Save Energy

jambutty

Apprentice Geriatric
Tackler
The government is trying to encourage people to be ‘energy conscious’ in their homes and save energy. Yet it was announced on the news today, that Buckingham Palace will be floodlit from dusk to midnight with low energy floodlights for the duration of the Queen’s reign so that tourists can view the building. The sop to saving energy being the low energy floodlights. Low energy lights or not they still use energy without just cause.

Once again we the general public are encouraged to make sacrifices yet the rich and famous can carry on as before.

Local authorities are discussing the possibility of reducing street lighting or even turning it off after midnight but in their case it is to save money.

If this government is so taken up with saving energy than let the savings be across the WHOLE board not just the general domestic public.

They can start by scrapping the electrified railways and trams except the underground systems. 25% of the power generated to run the railways is lost in transit. A diesel engine using bio fuel will still pull a train at 100 mph.
 
jambutty said:
If this government is so taken up with saving energy than let the savings be across the WHOLE board not just the general domestic public.

They can start by scrapping the electrified railways and trams except the underground systems. 25% of the power generated to run the railways is lost in transit. A diesel engine using bio fuel will still pull a train at 100 mph.

EXCEPT is not across the whole board is it Jambutty
so every one has to cut down EXEPT Buckingham Palace same thing
 
does the guy in the box outside with the big wooly hat get an extra light as well , it only seems fair he should get one as well :)
 
"Buckingham Palace will be floodlit from dusk to midnight with low energy floodlights for the duration of the Queen’s reign so that tourists can view the building."

Tourist spend money and create jobs

"Local authorities are discussing the possibility of reducing street lighting or even turning it off after midnight but in their case it is to save money."
No reason for most folks to be out after midnight unless you are up to no good ,
 
jambutty said:
They can start by scrapping the electrified railways and trams except the underground systems. 25% of the power generated to run the railways is lost in transit. A diesel engine using bio fuel will still pull a train at 100 mph.

That is a very interesting statement.
Do you have any proof that 25% of generated power is lost?
What do you mean by 'transit' and where is 25% of the electricty going?
 
This is all mountian out of molehill stuff.. how far should we go to conserve power? why don't we start by banning blackpool aluminations? (party pooper)
 
why not put cats in microwaves , it wont save energy but would be fun to watch :D


on a more serious note why not have all new buildings have them low energy bulbs as part of teh building regulations or somthing , maybe make teh light sockets different for low energy bulbs so that they cant put the old style bulbs in
 
AccyJay said:
Maybe we should ban all electric cars & wheelchairs. Afterall, they all need recharging.

:confused:

your right , i remember people actualy using their arms to get about when in wheelchairs :rolleyes:


note to TC , just been sarcastic may your bateries live long and prosper :)
 
jambutty said:
that Buckingham Palace will be floodlit from dusk to midnight with low energy floodlights for the duration of the Queen’s reign so that tourists can view the building.

Well , not very long in summer is it Jambutty? sure this is being watched over by the Public Accounts Committee. Anyway, I'm feel the Queen is not totally happy with this .. lights shining in your bedroom 'til midnight !!! ... not much chance of an early night's sleep ... :D
 
It's a good idea for Buckingham Palace to be flood lit.

Come the revolution, it will be powered by the Royals on bicycles, peddaling away in the stable block.
 
Neil said:
That is a very interesting statement.
Do you have any proof that 25% of generated power is lost?
What do you mean by 'transit' and where is 25% of the electricty going?

Every kind of wire or third rail system has sone resistance, which is where the power is lost. The resistance causes the electrical energy to be lost as heat.

Can't speak to or find evidence for 25%, but the average electrical transmission loss in the US is about 7.2%, in the UK, 7.4%, according to one article on the web. Also, over longer distances it is more energy-efficient to tranport the fuel to a local generation facility, rather than transmit it over long distances.
 
jambutty said:
The government is trying to encourage people to be ‘energy conscious’ in their homes and save energy. Yet it was announced on the news today, that Buckingham Palace will be floodlit from dusk to midnight with low energy floodlights for the duration of the Queen’s reign so that tourists can view the building. The sop to saving energy being the low energy floodlights. Low energy lights or not they still use energy without just cause.

Tourists travel half way round the world to see Buck Palace - and jambutty would like to see "office hours only viewing!:rolleyes: "

"The government is trying to encourage people to be ‘energy conscious’ in their homes and save energy." These were YOUR words jambutty, the Government is "trying to encourage" which is entirely different to enforcing with legislation. If you feel so strongly about wasting electricity, why are you running your PC?:D No tourists would spend thousands of £££££££££'s to view your computer - unlike Buck House!
 
There are probably loads of lights left on all over the country by kids who switch them on when they go into a room but never switch them off again when they come out. That's a waste, at least floodlighting Buckinghm Place has some purpose.
 
