Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

To be fair Accrington have relied on many loan players so keeping on playing the two lads is not dissimilar. Loyalty is two way Matt Cook got mercilessly slaughter by some on here when he had an ordinary start when forced to play out of position, I even heard him get booed during his second game. Can anyone honestly blame the two for moving to a much bigger club, for more money and a longer contract? The career enhancement angle is surely a big carrot when getting players to come to the club.

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

There's an interesting article on today's Times about Oxford Utd and Michael Appleton's team analysts. The following is a quote;
"Most significant are those key indicators which...determine how likely you are to get out of League Two. There is, their numbers tell them, a direct correlation between how many 50-50 challenges that you win and how many points you get. Every tackle won, in other words, has a direct impact on the chances of promotion".
I'm sure Professor Coleman knows this, without having to employ a full time analyst.
So, if Crooks and Windass do get selected, I'm sure they know what will be expected from them by the club and its fans.

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

I know I've only been a Stanley 'fan' since last season but for what little it's worth here is what I think.
What has shocked me most about all of this is the vitriol which some Stanley supporters currently have pouring out of their mouths. Some of the comments on social media in particular have been downright nasty.
I also think the way things have been put across by official sources on social media have been extremely naive at best.
For those who think that the lads should be dropped and never play for us again... WTF? That is simply a classic case of 'biting off one's nose to spite face' Even someone as new to things as I am can see that there is no one to replace Crooks within the current squad and dropping him would be damaging to the team and the teams chances of promotion.
The club may have hoped for a better outcome to the always inevitable loss of Crooks and Windass but it is what it is and surely the thing to do is make the best of it? If the lads aren't dragged out of the club and burnt at the stake which seems to be the preferred option for some then... hopefully commonsense will prevail, our good form will continue and come the end of the season we will be in with a shout of promotion.
Josh and Matt go with my best wishes and I look forward to see who the club and management recruit for next season.

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

Thats the difference mate yeh acted within existing rules, which to anyone with a grain of sense, are poor at the best, and only a club with no class would do it the way rangers have imho.

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

Given their evidently accepted (relative) star status, it'll be hard for JC not to play them if they're still on our wagebill, unless/until they show they're not willing to put a proper shift in. What worries me is the prospect of having even a half-decent season in League 1 without two individuals who are seen as having made a critical contribution to us gaining promotion, if we had to pay their true value and match their new wages to get hold of satisfactory replacements. So hopefully they are not actually as good as JC's been saying they are ... I think :confused:

It would have been nice to think they would have considered the impact on Stanley by choosing to go this way, but realistically that's too much to hope for in today's me-first culture :rolleyes:

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

We sent the club an email saying we are looking to talk to them, what more could you want, the full contract details? The way your director is acting on twitter is classless if anything. I don't see the reasoning for such a large amount of abuse towards Rangers, we never wrote the rules. If it makes us "classless" so be it but I don't understand why they wished we communicated a contract through the club as it is between the player and Rangers, nothing to do with Stanley as they already knew they wanted to leave.

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

it does make you classless, if yeh think thats the way to do things, says even more to me that you are failing to grasp this. so be it.:rolleyes:

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

Jesus Christ - A Rangers Fan calling one of our Directors "classless" :eek:

Most of yours are in Barlinnie :D

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

You are failing to grasp the concept of the Bosman ruling ":rolleyes:" Like I said, we notified the club we were engaging in discussions, what more could the club want? You offered them a contract, they rejected it, we offered them one and they accepted it, get over it. Its just sheer bitterness now as yous are losing out on a fee.

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

Rangers might not have, technically, done anything wrong but surely there is a certain moral etiquette that should be observed - I would have thought that with all the dodgy dealings etc that have been associated with your club & what your fans have had to go through because of such goings on that Rangers fans would have some empathy with our fans who feel rightly aggrieved at the way Stanley have been treated

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

Not bitterness at all its fairness summat you dont seem to be able to grasp.:rolleyes:

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

That's the key issue in the whole scenario.......instead of asking politely if Rangers could speak to the pair ( which I'm sure if an e-mail was indeed sent, nobody in the higher infrastructure of A.S.F.C. would have objected to, ) your club has just imposed its will regardless.:mad:

As for "thousands of clubs" signing players on pre-contracts, methinks that is a somewhat exaggerated statement. It happens.....but most clubs use a bit of diplomacy when approaching such a situation, i.e. asking politely for permission to speak to the player(s).

