Council again.. - Page 5

andrewb · 22-05-2009, 05:52

I don't think you're being very fair Garinda. Your posts read with quite a condescending manner. You know very well that even people with far more experience than yourself argue for and against the minimum wage. I do not agree with Nickleson on the minimum wage itself, but I do understand exactly what he means by price floor, despite having never done an economics GCSE/A-level. It appears pretty logical to me.

Nickleson you mentioned tax credits, which is an important point for low paid workers. What I'd like to see is low paid workers completely lifted out of the taxation system. We recently saw income tax of everybody on the minimum wage double from 10% to 20% which just seems quite ridiculous to me as it hurts the lowest paid in society the most.

Neil · 22-05-2009, 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by shillelagh

if one can do it .. then the other can ......

This is starting to get like a play ground argument

garinda · 22-05-2009, 07:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb

I don't think you're being very fair Garinda. Your posts read with quite a condescending manner. You know very well that even people with far more experience than yourself argue for and against the minimum wage. I do not agree with Nickleson on the minimum wage itself, but I do understand exactly what he means by price floor, despite having never done an economics GCSE/A-level. It appears pretty logical to me.

Nickleson you mentioned tax credits, which is an important point for low paid workers. What I'd like to see is low paid workers completely lifted out of the taxation system. We recently saw income tax of everybody on the minimum wage double from 10% to 20% which just seems quite ridiculous to me as it hurts the lowest paid in society the most.

Well if you can understand the poorly punctuated, rambling gobbledigook, perhaps it's just me, so I apologise.

Perhaps you've just got use to making sense of such unfathomable nonsense.

garinda · 22-05-2009, 07:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nickelson

A minimum wage is a floor for the employers in which they can pay there employees. In large buisnesses this tends not be a problem, however the smaller buisnesses might stuggle. The minimum wage increases the amount of money within the government coffers. So the money is often placed within welfare benefits. Yes there are Hundreds of thousands whom Working Tax Credits need not apply to. However to those that are applicable then the fact that there hours are made up means they need not work the 30 hours and can work 20 where they will get the rest made up. This creates not incentive for the worker to drag themselfs out thus creating a trap.

Prehaps i do need revision, however i didnt study this subject 13 months ago.

No, in the light of day, this still makes very little sense.

garinda · 22-05-2009, 07:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb

I don't think you're being very fair Garinda.

When you too enter the real world, outside the confines of academic Hull, you may also realise that life sometimes isn't 'fair'.

I think it's perfectly fair to challenge unsubstantiated, glib comments, and ask for evidence.

Hopefully evidence that might be clear, and understandable to all.

ClarePritchard · 22-05-2009, 08:13

I'm not saying at all that "if they can do it, so can we". We didn't do it at all. I worked with officers for months on this proposal, it was fully costed, itemised and a report produced but it was an AMMENDMENT not a motion. People put ammendments to proposals at full council all the time and I don't object to that but to come with a proposal 5 minutes before is verging on deceitful. I know that a presentation was scheduled to come to full council regarding the Civic Theatre weeks in advance but still the report still only came at the last minute. Its not financially responsible to be expected to vote on spending 400k in 10 minutes with no firm indication where the money is coming from, in fact its financially reckless and I'm not prepared to act fast and loose with Hyndburn tax payers money just so Peter can gets his kicks from seeing his face in the paper.

jaysay · 22-05-2009, 09:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil

This is starting to get like a play ground argument

Starting

andrewb · 22-05-2009, 09:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

When you too enter the real world, outside the confines of academic Hull, you may also realise that life sometimes isn't 'fair'.

I think it's perfectly fair to challenge unsubstantiated, glib comments, and ask for evidence.

Hopefully evidence that might be clear, and understandable to all.

No life isn't fair, I'm aware of that without patronisation thank-you. I just happen to think that in a community you could criticise somebody without needing to condescend them. Especially when you're using lack of experience, when much more experienced men than yourself think the minimum wage is bad - are you suggesting that they're correct? No of course not, it would not be a convincing argument to suggest somebody is correct solely on the basis of their current educational status or how long they've been in the 'real world'. It's about the argument put forward.

turkishdelight · 22-05-2009, 09:43

What is this living in the real world that keeps cropping up in relation to students, interesting, thought i might ask due to coming across the term several times.

garinda · 22-05-2009, 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb

No life isn't fair, I'm aware of that without patronisation thank-you. I just happen to think that in a community you could criticise somebody without needing to condescend them. Especially when you're using lack of experience, when much more experienced men than yourself think the minimum wage is bad - are you suggesting that they're correct? No of course not, it would not be a convincing argument to suggest somebody is correct solely on the basis of their current educational status or how long they've been in the 'real world'. It's about the argument put forward.

It could be seen as condescension on your part, when you refer to my 'experience', when in reality you haven't a clue as to what that might be.

Good luck with doorstepping.

I'm sure people will be thrilled with the charmless presumptions you seem to make.

garinda · 22-05-2009, 09:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by turkishdelight

What is this living in the real world that keeps cropping up in relation to students, interesting, thought i might ask due to coming across the term several times.

Earning enough money to provide for yourself and those close to you, and all that that entails, such as paying the various associated taxes, at a wild guess.

andrewb · 22-05-2009, 10:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

It could be seen as condescension on your part, when you refer to my 'experience', when in reality you haven't a clue as to what that might be.

I don't need to know what experience you have or haven't got, because I'm not attacking you for it. If you are the most experienced man on the planet, then I take my hat off, my statement must be incorrect.

Neil · 22-05-2009, 10:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb

If you are the most experienced man on the planet, then I take my hat off, my statement must be incorrect.

In some areas he just might be

garinda · 22-05-2009, 10:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewb

I don't need to know what experience you have or haven't got

Then why refer to it, since you don't have any knowledge of it?

Very sloppy.

andrewb · 22-05-2009, 10:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda

Then why refer to it, since you don't have any knowledge of it?

Very sloppy.

Not at all, given the context. I know you have great experience in rarely dealing with context and actually commenting on the general argument - favouring changing topic when you're caught out.

Keep digging!