That's very sad.
It's hard for relatives, who love the person concerned.
I hope my relatives love me enough to know I've decided what I have, whilst of sound mind, and respect my wishes.
Assisted Death
- Thread starter claytonx
- Start date
That's very sad.
It's hard for relatives, who love the person concerned.
I hope my relatives love me enough to know I've decided what I have, whilst of sound mind, and respect my wishes.
Got it cashy,but Garinda when it came down to it,I did say no I could`nt accept it,maybe selfish on my part,but do you think it is assisted death,maybe by the back door?
The living will Cashy was legal,drafted by solicitors and as far as I can gather,recognised by the nursing profession,so again I ask is it assisted death?
No, it isn't assisted death. A living will is something entirely different.
Assisted death is the end of life by giving some drug to end the life......in this country illegal at present, but in other countries the drug is prescribed by a physician but the patient themselves administer the drug which will kill them.
In a living will the patient will have signed a legal document which outlines that no medical interventions are to be used to extend their life. This does not usually mean the withdrawal of nursing care to keep them comfortable, or pain free. It is recognised by the nursing and medical profession.
Assisted death is the end of life by giving some drug to end the life......in this country illegal at present, but in other countries the drug is prescribed by a physician but the patient themselves administer the drug which will kill them.
In a living will the patient will have signed a legal document which outlines that no medical interventions are to be used to extend their life. This does not usually mean the withdrawal of nursing care to keep them comfortable, or pain free. It is recognised by the nursing and medical profession.
This subject poses n interesting question to me- A good friend of ours was rushed to Blackpool,Pre- Christmas after suffering a heart attack, she was saved by being bumped wi those doofers 17 times thank god, My question is -Would that treatment have been denied if she had a Living Will in place?
No I don't think it is Stevie, if some one has a valid living will made when in sound mind, and decides they don't want resuscitation, then its their choice. Its like people who refuse to have a blood transfusion for religious reasons, it is their wish and there is nothing medical staff can do to overturn that decision.
My neighbour's sister died recently of some form of Lateral schlerosis at only 52 -she had made a living will to refuse artificial help with breathing, she was given morphine to ease suffering but I think that has to be very carefully monitored as it can supress breathing..Margaret will no doubt be able to correct me.
It has to be carefully monitored in any case, nearly sure they have a book on the ward that has to be signed my the nurse (maybe even a staff nurse or above) when this type of medication is administered
John, that is because Morphine is regulated by the Dangerous Drugs Act(1920) and is what is known as a controlled drug........and yes Dianne, Morphine does depress the respiratory centre in the brain....all opiates do this, but the effect is much more pronounced in the absence of pain.....so if you give someone who is painfree, a good dose of morphine, it is a good way to see them off this mortal coil......thier breathing will just get shallower and shallower until it stops altogether.
I think the DDa was brought up to date in the seventies, and I don't know if the Shipman case made the authotities look at the use of controlled drugs again....can't remember.
Would have to check that out.
Would have to check that out.
I must admit to being a little ambivalent on this subject.
Would I wish to be helped to die?
I don't know, honestly, I don't. It would depend on my prognosis and how much pain, inconvenience and loss of dignity was involved. I must admit I am a bit of a coward when it comes to pain.
The thing that naffs me off about this whole subject is that we are actually having the discussion in the first place. I am an adult taxpayer and yet the organisation that I help to fund appears institutionally incapable of treating me as an adult.
I am advised on a regular basis what I should and should not eat and how often. I am restricted in what drugs I may legally purchase. I must apply for a license to do anything more complex than passing water. I getting just about sick to the back teeth of the army of concerned professionals nannying me to death.
And not content with adding insult to injury but twisting the knife too, the decision as to whether or not I can legally end my life when I have had enough of it is in the hands of people like Graham Jones and his best mate, Ed Millband and is something over which I will never be allowed any say whatsoever.
There is something seriously and sadly wrong with our society.
Would I wish to be helped to die?
I don't know, honestly, I don't. It would depend on my prognosis and how much pain, inconvenience and loss of dignity was involved. I must admit I am a bit of a coward when it comes to pain.
The thing that naffs me off about this whole subject is that we are actually having the discussion in the first place. I am an adult taxpayer and yet the organisation that I help to fund appears institutionally incapable of treating me as an adult.
I am advised on a regular basis what I should and should not eat and how often. I am restricted in what drugs I may legally purchase. I must apply for a license to do anything more complex than passing water. I getting just about sick to the back teeth of the army of concerned professionals nannying me to death.
And not content with adding insult to injury but twisting the knife too, the decision as to whether or not I can legally end my life when I have had enough of it is in the hands of people like Graham Jones and his best mate, Ed Millband and is something over which I will never be allowed any say whatsoever.
There is something seriously and sadly wrong with our society.
If you think that your governments care about individuals - think again.
There is a policy in operation to reduce world population.
If you happen to be a 'useless eater' beware.
Laws to make suicide easier will happen, but will be restricted to non productive members of society. There will be the added bonus of benefit and NHS savings.
The law is more preferable (to governments) than the expensive alternative of providing effective pain relief and palliative care, which are rarely provided.
So you think you are being given a choice? - it is Hobsons choice!
There is a policy in operation to reduce world population.
If you happen to be a 'useless eater' beware.
Laws to make suicide easier will happen, but will be restricted to non productive members of society. There will be the added bonus of benefit and NHS savings.
The law is more preferable (to governments) than the expensive alternative of providing effective pain relief and palliative care, which are rarely provided.
So you think you are being given a choice? - it is Hobsons choice!
