And a rubber's not much use either
mr britcliffe
- Thread starter tosh
- Start date
If it cites figures then it only makes sense to have a look to see if they're accurate!
I don't care where it comes from. Look at the way they have come up with the figure, and ask if its representative of Hyndburn. You will find that it cites band D houses and does not take into account the fact that the majority of people are not paying £1500+ council tax bills.
If theyve used band D across all the councils well then its fair. If they used band A from hyndburn, band c from rossendale, band b from blackburn - thats not fair is it.
Yes you are arguing against him, you are trying to make everything rosy so far as your views are concerned, now that 'rindy has you cornered you are trying to make it seem YOU'RE educating him, I think we've seen enough of his posts to realise he doesn't need to learn much from a first year college student to know when the toilets blocked, 'cos there's a stink coming from somewhere!
I'm arguing against the figures. He said he was simply quoting so how can I argue against him?
I'm not painting everything as rosy, but I am saying that we are not the most expensive council. It matters a great deal which band they surveyed. If you calculate it using what's actually happening in reality, you'll see that a MUCH lower percentage of income goes to council tax than it states.
The figure is worked out from average salary and then what percentage of income goes to council tax if you're in BAND D. Considering most people living in band D properties have an income of more than £17,000 it's not at all accurate.
Proper little politician, only answering what you've been briefed to answer and ignoring everything else!
You asked a question, you got an answer, now please tell me what is right or what is wrong, what is too simplistic or what is too complex about my answer or even how irrelivant it is, but at least have the courtesy to answer!
Don't just ignore it because it wasn't part of today's course lecture.
How is it fair? Every constituency has different numbers of households under band A, B, C, D.. It was done on band D to compare the north to the south, and of course it looks like the north is more expensive because the average incomes are lower, but they're still comparing band D property.
Proper little politician, only answering what you've been briefed to answer and ignoring everything else!
You asked a question, you got an answer, now please tell me what is right or what is wrong, what is too simplistic or what is too complex about my answer or even how irrelivant it is, but at least have the courtesy to answer!
Don't just ignore it because it wasn't part of today's course lecture.
See the post above yours?
Don't try and paint me as stupid because I'm a student. I haven't learnt about this from any lecture, I did the research in my own time. Trying to belittle somebody because of their age really doesn't wash.
Well considering they take £1200 a year from me and my fiance in council tax i would say they are expensive.
Between us we only earn around £15,000 it is a sizeable chunk of our income.
What the hell do you get for this money anyway?
It's a joke in my opinion,how do they justify it?
Between us we only earn around £15,000 it is a sizeable chunk of our income.
What the hell do you get for this money anyway?
It's a joke in my opinion,how do they justify it?
And that is your answer?
You would rather cry about me teasing you for being a student rather than reply to something, about which after all, you, asked the question:-
Believe it or not I happen to be a floating voter, I have never tied myself to one political party because I believe we all change some of our view points, two things have me thinking tonight however, one was a Labour representative that put a leaflet through my door but couldn't be arsed to close my gate! (proof of a caring party), the other is a blinkered young tory that instead of talking common sense hides behind 'facts & figures' that we all know can be manipulated either to suit us or to be dismissed as inaccurate.
Now can I ask you to come out from behind your smoke screen, stop pretending I've upset the inner student and reply to what I posted in reply to you?
Why?
Do you think some people don't know it is wrong to drop litter?
I think everyone knows it is wrong and they do it anyway.
I don't want my tax money being spent telling people it is wrong to litter. I want them fining for doing it and the fine money used to clear up the mess. Better still the people who litter should be forced to do the cleaning up.
I think people tend to forget that when they moan about spending cuts. You recover £1.8 million without something losing out.
And that is your answer?
You would rather cry about me teasing you for being a student rather than reply to something, about which after all, you, asked the question:-
Believe it or not I happen to be a floating voter, I have never tied myself to one political party because I believe we all change some of our view points, two things have me thinking tonight however, one was a Labour representative that put a leaflet through my door but couldn't be arsed to close my gate! (proof of a caring party), the other is a blinkered young tory that instead of talking common sense hides behind 'facts & figures' that we all know can be manipulated either to suit us or to be dismissed as inaccurate.
Now can I ask you to come out from behind your smoke screen, stop pretending I've upset the inner student and reply to what I posted in reply to you?
I have replied, have I not? the post above where you said I hadn't replied?
Food for thought when considering council tax :
"About how Council Tax is spent
In the tax year 2007/2008, 72.7% of the Council Tax bill is collected on behalf of Lancashire County Council, Hyndburn Borough Council receives 14.5%, 8.8% goes to Lancashire Police Authority and 4% goes to Lancashire Fire Authority.
So for a band D property paying £1438.88 Council Tax;
(taken from HBC website)
Many people forget that unlike Blackburn with Darwen, which is unitary, HBC falls under Lancashire County Council - which takes the vast majority of your council tax.
"About how Council Tax is spent
In the tax year 2007/2008, 72.7% of the Council Tax bill is collected on behalf of Lancashire County Council, Hyndburn Borough Council receives 14.5%, 8.8% goes to Lancashire Police Authority and 4% goes to Lancashire Fire Authority.
