Monkey steps

Tha clutchin at straws if tha tryin to meck sense o nicknames, un them us gi id thad name are long gone, gioer fratchin n just accept ids calld Munky Steps.
Its like Cockney Rhyming slang it was in use for donkeys years before it was writen down, who knows who started that, I know why, but who ?.

Retlaw.

I disagree Retlaw that we should just accept the nickname they have been given .. usually a great story of local interest and the ways of our past ancestors. Someone will remember why they were called 'monkey steps' somewhere. Think Atarah not far off the mark ... just the way they had to be climbed or summat like that ... the way of a monkey.

Noticed on a Wirral Forum .. they had the same nickname for Monkey/Donkey steps .. they had part of the town called 'Donkey Town', there was a letter in their Wirral Times which went like this:

"The mother told us that it got its name because the owner of the donkey kept it in the parlour. It was used to pull carts which belonged to the firewood sellers who went around the district.
In the Summer, in hot sunny weather, these donkeys had a straw hat on their heads with two holes for their ears to come through.
In those days they sold treacle and syrup in the streets. We took jars out to buy the treacle from the vendors. Also rag men came with balloons and toys which were exchanged for rags.
Times have changed, we as children enjoyed these visits to our streets."



Now that is cool .. :)


Noticed we have a Donkey Lane which runs down the side of Church Kirk church to the Leeds and Liverpool canal .. didn't know this, must be an 'ass' story there .....:D:D
 
I disagree Retlaw that we should just accept the nickname they have been given .. usually a great story of local interest and the ways of our past ancestors. Someone will remember why they were called 'monkey steps' somewhere. Think Atarah not far off the mark ... just the way they had to be climbed or summat like that ... the way of a monkey.
Hi Snakehead.
A thowt thad ev a do at mi, thi wur calld Munky Steps wen a wur a lad, mi faythur calld um Munky Steps an if e wur still ear he wud be 105.
So oose bena remember wen thi wur fost called Munky Steps.
Mebe Atarah's reight bud oose ony guessin.

Retlaw.
 
Hi Lurch,

But stories are passed on from generation to generation aren't they... maybe with a few additions though .. LOL.

I've never been up them ... how far do/did they go up then .. was it just the few steps as in Atarah's 'photo ? Yes . does appear so in your map .. before you tell me to go to Specsavers (or did you draw them in) .. :D
 
Hi Lurch,

But stories are passed on from generation to generation aren't they... maybe with a few additions though .. LOL.

I've never been up them ... how far do/did they go up then .. was it just the few steps as in Atarah's 'photo ? Yes . does appear so in your map .. before you tell me to go to Specsavers (or did you draw them in) .. :D
Hi Snakehead.
Aye gu tu specsavers then luk ad post 4, idl tel thi wur thi gu too.

Retlaw.
 
Yes, I can see that :p.. was just querying whether there were more steps 'then' than there is 'now'.
I've given up on thee, why the ell would anybody need to add or remove them steps, they've bin there oer 160 years. Ged on wi thi knittin un mek anuther cardigan.

Retlaw
 
I've given up on thee, why the ell would anybody need to add or remove them steps, they've bin there oer 160 years. Ged on wi thi knittin un mek anuther cardigan.

Retlaw

Just askin' .. never ask, never get.

Knittin' ? Well, I actually can tha' noes. Think I was one of those women during the French revolution in a past life .. so watch it :behead:
 
Although not from the area, I still find local History interesting, & the thing about your "steps" being called Monkey, could it be a corruption of maybe Manky or Money ? Would that in any way fit into your local History. Or maybe in a Military sense as in Brass Monkey (Holder for cannon balls)? like a local artillery unit City defence or some such ? Probably way off the mark but just maybe ? Then there's religion Monks ? or as I've just looked the old steps leading onto trams & Buses & the like where conductors stood were called Monkey boards ?
 
