Hospitals
- Thread starter SPUGGIE J
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WillowTheWhisp said:Speaking from a patient's viewpoint when I was really ill in hospital the last thing I wanted was a constant stream of visitors. I just wanted a bit of peace and quiet. That was more or less impossible because if I didn't have visitors myself there were plenty more spilling over from other beds! Did the parents try to keep their children in check? What do you think?!
The kids ran riot and you were pulling your hair out and looking foer ear defenders.
The LET have always jumped on every hospital story.......they frequently misquote and misrepresent.....or tell the story in such a way as to reflect badly on the hospital staff.
They are a bit like those ambulance chasing lawyers in that respect......rather than report about the good things that are happening they report the deficiencies in a sensationalistic way. Don't get me wrong, I do think that if there ARe deficiencies then they should be reported, but in a mature and balanced manner, noting what attempts are being made to redress the situation. Fat chance with the LET!
They are a bit like those ambulance chasing lawyers in that respect......rather than report about the good things that are happening they report the deficiencies in a sensationalistic way. Don't get me wrong, I do think that if there ARe deficiencies then they should be reported, but in a mature and balanced manner, noting what attempts are being made to redress the situation. Fat chance with the LET!
While that is true, it causes panic in folk who are due to be admitted......and that can't be good.
I worked within the NHS for almost 29years......the skin on my hands is wrecked from the handwashing, the use of latex gloves and strong detergents......but I wouldn't have it any other way.
The other thing that works in favour of MRSA is the bigger turnover of patients......this has again been driven by political targets. I know some days on the ward that I worked on we could have as many as 3 different patients in one bed over a 24 hour period....not all at the same time you understand. that is three lots of visitors for each patient too.
Patients also move around the hospital much more......they stand at the hospital doors smoking.....drips and sometimes surgical drains on show for all to see..... they might just as well get on a bus and have a ride around town. They go into the dining room where they sit down in a seat that may just have been vacated by one of the building workers in their working clothes.......and if you try to explain to them that this is not a good practice from the control of infection viewpoint, you get a mouthful of effing and jeffing...... no-one seems to respect the fact that the nurses don't get a big thrill out of telling patients what they should not do when it is for their own good. There need to be some radical changes to how patients AND visitors conduct themselves. I am sure that Lettie will corroborate a lot of what I have said in these posts......she is still on the sharp end!
I worked within the NHS for almost 29years......the skin on my hands is wrecked from the handwashing, the use of latex gloves and strong detergents......but I wouldn't have it any other way.
The other thing that works in favour of MRSA is the bigger turnover of patients......this has again been driven by political targets. I know some days on the ward that I worked on we could have as many as 3 different patients in one bed over a 24 hour period....not all at the same time you understand. that is three lots of visitors for each patient too.
Patients also move around the hospital much more......they stand at the hospital doors smoking.....drips and sometimes surgical drains on show for all to see..... they might just as well get on a bus and have a ride around town. They go into the dining room where they sit down in a seat that may just have been vacated by one of the building workers in their working clothes.......and if you try to explain to them that this is not a good practice from the control of infection viewpoint, you get a mouthful of effing and jeffing...... no-one seems to respect the fact that the nurses don't get a big thrill out of telling patients what they should not do when it is for their own good. There need to be some radical changes to how patients AND visitors conduct themselves. I am sure that Lettie will corroborate a lot of what I have said in these posts......she is still on the sharp end!
I wholeheartedly agree with Margaret although I don't say that I'm on the sharp end (what I do say still begins with 'sh' though) 
We have had the MRSA discussion on here before and it is due to a combination of factors.
Private cleaning services, too few cleaners for too many clinical areas.
Not screening patients before planned operations (although that wouldn't be possible for emergencies)
The vast amount of visitors and general disrespect of the building (spitting and peeing in the lifts etc.) Yes......They do this!!!!!
