Pure altruism does it exist?

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keetah992000

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Pure altruism is giving without regard to reward or the benefits of recognition.

I was wandering through an old thread and was surprized the debate didnt come up, as it is always an interesting one.

So does it exist ? If so give an example of a situation in in which pure altruism is displayed.
 
The day after I was diagnosed with Parkinson's Disease, four years ago when I was thirty nine, someone I hardly knew gave me a cheque for a thousand pounds. They said I could do what I liked with it, and I couldn't refuse it, as they would be offended.

I did of course refuse the money, but when they insisted, I used the money on acupuncture treatment, which greatly helped the pain in my muscles.

Incidentally, the acupuncurist would only take half the normal fee, which with weekly treatments, over two years, was quite a considerable discount.

I'll never forget this kindness, and when people say that the world today is a worse place than in days gone by, they are wrong. There are still a lot of very good people, who perform acts of kindness without seeking reward.
 
Like Rindi you find out who your friends are when your health fails. On the home front my companion for the last nineteen years has always been there from me, epecially when I've been in a poor way. As for outside the family, they always say that people have very few friends and plenty of acquaintances, which is all so true. for the past 10 or so years I have been unable to go out much in winter, mainly because I don't have the flue Jab as I'm allergic to it, but I have had two mates who pop round to see me most weeks and I only have to pick the phone up if I need to and they'll be there. those mates are Tom Hindle and Brian Walmsley, it sure makes you feel the everything in the word s not all bad
 
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Neil said:
Was this payment for previous services rendered :eek:
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Ha ha.:p

I promised this person not to tell anyone what they did for me, and I haven't. Well not really, as I've given no clues as to their identity.
 
I think pure altruism is more alive than 'unpure' to be honest Keetah.

Lots of people have done lovely things for me, and not mainly money wise, and definitely for no reward or recognition. Perhaps their only reward was seeing me well and happy, which is what I like to think.

Myself, I hope, have done helpful things for people for which I require no return... Ok, has made me feel a little better about myself if that is the reward, but not shouted it from the housetops.

Yes, I think it is still in the majority.

Don't wish to mention any particular instances, as these people would be embarrased by public praise, as obviously Garinda's little helper.
 
She'd kill me for posting this, but...

when I was about eight, an old lady who ran a sweet shop in Ossy, had her windows put through. The lady wasn't personally known to us, but my mum took her in a big bunch of flowers, and I remember thinking, wow, what a nice person my mum is.

I've met other people who my mum has done things for. A girl who she gave some pans to when she had nothing, and that she never forgot.

What I'm trying to say is my mum is nothing special, though she obviously is to her nearest and dearest, but very often it is the smallest act of kindness, especially if you're down and feeling vunerable, that means so much.
 
I'm sure I've read something about a bloke born in Bethlehem just over 2000 years ago. Does he qualify as an altruist?
 
yerself said:
I'm sure I've read something about a bloke born in Bethlehem just over 2000 years ago. Does he qualify as an altruist?
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Sort of, but he of course taught people that good deeds would be rewarded in Heaven, so that puts him out of the picture as a true altruist.:D
 
garinda said:
he of course taught people that good deeds would be rewarded in Heaven
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That makes him a con man, anyone got the BBC's Watchdog email address? He needs stopping before other gullible people fall for his scam.
 
Neil said:
That makes him a con man, anyone got the BBC's Watchdog email address? He needs stopping before other gullible people fall for his scam.
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Anne Robinson, she of Watchdog fame, was also a famous winker.;)
 
some of the posts about good deeds are lovely - real kindness but i wouldnt say it is truley pure altruism

if somebody is hurt or sad it is a human instinct to do something because if we dont we think many things such as bad luck befaling us - or karma coming back tenfold or just guilt. There is also the fear i think that if we dont do anything and the situation gets worse we will always be asking ourselves - why didnt i do more ?

i think it is this drive a lot of the time that makes us act upon our impulse to help but it doesnt make it true altruism even if we arent particularly getting rewarded for a good deed doing the deed stops us having from feeling bad.

would the person who gave you a cheque have placed it on the floor and walked away without even konwing if you had picked it up ? or did they have to know that it was you who had personally taken possession of it ?
 
I sorta' understand what you are saying Keetah, like I said the satisfaction I get from giving (apart from natural instincts to family) is the reward to my own self-esteem.

