Does power corrupt?
- Thread starter garinda
- Start date
Sheltered life, so thats what ya call itThats what comes wi yeh leading a sheltered life.
There's always an old saying that rising political stars should heed, be careful who to step on on your way up, as you meet the same people on the way back down
doubt it jay because they get a very large pension even if they only last one term so they never have to dirty themselves with their locals again.
No but they have to live with um,
Power can and does corrupt but the real reason that the powerful always seem corrupt is down to that old statement of fact: those who seek power are those who are least suited to it. The fact is we are in the same position now that we have been in for hundreds (thousands?) of years, the people who are born at the top do whatever they can to hold on to what they've got and those who achieve the climb to the top are usually self-serving and tend to pull the ladder up behind them. Thatcher should have been a shining example to all women with ambition but instead I believe she put the idea of women leaders back years and she hardly ever had any women in her cabinet.
The only thing that surprises me anymore in politics is that politicians actually seem to think that we believe that they give a damn. Whenever the country is in a poor state (when exactly that is and how often is another argument) the most sickening thing I think a politician can say is, "We are all in this together".
People need to stop labouring under the misapprehension that our leaders care about us or the country, they do just whatever is needed to retain power, that includes lying, cheating, squirming, kissing babies and latching onto the Olympics as though it was their idea.
Long live the revolution (a revolution is something that ultimately takes you back to where you started - so that's no bloody good either).
The only thing that surprises me anymore in politics is that politicians actually seem to think that we believe that they give a damn. Whenever the country is in a poor state (when exactly that is and how often is another argument) the most sickening thing I think a politician can say is, "We are all in this together".
People need to stop labouring under the misapprehension that our leaders care about us or the country, they do just whatever is needed to retain power, that includes lying, cheating, squirming, kissing babies and latching onto the Olympics as though it was their idea.
Long live the revolution (a revolution is something that ultimately takes you back to where you started - so that's no bloody good either).
Having had the privelige of sitting on both sides of the fence, it strikes me that almost all references to politicians seem to refer to MPs at national level. Hardly any comments seem to relate to local councillors and yet when arguments come up we are lumped in with the same crowd.
The assertion that MPs come from the top and that's how they stay there is a little off the mark, though.
The assertion that MPs come from the top and that's how they stay there is a little off the mark, though.
I have long held the belief that the only difference between national politicians and local ones is that they operate on a much smaller scale. I am one of the few people who believe that we should be guided more centrally and less locally.
It always seems to me that local government exists to be a pain in the backside to people. Petty by-laws are the bain of most peoples lives and seem to do very little to enhance anyones life. Local councilors seem to "impose" things on the local populace either because they can or in an effort to leave some kind of personal legacy to the community, regardless of whether anyone wants it or not. Not meaning to offend anyone who has been a councilor (there are good ones just as there are good MP's) but I think the world would be a better place with a few less of them.
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In my opinion I think it should be the other way round, more weight behind local politicians and less from central government, local councillors are more in touch with the needs of local people. National politicians tend to forget the wishes of people who put them in Westminster, until the time comes around when they need that support again
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It strikes me that those who criticise local councillors on this website have probably never been councillors themselves. So if you think that our performance doesn't come up to the mark or that we are motivated purely by a desire for power, why not consider standing for election yourselves and see whether you can improve the standard? You may find that being a councillor is not quite as easy as you imagined!
Do you believe that the conservative party manifesto has any relevance to the day to day running of council affairs? If so in what respect?
If not why do you stand as a conservative and not as an independent?
Personally I don't have the time, inclination or lifespan to stand and fight against the closed shop of party politics that is Hyndburn Council, nor am I hypocritical enough to join a party without believing in its ideals simply to get elected.
It strikes me that those councillors/deputy mayors who don't like criticism should actually represent the people that elected them instead of making stupid comments about Kashmiri, removing benches, placing expensive pay toilets at the entrance to free toilets, butchering the town centre and giving credence to half baked, biased surveys.
Oh yeah, and maybe some of my representatives could actually represent me for ALL of the council meetings and not walk out halfway through
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I would not stand for election as a councilor simply because I would not wish to become that which I have heavily criticised over the years. There is corruption at all levels in politics and I think councilors are just as suscetible as those higher up the food chain. As I said earlier, there are good councilors as well as good MP's but I still believe that most councilors do what they do for a certain amount of self-gratification and, in the case on non-independents, pushiing the bounderies of party politics.
