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Neil said:
We can't grow enough sunflower or whatever oil you chose for every car in the world to run on.
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Bio-fuel, is what you're talking about here. Quite some years ago the Germans decided to reduce reliance on pure diesel & started producing Bio-diesel & mixing it with traditional diesel at about 7%, there was uproar & no one would touch it, even the ADAC (RAC equivalent) condemned it as it would cause numerous problems with older vehicles the main one gumming up injectors & damaging engines.

Now we're x years down the line & Germany are pushing the green agenda, the % of bio-diesel mixed with normal diesel is now 10% & there's no way of avoiding it, the vehicles are better equipped to deal with the mixture & everything is just hunky dory in "Mutti's" little world.

Only problem is, that to produce the quantities required & demanded by the German governments "Targets", vast swathes of countryside have been turned over to growing maize & rape to be turned into bio-fuel for use within the reich. All well & good but that is then land that's not producing food for the populace so more imports are required to feed the masses & thereby raising cost ..... and so the cycle goes on.
 
That article is from 2015....and it stated that this was still in the experimental stage.
Is there any further information on what this method of obtaining hydrogen costs.
For it to be a viable proposition it needs to be economical...somehow I doubt that this is the case right now.
That is not to say that further developments in the future may not make it a viable proposition...in fact it would be good if that were the case.
 
Margaret Pilkington said:
That article is from 2015....and it stated that this was still in the experimental stage.
Is there any further information on what this method of obtaining hydrogen costs.
For it to be a viable proposition it needs to be economical...somehow I doubt that this is the case right now.
That is not to say that further developments in the future may not make it a viable proposition...in fact it would be good if that were the case.
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https://m.phys.org/news/2016-05-electricity-seawater-method-efficiently-hydrogen.html

2016, it's the future of power turning sea water into hydrogen fuel

In the future, we plan to work on developing a method for the low-cost, large-scale production of H2O2 from seawater," Fukuzumi said. "This may replace the current high-cost production of H2O2 from H2 (from mainly natural gas) and O2
 
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st06nc2 said:
https://cleantechnica.com/2015/01/02/new-machine-makes-sustainable-hydrogen-from-seawater/
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An interesting writeup on a device I had not previously come across. However lab prototypes do not always successfully scale up to be useable as industrial processes. Also I note that it makes no mention of how much energy you have to put in to make it work, the lifetime of the electrodes, the nature and quantity of any residual products, any of these could be big stumbling blocks as is often the case.
 
Neil said:
Very small scale used fat is ok but not enough for us all to use. I ran my car of new vegetable oil for a few months several years ago. It was smoother and quieter at low revs with slightly less power at motorway speeds. We can't grow enough for that to be a viable solution either.

When they smell of chips it's not a nice smell
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you cant use bio diesel in new cars but its nothing to do with the new engines its that the designers changed how the filters work so on newer cars they get clogged up with bio diesel

i think there is an additive you can get to help the problem but im not sure it works in the newer cars

or you could just buy red diesel from the dodgy bloke at the dodgy garage and hope not to get caught lol
 
Hill Walker said:
An interesting writeup on a device I had not previously come across. However lab prototypes do not always successfully scale up to be useable as industrial processes. Also I note that it makes no mention of how much energy you have to put in to make it work, the lifetime of the electrodes, the nature and quantity of any residual products, any of these could be big stumbling blocks as is often the case.
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https://m.phys.org/news/2016-05-electricity-seawater-method-efficiently-hydrogen.html

A more detailed article into it
 
Margaret Pilkington said:
I didn't think you could use sea water to produce hydrogen.
The salt breaks down into sulphuric acid and chlorine...but if you know different then I am ready to be educated.
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Looks like I should have included the phrase 'traditional electrolysis of water' in my previous post. Obviously been retired for too long and not keeping up to date. However the currently available hydrogen fuel is being manufactured in 'traditional' ways and that is silly, better to burn the natural gas directly and avoid wasting the energy needed to turn it into hydrogen.