Margaret, I have witnessed effective pain relief, and palliative care being given......and with compassion and dignity too.(anyone who has used or witnessed the services of the hospice would attest to this.....I have even seen similar care being given on my own ward....helped by the skills of the pain control and palliative care nurses who came out from the hospice)
But not everyone wants to go down that route.......especially because it relies on the loss of independence......and for some people this is untenable
But not everyone wants to go down that route.......especially because it relies on the loss of independence......and for some people this is untenable
Of course, no one has to "give" anyone morph ... the stuff is readily available on the street at around $15 for a grey ... doctors have over-prescribed it over here, and there seems to be more than enough floating around. Morph and other pain killers ... you know the ones I mean ... have become the drugs of choice for lotsa folks, particularly the working girls who don't want track marks on their bodies. But you probably know this, having worked in the health care system.
Eric, I never worked with drug addicts(though we did sometimes get patients who were drug dependent, on our ward - they got Methadone while they were with us)....and yes drugs are available on the streets....but whether those who wish to end their lives would know how to go about getting some...or whether they would be well enough to do this is a moot point.
Any relative who assisted, by procuring some of the illegal stuff, would be dealt with by the courts.
Any relative who assisted, by procuring some of the illegal stuff, would be dealt with by the courts.
Is it really all that hard to come by
Maybe .... never thought of it really. I think I have spent too much time tending bar and driving a hack (all in the pursuit of a liberal arts education
... never really enjoyed the life
). But it really isn't all that hard to come by. Oh, and we do have methadone clinics ... free of course, with taxi chits for those on welfare and disability.
Margaret P, it is rare that I disagree with you, but on this occaision I feel I have to.
Like you, I have witnessed the administration of pain relief and palliative care to a person very close to me who was dying of cancer which left her unable to eat. Effectively, she starved to death. I also witnessed the apalling laxity, rudeness and general lack of care exhibited by the staff of Christies Hospital, Blackburn Royal, the local Hospice and the GP's service. If it had not been for the Macmillan nurse an elderly woman would have died in a deal more agony and fear than she eventually did. The experience was anything but cosy and reassuring and supportive. It scarred all of us who witnessed it. Moreso because we all knew it was largely unecessary but were powerless to do anything about it, no matter how loudly we remonstrated.
I had a pretty low opinion of the NHS and its staff before this shocking death. My opinion of it and them now could not be any lower. I DREAD the day that I should have to rely on the NHS for anything. Let alone End of Life care.
Like you, I have witnessed the administration of pain relief and palliative care to a person very close to me who was dying of cancer which left her unable to eat. Effectively, she starved to death. I also witnessed the apalling laxity, rudeness and general lack of care exhibited by the staff of Christies Hospital, Blackburn Royal, the local Hospice and the GP's service. If it had not been for the Macmillan nurse an elderly woman would have died in a deal more agony and fear than she eventually did. The experience was anything but cosy and reassuring and supportive. It scarred all of us who witnessed it. Moreso because we all knew it was largely unecessary but were powerless to do anything about it, no matter how loudly we remonstrated.
I had a pretty low opinion of the NHS and its staff before this shocking death. My opinion of it and them now could not be any lower. I DREAD the day that I should have to rely on the NHS for anything. Let alone End of Life care.
Last edited:
I must admit to being a little ambivalent on this subject.
Would I wish to be helped to die?
I don't know, honestly, I don't. The thing that naffs me off about this whole subject is that we are actually having the discussion in the first place. I am an adult taxpayer and yet the organisation that I help to fund appears institutionally incapable of treating me as an adult.
I am advised on a regular basis what I should and should not eat and how often. I am restricted in what drugs I may legally purchase. I must apply for a license to do anything more complex than passing water. I getting just about sick to the back teeth of the army of concerned professionals nannying me to death.
And not content with adding insult to injury but twisting the knife too, the decision as to whether or not I can legally end my life when I have had enough of it is in the hands of people like Graham Jones and his best mate, Ed Millband and is something over which I will never be allowed any say whatsoever.
There is something seriously and sadly wrong with our society.
It is by adding your voice to discussions such as these that society as a whole, and the individuals that make it up come to some concensus on what is right or wrong - laws are made and boundaries laid down, for the good of, if not all, then at least of the majority.
As you high-light the main problem currently is the translation of the collective voice through the political system, which would then allow change. The rules are there to be tested and challenged, as society itself and the individuals that make it up are constantly changing.
You are obviously one of societies rule testers and question much of what is imposed on individuals. Constant discussion and the sounding of the communal voice is the way to effect change in a democracy- so lets keep talking about even the most controversial of arguments which are part of all our lives.
Let's not forget that each individual also has to take responsibility for his actions within society, and take the consequences of those actions. The major social changes of the last century would never have come about if not for those who questioned the norm and voiced concerns and exchanged knowledge and experience.
Currently there are some people who risk imprisonment by going with their loved ones to clinics in Switzerland where they can end their lives in a dignified way. Some are challenging the judicial system directly and there has recently been an overview which suggests that medics in the UK should be able to offer such a possibility to all terminally ill patients with less than one year to live. I am personally in favour of their efforts at change in this direction. Sorry this a long-read if you've made it this far
The following is extracted from philosophy paper I translated a few years ago, which in part prompted the above
"As we all know, in our age, the most challenging bioethical questions are about what a person is, what are his rights, his unity and his proper boundaries. The notion of “person” is a static one: it implies invariance, uniformity, stability, regularity and predictability, all notions extraneous to life.
Man is a community (of ideas, of signs, of interpretations), as the community is the most consistent individuality: there is a continuity, among selves, among ideas, and among inner experiences of any human being.
The community is not simply the collection of its individuals, as an organism is not simply a whole composed, as a machine, by the assemblage of its parts. It has an identity, a consistency, a coordinated body and a ‘social soul’, that has aims, hopes and common memories, that feels and suffers. The community is thus more real and concrete than any single individual"