That is why it is "classless".:rolleyes:

And yes.....in response to your "edit"....I know the F.I.F.A. rules regarding this situation. The whole scenario is down to a third rate Belgian lower league footballer, who in his eyes, wanted the right to free movement at the end of a contract. The fact that Bosman opened up a whole financial can of worms for smaller clubs seems to be forgotten.:confused:

The reality that the scenario can be exploited is what sticks in the throat. You've cherry picked our two key performers; and got them both for what will probably amount to be next to nothing when compensation is awarded. At a time in the season where the whole situation could possibly de-rail our promotion bid.:mad:

Rangers have just ridden roughshod over A.S.F.C. to secure their signatures ..........to get two promising young footballers on the cheap.:mad:

Thats why it stinks.:mad:

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

We showed morale etiquette by emailing yous which we were in no way obligated today, I genuinely don't understand what else you expected us to do. Stanley haven't been treated in any way badly, yes I understand you will be gutted at losing two good players for next to nothing, but that is in no way Rangers or Warburtons fault.

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

I am trying to keep out of this as much as possible since I follow both clubs and have done for quite a few years but part of the problem here is that it's Accy Stanley and the way things are done can often seem far removed from the real world at times.

That is part of the magic about Stanley and part of the the reason people are attracted to them. Football like other businesses have moved on and changed and not always for the better. Pre Bosman Clubs could effectively freeze players out of the game by retaining their registrations and not allowing them to sign for other clubs but still not pay them. That suited clubs becuase players either had to sign new contracts or not get paid if they couldn't find a club to pay for them. Post Bosman and European employment law the balance has swung the other way and now players hold all the cards and agents hawk them around clubsfor more money and a percentage.

On the question of how Rangers approached this, and I would say this about any other team too, is the way businesses conduct affairs. gone are the days of telephone calls and chats as well as letters. Business is conducted by email in the real world. I don't go into work to a pile of letters or telephone messages it's dozens of emails. I don't get bills through the post anymore it's emails, bank statements - nope emails and as for payslips at work more bloody emails.

If rangers were trying to sign them other than by a Bosman then yes I would agree that they way it was done would be wrong but that's not the case. I have also watched Rangers lose players under a Bosman or have to be sold for less than their worth because the contract was coming to an end and it is "annoying" but with European employment law it's unlikely this will change. It is more likely that transfer fees will be scraped altogether and that will have more effect.

The best outcome here is Stanley and Rangers agree a sensible fee given what the outcome will be in the summer and Coley gets the money to strengthen the team.

Getting back to the football I think it would be best to replace Windass with McCarten at least and perhaps Conneely could take over the Crooks role. What ever happens letts not forget that this is one of only two seasons where relegation is not an option. As I and others have said before losing player who have done well at the end of the season is nothing new and neither is replacing them. Now lets get back to following the team because this may be a setback but in terms of previous seasons it pales into insignificance because the club is safe and debt free unlike some previous years.

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

Rangers are only following rules mark Warburton is professional as they come. This story appeared months ago,so why all the furore now I remember reading along the same lines that rangers were very interested that was in November. The last time rangers were interested in a player ,the team from the dark side ,(Celtic) signed him and have left him on the bench. That is why rangers don't conduct their business in public. If Stanley could do this they would or should because it would be in the best interests of Stanley as a club to get the best deal for themselves . the best scenario would be rangers give Stanley 200,000 tax bill paid play a friendly raise a bit more cash for Stanley. Plus it would be a good excuse to pop down to accy .:)

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

It matters not what happens now, it cannot be changed, what matters is the second half of this season,simple as, we just gotta keep at it and see where it takes us,

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

What's done is done just think the extra revenue Stanley will get when every rangers supporter in a 30 mile radius pops over to see Josh and crooks.

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

Indeed it is. One things for sure it won't be down and there's still no reason it can't be up.

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

I have every confidence in coley finding replacement's and let's hope it spurs Stanley onwards and upwards.

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

My last words on the subject cos as others have said, what's done is done & we have to get on with our season but I can't help but wonder if Rangers fans would feel no wrong has been done if the boot was on the other foot?
Except that wouldn't happen because, despite their difficulties, Rangers are still seen as a big club & they & others like them will always be able to screw over smaller clubs like Stanley - it's just sad that it's allowed to happen but that's football & indeed life.

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

Rangers will collect 420 grand for winning the Championship but there is a question of 250 grand of this potentially being withheld for past dodgy payments to players outside of the rules. Morality? It would be nice to think that the ex-London City financial wizard that is the Rangers manager could excercise a little magnaninity in the case of little old Stanley. Coley has had the rug pulled out from under him yet again and faces some difficult decisions, however things pan out, but I would expect him to just get on with it as usual and use the situation as a motivational tool. Last season at the Crown he was just about the only one not calling Crooks "Stanley's worst ever player, with the honourable exception of Football19, although I think he had inside info second hand from the training sessions!
Whenever I feel a bit gloomy about all this I just get a laugh by going onto Shrimpsvoices, where most, but not all posters, are gloating about our situation. They actually seem to be worried that a big club could come in for their "Star Players" Who could they possibly mean???

