Hospital appointments

[Mancie]

Of course the NHS has never been a "free" service... that is why the tories bent over backwards to oppose it's creation... the idea of the whole working population having to directly contribute towards a NHS was aborrent to the tories who could afford to pay direct for healh care....but the vast majority of working people struggled.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by cmonstanley

....the penpushers were probably for all legalities of the claim culture where thers blaim theres a claim.

...and when did we see a massive rise in that sort of claim culture thinking?

Since 1997, that's when. When the New Labour government allowed a generation of people to believe that living off benefits was the prefered career option of choice. Thus allowing them to watch all the 'no win, no fee' adverts, that punctuate the Jeremy Kyle show, whilst sat on their arses.

You wouldn't know anything about real socialism, if you sat on a flag pole flying the Red Flag, and needed a visit to outpatients....for 'free' treatment.

[cmonstanley]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

As to your first point C'mon, here in Germany, those less fortunate & on benefits are treated through the system & are NOT required to pay towards their treatment, whereas someone like myself gainfully employed pay a % of my monthly wage into the aforementioned system to assist in this treatment of the less well off. Further to that should I require treatment I will also be asked to pay a certain amount (irrespective of already having put into the pot). Plus every quarter (If I visit a Doctor or Dentist I have to pay an extra €10,00 so should I require both €20,00).

Secondly as to superior ? That I would question, if the NHS were so, why then do some operations & treatments get outsourced to other European Countries ? Cost ? Expertise ? Or the NHS aren't capable of dealing ? Not to knock it, the NHS is a worthy asset to the UK, but over the years it has become unsuitable for purpose & top heavy with self important nobodies, it requires a major overhaul/shakedown to lose the deadwood which has been foisted upon the service. That done the NHS can once again be a shining example of "free" public health care.

so you pay your tax and then you have to pay again just proved a point about the nhs

[cashman]

Originally Posted by cmonstanley

so you want what it is like in other countries,they pay taxes and still have to paY MEDICAL INSURANCE TO GET TREATED OR have TO PAY TO GeT TREATment that leaves the poorest in society having to be reliant on charity or just die thats why the taxpayer funds it in this country it is also far superior to most hospitals in most countries. i would only complain if there was neglegence and not act like a spoilt brat because i have to wait a bit longer if it wasnt life threatening.

thats complete balls, some ya have some yah aint to pay medical insurance, having lived in one that don't i can say that, i just paid equivalent to national insurance wi me occupation, at that time, i have had marvellous treatment from our own NHS, also one real crap one, also me late wife had a very bad un here, the concept of N.I. was to cover such things, like you i honestly thought ours was superior to others, well abroad i soon learnt that is not the case, but if ya think so dream on. it is not acting like a spoilt brat to complain about any shortcomings in fact its stupid not to do so.

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by garinda

...and when did we see a massive rise in that sort of claim culture thinking?

Since 1997, that's when. When the New Labour government allowed a generation of people to believe that living off benefits was the prefered career option of choice. Thus allowing them to watch all the 'no win, no fee' adverts, that punctuate the Jeremy Kyle show, whilst sat on their arses.

You wouldn't know anything about real socialism, if you sat on a flag pole flying the Red Flag, and needed a visit to outpatients....for 'free' treatment.

And in the 80's under tory rule there was no choice!... 6 million either on the dole or on the sick.. not caused by any worldwide recession but caused by an incompentent idealistic right wing government... the "free market".. grab what you can.. and that included the solicitors of the claim game.

[DaveinGermany]

Actually the point I was making was that the less well off don't suffer here or as you put it :-

that leaves the poorest in society having to be reliant on charity or just die

I believe that to be the case in UK too ? Those employed pay taxes which are in turn used to support the NHS (taxpayer funded) so theoretically the NHS isn't "free" it is subsidised by the working man & Woman. Yes I pay several times over while I work, but should I be unfortunate enough to lose my employment I can rest assured I will receive the same standard of treatment (without having to put my hand in my pocket) as I would've when employed.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by cashman

thats complete balls, some ya have some yah aint to pay medical insurance, having lived in one that don't i can say that, i just paid equivalent to national insurance wi me occupation, at that time, i have had marvellous treatment from our own NHS, also one real crap one, also me late wife had a very bad un here, the concept of N.I. was to cover such things, like you i honestly thought ours was superior to others, well abroad i soon learnt that is not the case, but if ya think so dream on. it is not acting like a spoilt brat to complain about any shortcomings in fact its stupid not to do so.

Well said, and welcome back.

Though you'll probably now be branded a fascist, despite your own history, beliefs, and your background spent working for the unions, for umpteen years.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Mancie

And in the 80's under tory rule there was no choice!... 6 million either on the dole or on the sick.. not caused by any worldwide recession but caused by an incompentent idealistic right wing government... the "free market".. grab what you can.. and that included the solicitors of the claim game.

'Grab what you can'.

Classic quote from a true class warrior.

I'll be round tomorrow to break in, and steal the food from your family's table.

Up the revolution.

Beam me up Keir Hardie, everything is well in La-la-land.

[Taggy]

Originally Posted by cmonstanley

so you want what it is like in other countries,they pay taxes and still have to paY MEDICAL INSURANCE TO GET TREATED OR have TO PAY TO GeT TREATment that leaves the poorest in society having to be reliant on charity or just die thats why the taxpayer funds it in this country it is also far superior to most hospitals in most countries. i would only complain if there was neglegence and not act like a spoilt brat because i have to wait a bit longer if it wasnt life threatening.

