I'd do anything
- Thread starter Lilly
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It's new to me alsoAm trying really, really hard Benipete to understand that last remark ..
Why ? ........so I suppose the idea of having a hook nosed Jew playing Jesus would also be out of the question
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I quite agree. No mention is made as to Nancy's ethnicity in Dicken's book, and the east end of London, being one of the busiest ports in the world, was a real melting pot of people from all over the world.
According to this site, by the end of the 1860's there was a black population in London of between 5-10,000 people, most of whom I suspect because of economics were living in the east end, rather than the more rarefied west of London.
Black Communities of Eighteenth-Century London
Nancy, you could be black....except the last black girl left isn't very good.
wanted a bit more oomph.
S&M and sea food how much was that? I need to get out moreThe prostitutes cost a fortune..... and either beat u or gave u crabs
I quite agree. No mention is made as to Nancy's ethnicity in Dicken's book, and the east end of London, being one of the busiest ports in the world, was a real melting pot of people from all over the world.
Nancy, you could be black....except the last black girl left isn't very good.
I know all this Garinda, thought someone of intellectual ability may come back and argue the point. Just would not be the same for me, that's all .. Oliver is one of my favourite musicals and would be distracted from what I consider a mis-casting.
This is how Dickens described her and Rose, didn't say what type of colour her face was, but sure he did not mean black:-
"They wore a good deal of hair, not very neatly turned up behind, and were rather untidy about the shoes and stockings. They were not exactly pretty, perhaps; but they had a great deal of colour in their faces, and looked quite stout and healthy. Being remarkably free and easy with their manners, Oliver thought them to be very nice girls indeed. Which there is no doubt they were. [Oliver Twist, p.62]"
Steeljack: Don't think out of the question at all that Jesus could be portrayed by a dark skinned, hook-nosed jew .. that's what he was.
Can black people not have colour in their faces? Surely they're faces go red too when they blush, cold etc...
Of course Blazey, but pretty sure Dickens did not mean this ... rosy and ruddy complexions was considered a sign of health then. He describes people of black origin as brown usually. Pretty sure if he saw Nancy as black, there would have been no doubt in his description of her.
Just my preference the way I see Nancy, that's all. Think would be taking stage licence a little too far. Just like I would not wish a tall blond Aryan playing Fagin...
Of course Blazey, but pretty sure Dickens did not mean this ... rosy and ruddy complexions was considered a sign of health then. He describes people of black origin as brown usually. Pretty sure if he saw Nancy as black, there would have been no doubt in his description of her.
Just my preference the way I see Nancy, that's all. Think would be taking stage licence a little too far. Just like I would not wish a tall blond Aryan playing Fagin...
My mum and I said a similar thing tonight. I said Oliver should have blonde hair and blue eyes in my opinion, but I can't say it or I'll probably be branded a nazi. I can't say I have read Oliver because I don't actually think much of the story.
'she was not the first choice for Nancy. Director Sir Carol Reed had wanted Shirley Bassey for the role, but Hollywood studio bosses felt the world – and particularly the still racially divided American South – was not ready for a black Nancy.'
I'd do anything to be a judge on I'd Do Anything ... but all they offered me was a one-minute slot, says the original Nancy | the Daily Mail
Looks like Shani Wallis was lucky to get the film role.
I know you're just expressing an aesthetic opinion Kate, but it wouldn't bother me if Nancy was black, as long as she was good enough for the role. There would have been plenty of black, gin swingin', tarts with hearts in the east end in Victorian London.
A black Oliver is a different matter, as he is related to other members of the cast, and brings in different issues, unless they too are black.
I'd do anything to be a judge on I'd Do Anything ... but all they offered me was a one-minute slot, says the original Nancy | the Daily Mail
Looks like Shani Wallis was lucky to get the film role.
I know you're just expressing an aesthetic opinion Kate, but it wouldn't bother me if Nancy was black, as long as she was good enough for the role. There would have been plenty of black, gin swingin', tarts with hearts in the east end in Victorian London.
A black Oliver is a different matter, as he is related to other members of the cast, and brings in different issues, unless they too are black.
Not pickin' on you, honest hun, but I have to disagree with you on this one too, but 'having a great deal of colour in their faces' wouldn't have been seen as being healthy. For one thing they wouldn't have been healthy, living in the insanitary cess pit of London's slums. It more likey meant they liked more than the odd tipple.
Any real lady of fashion would have wanted a complexion that looked like she'd never stepped out from under a parasol, thus showing she didn't have the appearance of a woman who actually had to work for a living.
It wasn't until the 1920's, when Coco Channel accidentally got sun burned in Biarritz, that having any colour on your face became socially acceptable, and fashionable.
Agree you are correct about the fad that was around then amongst the higher classes and pale complexions .. but appears Dickens thought differently about the look of health, or he would not have offered his description of them in this way. 'stout and healthy' .. love it ..
That article was very interesting about Shani Wallis. Couldn't see Shirley Bassey in this role at all .. no sequined dresses and certainly could not see her portraying the underlying vulnerablity that Nancy had, or subservience to Bill Sikes LOL. She certainly has the common touch though.
I saw a production of Oliver in Manchester a few years ago, and both Nancy and Fagin were black. I cant remember the name of the woman that played Nancy. She was on earlier in the series though when they were at "Nancy School" and Gary Wilmot played Fagin. They were both fantastic and it didnt really cross my mind whilst watching it. I do agree about Oliver being black as that would be a continuity error as Garinda said, you see members of his family.
I dont think it matters in musicals about colour unless the role calls for it. I've seen Gary Wilmot again in Me & My Girl, and I was in a production of Me & My Girl where Bill was played by a black actor. When I was in it I didnt even think about it and nobody has ever mentioned it.
I dont think it matters in musicals about colour unless the role calls for it. I've seen Gary Wilmot again in Me & My Girl, and I was in a production of Me & My Girl where Bill was played by a black actor. When I was in it I didnt even think about it and nobody has ever mentioned it.
Couldn't see Shirley Bassey in this role at all .. no sequined dresses and certainly could not see her portraying the underlying vulnerablity that Nancy had, or subservience to Bill Sikes LOL. She certainly has the common touch though.
I think a pre-sequin Bassy would have made an interesting Nancy. Certainly the scratching by the cat from Tiger Bay is pure Nancy.
YouTube - Shirley Bassey - DOCUMENTARY (Clip 2)
The BBC had a black Nancy in their production last Christmas.
Sophie Okonedo does the Twist - Times Online
You are on form todayIt can't have been Julian Clary then....he's white
