Animals killed for training

[Accyexplorer]

Are the guilty animals not the ones who do the fighting instead of saying no?

Yes,although they aren't as guilty as the politicians for starting the ruddy things.

Who says it's controversial? A fish-and-chip wrapper like the Mirror and you?

Incidentally, do you worry over the fate of "innocent" pigs when you're chomping your way through your sausage butties?

Who says it's not controversial? You and a few "accywebbers".here are 4000+ that disagree:
https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/mod-stop-cruely-shooting-live-pigs-for-military-training
I don't like sausage butties

 

[Wynonie Harris]

Yes,although they aren't as guilty as the politicians for starting the ruddy things.



Who says it's not controversial? You and a few "accywebbers".here are 4000+ that disagree:
https://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/mod-stop-cruely-shooting-live-pigs-for-military-training
I don't like sausage butties

4,000 out of a population of 60m? Hardly a mass protest, is it? Whether you like sausage butties or not, the point I was making is that if you're a meat eater, you're using animals for your convenience, so it seems somewhat hypocritical to protest about this.

 

[Boeing Guy]

Yes,although they aren't as guilty as the politicians for starting the ruddy things.

So if you take the Queen's Shilling your guilty......

We have an Armed forces to protect our National Interests, so,thing that out Trident Nuclear Deterrent cannot do on its own.
You ignored my comment on the small fact that treatment practices on the battlefield often lead to major advances in treatment in Casualty, Trauma for one.
You have twice now posted that wars for,greed, oil, land etc are not, in your opinion, right. Well here's a surprise, most of us would agree with that.

However our serving Lads and Lasses deserve the very best treatment if they are injured, in fact I am still mad that Teflon and the One Eyed Scottish Idiot broke the covenant the UK government had with our Armed Forces, but I digress.

As I said earlier, have you ever taken any drug, they are tested on animals, sometimes with unpalatable results, but they do not get the coverage the Great Daily Mirror gives this.
If you will read a rag then what do you expect.....

 

[Less]

Well, BG you've just knackered your chances of the creep thanking you for your input.
Still not to worry, you are only one of the few 'AccyWebbers', that it thought needed to be asked, pity it didn't like the answers.

 

[Eric]

the small fact that treatment practices on the battlefield often lead to major advances in treatment in Casualty, Trauma for one.

This argument has been advanced at least since Hippocrates: "He who would become a surgeon should find an army and follow it." It's also worth arguing that advances in aircraft design and safety are accelerated by a good old fashioned knock-down, drag-out war. But in all cases of war acting as an accelerant to scientific and technological development, lots of questions go begging for answers. Not the least is: "Is it worth tens of millions of deaths?"

I'm sure that most of us are aware of the use of animals for testing drugs. And many are aware that alternatives are available, and are being introduced.

What irks me is that, with our seemingly unlimited inventive capacity, we still use barbaric methods.

Oh, and Churchill liked pigs.

 

[Accyexplorer]

Well, BG you've just knackered your chances of the creep thanking you for your input.
Still not to worry, you are only one of the few 'AccyWebbers', that it thought needed to be asked, pity it didn't like the answers.

Please explain how I'm a creep less?
If you must know I do appreciate BG's views (even if I don't agree fully)....


It's your comments I find hard to digest

 

[Margaret Pilkington]

Eric, I also like pigs. I like most animals. I certainly would not condone cruel practices.
But the fact is skills need to be developed. Skills that might determine whether some soldier lives or dies.
God alone knows why this practice is outlawed in this country.....but there are perhaps many things that ought to be outlawed here but are not.
There are many moral values which have gone to the wall....that leave society poorer.
There are some things in life which are unpalatable......people will buy cheap eggs from battery raised chickens. They will never give a thought to whether their breakfast came from an ethical source.

If you are vegan or vegetarian who never uses products from animals then I can see why you would have a problem with this practice.
But soldiers and the saving of their lives trump pigs every time.

 

[Less]

Please explain how I'm a creep less?

If you must know I do appreciate BG's views (even if I don't agree fully)....





It's your comments I find hard to digest

Just the way you are it seems natural to you.

As for my comments being difficult to digest, I certainly don't mind that, I have already mentioned where I thought you could improve, you've proved me wrong you neither can nor wish to improve.

 

[DaveinGermany]

You're patrolling some backwater unfriendly village, one of your guys trips an IED & you come under sustained fire by armed insurgents! They blaze away then disappear, you've got 1 definite casualty your mate lying there pumping his life blood into the ground from where his legs used to be, your guys bang on a tourniquet then cover his stumps with field dressings, while trying to plug the other deep penetration wounds,

Then you see you've got 2 other guys down, gunshot wounds! Your "Medic" knows these guys are more serious though less obviously wounded, the bullet goes in leaving a pencil size hole & punches out a fist sized hole through the exit wound! The other guy is grunting, pale but all you can see is the entry wound nothing has come out the other side, the lads Haemorrhaging badly, if you panic & don't know what to do you lose the guy! But you've seen this before, the pig that was shot to train you how, you've got this covered.