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Although not from the area, I still find local History interesting, & the thing about your "steps" being called Monkey, could it be a corruption of maybe Manky or Money ? Would that in any way fit into your local History. Or maybe in a Military sense as in Brass Monkey (Holder for cannon balls)? like a local artillery unit City defence or some such ? Probably way off the mark but just maybe ? Then there's religion Monks ? or as I've just looked the old steps leading onto trams & Buses & the like where conductors stood were called Monkey boards ?

Mmmm . there all food for thought Dave. They may have been 'manky' .. meaning grim and dirty, and evolved to monkey.

Monks ... weren't any then when these were built.

As for the cannon theory ... reckon Retlaw will soon be back shooting you down on this one ... :D
 
Monkeys were caged curiosities/attractions at one time.
There was one at Roughlee by the boating lake, and they physically hung one in Hartlepool, when it was thought to be a Napoleonic/french spy.

Perhaps a local resident nearby kept one caged in their window, and it was visible from those steps.
 
Mmmm . there all food for thought Dave. They may have been 'manky' .. meaning grim and dirty, and evolved to monkey.

Monks ... weren't any then when these were built.

As for the cannon theory ... reckon Retlaw will soon be back shooting you down on this one ... :D

Shot down in my prime ? :eek: for making a few shots in the dark ! :) life can be so unfair :D
 
Mmmm . there all food for thought Dave. They may have been 'manky' .. meaning grim and dirty, and evolved to monkey.

Monks ... weren't any then when these were built.

As for the cannon theory ... reckon Retlaw will soon be back shooting you down on this one ... :D
No cannons round here, there were some old ones up on Coppice at one time but they disappeared in 1940. Also brass monkeys have nowt to do with cannon balls. As for the other one that some one kept a monkey, before the fire station and the houses for the firemen, you could'nt see any dwellings from there that were nearer than Grange lane.

Its that dammed Atarah's fault, she were a little monkey when she were a kid.

Retlaw..
 
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. Also brass monkeys have nowt to do with cannon balls.....

Retlaw..

Agreed that brass monkeys have nowt to do with cannonballs (I'm amazed that the myth still persists). However, Powder Monkeys do have everything to do with cannonballs - men as well as boys running and carrying supplies from the magazines below decks to the gunnnery crews on the decks above. There probably would have been a hundred or so of them involved on a major warship such as HMS Victory.

I'm quite sure that if these steps attracted young lads to fool around on some 160 years ago someone no doubt would have drawn a similarity to activity aboard a Nelsonian or later ship and hence conferred such a sobriquet.
 
Agreed that brass monkeys have nowt to do with cannonballs (I'm amazed that the myth still persists). However, Powder Monkeys do have everything to do with cannonballs - men as well as boys running and carrying supplies from the magazines below decks to the gunnnery crews on the decks above. There probably would have been a hundred or so of them involved on a major warship such as HMS Victory.

I'm quite sure that if these steps attracted young lads to fool around on some 160 years ago someone no doubt would have drawn a similarity to activity aboard a Nelsonian or later ship and hence conferred such a sobriquet.
The myth still persist because of Hollywood, showing pyramids of cannon balls on the main deck.
Cannon balls were kept in racks next to the guns on the gun decks, three men manned each gun. After the first shot swab the bore with a wet mop, drop in the powder charge (which was in a linen bag), then the ball and ram it home that split the bag of powder and acted as a patch to seal the bore, then these two would return the gun to battery, the gunlayer then cocks the frizen and primes the pan, or inserts the friction fuse, and gets hold of the lanyard ready to fire on command,
whilst the powder monkeys (young boys because of confined spaces) are continually coming up through the hatches from the magazine delivering more charges.
The gun decks also had to be kept wet to prevent any spilt powder being ignited, and the racks had to be kept filled with cannon balls.
These men would and also have to be battle ready to act as boarding parties.
They also had their other jobs when no battles were on.
Retlaw.
 
The myth still persist because of Hollywood, showing pyramids of cannon balls on the main deck.
Cannon balls were kept in racks next to the guns on the gun decks, three men manned each gun. .....whilst the powder monkeys (young boys because of confined spaces) are continually coming up through the hatches from the magazine delivering more charges.
Retlaw.