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

I wouldn't read too much into that because Scottish football is rotten from top to bottom and in the process of hating it's self to death. One of the reasons why I spend more time watching Stanley than going to games in Scotland now.

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

Ok, so 2 of the squad are leaving - doubt Rangers have broken any rules. Nobody can be anything but pleased for the 2 young lads. I think what most are miffed about is the 'lack of transparency' when we would expect better, having been instrumental in showcasing the talent they exercised. Doubt Matt and Josh will be comfortable with this but suspect they were given no option by a parasitic agent. To my mind the burning issue revolves around the degree of effort by the lads, who must feel demob happy to some extent. Bear in mind that their 'close-knit' team mates and John 'n Jimmy should ensure usual commitment but should performance levels drop then they cannot be surprised if benched as doubt any 'training fee' payable is worth missing out on a top 7 finish.
Onwards and upwards, not really bothered with the squad we have who gets the starting shirts . No particular favourites with me - although Pierro never fails to excite this ex-school lad winger.

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

There's multiple angles to this. Rangers haven't broken any rules. You can't blame the 2 lads for wanting to better themselves as its only a short career. Our club are the real losers here as we won't get any financial compensation for the development work they've put into the players, so we should look to lobby the English and Scottish FAs (or UEFA) to consider a recipricol agreement to avoid a future situation like this for smaller clubs.

Calling for the players not to be selected is petty on our part as to date this season, Coley has selected them in his first 11 and nothing should change in this regard, after all, we've been pretty successful so far.

It's in everyone's best interests for the 2 lads to continue to perform at the level they've shown this season. Our club benefits as it aids our promotion push and there's no doubt Rangers will be keeping a close eye on the pair - any dip in commitment and performance levels won't reflect good on Windass and Crooks as it may lead Warburton and his team to question their attitude, never mind the obligation they owe the club for taking a risk on them. They're being paid by us, so are obligated to perform. I'm sure their professional pride won't let their standards slip.

Let's concentrate on moving forward. It's a fact of life with our club that we'll continue to be a stepping stone for players - that's just where we are in the food chain. I remember when Rory Prendergast left and I thought we'd struggle to replace him - Gary Roberts came in. Our manager has a proven track record of unearthing gems and I'm sure he'll do it again - as an example, he saw something in Matty Crooks that none of us did and look at him now.

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

It is a FIFA guidance that governs the "training compo". We do get money but it is next to nothing as training costs are worked out according to he level of the clubs involved.

Stanley are category 4 Rangers are currently category 3 but category 2 if promoted. Therefore we get 35,000 euros per year (60,000 SPL + 10,000 LeagueTwo/2) up to 21 they were both at the club.

It looks like 52,500 Euros for Josh (18 months ish) and nothing for Matt based on my rough understanding. If we had them since the age of 12 it would be much more as it is based on each year but weighted towards the older years.

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

Another Rangers fan here:

You guys talk about "class" in transfers, want to know what we've suffered? Then let's talk of "class".

We lost the following players...and just as you say, it was by the rules but showed no class and morally wrong:

Steven Naismith - Signed by Everton. We signed him for £2 million. We got zero.

Steven Whittaker. - Signed by Norwich. We signed him for £2 million. We got zero.

Steve Davis - Signed by Southampton. We signed him for £3 million. We got zero. Southampton later gave us £500k out of pure guilt.

Kyle Lafferty - Signed by Sion, now at Norwich. We signed him for£4.5 million. We got zero.

Alan McGregor - Signed by some Turkish mob, now at Hull. Our regular goalkeeper, trained from a boy. We got zero.

As Rangers fans we know all about being shafted.

I'm sorry you guys feel the same but we were told at the time...thems the rules...suck it up. You've suffered FAR less.

So don't accuse us of a lack of class...English clubs royally screwed us over...

Our signing of 2 of yours when their contracts are about to run out ain't in the same league as what we suffered.

So chill guys, we're all football fans. As Rangers fans we know well beyond you what losing players for next to nothing is when legal but seems horribly unfair.

As it goes, I sympathise wholeheartedly with you but we're hardly to blame...the same rules have lost us FAR more than we've gained.

Stop hating on our club and fans...you've no idea the "lack of class" we've been shown.

Peace out Lu x

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

I tell you what has happened at rangers in the past this would have been nothing we have been fraudently bought liquidated ripped off by Ashley this is nothing. And Stanley have risen from the ashes for which similar happened . rangers ony followed the rules it has been common knowledge about rangers interest its been strange opening the papers up here and seeing the great accy Stanley on the pages.:)

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

If Stanley went into liquidation any decent player would leave rather than play 3 divisions below so there is no comparison.

If Rangers were in he lowlands league for 45 years we may have suffered less, but taking the two best midfielders off the lowest supported league club in England whilst claiming to be the most successful club in the world is very vulgar.