Tucked away at the bottom of the page of one the previous references is the following link to a very interesting development. Admittedly only the first step to half of a problem but a very good first step. Needs to overcome the already noted problems and an equivalent development for the other half of the reaction but if it can be made to work and scale up could be very very good.

https://m.phys.org/news/2016-02-scientists-efficiency-water-splitting-half-reaction.html
 
accyman said:
you cant use bio diesel in new cars but its nothing to do with the new engines its that the designers changed how the filters work so on newer cars they get clogged up with bio diesel

i think there is an additive you can get to help the problem but im not sure it works in the newer cars

a lot of problems have occured over the last few years with the use of diesel. a few years due to the introduction of ago BMW diesel cars had a big problem with their fuel pumps having failures due to a lot of additives being taken out of the fuel to make it what they call cleaner. advised owners to put an additive in when re fueling. i always do this using a millers product.{other ones are available**. does what it says on the can. not many diesels even older ones can be run with success on old chip oil without damage. know some who have but not for a long time.
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DaveinGermany said:
Bio-fuel, is what you're talking about here. Quite some years ago the Germans decided to reduce reliance on pure diesel & started producing Bio-diesel & mixing it with traditional diesel at about 7%, there was uproar & no one would touch it, even the ADAC (RAC equivalent) condemned it as it would cause numerous problems with older vehicles the main one gumming up injectors & damaging engines.......
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I've used bio diesel as well from a local producer but I ran a Xantia of almost pure veg oil with a little diesel to thin it down a bit. The problem is the viscosity at lower temperatures so it was a summer experiment only. You can run straight veg oil all the time but you need to heat it to thin it which is a faff and I didn't want to take it that for by adding heat exchangers etc.

One problem with bio in older cars is that it can cause problems with seal used, newer diesels use different materials not affected by the bio diesel.

Some bio diesel isn't as green as people think, most is a methyl ester made using methanol which comes from the petrochemical industry. An ethyl ester made from ethanol is greener as long as you make your ethanol by fermentation and not petrochem
 
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As usual the vagaries of AW led us off on a tangent about alternative fuels & power sources, possibly worth a thread of its own. Still as the bold Cashy pointed out we're off topic .... so, to bring things back round again.

It seems the whiners & ne'er do wells (Corpy-bin, the Wee ginger Tom & jumped up Jones) are after kissing eu arse by presenting their individual cases ref Brexit but "Big bad Barnier" has fobbed them off or so he says, who knows what the truth is, time will tell no doubt.

Brexit news - Michel Barnier gives update on progress of negotiations with EU | Politics | News | Express.co.uk
 
DaveinGermany said:
As usual the vagaries of AW led us off on a tangent about alternative fuels & power sources, possibly worth a thread of its own. Still as the bold Cashy pointed out we're off topic .... so, to bring things back round again.

It seems the whiners & ne'er do wells (Corpy-bin, the Wee ginger Tom & jumped up Jones) are after kissing eu arse by presenting their individual cases ref Brexit but "Big bad Barnier" has fobbed them off or so he says, who knows what the truth is, time will tell no doubt.

Brexit news - Michel Barnier gives update on progress of negotiations with EU | Politics | News | Express.co.uk
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From what I have seen today he needs to take Whistling Lessons.
 
accyman said:
he can take that racist Abbot with him as well

she hates white people with a passion its staggering how it has become racist to point out she is an out right racist
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Must be part of the job application specifics (along with being ignorant) for a labour politico, as marvellously demonstrated by Wolverhampton South Wests latest labour darling!

Labour MP: England's Black Country Flag Is 'Racist', Should Be Replaced with 'Multicultural Rainbow'

And all this in Enochs old stamping ground, my how the times have changed.
 
It worries this MP because she is a black person( I thought we had changed this to a 'person of colour')...How very sad that this is something that she has at the forefront of her worries.
I can assure her that we have a lot of things in this country to be worried about...and that flag is definitely NOT one of them.

cynical baggage that I am...I think this is more about raising her profile than any issues to do with a flag.
 
Margaret Pilkington said:
It worries this MP because she is a black person( I thought we had changed this to a 'person of colour')...How very sad that this is something that she has at the forefront of her worries.
I can assure her that we have a lot of things in this country to be worried about...and that flag is definitely NOT one of them.

cynical baggage that I am...I think this is more about raising her profile than any issues to do with a flag.
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Yes indeed how typical, our blacks greys, greens and browns, what we call mixed race and plenty of others, put up with far more than the style of a flag.

WE are people of many races, we understand that we are all different but exist in our communities as best we can, this complaining misery isn't helping, she is dividing our communities by complaining about something that really doesn't matter.
 
Less said:
Yes indeed how typical, our blacks greys, greens and browns, what we call mixed race and plenty of others, put up with far more than the style of a flag.

WE are people of many races, we understand that we are all different but exist in our communities as best we can, this complaining misery isn't helping, she is dividing our communities by complaining about something that really doesn't matter.
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People actually voted to make her home secretary
 
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