In most cases they pay taxes MUCH LOWER than ours so the medical insurance they pay only really brings everything into line cost wise as our FREE nhs!...The actual care level in the NHS these days is far less than it ever was..basically because we now Train nurses at College rather than on wards..so that when they actually have to deal with REAL patients they havn't a ruddy clue how to approach them in a compassionate and caring manner!
Leaving aside my "Spoiled Brat" attitude, as an out patient!..I recently had to endure diabolical treatment of my Father in 3 local hospitals as an In Patient who suffered from Parkinsons Disease....not only was the basic care he received disgusting...the level of understanding of his condition, and admisistration of medication was pathetic!..This was someone who served in the forces, paid into the system all his life.and quite frankly was treated like dog muck by the NHS!! And yes i'm actually complaining about basic nursing standards here..not just administration!
The NHS as we once knew it..does not exist anymore!

So you get down from your ruddy high horse and return to the real world!!

Best Regards - Taggy

[cmonstanley]

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany

Actually the point I was making was that the less well off don't suffer here or as you put it :-

that leaves the poorest in society having to be reliant on charity or just die

I believe that to be the case in UK too ? Those employed pay taxes which are in turn used to support the NHS (taxpayer funded) so theoretically the NHS isn't "free" it is subsidised by the working man & Woman. Yes I pay several times over while I work, but should I be unfortunate enough to lose my employment I can rest assured I will receive the same standard of treatment (without having to put my hand in my pocket) as I would've when employed.

as i said most countries not all ie usa

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by garinda

'Grab what you can'.

Classic quote from a true class warrior.

I'll be round tomorrow to break in, and steal the food from your family's table.

Up the revolution.

Beam me up Keir Hardie, everything is well in La-la-land.

I'm saying the grab what you can culture was created and even encouraged under the tories and I'd bet most claims for any compensation were made by those able to afford to make a cliam.. maybe history is repeating with Cameron's so called "big society" because the trouble is the rich tories are a lot bigger than most people.

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Taggy

In most cases they pay taxes MUCH LOWER than ours so the medical insurance they pay only really brings everything into line cost wise as our FREE nhs!...The actual care level in the NHS these days is far less than it ever was..basically because we now Train nurses at College rather than on wards..so that when they actually have to deal with REAL patients they havn't a ruddy clue how to approach them in a compassionate and caring manner!
Leaving aside my "Spoiled Brat" attitude, as an out patient!..I recently had to endure diabolical treatment of my Father in 3 local hospitals as an In Patient who suffered from Parkinsons Disease....not only was the basic care he received disgusting...the level of understanding of his condition, and admisistration of medication was pathetic!..This was someone who served in the forces, paid into the system all his life.and quite frankly was treated like dog muck by the NHS!! And yes i'm actually complaining about basic nursing standards here..not just administration!
The NHS as we once knew it..does not exist anymore!

So you get down from your ruddy high horse and return to the real world!!

Best Regards - Taggy

There are some wonderful, dedicated nurses, who work to the best of their ability, under sometimes very difficult working conditions.

On the other hand, as you say, some have opted for nursing as a career, through academia, and have as much passion, understanding, and empathy as Eva Braun.

I've experienced some, who work in mental health, who were really so disturbed it left you wondering who was the patient, and who was on the staff.

Another, a male nurse on a surgical ward at Blackburn, shouldn't really be allowed near any living animal, certainly not a sick human.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by garinda

I won't now mention the terrible amount of waste witnessed at Burnley General. If it was a commercial concern it would have ceased trading years ago.

Go on mention it because I see it every time I visit hospitals. Not saying the treatment is bad but oh so much wasted manpower

[garinda]

Originally Posted by Neil

Go on mention it because I see it every time I visit hospitals. Not saying the treatment is bad but oh so much wasted manpower

I've got to keep something held back, for a rainy day.

Blame the cuts.

[Taggy]

Originally Posted by garinda

There are some wonderful, dedicated nurses, who work to the best of their ability, under sometimes very difficult working conditions.

On the other hand, as you say, some have opted for nursing as a career, through academia, and have as much passion, understanding, and empathy as Eva Braun.

I've experienced some, who work in mental health, who were really so disturbed it left you wondering who was the patient, and who was on the staff.

Another, a male nurse on a surgical ward at Blackburn, shouldn't really be allowed near any living animal, certainly not a sick human.

Your'e correct in saying that we do still have some wonderful staff employed within the NHS, however their "shining lights" are being ever more dimmed by the needs of management & efficiency over Care. Patients by & large now are treated as numbers not as people, and that isn't progress is it!
I've never experienced less CARE now than at any stage than i can remember within the NHS almost every other person i speak to who has experienced hospital residence recently, has had some detrimental experience, which is mainly based around the level of care & understanding they have received! If loved ones went into hospital, we always used to say" well your in the best place now"..i'm afraid these days i wouldn't probably express that opinion.
I can honestly say now, that it really would worry me, having to be admitted to one of our local hospitals!..I know that it could happen one day soon..and i'll be honest..the thought frightens me...based purely on what i've seen!

Best Regards - Taggy