When we signed Gus Wilson you signed Mark Walters, slightly different reaction from the different sets of fans...

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

I think I know what you are implying and either you are at it or very missinformed unless you mean away fans. I know because I was there at Celtic Park and Tynecastle and it was a disgrace even in the 80s.

Normally I wouldn't get dragged into this as this is an Accy forum which is why I let the last one go but to imply racism by Rangers fans against Mark Walters is taking it too far.

A black day for Scots football - The Scotsman

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

"Coleman did admit however, that he was disappointed the way the news came out.

“I don’t get embroiled in social media but I do think going on and seeing the players had tweeted about ‘buzzing to play for a massive club’ is disrespectful to our fans.

“Our fans have backed them through thick and thin and I do think there should be more respect in place".



Well said Coley!!:cheers:



Compare this to Windass senior's bulls**t Daily Record article!:(

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

Absolute rubbish.....:mad:

With the exception of Davis (for whom I can't seem to find any info on Wiki) the other four players became free agents after your club went into liquidation, when all four chose not to join your "new club" and drop to the fourth tier of Scottish football. Their contracts with the "old" Rangers became defunct when your club went into liquidation. Hence they went where they did under totally different circumstances.

I've also trawled through pages of posts on Rangers forums.....from gloating Rangers fans.....quite happy with the fact that your club has turned us over. A lot of those posts show your "fans" in a true light.

Arrogant.:mad:

I also read with interest that Rangers have already supposedly inserted a "£3.5million release clause" into Windass' future contract.

Not bad business for a player you're getting on the cheap !!

There was not a lot Stanley could do after the players agent "pimped" them around. From that moment, the two players were never going to sign another contract at Stanley.:(

Stanley can't afford the wages that not only Rangers, but any bigger club could offer. We were already in a no win situation that meant we were going to lose both players for a pittance.

The decent thing to do as a club, would have been to ask for permission to speak to the players. Permission that no doubt would have been granted, albeit reluctantly.:o

Not send an e-mail to the club secretary telling him / her that you would be speaking to the players.:mad:

But your club went behind our Chairman's, owner's and manager's backs to sign the pair up on a loophole on the cheap. At a critical point in our season where promotion to the next level is an achievable goal.:mad:

This situation has the potential to not only ruin our season, but leave us extremely out of pocket in the long run.:mad:

No decent compensation for two promising players given a second chance by a club that needs to make money by unearthing such "gems" and selling them on at a profit. A club that has to live within it's means and try and survive on 1500 gates in the shadow of two more illustrious and better supported neighbours.:(

No potential sell on clauses benefiting A.S.F.C. should Rangers sell one or both on at a massive profit for Glasgow Rangers.

So I stand by my conviction that your club has no class when it came to dealing with these two signing for you. :mad::mad:

Your club has exploited both the rules and our predicament without even having the decency of asking for permission to shaft us.:mad:

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

the whole affair is just another reason why a lot of older people have turned their backs on football and have decided to do other sport related activities in their leisure time. thankfully I was brought up pre bosman and pre agent days. the great brian clough would not speak to the latter. lower down the leagues you,ll get ripped off more and more. non league sides loose good prospects for chicken feed by the same clubs pay millions to some unknown African or central European who have the same chance of making it. good luck to both lads in the future and as I,ve said before have not anyone left their job for another for all reasons especially money. will be at the crown tomorrow weather permitting and cheer on matt and joss as before as long as they don't hide. anyone who does not want to should stay at home. we deed to be together more and more now and be in one voice WE ARE GOING UP

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

It does have a great bearing, following the fact that in 62, me @ many others had to go elsewhere to watch football. we then became indoctrinated with Blackburn or Burnley, as teenagers, then got wed etc and our kids came yon with us. fact. ok me and a few more returned to stanley, but most didn't.plus our kids never even knew stanley, so they were never gonna defect.;) our kids then got wed and were did there kids go?

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

common sense is that all lower league sides with near neighbours who have always been more successful have a problem with attendances and stanleys case of 40 odd years without a league club helps even less. you tend to go with youre old man firstly and you are usually hooked before you enter your teens and go with youre mates. it needs another 20 years or so to get genarations hooked on Stanley like the reason stockport get 3000 to watch utter garbage.

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

Great comments by Andy Holt on Fishy ...

Back the boys: Andy Holt ? Accrington Stanley FC

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

Another gers fan (in disbelief)


All of the players mentioned that left us for free had been tupped over to the new company, contracts were bought and the rest of the team stayed and played or seeked transfers.

Anyway why is nothing bad until we do it?english clubs have been exploiting the low cross border compensation fee for years but when we do it its "classless"

My Honest opinion is that the fans and staff of AS are just bitter. Bitter because you are a small club flying high this year and losing 2 good players in the team for next to nothing is a kick in the nasties.

