I almost daren't post this...

Doug said:
But correct me if I’m wrong Gayle in that not all funding comes from Mid Pennine and many interest parties will be able to continue to apply for funding from other sources.
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No, but for every £1 that HBC paid for their subscription to MPA they got over £5 back. Yes, other people would be able to apply for funding but no one else would give that sort of return. Plus, if you get rid of the Arts team that are currently employed by HBC, who is going to be applying for that extra money. The Arts Council will see that there is a distinct lack of investment in the arts in the area and they will not keen to put money in if they can't see any signs of self help.


Doug said:
On the subject of a Panopticon. I don’t believe that having an object stuck on the coppice is essential to attract funding into Hyndburn.
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Possibly not, possibly yes - in Rossendale it attracted a further £300k for the wider regeneration work at Top o'slate. In Blackburn it's part of a £1m revamp of Corporation park.

Doug said:
HBC have also shown a distinct disinterest in the history and heritage of the town and what it represents to us all. If one of these Panopticon’s had been built in Hyndburn there’s little doubt that it would have suffered from the same disinterest from council and that at some point removed.
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Well, actually I haven't got an argument on this one under the present regime. They're too busy selling everything off and handing out redundancy notices that there won't be much to manage soon.

Doug said:
Accrington doesn’t need props Gayle,
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I never saw it as a prop - just a signal to the rest of the country that we are open to new ideas, new change.

Doug said:
it needs leadership and direction. This is not a personal attack, it’s an opinion. We need to be investing in people and in providing services that promote creativity and individualism and above all else Pride.
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Yep, totally, totally agree with you. I know it's not a personal attack and I have the same opinion. Why do you think I'm doing what I'm doing at the moment?
 
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Acrylic-bob said:
Oh, Seventy Thousand. I stand corrected. That is even worse! Where is this extra funding being spent Gayle? Who gets it? Whose pocket will it end up in?

I do agree however with your comments about an Arts Crisis in Hyndburn.
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Price of steel - v. expensive and getting more expensive by the minute
Builders
Scaffolding
Diggers needed on site
Building up the dry stone wall around it
Sorting out the paths to redirect them
Insurance
etc

A lot of local people will be earning money out of this to get the work done.

The artist's fee is fixed whether it's five foot high or thirty five foot high.
 
If the youth projects go thats more kids on the streets with nothing to do, who could in theory turn into vandals/graffiti artists which in turn would cost HBC more money long term.
My 7 year old loves doing drama and isn't bad at it but at £66 for 12 hours of lessons it's way out of my budget. It's a crying shame that there isn't the money for kids projects to give them new experiences unless your rich
 
Gayle said:
Plus, if you get rid of the Arts team that are currently employed by HBC
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Blimey, I didn't know we had any!

How many of them are there?

What on earth do they do, and how much do they cost us?
 
There's four of them. One specifically does Festivals (Wizard of Ossy, 'arrods summer sizzler, etc), one specifically does youth stuff, projects including drama and dance etc. Others pick up other projects, do education projects and stuff etc.
 
Gayle said:
There's four of them. One specifically does Festivals (Wizard of Ossy, 'arrods summer sizzler, etc), one specifically does youth stuff, projects including drama and dance etc. Others pick up other projects, do education projects and stuff etc.
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Ok, thanks. I think the fact that I didn't know of their existance speaks voumes about the arts in Hyndburn.

I've posted before how I thought the arts scene was much more lively and challenging, the last time I lived here back in the early eighties.

Does anyone know how much these four cost?

I thought the Wizard of Ossy project was put on by an individual, because he was in the press moaning that the Rotary Club weren't giving him any help?
 
I have a bee in my bonnet now about the cost of HBC's four arts development officers.

I've searched and searched, and found scant information on any site as to salaries, or costs to us.

I am genuienly shocked to find we have four of them.
 
garinda said:
I have a bee in my bonnet now about the cost of HBC's four arts development officers.

I've searched and searched, and found scant information on any site as to salaries, or costs to us.

I am genuienly shocked to find we have four of them.
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The costs to you are insignificant, the cost to the greater public is marginal and the cost to business is significant.

What difference does it make if they’re going?

