Benefit reforms.

garinda

garinda

Give, give, give member
Overlooker
The Government have announced massive reforms of the benefit system, particularly Incapacity Benefit.

They are trying to get 80% of people currently on it back to work in the next ten years.

Is this a much needed reform to get people who have grown accustomed to a life on benefits back to work, or are Labour more Tory than the Tories?
 
Last edited:
New Labour have been more Tory than the Tories for ages now. If you look back at teh socialist Labour party of the 70's and 80's this lot are unrecognisable.

I believe that the reforms are a good thing as there are loads of people I personally know of that should be working but aren't purely because they can't earn anywhere near the amount they get on benefits.
 
It's about time, but unfortunately I just know that there will be people who genuinely should be on incapacity benefit and will be forced to return to work. I hope they are radical but sensitive in their approach to this.
 
Benefits should be a helping hand......not a lifestyle. Having said that my hubby worked in engineering for all of his working life......he had a stroke whilst at work some 7 years ago. He has recovered well but because of his medical condition I think he would find it hard to get a job....he is also 63 so his age is not in his favour. He worries that people will look at him and think he is OK.....he does LOOK OK, but his memory is bad and his confidence since his stroke is shot to pieces. It worries him to think that some bureaucrat is going to tell him he is fit to go back to work.
 
But surely the government should be going after those on Income Support rather than those on Incapacity.
How many single parents in I.S could be working ?

and the idea of giving doctors cash benefits if they sign people off the sick is in my mind a total disgrace.

One doctors surgey just off Blackburn road will be rubbing his hands in glee at this as his main concern isnt for his patients but for how much money he can get. I know this through experience from him. He struck me off his practise because he was going to do a minor op on me at Accy Vic, but when i turned up the staff nurse refused to assist because she felt that he was not capable of doing it as complication had set in pre-surgery. The doc sent me home with a message to go see him in the morning. When i did the doc ranted at me for his @financial loss@ at not being able to perform the surgery himself. A few days later a letter came from Preston saying i had been struck off from his surgery and the reason he gave was I was a violent and abusive person who he feared.
Now go and work out how many docs will be looking at the cash aspect of this and striking people off the sick ....
 
I'm probably in the same boat as Marg P's husband, in the fact that I look well a lot of the time, particularly when dancing on the banquette in the Stag, and it did used to bother me what people thought about me at first.

When I've personally had dealings with the benefits people they have been helpful. The fact that Parkinson's is degenerative, and at the moment incurrable, probably helps,as I don't have to have any reviews, and they don't want to see me again.

I'm probably as guilty as the next person when it comes to judging people. In Accrington this afternnon I was listening while a young chavy couple discussing their benefits, and felt angry that for them it appeared to be a lifestyle choice.

At the age of thirty nine, it was the worst day of my life when I was told I would never work again. I'll never starve, but I do miss earning my own money,and having the ability to save up.

Hopefully my days of having to jump through hoops to get the benefits and pension I'm entitled to are behind me, and I won't have to when the new reforms are brought in.
 
Last edited:
With any luck the people who have genuine degenerative conditions such as yours Rindy will continue to be ok, and the lifestyle choice people will be the ones that they target. I can think of several people off the top of my head who would benefit from a hard days work....:)
 
They'll be pushing people who suffer depression back to work when they should be pushing them to get help, instead of just asking them if they want help. As if a depressed person is going to ask for help. THEN they'll be eventually fit for work and safe to work around.
 
It's not bennefit reforms thats needed to get people of the sick, because they are sick, and anyone on the sick long term has to have an examination by the social to confirm they are genuinely sick. It's the NHS that needs the reforms.
 
Unfortunately Mad, this is obviously not the case. I know of someone who fell 6 ft from a ladder aged 17. He is now 40 and hasn't worked a day since. He claims incapacity benefit, has his council house paid for along with his council tax. He claims his knee is badly damaged so he can't work and gets the old sticks out whenever he has to go for an interview. Yet I've seen him running the 3/4 mile from his house to teh pub when he thought he was going top miss last orders. It really annoys me that good hardworking people pay taxes to keep people like him in a life he has become acustomed to.

Genuinley deserving cases I have no problems with and I know that teh above are a minority, hopefully this piece of work will catch these
 
I also know three generations of one family who have never worked a day in their collective lives......they always seem to be able to afford a holiday.....and don't seem to be short of the things that the rest of us have to save up for. My hubby worries that because he looks well he will be denied his incapacity benefit......we would survive without the benefit but it would be much harder for us to meet the bills. It isn't his choice to be on benefit.....but when he tells a prospective employer that he has had a stroke they don't want to know.
 
I am also concerned that genuine people who are really and truly unft and incapable of doing a full days work will be forced into work because they look OK. I know people who have never worked a day in their lives (OK maybe a day and a half) but they are the ones who know all the angles and how to con people. The genuine cases, the people who are honest and will say that some days they feel better than others are possibly going to end up being expected to do more than they are capable of.
 