We can't be blamed for FIFAs rules and the way we went about it was modern etiquette. We don't need permission to speak to your players, Bosman made sure if that. We have players out of contract in the summer and a few English clubs are sniffing about :eek:

We're Bayern classless when they signed lewandowski on a Bosman? Ballack, pirlo, babbel and Hebron larrson all left on Bosnians so why are we being demonised?

THE BOSMAN RULING

This is an an EU ruling that allows out-of-contract footballers to leave their clubs without them receiving a transfer fee.

It is named after Belgian striker Jean-Marc Bosman, who took his club, RC Liege, to court over his desire to move to Dunkerque against his employers' wishes.

In 1995, the European Court of Justice banned restrictions on foreign EU players within national leagues and allowed players in the EU to move to another club at the end of a contract without a transfer fee being paid.

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

I can't see any good will come from holding them back until the summer window, neither player is going to risk injury in the remainder of this season, the best option must be to get a reasonable fee from Rangers and move on,
on the Blackburn / Burnley not an issue on our fan base
Stockport av. 3000 from population of 138000 = 1 in every 46
Stanley av 1400 from population of 37000 = 1 in every 27
as both clubs suffer from bigger clubs in the area its impossible to equate the full effects but the fact is they do inhibit the fan base to both clubs

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

This was indeed a good article. I wish you guys all the best and hope yous get promotion

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

Words fail me no rules were broken rangers declared an interest in November it was all over the papers you are mixing up gloating with happy to get players .so if you are running a business you would pay out money if you didn't need to. Rangers sent an email which rangers didn't need to. I would be happy to give Stanley a couple of hundred grand and play a friendly. Take a chill pill and support Stanley there's too much hate and not enough love :alright: up the Stanley and rangers

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

Thing is wi this, J.C. was quoted as saying " No-one was going anywhere in Jan" so therefore Rangers could only in my view talk about a season end deal? so therefore perhaps we woulda been better if that had been unsaid? it was also said a few clubs were interested in the 2 players? the fact that was said by J.C. may well have put others off? with hindsight we woulda been better off certainly by selling the players in this window?

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

I think people need to calm down a bit on here. Everyone is gutted at losing the pair, and I'm no exception (well, about Crooksey anyway).

We all knew the players were on their way out, one way or another. Yes, we'd all loved to have seen the club get a 6-figure sum (I think 7 was unrealistic personally), but its not happened.

As for Rangers, they've done a cracking bit of business here by making use of a rule to their advantage. People mention that Rangers wouldn't like it if the shoe was on the other foot, but retrospectively, we would love it if it was the other way around?? If we had managed to get two highly rated Scottish gems for next to nothing, we'd be praising the club for doing an excellent job. Rangers sent an email - they didn't have to. They've shown their intentions in the media for some time too - it wasn't a surprise! No team will offload needless money if they don't have too.

My disappointment is more with the players. If what's been said is true and they didn't let the club know they were heading to Glasgow, that's a lack of respect to Coley and the club. Also showing their delight via social media with no mention of our club but saying that they can't wait to join a big & ambitious club is a kick in the teeth to our fans. I have no doubts that they meant no disrespect by their comments, but it was a naive move by the lads. I thought they'd have a bit more sense than that.

But it's on Stanley on, keep the faith boys and girls! Don't get dragged down into nasty comments and unnecessary abuse. It doesn't give our fans a good name either. Push that frustration deep down and release it on match day when spurring on the mighty boys in red!

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

Mind you did J.C @ J.B. notify stanley when they went to talk to Rochdale? if not that was a lack of respect to Stanley also.

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

Reading between the lines re your quote by Coley...." No-one was going anywhere in Jan"....it sounds to me like Coley already knew some time ago what was going to happen regarding the two lads going to Rangers!
:cool:
I have absolutely no doubt that Coley is going to continue to do the best for the club and the fans by continuing to pick the STRONGEST TEAM for any/all of the remaining fixtures for the rest of this season. IMHO we must trust in Coley and Jimmy, (and the support for them by Andy Holt and the board), and let them get on with doing the great job that they have always done for Accy Stanley!:jimbo:
I can just remember, in my childhood, the wonder years under Walter Galbraith in the 1950's and he was always regarded as Stanley's greatest ever manager. John Coleman, along with Jimmy Bell because he is part of the success story too, now ranks alongside Walter in my assessment and I do believe that he will go on to surpass him!:alright:
I don't get involved with commenting on the rules and regulations of the business of football ....and yes I am probably very naive....:dummy2:
But I will express my total faith and support for STANLEY once again as I always do and I really hope that everyone on Saturday gets absolutely 100% behind the players and management on Saturday and spur the team, whoever is picked to play, onto a great victory and three more points in the REDVOLUTION which is ACCRINGTON STANLEY battling for promotion!:theband:

Simples....
BACK THE TEAM!:wave8:
100% SUPPORT!:wave8:
COME ON YOU REDS!:wave8:
ON STANLEY ON!:wave8:
:signbeer::drink:

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

Memory serves me that 9 of Tha all Scottish accy Stanley team from the 50s were rangers supporters as I've spoke to few of the surviving ones when I lived in accy . Always had a good yap on the way to work with the window cleaner anybody in the kno will know who I am talking about.

