is John Wayne dead ?

Yes, I agree that we all must take some responsibility for our own safety...but just how far can you take this? And shouldn't someone in Authority be responsible for the collective safety of the students?

Personally I would not like to carry a weapon, because it can be turned and used against me....and I would hope that in a vast public establishment there would be some form of security the required me not to have to worry about a gunman.
Though I would still acquaint myself with the fire exits and procedure.

Maybe I won't move to the USA after all.

Margaret, you have far more faith in the public establishment than I do. How likely is it that a policeman is going to be there in your hour of need? I'd much rather read stories like the one in the following link than see another Virginia Tech.

www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,267540,00.html
 
But look at what happens here to people who try to intervene. If this had happened in England and someone had had a gun and shot the guy who was killing students that person would have been arrested for murder.
 
Facts On Gun Deaths In The USA



The Americans value their constitution and the U.S. Constitution's Second Amendment deals with the right to bear arms. Here is the price that ordinary Americans are paying for the privilege



- 8 children a day die in murders, suicides and accidents involving guns



- since John F. Kennedy was assinated more Americans have died from gunshot wounds at home than died in all the wars of the 20th century



- Osama bin Laden would need at least nine twin towers like attacks each year to equal what Americans do to themselves every year with guns.



- Murder rates in LA, NY and Chigago were approaching the hightest in the world (30 per 100,000) until moves were made in late 20th century to restrict access to guns to teenagers. (The NRA wants these moves reversed)





http://thegreenman.net.au/mt/archives/000473.html
 
Niether , just someone who is fed-up with the one sided media reporting, where anyone who 'dares' to say anything about critical about the policies or actions of Israel is condemed as being anti-semetic, and being subjected to constant emotional blackmail over 'our' collective guilt for allowing the operation of death camps in the first half of the last century. (incidentally where is the universal condemnation about Israel having nuclear weapons ? surley they live in the same area which the Govts. in Washington and London want to make nuclear free zones)

Life is tough, the jews aren't the only people who suffered from ethnic cleansing, ask the folks who live around Hirosima and Nagasaki (oh I forgot, the were just slitty eyed Japs) or maybe the Armenians, (remember them ....they were force marched out into the desert .....and none came back). I don't see much being done except hand-wringing and crocodile tears for the folks in Darfur (a region of the Sudan in Africa) where thousands are dying every week thru starvation.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

If your sick of one sided journalism- read a better paper.

Genocide is abhorrent in each and every case throughout history- the comment you made however suggests that your are particlulalry 'bored' with hearing about the jewish holocaust specifically. Perhaps you think it has too much press. To use the term 'life is tough' in connection with this subject I find frankly staggering.
You 'dont see much being done' - well get off your backside and do something then. This is what makes me sick- people who moan and groan about the media, about politics, about society, crime, anti social behaviour, young people etc etc etc but dont actually do anything about it.
 
Facts On Gun Deaths In The USA



The Americans value their constitution and the U.S. Constitution's Second Amendment deals with the right to bear arms. Here is the price that ordinary Americans are paying for the privilege



- 8 children a day die in murders, suicides and accidents involving guns



- since John F. Kennedy was assinated more Americans have died from gunshot wounds at home than died in all the wars of the 20th century



- Osama bin Laden would need at least nine twin towers like attacks each year to equal what Americans do to themselves every year with guns.



- Murder rates in LA, NY and Chigago were approaching the hightest in the world (30 per 100,000) until moves were made in late 20th century to restrict access to guns to teenagers. (The NRA wants these moves reversed)





http://thegreenman.net.au/mt/archives/000473.html
The movie "Bowling for Columbine" provides some interesting views of American attitudes to firearms. And it also shows that there is no unanimity in America on the question of firearms. It would be wrong to lump all US citizens in the guntoting redneck camp.

I remember reading in one thread about that the first two ammendments were next to one another for the reason that they are somehow related. To go off topic for a moment, let's look at the issue of flag burning. I find it ironic that those who tout the 2nd ammendment are often those who support a law banning the burning of the American flag. But the right of Americans to burn their flag is guaranteed by the first ammendment. To pass such a law would be to undermine basic freedoms of speech and expression. Why do so many Americans want to emasculate the first ammendment, yet still keep sacrosanct the second?

In my opinion ... and it is opinion only ... the second ammendment like the one dealing with the quartering of troops in private homes (I forget the number) is an anachronism. When there was the potential need for a true citizen army, which is distinctly differnt from a volunteer army, the ammendment had value. I am certain that the founding fathers did not intend that Americans should be able to arm themselves with sophisticated firearms which endanger the lives of innocent civilians.
 
But look at what happens here to people who try to intervene. If this had happened in England and someone had had a gun and shot the guy who was killing students that person would have been arrested for murder.

I know. It's a fatal flaw in your law.

