Hang 'em High ...

[Eric]

Has the execution of Troy Davis, and the controversy surrounding the evidence in his case led anyone of the hang 'em, fry 'em group on here to reconsider their attitudes to capital punishment? Or are accy advocates of this barbarism content to say something like: "Well, what can you expect from the semi-literate, red-neck inbreds south of the Mason-Dixon Line. Here in Britain we would never hang an innocent man"

Oh, and on the reconsidering of attitudes bit ... I ain't holding my breath.

 

[walkinman221]

Has the execution of Troy Davis, and the controversy surrounding the evidence in his case led anyone of the hang 'em, fry 'em group on here to reconsider their attitudes to capital punishment? Or are accy advocates of this barbarism content to say something like: "Well, what can you expect from the semi-literate, red-neck inbreds south of the Mason-Dixon Line. Here in Britain we would never hang an innocent man"

Oh, and on the reconsidering of attitudes bit ... I ain't holding my breath.

Good we wouldnt want you going blue or keeling over eric Having a said that we have gone to the polar opposite of this. In the paper today i read that a paedophile went to court because he couldnt walk in public parks where CHILDREN play, he claimed it breached his human rights and he won the case

 

[jaysay]

I have no problem with not having the death penalty in this country if the punishment fit the crime but it doesn't, when a murderer is given life thats should be that, but it isn't in 99% of cases, some are back on the streets within 10 years. I would have no problem hanging the likes of Huntley, Brady, Sutcliffe and the like, instead of it costing millions of pounds to keep them in jail indefinitely, if they were given hard labour with meals to suite fine but they are treated with kid gloves and like I said on a recent thread the warders have to call them Mr

 

[Boeing Guy]

I don't know much about this case, but when he was originally convicted the jury took two hours to find him guilty, seven of the members were black.
If he was innocent, then this is terrible.

 

[garinda]

Although I think our criminal justice system is much too lenient, I am against the death penalty.

There were, are, and would undoubtedly be miscarriages of justice, and no amount of compensation will result in bringing back from the dead an innocent man or woman.

I remember when I first joined Accy Web there was a thread and poll about the death penalty, and I was in a minority in not wanting it reintroduced.

Despite being one of the few who argued against it, I didn't feel as if I was under attack. It was just differing points of view.

With all the recent brouhaha about new members being treated with kid gloves, it didn't put me off posting in other threads.

As then, for the reasons I mentioned above, I would still fight the reintroduction of capital punishment in this country.

 

[garinda]

For anyone not familar with who Eric referred to in the opening post of this thread, this link gives some of the details surrounding this case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troy_Davis_case

 

[Eric]

I don't know much about this case, but when he was originally convicted the jury took two hours to find him guilty, seven of the members were black.
If he was innocent, then this is terrible.

You can find some good articles on this case in all the international media. To say the case against Davis was flawed is extreme understatement. Or, briefly, the case sucked. If there is any bright side to a probably innocent man being murdered by the State of Georgia, it is that Americans are going to be forced to take a good hard look at capital punishment. We have our miscarriages of justice in Canada too.
David Milgaard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I particularly remember this one as I was living in Saskatoon at the time of the murder. Reading the news, and watching it on tv most folks had him guilty. He was a bad kid, into drugs and petty crime; but he was not a murderer.

I can't imagine what someone must go through sitting in the chair, or standing on the gallows, or waiting for the lethal injection knowing that one is innocent. I remember reading a sci-fi story called "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream". The author, Harlan Ellison I think, considered this the most horrible of fates. Standing, innocent, with a rope around one's neck, waiting for the big drop, must rank right up there with this.

 

[Eric]

For anyone not familar with who Eric referred to in the opening post of this thread, this link gives some of the details surrounding this case.

Troy Davis case - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Oh ... thanx .... I just assumed everyone was aware of it .... you know, AccyWebbers being a super well-informed bunch of folks And on your other point, the one in the preceding post: I've taken flak for opposing capital punishment too. Ain't stopped me posting either. I can't think of one good, solid argument for capital punishment Starting with: "Capital pusnisment is a deterrent", they are all BS.