In reply to Jay, I agree that local councilors are a good idea in principle because they do or should have the interests of local people at heart but my experience is that mostly they do not seem to listen to local people at all. Things are built that nobody seems to want building, by-laws introduced that no-one wants and only have the effect of causing difficulites to most people and, reference my point above about party politics, which still dominates local government, even though it shouldn't.
In reply to Jay, I agree that local councilors are a good idea in principle because they do or should have the interests of local people at heart but my experience is that mostly they do not seem to listen to local people at all. Things are built that nobody seems to want building, by-laws introduced that no-one wants and only have the effect of causing difficulites to most people and, reference my point above about party politics, which still dominates local government, even though it shouldn't.
I spent 40 years around local politics and I have to say that on the whole councillors of all political colours DO try and do there best for local people, a lot of decisions they make are taken out of their hands by central and european legislation. As for party politics in local government I have long been an advocate of indendance from party at local level, but this will never happen, its the nature of the beast
I agree, Jay, that a lot of things are taken out of councilors hands by central government and Europe, this is why we are lumbered with the chaos that is our rubbish collections (my front garden looks like a recycling centre). But why, over the years and all over the country, do we constantly have decisions being made at local level that often is in opposition to what the local population actually want? I can understand if things are being passed by central government that overule local authorities but there are still things that happen that are the result of completely local government decisions.
I would be interested to see how many decisions that are made by councilors, when the votes are cast, are made according to party lines.
I think that for local government to really work to any great degree we must totally ban party politics from it altogether. Party politics has no place in local government. I believe, as I you do Jay, that we would be much better served by independents with no politcal axe to grind. Of course I am not naive enough to think that this will ever happen but it would be good wouldn't it?
I would be interested to see how many decisions that are made by councilors, when the votes are cast, are made according to party lines.
I think that for local government to really work to any great degree we must totally ban party politics from it altogether. Party politics has no place in local government. I believe, as I you do Jay, that we would be much better served by independents with no politcal axe to grind. Of course I am not naive enough to think that this will ever happen but it would be good wouldn't it?
I'm sure 'those in the know' will disagree as they always do but national party politics actually play very little part in the policies that are made at HBC for the most part. Party viewpoints may come out in heated debates but the local Labour group is simply made up of people who are flying that flag, not slavishly adhering to national party rules which tell us how to write policies. Despite our differences, I suspect the same is largely true of the Conservative group.
Local government is a totally different beast from Westminster.
My experience was that 90% of the work carried out by local councillors has little political significance. How do you apply political dogma to the re-alignment of a bus stop, the complaints about bin collections or dealing with noisy neighbours?
Most decisions taken at committee are in accordance with national guidelines or officer advice. Again, not much political significance.
Some decisions DO reflect party policies, but these seem to be getting fewer and fewer. When was the Council Tax level last fixed according to political considerations, rather than simply cash limiting it at last years level?
The 'group' mentality at Hyndburn is certainly strong, and once a group decision is made, everybody is expected to stick to it, but again the decisions aren't generally governed by political colours.
And the strong 'group' mentality has been abused at times. How many Conservative councillors REALLY wanted to walk out of Council meetings? I bet most of them were raising their eyebrows at their Labour colleagues as they left the chamber!
The Kashmir issue has been raised as an example of local politicians acting politically, but I suspect the real story there is that they saw it as a hot potato that nobody wanted to handle, and they dealt with it as best they could to avoid upsetting too many people. Seems they failed on that one!
Councillors are local representatives first, and politicians a long way second!
Most decisions taken at committee are in accordance with national guidelines or officer advice. Again, not much political significance.
Some decisions DO reflect party policies, but these seem to be getting fewer and fewer. When was the Council Tax level last fixed according to political considerations, rather than simply cash limiting it at last years level?
The 'group' mentality at Hyndburn is certainly strong, and once a group decision is made, everybody is expected to stick to it, but again the decisions aren't generally governed by political colours.
And the strong 'group' mentality has been abused at times. How many Conservative councillors REALLY wanted to walk out of Council meetings? I bet most of them were raising their eyebrows at their Labour colleagues as they left the chamber!
The Kashmir issue has been raised as an example of local politicians acting politically, but I suspect the real story there is that they saw it as a hot potato that nobody wanted to handle, and they dealt with it as best they could to avoid upsetting too many people. Seems they failed on that one!
Councillors are local representatives first, and politicians a long way second!
That nails it fer me,very well.
Here in Morecambe a large group of Independents controlled Lancaster City Council for several years in the early 2000s. When a Morecambe Town Council was formed a few years ago they won all but one of the 26 seats. Since then they have split into at least three different groups which seem to fight each other all the time about local issues and have achieved very little for the town and its residents.