Corrupt Council ?

jaysay said:
Think you've hit the nail on the head JCB, why do you think I no longer give two hoots for local politics, and I was a person who was very much involved until 2001. Peter Britcliffe is a friend of mine, in fact he actually call into see me on Thursday, I wished him happy new year, for 2007 that is:D but when Graham was leader of the labour group, they were both as bad as each other, who could outdo the other, who could score the most points over the other, now it seams Ken Moss has taken on that mantle, which does him no favours what so ever. Having met Ken I actually think he's better than that, as I've said on here before he's the only Labour councillor that talks any sense, so it saddens me that he has taken this line, but people do there own thing and its up to him, but it does disappoint me nonetheless
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I have two main problems with local politics , Jaysay .
One is the way the council is run . Is it run according to Local Government legislation from Westminster , or is it run according to rules made by the ruling group ?
I was surprised by the information given by Claytonender . Such a system is undemocratic in many ways , and must lead to trouble between councillors .
I have no problem with Ken Moss . He is free to criticise anything I say , even though he has misunderstood where I am coming from . He is doing what our councillors do , indulging in party politics , and that brings me to my second main problem .

I have said before that I don't see a need for party politics in local government . Most of the issues dealt with by the council are of a non-party political nature . So the councillors seek matters that may divide them , and finding none they turn to personalising things . They get personal , and this leads to a bad form of politics .

Local politics and the Council set-up are due for a good shake up as I indicated in the quote before this one .

I am tending towards criticising the present ruling group , the Conservatives , for the present situation and hoping the Labour group will bring about reform to Council procedures .
I am open to correction if my understanding of all this is faulty .
 
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JCB said:
I have said before that I don't see a need for party politics in local government . Most of the issues dealt with by the council are of a non-party political nature . So the councillors seek matters that may divide them , and finding none they turn to personalising things . They get personal , and this leads to a bad form of politics .
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I absolutely agree with you and on the surface that's what it looks like. But there is a lot of cross party working and some Councillors are very happy to work with their opposite number.
 
jaysay said:
Think you've hit the nail on the head JCB, why do you think I no longer give two hoots for local politics, and I was a person who was very much involved until 2001. Peter Britcliffe is a friend of mine, in fact he actually call into see me on Thursday, I wished him happy new year, for 2007
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Did you dunk his biscuits?.;)
 
i worked with graham Jones for a few years in printing industry .he is has honest as the day is long..its not which party locally you want,its who's going to help you whoever polical sway..can say jonesy would help and certainly aint 'corrupt' in anyway...cant ask for anymore than that !!!! not bothered who you trust but i'll personally stand up for graham in that respect,,
 
JCB said:
I was surprised by the information given by Claytonender . .
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Labour were just as undemocratic when last they were in power for 13 years JCB, if not more, a 44 seat majority was never good for democracy and some of the things that went on behind closed doors was unbelievable, which was virtually everything:(
 
Gayle said:
I absolutely agree with you and on the surface that's what it looks like. But there is a lot of cross party working and some Councillors are very happy to work with their opposite number.
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Thanks .
I'm glad to hear some good news . Let's hope there is more of it .
 
jaysay said:
Labour were just as undemocratic when last they were in power for 13 years JCB, if not more, a 44 seat majority was never good for democracy and some of the things that went on behind closed doors was unbelievable, which was virtually everything:(
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Could that not be applied to all colours of politics though? Up here it can be like a playground fight when they disagree. Evens stevens is not always good either.
 
SPUGGIE J said:
Could that not be applied to all colours of politics though? Up here it can be like a playground fight when they disagree. Evens stevens is not always good either.
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Your right Spugs was just pointing out the Labour were no different and after being involved in local politics most of my life I'm glad I no longer have any interest what-so-ever, let um get on wi it as far as I'm concerned
 
jaysay said:
Labour were just as undemocratic when last they were in power for 13 years JCB, if not more, a 44 seat majority was never good for democracy and some of the things that went on behind closed doors was unbelievable, which was virtually everything:(
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You are making me all the more disallusioned , Jaysay .

Is the set-up beyond redemption ?
 
JCB said:
You are making me all the more disallusioned , Jaysay .

Is the set-up beyond redemption ?
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Th all point is JCB, irrespective of who controls the council, the opposition will try to pull them to pieces in the public eye, but as Gayle said earlier councillors do work together which is the way it should be, and it sure as hell is better for the people in general, I think like yourself I've been an advocate of political councils but it ain't going to happen anytime soon
 
The illusion seems to be for some people that the Tories and Labour are at each other's throats on a permanent basis and I'm happy to say that this isn't true, in fact committee meetings where no members of the Cabinet are present are usually very productive as the oneupmanship is removed.

The party divisions basically boil down to money at local level and opposition to the way in which it is spent. Currently, the Conservatives are spending our tax money as if it is going out of fashion and there is nothing that Labour can do because the Leader of the Council won't hold full council meetings so that we can vote.

The financial system within the Cabinet has engineered a situation where Peter Britcliffe has given himself £100k to spend on whatever he likes. None of that can be proven to be electioneering but I imagine that Baxenden will be in for a few heavily-publicised handouts before the bye-election.

Expect to see many more Conservative councillors presenting cheques to people in The Observer before the next round of elections. Just remember that it is your taxes that are paying for these donations whilst each of the wards are being told that there is no money for repairs and ungrades to vital services.
 
JCB said:
Is the Cabinet statutory , or is it a system created by Hyndburn Council itself ? I have concerns about it within a democracy .

I also have concerns about the Full Council meetings , which I think should be monthly at least , about Emergency Powers , about the power of the Leader , and about the Overview and Scrutiny committees.
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You might want to try asking your cousin, one Cllr Dobson.

Cabinet is a system that we have adopted and would work quite well were it not for the man at the top who keeps people in check with the carrot of financially-rewarding positions and the stick of losing them.

I am on the Overview and Scrutiny committee for resources and they are very unforgiving, even those from the Conservative side. The problem is that they barely have influence, let alone power, so any Cabinet decisions can still only be criticised, not changed. They have managed to refine certain policies over the years, however, but it does strongly depend on the whims of the Cabinet.

The only way to reform that is to reform the way that decisions are voted on and this council is not going to kick away the struts which gave it power.
 
Ken Moss said:
The only way to reform that is to reform the way that decisions are voted on and this council is not going to kick away the struts which gave it power.
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What will Labour do to reform the way that decisions are voted on if it gets into power?

Why is scrutiny made up of Councillors and not normal people with no axe to grind?
 
Neil said:
Why is scrutiny made up of Councillors and not normal people with no axe to grind?
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The theory is that Councillors ARE normal people who the electorate have put their trust in. The fact that we consider them to have an axe to grind shows how some of them (not all, Ken!) have abused that trust.

The body that looks into the way individual Councillors behave is the Standards Committee, which is chaired by a person completely independent of the Council. Maybe that body should be given the remit of looking at things like cancelling meetings to suit individual's needs.
 
Neil said:
What will Labour do to reform the way that decisions are voted on if it gets into power?
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Occasionally having full council meetings would by my suggestion.

I'm sorry to have yet another go at Peter Britcliffe but if anyone can defend cancelling full councils between July and December so that no votes can be taken between those times then they are a better man than me.

That is not my idea of democracy, I would venture to call it dictatorship.
 
Neil said:
Theory does not always work in practice though
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Hence the need for some checks and balances, and external review.

At the risk of sounding boring and repetitive, that is why the external auditors are there. If not used, they become worthless.
 
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