So for a band D property paying £1438.88 Council Tax;
- £1046.20 goes to Lancashire County Council
- £209.29 goes to Hyndburn Borough Council
- £125.95 goes to Lancashire Police Authority
- £57.44 goes to Lancashire Fire Authority
(taken from HBC website)
Many people forget that unlike Blackburn with Darwen, which is unitary, HBC falls under Lancashire County Council - which takes the vast majority of your council tax.
Thanks for pointing that out before I had a chance Mike. On the same observer page Graham Jones states that the Tories have increased Council Tax by 45% since taking conrol, spot on Graham, but what he doesn't tell you is that in that same period LABOUR CONTROLLED LANCASHIRE COUNTY COUNCIL have increased their share by 95%
. As mike has said we live in a two tier authority, with finances being split (for easy recKoning 80% LCC 20% HBC), lets just say that 8 years ago the council tax was £500 Band A, (this is just a round figure to explain) 400 going to LCC £100 to HBC, 95% rise at county would take there share to £780 whilst HBC share would go to £145, now who is costing you more Labour or Conservative. Has Neil said in a later post when you are left with a £1.8 million black hole something has to give, and according to the Audit Commision Hyndburn has turn their fortunes around from poor five years ago to excellant today, and they are the independant body which control council
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If polled I wonder how many of the people actually living in Hyndburn would rate the quality of services provided by the council as being 'excellent'?
You can't do anything until your finances are in order, the thing is Rindi for all his posturing Cllr Jones couldn't even put an alternative budget forward, at the budget meeting, seems he has problems with is calculator, I tend not the blame a machine I tend to think its the clown thats putting the information in that causes the porblem.
And here's another important point that is often overlooked - from what I understand, HBC had a debt of about £42m 8 years ago. As far as I know, that debt has now been reduced to about £14 million since. To put that in context, try embarking on a a massive saving mission, whilst still ensuring you're paying for everything that you need, whilst ensuring that additional money gets invested, whilst having someone else above you largely controlling your purse strings. No easy feat. Its very easy to criticise so try thinking how that would equate into your own income and spending patterns before dismissing the Council.
For a region like Hyndburn, good, sensible, cost effective local government is surely all you need and I think that is exactly what is being delivered.
For a region like Hyndburn, good, sensible, cost effective local government is surely all you need and I think that is exactly what is being delivered.
Admittedly I didn't live in Hyndburn the last time we had a Labour controlled council, though I did used to visit every month or so.
What is apparent to anyone with half a brain cell is that the area is now more run down than ten years ago.
Under a Tory run council we have seen the death of the outside market, once one of the busiest in the northwest.
At a cost of many millions of pounds the bus station was moved to accommodate the new market, and suprise suprise the council are planning on relocating it again, again at more cost.
We've seen the Conservative run council allow more new retail premises to be built in the area, many of them now stood empty, while long established businesses have gone to the wall, or relocated elsewhere. The economic retail boom that the country has experienced, certainly never made it to Hyndburn.
We may have pretty floral towers, but Accrington as a town is dieing on it's backside because of the woeful inability of the council to govern for the good of the people and the area.
What is apparent to anyone with half a brain cell is that the area is now more run down than ten years ago.
Under a Tory run council we have seen the death of the outside market, once one of the busiest in the northwest.
At a cost of many millions of pounds the bus station was moved to accommodate the new market, and suprise suprise the council are planning on relocating it again, again at more cost.
We've seen the Conservative run council allow more new retail premises to be built in the area, many of them now stood empty, while long established businesses have gone to the wall, or relocated elsewhere. The economic retail boom that the country has experienced, certainly never made it to Hyndburn.
We may have pretty floral towers, but Accrington as a town is dieing on it's backside because of the woeful inability of the council to govern for the good of the people and the area.
I think an area being 'run down' (and even the definition of 'run down' could be extended to include pretty much anything) is down to a number of factors and its a bit simplistic to try and blame the council. It depends on what you're talking about - if its a building who owns it, why its 'run down' in the first place and what it would take to fix it or deal with it if it cant be fixed. Of course things can always be done better, and that’s why debates are important rather than simply apportioning blame.
I think some important steps have been taken – parking is still free in Hyndburn, and that’s something that local businesses have made clear they want.
Unfortunately however, you cant force people to shop at a market – I travel the country quite a lot and regrettably lots of markets, some traditionally large ones are now struggling. I know Wolverhampton’s, despite having a large open market square, and being a statute defined market town, now only has about 1/5th of its market. Economic and commercial forces are large, complex and intertwined and are changing the way we shop. We also have changing work/life patterns which effect when and where people shop. I accept you may not like HBC and I’m not asking you to change you’re mind, just realise that you cant really blame HBC for people not shopping at the market anymore.
I think some important steps have been taken – parking is still free in Hyndburn, and that’s something that local businesses have made clear they want.
Unfortunately however, you cant force people to shop at a market – I travel the country quite a lot and regrettably lots of markets, some traditionally large ones are now struggling. I know Wolverhampton’s, despite having a large open market square, and being a statute defined market town, now only has about 1/5th of its market. Economic and commercial forces are large, complex and intertwined and are changing the way we shop. We also have changing work/life patterns which effect when and where people shop. I accept you may not like HBC and I’m not asking you to change you’re mind, just realise that you cant really blame HBC for people not shopping at the market anymore.