 

[garinda]

Oh ... thanx .... I just assumed everyone was aware of it .... you know, AccyWebbers being a super well-informed bunch of folks And on your other point, the one in the preceding post: I've taken flak for opposing capital punishment too. Ain't stopped me posting either. I can't think of one good, solid argument for capital punishment Starting with: "Capital pusnisment is a deterrent", they are all BS.

You'll notice the post with the link I gave is edited.

I inadvertently posted the wrong link, after searching for a site that reported the case fairly.

I idiotically posted a link to the Daily Mail, who argued Troy Davis was a reason why we should have capital punishment.

The Daily Mail surmised that 'Capital punishment is punishment for grown up societies -- not cowering in the face of the mass injustice of murder.'

I won't link the story.
​

I find it too shaming.

 

[garinda]

Oh ... thanx .... I just assumed everyone was aware of it .... you know, AccyWebbers being a super well-informed bunch of folks And on your other point, the one in the preceding post: I've taken flak for opposing capital punishment too. Ain't stopped me posting either. I can't think of one good, solid argument for capital punishment Starting with: "Capital pusnisment is a deterrent", they are all BS.

Agreed. If capital punishment was such a successful deterrent in those American states where it's enforced, then surely there'd be no murders there at all.

 

[DaveinGermany]

Sorry to disagree with some folk, but I do think there are cases when Capital punishment should be used. If there is sufficient, valid, clear cut evidence to confirm a case, yes administer the death penalty. However should there be some areas of contention & insufficient clear cut evidence, a lesser sentence should be administered.

Eric, as to your point about the comment "Capital punishment is a deterrent" I think such a statement can be a bit ambiguous, what is certain though is that those served with a death sentence will never re-offend.

 

[garinda]

I've been chairman of a jury on a criminal trial.

Grevious Bodily Harm in this case, not murder.

After listening to two week's worth of evidence, I did have more than 'reasonable doubt' in my mind as to the person's guilt.

I had to stand there, and deliver a verdict carried by a majority of eleven to twelve, that the person was guilty. I thought they were innocent.

Many of my fellow jurors openly admitted to not 'liking' the accused, and whilst deliberating many expressed prejudice against the person on trial, for reasons totally unconnected to the case.

The whole thing was an eye-opener, and made me sick to my stomach to have to stand there and deliver a verdict I know in my heart was wrong.

I could not, would not have, if it had been a murder trial, and we still had capital punishment.

 

[Eric]

Sorry to disagree with some folk, but I do think there are cases when Capital punishment should be used. If there is sufficient, valid, clear cut evidence to confirm a case, yes administer the death penalty. However should there be some areas of contention & insufficient clear cut evidence, a lesser sentence should be administered.

Eric, as to your point about the comment "Capital punishment is a deterrent" I think such a statement can be a bit ambiguous, what is certain though is that those served with a death sentence will never re-offend.

Here's one for you.

Guy Paul Morin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

... there was "sufficient, valid, clear cut evidence" to convict this guy, or else he wouldn't have been convicted in a Canadian court ... remember, we are the folks who will not even extradite anyone who would face the death penalty if returned to his own country. Problem is, he was innocent. Bad enough he served his time in general population. In Georgia, and especially in Rick Perry's Texas, he would have been dead.

Just an aside: does anyone else see the irony in supporting the death penalty and, at the same time, opposing a woman's right to have access to a safe abortion? American Republicans, and probably quite a few UK tories, seem to have no problems with this contradiction.

 

[Michael1954]

I have never forgotten the case of Stefan Ivan Kiszko, who served 16 years imprisonment for the murder of Lesley Molseed until he was found to be innocent. Had there been capital punishment he would have been hanged.

 

[garinda]

I have never forgotten the case of Stefan Ivan Kiszko, who served 16 years imprisonment for the murder of Lesley Molseed until he was found to be innocent. Had there been capital punishment he would have been hanged.

