michael howard
- Thread starter cashman
- Start date
As a Labour supporter the only man I fear is Ken Clarke,the names that were given out on sky news John Redwood etc etc would get no more votes than MH! They must learn like we had to that if you want to win power you must try to get the centre ground and not just appeal to their own voters!
as for TB,I agree he'll move over in a couple of years and then let Gordon Brown or who ever (they'll be others who'll want the job as well) take over in good time for the next election.
as for TB,I agree he'll move over in a couple of years and then let Gordon Brown or who ever (they'll be others who'll want the job as well) take over in good time for the next election.
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clarke has always been a political heavyweight and would agree wholeheartedly they need to capture the middle ground, as conservitive means conserve for oneself they might find that a bitter pill to swallow. why can't we have a bet on when blair stands down?
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The interesting scenario is the future Blair/Brown relationship. Given the major structural weaknesses within the economy - which Brown is primarily responsible for - all the key financial indicators are now firmly pointing towards a substancial recession. Will Brown put the knife in Blair's back before that recession rolls in and move next door into number 10? Or will Blair hang on and let Brown stew in his own broth as private sector unemployment climbs remorselesly, house repocessions rise and people finally realise that Brown's stewardship of the economy has been an unmitigated disaster.
Does this mean that Bliar has Maggie's endorsement? Perhaps he should apply for Howard's job, somehow I think they would turn him down as being too right wing. My choice as successor to Michael Howard is Boris Johnson. How could the Conservatives lose with Boris as leader?Baroness Thatcher said:
Michael Howard has announced he will stand down as Conservative leader - but not until the rules for choosing a successor are reformed.
Mr Howard said he had failed to deliver the election victory he wanted and it was in the interests of the country and the party to go.
However, as there was widespread dissatisfaction with the existing rules on choosing a leader, he urged the party to reconsider them.
Until then, he would remain in the post.
Mr Howard said he had failed to deliver the election victory he wanted and it was in the interests of the country and the party to go.
However, as there was widespread dissatisfaction with the existing rules on choosing a leader, he urged the party to reconsider them.
Until then, he would remain in the post.
cashman said:
I suggest you read something like the FT or the financial sections of our more serious newspapers, or failing that listen to the business report on Radio 4 at 6 each morning. All the signs are there - manufacturing inventories being run down, quarterly manufacturing output down, like-for-like retail sales down, housing market slowdown, repocessions already up, large job losses being announced (Rover, IBM, Marconi), small company business failures rapidly rising. Meanwhile, zero or little growth in the western part of the EU, output growth slowing rapidly in the US....
A recession is on its way- have no doubt about it.
come on mate rover closed down cos people had stopped buying the crappy outdated cars they produced,the job losses are tragic,but it wouldn't have mattered a jot who was in power,i think these days things are on a downturn mainly due to the technilogical deveopments that are becoming mainstream,just like 100 years ago when the automatic looms were brought in.the computor age is marvellous in some respects,but theres always a downside.
cashman said:
Exactly. All capitalist economies work in cycles of boom and downside. The problem is that Brown has claimed 50 quarters of continuous economic growth, the longest ever sustained period in UK history. His memory is somewhat faulty, however, because the first 5 years of this boom were, under conservative rule (1992-1997).
After all this time of sustained growth, Brown has to borrow the equivalent of 3.5% of GNP in order to meet the difference between tax revenue and spending, because government spending which was 34% of GNP in 1997 is now almost 40% of GNP; in other words, government spending has grown far faster than the ability of the taxpayer to pay for it.
Where is all this additional spending going? Well, its not on new hospitals and schools because most of those are PPP and off the balance sheet; to some extent its going on additional police, teachers, nurses, etc but for the most part its going on extra bureaucrats (600,000 at the last count). You have a guess at how many of these are graduates in lesbian and media studies and otherwise unemployable. If they were on the rock & roll on seventy quid a week, it would'nt be too bad; but they're not, they're pi**ing it away on 30 or 40K a year plus all the pension liability stack-up
So we're paying for this lot now by borrowing. What is going to happen when a recession starts and tax revenue falls...More borrowing? You can rule that one out straightaway, because we're already on our limit. Public sector lay-offs? Unlikely - that won't happen (not amongst bureaucrats, anyway). The only answer is a hitch in the tax rates. What happens then? Less investment and less growth and we again end up the crap hole of Europe as we were back in 1979.
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Tealeaf I can understand your concerns, but isn't that always typical of any British government of the day. Here's a story you may not be aware of. During WW2, the government took out of every workers pay something they called "War Bonds" this was to help pay for the war effort. After the war the Government put off and put off paying it back(which is what they had promised to do) My father, who worked on building aircraft) didn't get his untill well after he died in the seventies. I.E my mother received them in 1980 or thereabouts. She received exactly the amount that he had paid. 41 pounds sterling. No interest or anything. The buying power of the sterling during the war was far greater than the buying power of the sterling in 1980. That's how I perceive the British establishment and always will. Good luck to you who still live there.
Sorry I know it's not relevant for today or this thread, but it's just one example of many that springs to mind of the old days so I do sort of know where you are coming from
Sorry I know it's not relevant for today or this thread, but it's just one example of many that springs to mind of the old days so I do sort of know where you are coming fromcashman said:
It had nothing to do with the cars - Honda are still going strong.
No, it had something to do with them selling out to BMW.
Honda pulled out sharpish, as they didn't want the germans getting hold of their technology.
BMW then proceeded to strip anything of value from Rover (ie Mini), then left them high and dry to rot.
Tealeaf said:
Which might have an interesting corollary effect. I wonder how many immigrants will be clamouring to get into the country when there is nothing left to scrounge. But then again, perhaps this is Tony's BIG IDEA to solve the immigration issue.
The sensible among you will now do whatever you can to pay off your outstanding credit as quickly as possible and then get as much money into Tax efficient savings as you can because you are going to need it over then next ten years or so.