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

I lived with my parents on the Within Grove council estate where the Scottish players were all housed and went to school with and knocked about with some of their kids! I still have a drive onto the estate about once a year or so for old times sake!:rolleyes:

To keep 'On Thread' ......
Let's hope we are still discussing 'Scottish Links' with big clubs stealing players from Accy Stanley in the football League in another fifty years...

ps. If the match is still on I think that there might possibly be a bit of an increase in the attendance....??

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

Accrington Stanley

Can't help liking a football club with such a good name :)

I'm a Rangers fan too but perfectly understand how you guys feel. If the situation was reversed we'd be a bit annoyed as well. Happens to all clubs now with the Bosman ruling. No doubt a worse blow to a smaller club with less resources. Hopefully negotiations are taking place that result in some sort of agreement that suits you lot better. I read we could maybe take these two boys for under a hundred grand at the end of the season. I agree that is a joke for two guys thought to have the potential to play for our first team.

In the past we'd probably have given you 2 million. If anything we are usually over generous when it comes to buying players. The clubs been through hell in the last few years and every penny is no doubt a prisoner. Our support is a little sensitive at the moment due to our club being slaughtered up in Scotland all the time and that's why your owners comments have annoyed people. Our press love a negative story to slate Rangers about.

I agree with your owner though. A phone call is just courteous. Its not like us. Our new chairman is not rich by football owner standards and we have a long way to go, so he's obviously playing hardball with people. He also used the media to shame a club legend for wanting paid a valid contract after being dismissed by the club. The guy looked like he was being greedy but seeing Rangers doing its business like that is a bit of an embarrassment.

For a big club its more traditional than commercial. Our fans are already saying your boys need better haircuts and dress sense if their going to represent our club :) Its more a joke now but having generations of fans and a pride in our history makes even our young kids argue about standards set down by strict old managers who lived and breathed the club. Our club has a lots of old traditions. Some of these celebrate links with other clubs from the past like a cup Stoke gave us yonks ago is used to toast the first game of each new year. A lot of our momento's in our trophy room are from our first games against other teams. That's why its untypical of the club to attract negative comments from another club outwith some obvious Scottish ones. We come from very humble origins for a football club so its nothing to do with disrespecting a smaller club.

Dean Windass :) I remember him playing for Aberdeen. Was a decent enough player. The sort who got stuck right in and you appreciate but not anything out of the ordinary. Every club has had loads of players like him. Seems his kid has insisted on a get-away clause. Got to laugh at that because I can't even remember big name players asking for that. Not very endearing if you ask me but football seldom reflects the values of the punters now.

Hope our two chairman's have a word and sort something. Even if it's a deferred extra payment once our finances are better. I always thought the club tried to build links with others because who knows when other players might come along. I seen you got a shift out of one of our lads so it can work both ways.

We are all behind our chairman because he is one of us and that's a small mercy after everything we've been through. Been ripped off by so many people its unbelievable. But some of his actions so far as I said are not really typical of how the support like to see the club doing business. Hopefully it changes back to normal once our finances are in order.

Anyway, I've rambled on to long. My apologies. Will look out for your results now and hope to see you getting promoted. Might pop along once all this has settled as I live near Bolton and only get to Ibrox every six or so weeks now.

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

This is currently being broadcast on Sky sports news, with andy showing a print out of the email sent and saying that he thinks the lads were spoken too before the email was sent. in my view id start them on the bench because if we are going continue and build a team for the next few years than we need players who want to be here and play for Accrington, gutted for coley too loose two players without any money back, but coley's view on the fishy site is really good, and looking forward to tomorrow.

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

Our club did NOT get liquidated. You cannot liquidate a football club. It was the company that ran Rangers that went bust. The club survived, but demoted to the lowest tier.

As to our fans, absolutely not. I am a member of the three largest Gers online forums. And there is much serious discussion of this issue. There are Gers fans who think your chairman is using us as a scapegoat for his own possible mistakes, and some fans do have ostensibly little sympathy for your club, if Rangers have broken no rules, BUT don't confuse that with disrespect for Stanley. Our fans are not wholesale therefore arrogant and crowing. In fact there is criticism up here of the issue towards their own club.