This boy's going to be fine because your training kicks in & what seemed excessive in far away Denmark in classroom conditions pays dividends in the field.

And that, is why I don't have an issue with this training.

 

[Boeing Guy]

Voice of sanity Dave

 

[accyman]

Morning folks,
Well I must say I'm pretty shocked at the responses so far.
I understand they use pigs because their physiology is similar to ours,why not use dead ones?

same reason why i dont sleep with dead women

they work better when their blood is been pumped around their body



if they practiced on dead pigs they would only be fit for treating dead soldiers which kinda defeats the idea of a medic lol

i suppose at a push they could put dead pigs on life support perhasps ?

 

[Accyexplorer]

OLIVER STONE EXPOSES HORRIFIC MILITARY TRAINING.

WARNING SOME VIEWERS MAY FIND THIS DISTURBING.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KKb1pcZ_MWA

Read some of the comments while there

 

[accyman]

that video is shocking

ready steady cook has gone down hill somewhat

 

[Margaret Pilkington]

OLIVER STONE EXPOSES HORRIFIC MILITARY TRAINING.

WARNING SOME VIEWERS MAY FIND THIS DISTURBING.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KKb1pcZ_MWA

Read some of the comments while there

This is very different to what is going on in Denmark.

The animals used are humanely anaesthetised before any practice is done.
You post something like this which is not at all similar. In that sense you are provoking a controversy.
You link the two situations as if they are the same.......and while PETA do some excellent work, they are in the business to shock.
The video is done for the maximum shock impact. I am not saying that it doesn't happen because I haven't got enough knowledge about what happens across the pond.

As I previously said in another post. I do not condone cruelty to animals, but humans trump animals when it comes to providing for care in life or death situations. You have to have been in those situations in some shape or form to understand them.
Killing pigs is unpleasant...but watching a person die because you haven't got the skills/equipment to save them, lives with you every day of your life.

 

[cashman]

Its a deliberate attempt to do just that.

 

[Less]

OLIVER STONE EXPOSES HORRIFIC MILITARY TRAINING.



WARNING SOME VIEWERS MAY FIND THIS DISTURBING.



http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KKb1pcZ_MWA



Read some of the comments while there

You asked why I called you creep? Then you give a fine example, in a sad attempt to prove yourself correct you link to something that isn't being discussed and you do it after Dave in Germany gave a very good scenario of why it needs to be done, to save human lives.

Wave your magic wand, stop wars, then this training won't be needed.
Until then, support our troops they deserve the best when they are out there.

 

[Margaret Pilkington]

Accyexplorer, You obviously believe what you are saying to be true....that this situation is a controversy...that it is wrong, that there is no justification for animals to be used in this way(however humanely they are treated).
I would say to you, that even when you have a stong belief, it doesn't make it fact.
I think your posting of the Oliver Stone/Peta sanctioned video is flawed in promoting your conviction in your belief.
Peta are biased(in favour of animals).....so they are not reliable independent reporters.

 

[Accyexplorer]

This is very different to what is going on in Denmark.

The animals used are humanely anaesthetised before any practice is done.
You post something like this which is not at all similar. In that sense you are provoking a controversy.
You link the two situations as if they are the same.......and while PETA do some excellent work, they are in the business to shock.
The video is done for the maximum shock impact. I am not saying that it doesn't happen because I haven't got enough knowledge about what happens across the pond.

As I previously said in another post. I do not condone cruelty to animals, but humans trump animals when it comes to providing for care in life or death situations. You have to have been in those situations in some shape or form to understand them.
Killing pigs is unpleasant...but watching a person die because you haven't got the skills/equipment to save them, lives with you every day of your life.

I agree it is made for the shock effect,and it does it's job well IMHO.But I bet it's not that far from what is happening in Denmark.

 

[Less]

I agree it is made for the shock effect,and it does it's job well IMHO.But I bet it's not that far from what is happening in Denmark.

Allow me to make a suggestion.

When you wander through dangerous empty buildings if you are ever unfortunate enough to have an accident that needs a paramedic to attend to your needs, do not allow him to help you unless you make sure he isn't ex army. It would be hypocritical of you to be saved by someone that has been on this course, after all you are no better than a pig, are you?

 

[Margaret Pilkington]

I agree it is made for the shock effect,and it does it's job well IMHO.But I bet it's not that far from what is happening in Denmark.

No, I don't believe it is anything like the video....but as I have said before believing doesn't make it fact.

The video you have posted weakens your argument(well, it certainly doesn't strengthen it) because it is not independent. It is filmed by an organisation which has its own agenda...it could have been edited, it could have been faked to make the maximum mileage out of the shock tactics it uses.