Suppose I would have to stand in front of complete strangers to take a load of machine gun fire to be a pure altruist (if any such word). Or donate any monies anonymously. Is this what you mean ?
 
keetah992000 said:
some of the posts about good deeds are lovely - real kindness but i wouldnt say it is truley pure altruism

if somebody is hurt or sad it is a human instinct to do something because if we dont we think many things such as bad luck befaling us - or karma coming back tenfold or just guilt. There is also the fear i think that if we dont do anything and the situation gets worse we will always be asking ourselves - why didnt i do more ?

i think it is this drive a lot of the time that makes us act upon our impulse to help but it doesnt make it true altruism even if we arent particularly getting rewarded for a good deed doing the deed stops us having from feeling bad.

would the person who gave you a cheque have placed it on the floor and walked away without even konwing if you had picked it up ? or did they have to know that it was you who had personally taken possession of it ?
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altruism Belief that an agent's moral decisions should be guided by consideration for the interests and well-being of other people rather than merely by self-interest, as egoism would recommend. Evidence that human beings do sometimes act in order to benefit others for their own sake seems to count against the common psychological claim that all human action is self-serving.

It's really getting into the semantics of the term, as to what is altruism. I'm not a philospher, but I suppose all of us are ultimately self serving, because we need to care for ourselves first in order to survive, and before we can even think of helping others.

Are there people who act without the need for praise or recognition, either physically or spiritually, yes, in my opinion.
 
garinda said:
Are there people who act without the need for praise or recognition, either physically or spiritually, yes, in my opinion.
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Would Dorothy MacGregor from Maundy Grange be an example of such a person?
 
keetah992000 said:
would the person who gave you a cheque have placed it on the floor and walked away without even konwing if you had picked it up ? or did they have to know that it was you who had personally taken possession of it ?
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The person wanted me to have the cheque, and make use of it whatever way I saw best.

Leaving the cheque on the floor, for perhaps someone else to find, wasn't an option. This person, who like I said earlier, isn't someone I know very well, is certainly no fool with their money.

It was an act of kindness, that demanded no recognition or thanks. I hope I spent the money wisely, and that it was used in the spirit it was given.
 
Lilly she is serving god so i would say not.

i hope nobody thinks i am being opinionated - i am just interested what others think.

We all look at the world through different eyes after all.

Garinda i know it is breaking the meaning right down - but that is why i put pure altruism, and i am no philosopher lol ( maybe after a few pints ) :D and i hope you are doing well, you have some very kind people around you and i am guessing you are a person who does many nice things for others it was obviously your time to get some back xx
 
Since I mentioned it, I'd better give a little background as to why that one act meant so much.

First of all, it wasn't about the money, or the amount. It was the act itself.

I knew for a while something was wrong with me. I'd known for years in fact, but like so many people do, I chose to ignore it, and had put off going to the doctors.

The day the person gave me the cheque was the afternoon I'd just come back from seeing a neurologist, who confirmed I had Parkinson's Disease.

I was thirty nine and felt that my life was over. I knew very little about the condition, other than the tremor, and from what I'd read in a booklet the doctor had given me, on the way back in the car.

It very much painted a worse case scenario. Eventual loss of speech, confined to a wheelchair, etc., etc., that sort of thing.

My only God given talent had been art, and I had used that to go to art school, get a degree, and then forge a very enjoyable, and successful career in fashion, in London. All that it seemed would be taken away from me, as well as my independence. No more living the high life, jetting off round the world, and being single the thought did cross my mind that who the hell would ever want to love me now?

So, sat in my mum's kitchen, probably at the lowest I've ever been in my life, in comes this person, who I don't know very well, to ask what the doctor had said. This person then went away, only to return a short while later.

That is when the cheque was given, with the proviso that I could do whatever I wanted with it, as long as it made me happy.

The cheque could have been a bunch of flowers, picked from the roadside. It was the act itself. Giving me something, anything. An act of love, from one person to another, when I most needed it, which touched me the most, and which I'll never forget.

I did actually use some of the money, besides the acupuncture, on seeing the doctor again privately, because I desperately need more information regarding the treatment, and for which my six monthly NHS appointment didn't answer.

The question as to how I spent the money was never an issue. The person told me to do with it what I would, and I doubt they'd even worried if I spent it all in the pub.

Happily, emotionally I'm in a much better place right now.

Who knows, some of that might be down to that moment of kindness by that one person.
 
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I hope your acupuncture is helping

i can also say that the medical system absolutely stinks in the way that they say - "here this is what the problem is, here is a ****ty pamflet, off you go, come back in six months and you will be able to ask me all the questions that pop into your head over the next couple of weeks, but even then i wont give you a straight answer.

but anyway...... i am glad you are in a happier place.
 
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