I work so I know how it feels to know I'm driving constantly for 7 hours with a ten minute break while they sit sponging all day but I'm still concerned that people who just suffer from depression will be seen as capable of working. I'd be worried that If i worked with someone with depression that shouldnt be working that they might do something silly, i might even end up with a knife in my back. If people are sick, they can also be unpredictable.
 
Just to let you all know, it's already happening, I'm on this benefit and just before Christmas had to be assessed, I didn't get the results until after the new year.
They finally sent me a letter saying that I would be entitled to benefits until the middle of 2007.
Last Monday I got a letter from Jobcentre plus Telling me they want to see me to discuss help getting me back to work, all very friendly and supportive until the final sentence:-

It is important that you attend and participate in this meeting. If you do not your benefit may be affected.

So in less than a month it has been decided that I am unfit to work for about 18 months & also that I could just be someone that should be targetted as a 'potential worker'.

No wonder I find it hard to sleep at night!
 
Madhatter said:
I'm still concerned that people who just suffer from depression will be seen as capable of working. I'd be worried that If i worked with someone with depression that shouldnt be working that they might do something silly, i might even end up with a knife in my back. If people are sick, they can also be unpredictable.
Click to expand...
There is no such thing as 'Just depression' depression is a very serious and difficult illness to cope with.

However, people with depression are not neccesarily any more violent than 'normal' people, they are more likely to do harm to themselves rather than others. If you do get a knife in your back it is most probably because you have angered some-one with your views rather than because that person is depressed.

Must finish now as I've just noticed the tip of my blade isn't as sharp as it used to be, hmmm, I wonder where I can test it once I've applied the whetstone, any volunteers?:D
 
Last edited:
entwisi said:
He claims his knee is badly damaged so he can't work and gets the old sticks out whenever he has to go for an interview.
Click to expand...
I bet between us we could think of 50 jobs that could be done with a damaged knee. We have a bloke at work who is on his feet for 8 hours a day and he only has 1 leg. I think it is missing from below the knee.

You only need 1 leg to drive a fork lift truck
or a taxi
or work in a call centre
or write software
or .......
 
Madhatter said:
It's the NHS that needs the reforms.
Click to expand...


The NHS is reformed every week Madhatter, which is why it's in such a state. Not a week goes by without there being some sort of change in the NHS. These changes come from government level, from people so far removed from reality that they are unable to see the true picture of life on the shop floor. With every new change something else suffers and the staffing levels become even more diabolical. Experienced nurses and midwives are buggering off to Australia and New Zealand in droves, and I don't blame them. It is only a matter of time before they privatise the NHS. They've already done it with the dentists...
 
If the Government are reforming the benefits system for those claiming incapacity benefit it would need to go hand in hand with a reform of employers attitude towards disabled employee applicants. In most cases the employer favours the able bodied for employment, how many times can a disabled person be knocked backed for jobs before believing themselves that they are un-employable.
 
The system is totally wrong the problem, I believe, is that to SOFTEN the UNEMPLOYMENT figures people were "put on" DISSABILITY ALLOWANCE.
I am on dissability allowance, after a heart attack in august 2004, my Cardiac Specialist says, and it's true, that I have a very complicated medical history.
I wish I was fit enough to work, but I know I'm not.
Yes I get dissability allowance but I pay half of that myself,in income tax, because I paid to 15% of my earnings to a pension scheme for the past 20 years.
Some employers do employ the requisit disabled persons, others greet them with open arms as cheap labour.
Leave the people on disability alone and get those who won't work.
On telvision last night a guy with nine children said he cannot afford to get a job because benefits were so good.
Catch the benefit cheats and make them repay what they stole.
We come then across the old adage we can't let the children suffer so we have to give the benefits.
We often you see a very young couple, with child/children, both smoking, wandering around the streets, why aren't these men at work and supporting their own children, how do they get away with it.
 
Last edited:
I have mixed feelings on this. Those who are genuinely incapacitated, for whatever cause, should be allowed to receive benefits. The problem is that there are so many people claiming who are swinging the lead. We had a one day tube strike in London a while back because London Transport had sacked a tube driver (a job you do sitting down) who had been off sick for nearly 18 months, who claimed that he was unfit to work because of, as I remember, a bad back. LT were suspicious, so had him followed - to his Squash Club, where he proceeded to play a hard-fought game. What do you do about people like that? When I was working at the Royal Free, we had a man who complained that he had fallen off a ladder TWO YEARS BEFORE and was thus rendered incapable of work ever again - except that our suspicious Registrar noticed he was wearing paint-spattered Armani glasses, and reported him. Of course, he was claiming benefit and working as well, for cash.

I do agree that anyone claiming Income Support or whatever it is now should be made to do something useful, perhaps helping in a hospital or whatever. They might well decide that working for a living was not a bad alternative.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top