For Eric and garinda.....you have perceptions but your facts are wanting. For definitive stats, try "More Guns, Less Crime", by John Lott. I doubt anyone has studied this subject more than Mr. Lott. He has an interesting web site also. www.johnrlott.com
 
I know. It's a fatal flaw in your law.

For Eric and garinda.....you have perceptions but your facts are wanting. For definitive stats, try "More Guns, Less Crime", by John Lott. I doubt anyone has studied this subject more than Mr. Lott. He has an interesting web site also. www.johnrlott.com

Bullseyebarb , this is especially for you , and would welcome your comments http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/04/27/ngun27.xml its a news story from the Daily Telegraph about women police officers in the UK complaining the guns they being issued are too big for their hands :D :D
 
I know. It's a fatal flaw in your law.

For Eric and garinda.....you have perceptions but your facts are wanting. For definitive stats, try "More Guns, Less Crime", by John Lott. I doubt anyone has studied this subject more than Mr. Lott. He has an interesting web site also. www.johnrlott.com

And now we have definitive stats ... what are those; nine out of ten doctors leaves one? And don't get the idea that Canadians don't have guns. We do; I own two shotguns and two hunting rifles, and I am presently restoring a WW1 vintage Lee-Enfield. The guns that are difficult to aquire are hand guns, and the kind of assault weapons that are available in Crackerjack boxes in many US states. And with the guns we have we do not usually shoot people. Check out the murder rate in Detroit and that of Windsor on the Canadian side. These stats are interesting, if not definative. When the City of Detroit has more murders in a year than the whole of the British Isles, something is rotten in the state of Michigan.

When people carry handguns in the glove compartments of their cars, it adds an interesting dimension to road rage. I have a bumper sticker a friend sent me from LA, it reads: "Cover me, I'm changing lanes." The murder rate in the US should suggest that something is wrong. And then there is the state murder rate; America is the only western first-world country that routinely executes murderers. I suppose you are aware that Canada always refuses to deport anyone to the States if they are likely to face the death penalty. That point alone gives me immense pride in my country. Anyway I am rambling off topic.

Nothing personal eh:) I just happen to believe as strongly in my point of view as you do in yours. After all, that's what democracy is all about.
 
I know. It's a fatal flaw in your law.

For Eric and garinda.....you have perceptions but your facts are wanting. For definitive stats, try "More Guns, Less Crime", by John Lott. I doubt anyone has studied this subject more than Mr. Lott. He has an interesting web site also. www.johnrlott.com


Having just read through the previous postings on this thread I have found the differing opinions on display very interseting. As a criminologist I have read three of Mr Lott's publications and must say that you could do with finding a better source to support your argument. His research is deeply flawed in both its approach and its qualitative and quantitaive findings. The conclusions he draws are widely discredited.
 
I suppose you are aware that Canada always refuses to deport anyone to the States if they are likely to face the death penalty. That point alone gives me immense pride in my country. Anyway I am rambling off topic.

Nothing personal eh:) I just happen to believe as strongly in my point of view as you do in yours. After all, that's what democracy is all about.

Eric , I think you are wrong on this point , a guy called Charles Ng was repatriated to California a few years back and is now waiting his turn along with over 600+ other killers on Californias death row ( an outrageous number since all have been found guilty under the Law , but sleazeball lawyers and lack of will by elected politicians keep finding ways to stop the sentances being carried out ) ;) ;)
 
Eric , I think you are wrong on this point , a guy called Charles Ng was repatriated to California a few years back and is now waiting his turn along with over 600+ other killers on Californias death row ( an outrageous number since all have been found guilty under the Law , but sleazeball lawyers and lack of will by elected politicians keep finding ways to stop the sentances being carried out ) ;) ;)
I remember that case ... and I believe I remember that there was some quirk about it. I would like to trust to my memory, but I might have to resort to google. Good point tho'. I think that it may have to do with his commiting crimes in Canada too.
 
Having just read through the previous postings on this thread I have found the differing opinions on display very interseting. As a criminologist I have read three of Mr Lott's publications and must say that you could do with finding a better source to support your argument. His research is deeply flawed in both its approach and its qualitative and quantitaive findings. The conclusions he draws are widely discredited.

By whom? Apparently, they are not acquainted with cities like Kennesaw, Georgia, where citizens are required to have a firearm, (unless a felon or have some religious objection, of course). www.kennesaw.ga.us/index.asp?NID=137

When are you going to wake up and realize that self defense actually does deter crime?
 
And now we have definitive stats ... what are those; nine out of ten doctors leaves one? And don't get the idea that Canadians don't have guns. We do; I own two shotguns and two hunting rifles, and I am presently restoring a WW1 vintage Lee-Enfield. The guns that are difficult to aquire are hand guns, and the kind of assault weapons that are available in Crackerjack boxes in many US states. And with the guns we have we do not usually shoot people. Check out the murder rate in Detroit and that of Windsor on the Canadian side. These stats are interesting, if not definative. When the City of Detroit has more murders in a year than the whole of the British Isles, something is rotten in the state of Michigan.