If you want to contribute to the local Arts scene would suggest an advisory position or that of a fund raiser, you have a wealth of experience in costume design and the like, loads for you to contribute rather than frustrate yourself over the cost of running the local council……:)

I’ve not heard anything about the moves on Pets Corner? Is this not a news worthy item? :)
 
Doug said:
The costs to you are insignificant, the cost to the greater public is marginal and the cost to business is significant.

What difference does it make if they’re going?

If you want to contribute to the local Arts scene would suggest an advisory position or that of a fund raiser, you have a wealth of experience in costume design and the like, loads for you to contribute rather than frustrate yourself over the cost of running the local council……:)

I’ve not heard anything about the moves on Pets Corner? Is this not a news worthy item? :)
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The cost to 'us' is significant, especially as in my opinion the arts are worse in Hyndburn than they were twenty years ago.

The fact that we have four salaried art development officers in Hyndburn is noteworthy.

The only information I could find relating to their work was concerned with once yealy festivals, and the hiring out of public halls. Though I'm sure they must do a lot more for their money, which I presume will be somewhere near seventy thousands pounds of our money. Perhaps someone can tell us of any dealings they've had with them?

Will such a resultant and vibrant arts scene in Hyndburn, perhaps we'll be up for European Town of Culture.
 
garinda said:
Will such a resultant and vibrant arts scene in Hyndburn, perhaps we'll be up for European Town of Culture.
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We would undoubtedly win major international awards for whingeing, wining and associated belly aching. Not to mention inertia.
 
Doug said:
We would undoubtedly win major international awards for whingeing, wining and associated belly aching. Not to mention inertia.
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I would love to know who is doing the above. As for me, I'm open minded and carry no ideological baggage. I am only interested in what works and what does not and thus is a waste of time and money. Personally, I stick to impartial, objective criticism and now't else. But who else can say the same?
 
There are a few issues at hand here - we could use the analogy 'if a tree fell in the forest with no one around, does it make a sound?' The thing about the Arts Development team and their projects is that you Garinda possibly wouldn't come into contact with them, although you could if you wanted to but -

Are you a young teenager who is interested in acting at the new Hyndburn Youth Theatre that they are developing and trying to get built?
Are you someone who is interested in setting up your own business in an Arts related arena?
Do you need to help in filling in an Arts Council application form on knowledge about other start up grants and funds?
Are you someone who would like to learn how to DJ, play drums, dance, act etc and would benefit from professional guidance?

The answer is probably no. So the Arts development team probably wouldn't come on to your radar but that doesn't mean that they are not out there working with a great number of people who will miss them if they go.

One fault that the Arts Dev team have is that they are not particularly good at making front page news, in fact, like most artists and people working behind the scenes in the arts they shy away from taking centre stage. They don't publicise what they do they just get on and do it. This is a fault and if they had made more of a splash perhaps more people who weren't actually involved would take more notice. The fact is that people who are involved are very annoyed and upset that this is going.

They are working with communities that want to work with them. They are organising events, activities, and creative endeavours for a great number of people on a daily and weekly basis.

Another issue is that the council hasn't given the team time to bed in, most of them were only in posts that were funded for a year or 18 months. So they've just got started, they arranged a lot of events last year but now the rug is being pulled from under them before they get to build on the work they've done so far.

Finally, you are also possibly confusing the Arts Development role with the person who books acts for the local theatre. It is not Arts Development team who book professional acts to come to our town.

It is a great loss to the town and like I've said before, it's not going to matter very much who's managing the town after May because the current regime are selling so much of it off that there will be nothing left to manage.
 
Tealeaf said:
Personally, I stick to impartial, objective criticism and now't else. But who else can say the same?
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Fortunately, not me! I get passionate about things, I care about things and I don't want to turn into some cynical robot who attacks first and asks questions later. I love that it matters to me and I don't want to change because this world needs people who are passionate enough and incensed enough to make a difference. It's all very well to sit in your rooms typing into a computer that things are rubbish, things aren't going well but what are you actually doing to make things right?
 
Thanks Gayle. This isn't a dig at you but.....

as someone with a keen interest in the arts, as a patron, here in Hyndburn until the early 80's, and then as someone who was involved with the arts scene in London and Glasgow, I am still suprised that we have four people employed by HBC working or promoting the arts in Hyndburn, when the vast majority of people, myself included, didn't even know of their existance.

Hardly reaching all the community is it? I think they should perhaps work on their publicity a little more.
 
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