Accrington Market

JohnW · 20-10-2004, 11:17

Can someone explain to me, please, exactly how the market system works. For example, the stallholders I gather pay a rent to work their stall. What happens when they decide they want to give up their stall? Do they just sling their hook (only if they're butchers of course) and that's it. Then the market looks for a new tennant for the stall? Do they not have some form of 'goodwill' in the business? Do they just have to walk away after building a business, in some instances for many years, and receive nothing for it? Answers to these questions would be appreciated as it would give me a better chance to understand the situation with regard to the proposed selloff.

Mick · 20-10-2004, 11:40

if you are a perminant stall holder you need a tradeing permit also you have a contract with the market so you cant just walk away.
i know someone who took 1 of the new small shops near the bus station they had a 12 month contract with them but they put the rent up so much they could not afford to keep open and had to close the market are sueing for the rent which amounts to over £2000
if you are just doing the thuresday or sunday market (flea market)then you just pay the rent for that day.
the permanant stall holders used to pay £25 per stall for the first 2 stalls then £20 and then £15 for extra stalls we had 5 so it can mount up.
i dont know what the rent is on the new stalls though sorry

JohnW · 20-10-2004, 12:53

I am just talking about stalls inside of the market building.

Mick · 21-10-2004, 09:12

sorry i was on the outside try asking baconman he has a stall on the inside
sorry i cant help

Wizardess · 03-11-2004, 17:29

Hi, there is no good will in the market business,well not in Accy.
You can try to sell as a going concern, however if a trader on the inside market decided to up and go you have to give /pay for 2 months notice. Then thats that.
The Markets at present can just re advertise for tenders for the stall.
With regard to the outside they are on weekly terms. The shops on the new development are on a lease (poss 3 years) so there is a clause built in to their contract that you have to pay an early termination fee, I believe. Hope that is of help.

JohnW · 04-11-2004, 12:04

Thank you Wizardess, it does indeed help.

JohnW · 04-11-2004, 12:15

OK, so why don't the inside stallholders get together and try to raise the capital to buy the market hall. This way, when they come to retire from their business, they will have something to sell and it will put their destiny in their own hands. They will own their stall within the market hall. It would also be in their best interests to keep the place in good condition and would solve that problem. Contribution of capital could be arranged according to square footage of the stalls. As this would be quite a sizeable asset, I'm quite sure they could arrange finance for the purchase. I realise that we are probably talking a lot of money here but it must be worth exploration. Someone also mentioned on an earlier thread that there used to be stalls upstairs as well. They could possibly explore re-introducing those which could then be 'sold off' and reduce the debt incurred to buy the market hall. Just a thought.

WillowTheWhisp · 04-11-2004, 12:52

Sounds good but I'm not sure now that what the council actually proposed was a total sell-off of the market. It sounds more like they just want some rich outsider to pour money in with no long term ownership arrangements.

Tealeaf · 04-11-2004, 13:11

I wonder what the exact reply was from English Heritage to HBC when the council applied for Lottery Funding for the preservation and restoration of this Grade II listed building. It would be interesting to know why no funds were forthcoming. Of course, I am assuming that HBC did make a submission....not even HBC, in all it's glorious incompetance, could miss out on that application....or could they?

Stanleyguy · 04-11-2004, 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tealeaf

I wonder what the exact reply was from English Heritage to HBC when the council applied for Lottery Funding for the preservation and restoration of this Grade II listed building. It would be interesting to know why no funds were forthcoming. Of course, I am assuming that HBC did make a submission....not even HBC, in all it's glorious incompetance, could miss out on that application....or could they?

I think they applied, but were told that as the market hall is such a money spinner for the Council (it clears about £300k a year), the Council could afford to do the renovations themselves.

WillowTheWhisp · 04-11-2004, 15:20

This is the moneyspinner which they are willing to offload????????????????

Tealeaf · 04-11-2004, 15:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stanleyguy

I think they applied, but were told that as the market hall is such a money spinner for the Council (it clears about £300k a year), the Council could afford to do the renovations themselves.

According to HBC Accounts, the markets (inc. Great Harwood) have racked up an operating loss of £580,000 in total over the last 2 years.

WillowTheWhisp · 04-11-2004, 17:08

There seems to be a slight discrepancy there somewhere wouldn't you agree?

Stanleyguy · 05-11-2004, 06:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tealeaf

According to HBC Accounts, the markets (inc. Great Harwood) have racked up an operating loss of £580,000 in total over the last 2 years.

I think that arose from the Council's share of funding the outside market redevelopment, because the loss was £502,000 in 2002/03 and £78,000 in 2003/04. They now have the ongoing cost of repaying the loan to pay for redevelopment, which has wiped out the profit.

When they applied to English Heritage a few years ago, the Accounts were showing the market to be profitable.

Tealeaf · 05-11-2004, 16:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stanleyguy

I think that arose from the Council's share of funding the outside market redevelopment, because the loss was £502,000 in 2002/03 and £78,000 in 2003/04. They now have the ongoing cost of repaying the loan to pay for redevelopment, which has wiped out the profit.

When they applied to English Heritage a few years ago, the Accounts were showing the market to be profitable.

Well, if the council is mixing up their capital expenditure with their operating expenditure then the books will be in the mess that they're in.
The fact is that the Market Hall has been run down for years - not just under this gang we have in control now. There is no doubt that the buiding now needs an awful lot of money spent upon it and I would have assumed that the best option would be a full restoration, allowing for modern Health & Safety requirements, to it's original mid-Victorian design. That means getting rid of the cheap formica and plywood that litter the place and bringing back the balcony surround.
There are many schemes that English Heritage have centrally funded which nevertheless have a seperate local current income/expenditure stream, so I don't see why this should have been the problem. The most likely reason that HBC did not get English Heritage Lottery Funding is that they cocked up their application, just as they appear to cock up everything else they lay their hands on.