We're the smallest club in the league, so get folk to adopt us as their second club. Discount tickets for Rovers and Burnley season ticket holders, prey on dissolutioned Rovers fans offering a return to 'real' football, market Stanley around Ewood and Turf in a campaign that says we're not in direct competition with you. - get some PhD/degree marketing students in as part of their dissertations and get them to give some specific advice - need to get a more community feel around the club and a place where people want to come with friends and families - loads of great ideas that club should follow up - consider an experienced bar manager, free tickets, fans events, property developer to develop cowshed into more corporate type facilities and share profits, - stewards are part of match day experience and I've not suffered at hands of our stewards like others seem to have. They are only doing their job, there is loads of regulations that most of us are unaware of - it doesn't stop them having as mile of their faces, creating a rapport with fans and being courteous. Stewards I came across at Rochdale recently were friendly but firm. - the Ultras are important. You couldn't be anything but impressed at the display on the Newcastle game. The flags, the banners, the movement, the noise all create an atmosphere. If not the original lads, do any new lads want to take up the mantle? - get a couple of players working in club shop, manning phone lines for enquiries /ticket sales every Wed afternoon on a rota system - get some afternoon leadership and management surgeries with James Beattie for local business people. What's his ethos, how does he keep the group motivated, etc - a Sportsmans Dinner Will keep thinking. |
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Some positive points about the Stanley experience. The atmosphere (noise)created on the Clayton end is sometimes fantastic. The free tickets to school kids and players visiting school are good ideas, realistic ticket prices both multi tickets and £15 a game are fair, the advertising boards around town also good.
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Loads of good ideas;
Attendances used to be better, so the interest is there but for whatever reason people have stopped coming. I think there are two main reasons. 1)Matchday experience 2)Club promotion. I've been watching from the Clayton End for years and in recent years it isn't as enjoyable as it used to be. As others have mentioned we need to use Winstanley every game. The Storefirst Man gets loads of attention on matchdays it would be nice to see those kids having their picture took with Winstanley aswell! The Crossbar challenge we used to do at half time was always good fun.....the prize doesnt have to be a lot, a couple of tickets or something. This season I've seen stewards shouting at kids, did those kids enjoy their day at the football? Posters with the wrong kick off times on....on numerous occasions. I follow a number of clubs on twitter who post things everyday, several times a day, usually nonsense but people read them and are interested. Social media is the future we may as well embrace it, I have read the small column in the Accy Observer about the community team. The club should get these good news stories as visible as possible. It will all help develop a community club image. |
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What a pathetic reply. |
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sorry, rather tired after a few hours rest.
Would rather talk, face to face; it's what I think I'm good at;) |
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You clearly won't listen.
Don't worry, Ozzy outback will be back on soon to tell us the stewards do an amazing job, are under paid, have human rights and should get a round of applause. Keep your head in the sand. |
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Firstly and interestingly your Avitar is of the Family Excellence Award something as a fan I was rightly please the Club got because that is what the criteria is for it is now a few years since we received one so that tells it's own story.
On the OSC: I have been a long time critic of the OSC and will continue to be if it continues to exist as it does. The fans decided to cancel the meeting because the Founders Lounge was unexpectedly locked up? The Crown is literally a 2 minute walk away! It was locked and in darkness yes our meeting usually do include some directors and those who involved in the running of the Club who were minuted as normal about when the meeting was taking place and what time it would be. Two of us did go to the Crown where there was a weight watchers meeting taking place in one side and normal pub in the other so would have been difficult to have any sort of discussion. The OSC has for a long time committed more time to criticisng the club than doing any hard graft to help it. Lee to me a Supporters Club is not just about being a cash cow for the Club in my eyes it also has to represent fans views as a Football Club it is very difficult for Supporters to have their views heard come back to this thread in twelve months time and let's see what has been implemented. I think there are good intentions but they rarely come to anything positive. The numbers at OSC meetings are shockingly low and that is because fans do not value what goes on. With anything voluntarily these days it is hard for people to committ and that is what it is people's free time, we have had some brilliant people who have bent over backwards for the Club to help but when it's a one way street they walk away. I am not blaming anyone individually, but seriously, 5 or 6 people turning up to meetings for the OFFICIAL supporters club, then cancelling rather than seeking refuge in a different nearby location? See Above To summarise, people bring people. The club can do any sort of promotion (Torquay game for free didn't even fill the ground) but in reality the only thing that is going to increase attendances is if we as fans pressure people we know to come along, pay their money and get hooked. We need to make it part of peoples routine. The supporters club needs to start generating support, the stewards need to learn how to speak to people and we need a cup run. I agree we need to be as one but that starts with communication and transparency. The other thing is football fans are your paying customers and are entitled to their opinions it's what football is about whether it's on or off the pitch. Easy for people to walk away but a damn sight harder to get them back Adios :)[/QUOTE] |
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The OSC has tried to look for ways to work with the club, that is why some of the above has happened due to communication/ action between the OSC and the club. The OSC doesn't look to criticise the club unless there is genuine reasoning, simple as that. If you feel that you can make a difference to the way the OSC is run then you could be nominated at the AGM to take on a role within the OSC if you feel that is something you want to pursue. |
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