When people carry handguns in the glove compartments of their cars, it adds an interesting dimension to road rage. I have a bumper sticker a friend sent me from LA, it reads: "Cover me, I'm changing lanes." The murder rate in the US should suggest that something is wrong. And then there is the state murder rate; America is the only western first-world country that routinely executes murderers. I suppose you are aware that Canada always refuses to deport anyone to the States if they are likely to face the death penalty. That point alone gives me immense pride in my country. Anyway I am rambling off topic.

Nothing personal eh:) I just happen to believe as strongly in my point of view as you do in yours. After all, that's what democracy is all about.

I never take anything personally, Eric. I have relatives in Canada. Cousins in BC and cousins, plus a 90 year old aunt, in Ontario. Oddly, those in the lefty East are very much in my way of thinking - including auntie, who has plenty of moxy left, believe me.

Assault weapons, my you know what! A definition, please. We can't buy them here legally. Only the criminals manage to get their hands on those. You really must learn to distinguish between law-abiding citizens and felons. See my post to Remedi above.

Detroit....gang central. And let us not forget the drug trafficking. Ditto any major metropolis.

Any idiot who goes postal on the highway and pulls a gun belongs in jail......for a very long time.

Punish the guilty, not the innocent.

Some crimes are so beyond the Pale, they deserve the death penalty. I'm with Steeljack on this one.
 
Punish the guilty, not the innocent.

Some crimes are so beyond the Pale, they deserve the death penalty. I'm with Steeljack on this .--------------------------------------------------------agree entirely with that part of yer argument, pity MPs aint got the balls to do owt about it.
 
re . the Death penalty , I've said in previous posts that I am pro , in favour of it , but then I ask myself , would I be in favour of it if it was one of my family who was in the dock looking at the rope/gas chamber/ sparky etc. same with abortion , I'm in favour of 'a womans right to choose' , but .....if the unborn was one of my own, how would I feel then ? seems a bit hypocritical to be in favour of one and against the other since the end result is essensially the same . :confused: :confused:
would welcome others views
 
I'm in favour of 'a womans right to choose' , but .....if the unborn was one of my own, how would I feel then ? seems a bit hypocritical to be in favour of one and against the other since the end result is essensially the same . :confused: :confused:
would welcome others views

I think when General Electric developed the technology to give us those amazing images of children in the womb, it pretty much turned the argument around. You cannot put the convicted in the same category as the unborn.
 
I never take anything personally, Eric. I have relatives in Canada. Cousins in BC and cousins, plus a 90 year old aunt, in Ontario. Oddly, those in the lefty East are very much in my way of thinking - including auntie, who has plenty of moxy left, believe me.

Assault weapons, my you know what! A definition, please. We can't buy them here legally. Only the criminals manage to get their hands on those. You really must learn to distinguish between law-abiding citizens and felons. See my post to Remedi above.

Detroit....gang central. And let us not forget the drug trafficking. Ditto any major metropolis.

Any idiot who goes postal on the highway and pulls a gun belongs in jail......for a very long time.

Punish the guilty, not the innocent.

Some crimes are so beyond the Pale, they deserve the death penalty. I'm with Steeljack on this one.
Before I start to disagree with evrthg you say:D I do hope that your relatives enjoy living in the great white north. I particularly envy your cousins in BC (we often call it British California). I hope that your aunt is happy in Ontario, where, if she should need medical care, she will get the best in the world at no cost. I had to get that one in.

I really have no idea where the "lefty east" is. In Ontario we have a liberal govt. Ontario liberals are like Northern Democrats. But the
Conservatives (like Northern Republicans) are very strong.

I am surprised at the cavalier way you dismiss your major cities ... some of them anyway ... have you given up on them? Is it ok that drive by shootings, 1000's of homeless sleeping on the streets are features of the major metropolitan areas of the richest and most powerful country in the world? Canada's largest city (Toronto) is the fifth largest in North America (Mexico City is the largest) yet, tho' it has some of the problems of large urban centres, it is clean and safe.

The idiot who pulls the gun on the highway must have access to that gun in the first place.

The question of punishing the guilty is not at issue. What is, is the element of revenge in capital punishment, not to mention the fact that innocent men and women may die on the scaffold or in the chair. The State must not exact revenge. Revenge is passionate, highly charged and very personal.

Anyway, it is a beautiful evening, the open road calls, so I will hop onto my motorcycle and go blow some of the cobwebs out of my mind.
 
I particularly envy your cousins in BC (we often call it British California). .

is that a sly dig at California ? sounds a bit like those bumperstickers we often see on the cars in the State north of us " Don't Californicate Oregon"

;) ;)
 
is that a sly dig at California ? sounds a bit like those bumperstickers we often see on the cars in the State north of us " Don't Californicate Oregon"

;) ;)

Californicate a new one on me but get the gist. Hell they are doing well with it are they not.
 
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