Bbc3

see its here in an unofficial way

what u have is a group of people sayin if it was shariah this and that wud happen - so they rule on divorces etc this way but all the decisions can still be challenged in the british courts

so for example if me and my missus had a fight and i on her. when it came to the divorce and i refused to give her a divorce cause i was being an arse then she cud contact the shariah council or the muslim council and they wud make a decision if she was elegible for a divorce. if i still refused the shariah people can put into practise legal measures whereby it would still have to go thru english courts. alternatively if when i met the shariah council they said oh according to the shariah law u must divorce ur wife and i was willing to co-operate they wud grant the divorce.

no decision is final final. they're more of a intermediatry body rather than an actual law enforcement thing
 
mani said:
alternatively if when i met the shariah council they said oh according to the shariah law u must divorce ur wife and i was willing to co-operate they wud grant the divorce.
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Just to clear up a couple of points ......even if you a divorce thru the 'mosque' you would still be legally married under English law and a civil divorce would still be required thru an English law court .( Do the Imans in a mosque have the same legal powers as a Priest or a Vicar) he is licensed under English law, (various marriage acts going back to HenryVIII) to perfom marriages, otherwise a registrar office wedding is also required,
A bit like what the Catholics used to have , they could get an anullment from Rome saying their marriage was no longer valid in the eyes of the Church but a decree from an English court was also required otherwise either party who re-married were guilty of bigamy . :confused: :confused:
 
no if u agree to their judgement u sign legal divorce documents. u sign the civil divorce. its similar power as u say to a vicar. but not every imam has the authority to award a divorce - marriage yes.

i'm not sure as to what it wud say on the divorce but in essance u sign the legal docs and then they get forwarded to the uk courts
 
Kangeroo court's will always function in close knit communities but will die off with the self appointed 'judges' or so called 'Islamic Scollars' oh how I hate 'plastic titles.
 
Thanks ... that cleared a lot up ... more rewarding this way than googling. On the whole, Sharia doesn't seem all that bad ... has some positive points. It comes to mind that many Canadian First Nations have similar stuff going for them, particularly in the case of the justice system. One drawback that I can see, is that it might retard the speed at which immigrant groups are intergrated into society .... and it seems as if it could cause conflict between the generations in a particular culture.

One difference between Sharia and laws which apply to Canadian First Nations (and there are over 600 of them) is that First Nations are, well, nations. And they can definitely not be called immigrants as they were here first.

It's something to mull over. Thanx again.
 
yeah the prob is that shariah in its strictest form has got alot of bad publicity

so when you read the papers and sayin shariah law is set to be implemented in the uk its a shock tactic by the papers. so everyone just reads the title and not the whole truth is written and people rightly so think their country is about to be taken over.

it does help alot - like the girls who's husbands want to b real donkeys and not grant them the divorce they can arbitrate between them and if it comes to nothing they can grant it islamically as the other person as not responded etc. alot of girls wud b stuck for a few yrs in the british legal system if they went that way. then sometimes its even more complicated when the groom isnt even in the uk and they try to get a divorce - they can still do that if all they've done is had an islamic marriage - not a british registration.
 
mani said:
yeah the prob is that shariah in its strictest form has got alot of bad publicity

so when you read the papers and sayin shariah law is set to be implemented in the uk its a shock tactic by the papers. so everyone just reads the title and not the whole truth is written and people rightly so think their country is about to be taken over.

it does help alot - like the girls who's husbands want to b real donkeys and not grant them the divorce they can arbitrate between them and if it comes to nothing they can grant it islamically as the other person as not responded etc. alot of girls wud b stuck for a few yrs in the british legal system if they went that way. then sometimes its even more complicated when the groom isnt even in the uk and they try to get a divorce - they can still do that if all they've done is had an islamic marriage - not a british registration.
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Whoa there Kemo Sabe :D ........so are now your telling us that marriages are taking place in the UK and not being registered with the local civil authorties ?. How do the families go about registering births and tax stuff, applying for passports , citizenship papers for spouses imported from oveseas etc.

on another note , Eric mentioned in an earlier post about the Canadian First Nations and we have similar laws here in the US on 'American Indian' tribal territories , where local laws take some precedence over Federal/National laws but I doubt they extend to marriage/divorce/legitimacy/inheritance issues .
Seems to me , and this is just my opinion but all this multi-culturism is getting out of hand and is now becomming more and more like 'tribalism' and we all know that 'tribalism' does not work , wether it be in Europe (Yugoslavia) Africa (Rwanda/Sudan) Asia (the Hmongs in Laos and Burma)
Traditions that may be acceptable in a monocultural/homeland society should in no way be acceptable when the person moves into another society , here in California there is a growing movement among a section of the expatriate south Asian community for a 'free Kalistan" (are we going to see another seccessionist war on the sub-continent), more tribalism, the person/s should in my view be prepared to accept the rules and norms of the new society or return to his or her own homeland/society and not be allowed to complain or demand about his/her human/cultural rights being infringed on, Like the old saying 'When in Rome ........' :confused: :confused:
 
*L*

i'm sayin the marriages that havent taken place in the uk! hence hte groom hasnt come over yet.... *LOL*

calm down dear - its only a thread!