That was very sad.

He died not long after he was released.

Even with advances in D.N.A. etc, the verdict is decided by people.

People make mistakes.

It's human nature.

 

[mobertol]

People make mistakes.

It's human nature.

Here, here. That includes those who commit crimes - non of us are perfect and I for one would never throw the first stone.
You don't right one wrong by repeating the same action. A civilised society should not follow the "Eye for an eye" philosophy -there are people who have talked in various threads against the application af Shariah Law in certain countries -I wonder if they are the same ones who then call for the return of Capital Punishment. God forbid!

 

[DaveinGermany]

Having read the article Guy Paul Morin, this happened back in 1984 & it was developments especially in DNA that secured his release & acquittal in 1995. So from that viewpoint we are now in 2011 DNA matching along with other bettered forensic techniques & video evidence are pretty effective in ascertaining guilt/non guilt that we can agree on.

So with this in mind a fairly strong case can be presented allowing for a cast iron decision for or against. Should the crime involve a pre meditated murder or someone armed having every intention of using a weapon in their illegal activities these are the kind of people the "Hanging verdict" should be applied to.

"The Death sentence is not a deterrent" I beg to differ, Singapore as an example, the Death sentence is on the statutes & is used effectively within a short period of time so reinforcing the, severity of punishment in relation to the crime so people think twice. The States on the other hand drag the whole legal process out over years & years so reducing the "Shock & awe" swift retribution effect so isn't readily seen as a deterrent.

Had A hanging verdict been available in UK & the will to use it perhaps some of the following incidents wouldn't have happened :-

Police killer caught on London jaunts - Telegraph

Police hunt missing killer as woman's body is discovered | UK news | The Guardian

BBC News | UK | Freed killer murders again

 

[Stumped]

Good we wouldnt want you going blue or keeling over eric Having a said that we have gone to the polar opposite of this. In the paper today i read that a paedophile went to court because he couldnt walk in public parks where CHILDREN play, he claimed it breached his human rights and he won the case

Were I in the park with my grandchildren and this pervert came anywhere near, it would be the last WALK it ever took in it's current state of health. Though the judgement probably says more about the judge than the paedophile.

 

[jaysay]

Were I in the park with my grandchildren and this pervert came anywhere near, it would be the last WALK it ever took in it's current state of health.

Ya think that's about right Stumped, since when have deviants like that have human rights in the first place, to have rights you need to be human in the first place, these people are worse than animals

 

[Eric]

Having read the article Guy Paul Morin, this happened back in 1984 & it was developments especially in DNA that secured his release & acquittal in 1995. So from that viewpoint we are now in 2011 DNA matching along with other bettered forensic techniques & video evidence are pretty effective in ascertaining guilt/non guilt that we can agree on.

So with this in mind a fairly strong case can be presented allowing for a cast iron decision for or against. Should the crime involve a pre meditated murder or someone armed having every intention of using a weapon in their illegal activities these are the kind of people the "Hanging verdict" should be applied to.

"The Death sentence is not a deterrent" I beg to differ, Singapore as an example, the Death sentence is on the statutes & is used effectively within a short period of time so reinforcing the, severity of punishment in relation to the crime so people think twice. The States on the other hand drag the whole legal process out over years & years so reducing the "Shock & awe" swift retribution effect so isn't readily seen as a deterrent.

Had A hanging verdict been available in UK & the will to use it perhaps some of the following incidents wouldn't have happened :-

Police killer caught on London jaunts - Telegraph

Police hunt missing killer as woman's body is discovered | UK news | The Guardian

BBC News | UK | Freed killer murders again

Take a look at the big picture:

Murders drop to lowest level for 20 years in England and Wales | UK news | The Guardian

Oh, and in 2010 in the good old US of A, where the death penalty is used as a deterrent, there were 14,748 murders. If the deterrent is working in the States, how many of each other would the bloodthirsty bastards kill if there were no death penalty.