The naval term for the rack was a "shot garland".

Anyway, I've just looked at the first piccy again and those steps do give a very confined, closeted appearance, similar to that which steps leading to deck hatches on a man o' war would have appeared, so possibly there may be something in the theory. Of course, that is just what it is
 
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.
Cannon balls were kept in racks next to the guns on the gun decks, three men manned each gun. .......whilst the powder monkeys (young boys because of confined spaces) are continually coming up through the hatches from the magazine delivering more charges.
Retlaw.

The naval term for the rack was "shot garland".

Anyway, I've looked again at the first picture and it is does give a similar enclosed, somewhat claustrophobic appearance to the steps leading to the deck hatches on a 19th century Man 'O War, so maybe there is something in the theory. But a theory is all that it is, because of course, we have no hard evidence. Still, it's fun to speculate.

To continue with the naval parlance, I bet those steps have been used as heads on more than one occaision.
 
The steps have been called 'Monkey Steps' for as long as I have known them, certainly since the begining of the sixties. Why was never explained to me and I was then too incurious to ask.
I was told of Bunny and his donkey just after I left school and started work, the story ran that one day Bunny turned up at the Market minus donkey and when he was asked why he is said to have replied 'Ahh dunno, Ahh jus geet it used to not eatin an it deed on mi.'
 
I was told of Bunny and his donkey just after I left school and started work, the story ran that one day Bunny turned up at the Market minus donkey and when he was asked why he is said to have replied 'Ahh dunno, Ahh jus geet it used to not eatin an it deed on mi.'[/quote]
A couple of pictures of Alfred (Bunny) Barnes.
He use to appear on the Stage at Accy Hippodrome with his donkey which wore boxing gloves, and pretend to box with it.

Theres also a tale of Bunny coming down Manchester Rd one night with his donkey cart, when he spots a copper, so he unharnessed the donkey and put it on the cart and took up the shafts and carried on. Copper stopped and said where's the lamp Bunny, (you were supposed to have a lamp hanging on the back end of carts)
Bunny replied don't ask me ask the driver.

Retlaw.
 

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I was told of Bunny and his donkey just after I left school and started work, the story ran that one day Bunny turned up at the Market minus donkey and when he was asked why he is said to have replied 'Ahh dunno, Ahh jus geet it used to not eatin an it deed on mi.'
A couple of pictures of Alfred (Bunny) Barnes.
He use to appear on the Stage at Accy Hippodrome with his donkey which wore boxing gloves, and pretend to box with it.

Theres also a tale of Bunny coming down Manchester Rd one night with his donkey cart, when he spots a copper, so he unharnessed the donkey and put it on the cart and took up the shafts and carried on. Copper stopped and said where's the lamp Bunny, (you were supposed to have a lamp hanging on the back end of carts)
Bunny replied don't ask me ask the driver.

Retlaw.[/quote]

Just had a look at the pictures you posted, I assume in the background it's a Pub ? but I also assume it no longer exists in the present day & age. Also in the second picture it shows a horse harnessed to the cart, was this prior to, or after his Donkey ?
 
A couple of pictures of Alfred (Bunny) Barnes.
He use to appear on the Stage at Accy Hippodrome with his donkey which wore boxing gloves, and pretend to box with it.

Theres also a tale of Bunny coming down Manchester Rd one night with his donkey cart, when he spots a copper, so he unharnessed the donkey and put it on the cart and took up the shafts and carried on. Copper stopped and said where's the lamp Bunny, (you were supposed to have a lamp hanging on the back end of carts)
Bunny replied don't ask me ask the driver.

Retlaw.

Just had a look at the pictures you posted, I assume in the background it's a Pub ? but I also assume it no longer exists in the present day & age. Also in the second picture it shows a horse harnessed to the cart, was this prior to, or after his Donkey ?[/quote]
If you look at the pictures you will see he is a lot older where he is holding the head of the horse.
Like a lot of other pubs in Accy its long gone. Retlaw.
 
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