Our fans, despite what Rangers-haters up here say, are not arrogant. Far from it, you have NO idea of the sheer hate we have had to suffer since 2012. I have many English and Welsh friends who have been openly shocked at the open hostility to Rangers in 2012, from punter to club owners, and the sheer glee in Scottish football at our problems. Any other country would see how having the biggest club in trouble would be horrible for the game, but no, up here, the sheer hate for our club, without whom and Celtic the game would be a backwater, overrode any common sense.

Could this issue have been dealt with better?. Possibly, probably. But from both sides. From our vantage point, your owner has been undignified in his running to the media and attempts to garner sympathy by playing little David to our goliath. To be fair, on Sky Sports, I might point out that he clearly didn't blame Rangers last night for it. But the loophole itself.

Re the clause, that seems to be media speculation. The football press in Glasgow is shocking for it.


In closing, despite being a big club, many of us think its is great to see Stanley back from the dead, a 'proper old club' back in business. We have lost great old clubs and almost lost ours. And ours was and still is one of the biggest, most famous and most iconic clubs in the world. Yet we came close to losing it. So we can understand what the pain of no club must have been like. I cant think of a football world without Rangers. Or a life, as fans its so much a part of who we are. So its great to see your club alive again.

I hope that Accrington fans will not have any ire towards Glasgow Rangers over this. A double friendly as suggested would be a great idea. We love a big day out, and you lot would enjoy Ibrox, lol.

On behalf of Rangers fans, I wish Accrington all the best for the rest of the season and beyond.

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

Some excellent stuff on this thread from all sides and not what I'd call vitriol. Just passion.
Bring back Third Lanark and we'll call it quits;)

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

Just a quick aside, as I don't want to thread wander too much. Having lived in both Accrington and Stockport, there is absolutely no comparison. Stockport is a large borough, four or five time the size of a little town like Accrington. The fact is, our attendances ARE down to a combination of our location and size and we have to find ways of working around this, hopefully by getting a decent return for the hidden gems we discover in the future!

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

Alright lads just seen this crap is growing arms and legs. I don't do twitter or any of that type of social media so just thought it was your chairman raising his disappointment and trying to get us to cough up a bit more. Our chairman tried it with all the clubs who took our players for nothing when we went bust but only Sheffield Wednesday (to their credit) I think gave us anything.

So its expected that a chairman will grumble a bit but just read someone by the name of Lloyd is calling Rangers allsorts. We didn't start slandering the clubs for any players we've lost on the cheap or for nothing. We knew it was just the rules. Same when guys run down contracts at our club and somebody takes the **** with bids. The guy Lloyd is obviously an arse.

Got to laugh as I was thinking of going to see a local club through here and liked what I seen about your club. I admire clubs with less resources who do well like Calley Thistle up here. That's why I like to see them treated fairly. Our clubs skint but I think your guy is well out of order. Silly thing is that he'll get absolutely bare minimum now. Football is **** this way but its all common place. I just like us to be better than that and we usually have been. I hope that guy's not making big decisions at your club.

Anyway all the best for the future as this is all a big deal over nothing. That's what's surprising about the things your director said.

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

As I said, peace out.

My thanks to the great Accrington Stanley fans and the Gers fans for some support.

We're all football fans.

carpon...you're an ignorant clown.

As it is your forum I'll say no more but try posting that tripe on a Rangers website.

To decent Stanley fans....thanx :)

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

Love you Lucy Blue,:wub: (if you're a lass!):rolleyes:;)

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

Can't blame Rangers, they've done nothing wrong and haven't acted inappropriately.

Can't blame the players, they've secured themselves the best possible move and haven't acted inappropriately.

Can't blame us for being annoyed.

It is, unfortunately, the way of the game now. The entire structure is there to destroy the smaller clubs.

I think the Bosman ruling has it's good points and it's bad points, but I think there should be an automatic insertion of a future sell-on fee percentage which would be at least a comfort to the club that loses out.

With regards to Windass and his rumoured £3.5m buy out clause, I have no doubt that he, and his name, agent, and dad, will ensure that his next move is for that sort of money. If we were automatically granted a 20% stake of that then future bigger moves benefit all parties. We are many moons away from being able to sell players for £3.5m so losing players just becomes the next stage of his training and development from our view as well.

Perhaps that would be a satisafctory outcome now? Take the pair of them immediately, give us the token slap in the face immediately and a 20% sell on fee. Ta-ta.

I also think Andy Holt was naive in his comments and has showed himself, and the club, up. The Bosman ruling is 20 years old and we are not the first or last club to suffer in this way. Unfortunately for us it has happened and cost us a shed load of cash. When we lost other players in the past it cost us tens of thousands perhaps, but this time it's hundreds of thousands. It is sickening but complaining publicly just makes us look bitter and cry babies. However, it could all be quite deliberate and has secured the club a lot more national exposure, and a decent amount of plastic box advertising.