yeah the free khalistan movement has been goin for a long long time - the sikhs who want this nation feel the brits, the muslims and the hindu's shafted them during partition and didnt give them their own nation. this whol movement climaxed in 1984 during the storming of the sikh golden temple by the army and led to the assasination of indira gandi. they were also responsible for that air india flight that got blown up off the coast of ireland that was going to canada.

i doubt that movement is gonna have enough support for this - enough visible support. there's too many sikhs in india who are afraid to show their support as after the assasination of indira millions of sikhs were perscuted, harmed or killed in revenge since then they've always felt the opressed minority despite the PM of india being sikh himself.

there's too many people who complain about the west and its lifestyle and then happily live here - pre-9/11 there was a few ppl goin on about how afganistan was goin the right way in implementing shariah law to its strictest and how uk was corrupt etc - so i said to one - whats stopping u then? if its that brilliant why arent u there? he just walked away.
 
mani said:
there's too many people who complain about the west and its lifestyle and then happily live here - pre-9/11 there was a few ppl goin on about how afganistan was goin the right way in implementing shariah law to its strictest and how uk was corrupt etc - so i said to one - whats stopping u then? if its that brilliant why arent u there? he just walked away.
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Hit the nail right on the head there, Mani. Karma sent.
 
Great point Mani. People go on about how great it is elsewhere but I don't see them packing their bags to go.

I didn't see the program about the Riaz family, due to not being here, but from what I heard at the time it was a case of the father feeling he had lost control with his wife being so active in the wider community. The suggestion that she was having a relationship outside her marriage was a terrible slur on her character. I don't think he, the husband, understood how someone can have friendships and meet people on a platonic basis or related to business or other meetings. He may have felt very insecure too with life here not being what he expected and not known where to turn.

At one time I just couldn't understand the mentality and logic behind these so-called honour killings but I read a book a couple of years ago whilst on holiday. I can't remember the title but it was by an American woman whose father had been shot by terrorists. She had wanted to understand why and so she had gone to find these people, incognito, and had ended up becoming a friend of the family and put over the way they thought and felt so well that it became easier to understand why they behaved the way they did. It also made me realise how hard it is to change the way of thinking of people who don't know any different. Forgiving would seem like a weakness to them and yet this woman was able to forgive them by getting to know them. It was really weird getting inside their heads.

Did anybody record the program? I would like to watch it if possible.
 
lancsdave said:
Go back to post 1 in this thread and read it all again until you actually come across people gloating. Let us all know EXACTLY where anyone has gloated and I will apologise for not understanding your assumptions/speculation
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I wasn't involved with post 1, i was offended at a response to me simply because I stated that its wrong for bernadette and anyone for that matter referring to their death as an honour killing. How many of you where friends with any of that family and had to stand at that funeral with your best friend and watch him bury his family? How many of you had to comfort your best friend through that and there not being a single phrase in the english language that could take any of that pain away from him? If I dont defend Riaz' memory by being disgusted at the term used to describe their deaths then I have been a failure as a friend to him if I back down, about how offended I am, and how offended he wouldve been that people are giving such an empty term to his families death.
 
So back on thread!!

I have read this thread and MOST people have made very good sense!!

Some interesting things that Mani has posted too.
 
slinky said:
So back on thread!!

I have read this thread and MOST people have made very good sense!!

Some interesting things that Mani has posted too.
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I thought Mani's posts were very interesting, he talked a lot of sense and taught us a bit more of how things actually happen.
 
I think you need to take a step back blazey and start again at the beginning of the thread and see that the subject started due to the programme being aired on TV regarding the riaz family...now the programme dubbed it as a honour killing and it was pointed out in this thread that it should be called anything but.....

In fact bernadette actually put:

The Honour Killings as they are called. You must have read about the Riaz family From Accrington, a mother and her four daughters murdered in a house fire last year.

Mani posted later in the thread his thoughts on the situation and how it is to live in the asian community and how the local leaders could have handled this and many other situations of late

This was respectfully applauded and thanked for enlightening us

As for the strawberry people, bernadette was actually saying she couldn't care less if this had happened amongst any colour it is still murder...so how can you take that out of context!!??
 
My goodness you take a comment not aimed at you as an insult and turn it into an argument about you. If you can't read the comment and take it in the context it was posted you have a problem. Once again I will say this thread is not about you but about a poor family who were MURDERED.
 
I would like to apologize to any family of close friends of Caneze Riaz and her beautiful children for the way this thread has degenerated into a slanging match. I think their memory is worth much more than this. It would help if everybody read the thread before jumping to conclusions and didn't read just bits here and there. Anyway before I digress from the point this is just a heartfelt apology to anyone of you who may read it.
 
BERNADETTE said:
I would like to apologize to any family of close friends of Caneze Riaz and her beautiful children for the way this thread has degenerated into a slanging match. I think their memory is worth much more than this. It would help if everybody read the thread before jumping to conclusions and didn't read just bits here and there. Anyway before I digress from the point this is just a heartfelt apology to anyone of you who may read it.
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(It should be you know who,) apologising on here, it should be the one that jumped on the bandwaggon to turn it into a "I love me myself and I platform, to promote their own over inflated ego, thus nullifying the message of your thread Bernie.
 
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