Poor handwashing practices..... Doctors have been shown to be the worst culprits. It seems the higher up you get, the more naturally sterile you become Sparks can vouch that my hands are a real mess from the constant handwashing, this is a problem which will never be cured as long as I still work there, and they are damn sore.
Lastly meeting targets and provision of new services takes staff away from clinical areas. We are treating more patients than ever, yet, beds have been cut, staff numbers are low in all areas (especially acute areas). If you are constantly rushed off you feet with emergencies, routine stuff, policing visitors, paperwork and telephone enquiries, how on Earth can you manage to do the cleaning up as well. On a 22 bedded maternity ward, there may only be 2 midwives working on one shift, with no support staff. That is looking after 22 mums and 22 babies. There are not enough hours in the day.
We have had the MRSA discussion on here before and it is due to a combination of factors. Private cleaning services, too few cleaners for too many clinical areas.
Not screening patients before planned operations (although that wouldn't be possible for emergencies)
The vast amount of visitors and general disrespect of the building (spitting and peeing in the lifts etc.) Yes......They do this!!!!!
Poor handwashing practices..... Doctors have been shown to be the worst culprits. It seems the higher up you get, the more naturally sterile you become
Sparks can vouch that my hands are a real mess from the constant handwashing, this is a problem which will never be cured as long as I still work there, and they are damn sore.Lastly meeting targets and provision of new services takes staff away from clinical areas. We are treating more patients than ever, yet, beds have been cut, staff numbers are low in all areas (especially acute areas). If you are constantly rushed off you feet with emergencies, routine stuff, policing visitors, paperwork and telephone enquiries, how on Earth can you manage to do the cleaning up as well. On a 22 bedded maternity ward, there may only be 2 midwives working on one shift, with no support staff. That is looking after 22 mums and 22 babies. There are not enough hours in the day.
Im not old enough to remember, but I have heard talk of Matrons in charge of wards, those of you that do remember what was the differance between a matron and a sister?, and would the re-introduction of these Matrons help? also why cant they just toughen up the rules,1 hour a day visiting in normal wards, anyone seriously ill or dying could have different rules, but somebody in for a "routine op", 1 hour a day, I know I would be glad of the peace and quiet, introduce wi-fi to the wards and even better, online visit via webcam lol
The management structure when Matrons were in charge was VASTLY different......the Government have brought in what they call 'Modern Matrons'......this is just a bit of window dressing because the general population think that hospitals were run better when Matrons were in place.......so the government decreed that Matrons should return, but in truth they have very little in the way of real power.
Everything Lettie says is true...... and a lot of the fault lies with political tinkering that doesn't address the real problems.......changes in the Education system of training Nurses.......there used to be droves of students on the wards......and believe me a lot of the work those students did was cleaning....... and you did it with a good heart and you did it well because the next patient to use whatever it was you were cleaning could be one of your own family. Students are educated in Universities now and do not want to know about the menial tasks....... they might be menial but they are important.
I can recall being a student and we were never anything other than busy......if not with patients then we were allocated a tin of Chemico and sent to the sluice to clean and shine the stainless steel bedpans.....and sputum pots......OK today those are made of paper and are much more hygienic.....but what I'm getting at is that the problems within the NHS are down to lack of manpower where the patients are.......to few people with too much to do......too much paperwork and red tape.......too many targets set by people who don't know what they are talking about........all the high powered managers in the world will not improve the situation...........and these are the folk who are getting the chunky paypackets......not the nurses. And this all brought about by political spin.
Everything Lettie says is true...... and a lot of the fault lies with political tinkering that doesn't address the real problems.......changes in the Education system of training Nurses.......there used to be droves of students on the wards......and believe me a lot of the work those students did was cleaning....... and you did it with a good heart and you did it well because the next patient to use whatever it was you were cleaning could be one of your own family. Students are educated in Universities now and do not want to know about the menial tasks....... they might be menial but they are important.