We move on.

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

Whilst i agree its the way of the game now, dont make it right, nor do we have to like it.

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

I agree with all of this but unfortunately a Bosman transfer wouldn't allow any clauses to be imposed in the new contract on a mandatory basis since it would be a breach of employment law to impose such a condition. That's pretty much one of the arguments in Bosman. It might be academic anyway if the ones wanting transfer fees scrapped get their way.

The only way such a thing could work is if a transfer deal was done in this transfer window and they moved to Rangers. Then it would be a normal transfer and not a Bosman.

The 3.5 million pound cluse could also end up with Rangers getting shafted because they could in theory develop him into a £10millon player yet would only get £3.5 million as who would bid more. And much in the same way he is leaving Accy there would be nothing Rangers could do to stop the move.

I agree with what you say about Andy Holt and would have made that point myself had it not been Rangers involved.

Ant yes Cashy I agree. Just because it's legal and the way of the game it doesn't make it just and we don't have to like it. But alas we have to accept it because it takes far more powerful clubs than us to change it.

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

[QUOTE=deeayess;1158365]
The only way such a thing could work is if a transfer deal was done in this transfer window and they moved to Rangers. Then it would be a normal transfer and not a Bosman.QUOTE]

That is the reason for suggesting earlier that Rangers should be told neither player will be getting any game time between now and the end of the season. Not to cut off anyone's nose, or be vindictive to either player, but to try and extract some value for the club while they are still under a contract signed with Stanley.
Doubt if it would work, though, as I can't imagine either player getting into the Rangers' first team for quite some time, so that club won't care how long it takes to get both players match fit.
Pity the game was off yesterday as I was looking forward to seeing (a) if either player got a start and, if they did, (b) how they performed.

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

[QUOTE=Exile on Spencer St;1158369]I agree I doubt that they will get straight into the first team as established players and would not make a sufficient impact to merit signing them for any significant amount now.

I would presume their contract with Accy ends on 30/06/16 so match fitness wouldn't come into it as they would start preseason training with everyone else. Them not playing would probably be preferable as it removes the risk of injury.

The best thing to do would be to come to an agreement to transfer them for a reasonable amount as threats just won't work.

I could have done with the game being on just to have seen a game because it's been that long it feels like a winter break :)

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

Ignorant....far from it......I don't like seeing my club, small as it may be....being shafted by a bigger club exploiting a loophole in a stupid rule. Is that so difficult to comprehend????:confused::confused:

Whilst I accept there is nothing a club of Stanley's stature can do to change things.....i.e. the rules as they stand.....my point was that Rangers probably only notified A.S.F.C. after the fact.....as in after they'd started negotiations with the players....with what could be considered as a condescending e-mail to the secretary....Not the Chairman....Not the Manager (or assistant ) but the secretary.....after your club had no doubt kicked the wheels into motion.:mad:

Rangers hadn't got the decency to ask for the "token gesture" of permission to talk to the pair. Seeing as A.S.F.C. hadn't got a leg to stand on.:mad:

Why did your club act in this way ??? To make sure Rangers signed the pair before any other club could act...

Warburton has already explained it away.....You acted fast to snap the pair up on the cheap....exploiting the loophole....... before anyone else ( i.e an English club) had the chance to act.

I am certainly no clown......:rolleyes:

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

Who is this ex Burnley director Frank McParland, LancsDave, who was instrumental in getting Rangers to steal away our two? Who next, Shay McCarten? The
Spirit of Bob Lord still lives on.

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

Dont worry Redraine, ten points should guarantee us our football league status for next year !!! :)

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

I don't think he was at Burnley very long

RANGERS Football Club is today delighted to announce the appointment of Frank McParland as Head of Recruitment.

The 56 year-old has been working as Sporting Director at Burnley, and has gained a wealth of experience at various clubs over an impressive career.
A boyhood Liverpool fan, McParland enjoyed two spells on the red half of Merseyside. He worked firstly as Chief Scout between 2003 and 2007, and is credited with unearthing Raheem Sterling and Jordan Ibe in his second spell when working as Director of Academy and Player Development from 2009 to 2013.


He has previously worked alongside Mark Warburton as Director of Football at Brentford before leaving London at the same time as the current Rangers manager during the summer of 2015.


In addition, he also worked as Director of Football at Watford Football Club between 2008 and 2009.


McParland is the latest appointment to be made at Rangers as the club strives to modernise, move forward and return to the highest echelons of the game.


New benchmarks and standards must be set both on and off the field of play, and everyone at Rangers wishes Frank the very best in his new role.

Re: Windass and Crooks.............
 

only 5 days left for Rangers to get Crooks & Windass in an early transfer, Rangers prime target for a defensive midfielder has signed for Leeds which may make the case for renewed interest in this window for the pair