I can recall being a student and we were never anything other than busy......if not with patients then we were allocated a tin of Chemico and sent to the sluice to clean and shine the stainless steel bedpans.....and sputum pots......OK today those are made of paper and are much more hygienic.....but what I'm getting at is that the problems within the NHS are down to lack of manpower where the patients are.......to few people with too much to do......too much paperwork and red tape.......too many targets set by people who don't know what they are talking about........all the high powered managers in the world will not improve the situation...........and these are the folk who are getting the chunky paypackets......not the nurses. And this all brought about by political spin.
Margaret Pilkington said:The management structure when Matrons were in charge was VASTLY different......the Government have brought in what they call 'Modern Matrons'......this is just a bit of window dressing because the general population think that hospitals were run better when Matrons were in place.......QUOTE]
but did they make a differance that was my question as I said I am to young to have an opinion and you obviously know what your on about, so in your opinion did matrons make the differance?
I am also too young to remember Matron. She had already been replaced by managers when I started in 1987. Matron used to run the practical side of the hospital. She would do inspections on the wards and was in charge of most things including things like laundry and cleaning. The ward sister ran her own ward and was answerable to matron. If matron thought that a ward was dirty, she would shut it down, give everybody a kick in the pants and get it cleaned up.
Modern matrons have nowhere near that kind of power, they are nurse managers retitled to include the word matron in order to try and reassure the public. Their main job these days is to juggle with the staff numbers to try and staff the shifts on the wards. Some of them do get involved with the patient care but that is because they sometimes have no choice. There are too few staff on shifts to adequately do all of the jobs, so they sometimes have to muck in. They try to work to their targets, ie, how much money can we save this year??? They listen to the staff complaining and take their grievences higher, but never get anywhere.
I would not have a modern matron job for all the tea in China. It's not worth the flack. When you've trained as a nurse or midwife, gained experience and risen through the ranks, to be constantly moaned at by your colleagues, it must be a hell of a job. Believe me the staff moans are justified. If any one of you found yourself doing an 11 hour night shift and had no tea break because it was too busy and there was nobody there to cover you, would you not moan?
These working conditions are a daily occurrence within the NHS. Nursing staff are tired and demoralised so therefore there are high levels of sickness amongst staff, which adds to the problem.
Modern matrons have nowhere near that kind of power, they are nurse managers retitled to include the word matron in order to try and reassure the public. Their main job these days is to juggle with the staff numbers to try and staff the shifts on the wards. Some of them do get involved with the patient care but that is because they sometimes have no choice. There are too few staff on shifts to adequately do all of the jobs, so they sometimes have to muck in. They try to work to their targets, ie, how much money can we save this year??? They listen to the staff complaining and take their grievences higher, but never get anywhere.
I would not have a modern matron job for all the tea in China. It's not worth the flack. When you've trained as a nurse or midwife, gained experience and risen through the ranks, to be constantly moaned at by your colleagues, it must be a hell of a job. Believe me the staff moans are justified. If any one of you found yourself doing an 11 hour night shift and had no tea break because it was too busy and there was nobody there to cover you, would you not moan?
These working conditions are a daily occurrence within the NHS. Nursing staff are tired and demoralised so therefore there are high levels of sickness amongst staff, which adds to the problem.
There is too much red tape and rules that have no benifit for the patient especially if staff are running round after a set of targets. Govenment seems determined to bury everyone under paperwork and then has the gaul to moan because targets arent met. Yet these people are the problem so if the Hattie Jakeus matron returns lets send a few to parliment to orginise them.
Thanks Lettie, very eloquently put.
Oh, and by the way......I don't remember Matrons either, but I did work with nurses who did and the tales they told would make your hair curl......there was one Matron at Queens Park who used to be accompanied on her rounds by a little white highland terrier called JOCK.......cross my heart!
Oh, and by the way......I don't remember Matrons either, but I did work with nurses who did and the tales they told would make your hair curl......there was one Matron at Queens Park who used to be accompanied on her rounds by a little white highland terrier called JOCK.......cross my heart!