Tourist spend money and create jobs
So it’s OK for Joe Public to cut down on his energy use just so that businesses in London can make extra profit steeljack. The god of money has spoken.

No reason for most folks to be out after midnight unless you are up to no good
Agreed but what about those who do have a legitimate reason for being out after midnight. Are they to trudge around in the dark and be vulnerable to the ne’er do wells. Burglars and other criminals would just love dark streets.

Do you have any proof that 25% of generated power is lost?
What do you mean by 'transit' and where is 25% of the electricty going?
Ask Jeeves to do a search for “Transformer losses” Neil and it will explain all.

That National Grid (those huge pylons striding across the countryside with wires slung between them) is the means of transporting the generated electricity to where it is required and in some cases the voltage is as high as 132,000 volts AC.

As Billcat has explained that all conductors offer some resistance to electrical current (unless the conductor is at absolute zero) but that is not all. There is the back EMF and transformer losses. Just think how hot your mobile phone charger gets and then try to imagine how hot a huge power transformer in a sub station would get although they are artificially cooled because otherwise they would get too hot.

When the power station generates the power it does not generate it at such high voltages for a variety of reason not least of which is insulation and safety. So the voltage has to be transformed up to that level for transportation and that is where there are power losses. It is more efficient to transport an electrical current at a very high voltage than the domestic 230v or industrial 440 volts three phase. Then that high voltage has to be transformed down to a useable value and there are even more losses. Depending on how many times the generated power is transformed to a higher value and then back down to a lower useable value will depend on the overall losses that can be up to 25%. Then there is the loss of when all the generated power is not used although to be fair the power stations are very good at maintaining a level of generated power that equates pretty closely to the demand but it is nearly always more.

The power losses are in the heat generated in the transformation from one voltage to another.

Now where did I say anything about “office hours viewing” Busman747? Nor did I mention anything about enforcing power saving by law.

It would help your view if you didn’t misquote people in some crass attempt to give that view credence.

I do my bit not to waste energy and if I want to run my PC, watch TV, run a washing machine etc it has got nothing to do with you. So stick your nose out!
 
The Electrified railways are Jambutty's pet hate and bio-fuel his pet alternative, as was discussed earlier in the year,


Use Less Electrical Energy.

I have a personal dislike of electrified railways but only from the point of view that all the overhead cabling looks untidy (but that is nothing to do with efficiency), Somehow 25% energy loss seems an extreme, as has already been mentioned all power supplies and cables suffer losses, but I suspect that the savings by having a few centralised generators would be of greater efficiency both in terms of power output and reduction of emissions than a system where each train is being pulled by an individual engine, perhaps if the 'bio-fuel' was used to power the generator plants, at least that would prevent the whole railway system from smelling like a chip shop?:)
 
If the Queen was a member of this site and she had seen the starting post of this thread would she have made a comment such as:-

"We do our bit not to waste energy and if we want to run our Floodlights to illuminate ones Palace it has got nothing to do with you. So stick ones nose out!"

If we all, 'stick our noses out', none of these threads are going to get very far are they?

Jambutty=I do my bit not to waste energy and if I want to run my PC, watch TV, run a washing machine etc it has got nothing to do with you. So stick your nose out!
 
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Much obliged for bringing to the fore, as you put it but I don’t, my pet hate and pet alternative Less. I’ve just read through that post again and I stand by what I wrote one hundred percent.

Without a doubt we are racing towards an energy crisis and the time to take action is now and not when it happens. We need to be self sufficient in energy production and not rely on foreign imports. Mineral oil is a finite commodity, as is natural gas and sooner or later there will not be any more. Unless some way can be found to use coal without the atmospheric pollution that burning coal produces it is a non-starter. Wind farms are OK whilst a wind blows. Solar panels are only useful in daylight hours. All other ways of generating electricity apart from hydro-electric schemes and nuclear are in their infancy and unless there is a major break through will never meet our needs.

To conserve what we have we need to use electricity to power things only where some other alternative cannot be used. Such as electrical appliances and lighting. There is a viable alternative to electrified railways if not quite as fast. Does it really matter if it takes half an hour longer to get from “A” to “B” by a non-electric train than it does by an electric train?

It has been proven that bio fuels powering a Diesel engine can take the place of fossil fuels, but the will is not there to go down that road. The oil and gas companies are too powerful. A Diesel engine can provide motive power direct to the wheels as in a car, bus, lorry etc or can drive a generator producing electricity. A locomotive uses a Diesel engine directly coupled to an electricity generator and it is the electric power that drives the motors that turn the locomotive wheels.

Once upon a time we did have local power stations, as the Huncoat power station and the one at the Accrington/Blackburn border for Blackburn will testify to, except they are not there anymore. They supplied their own towns and any surplus was siphoned off to the National Grid and when the town demand was above the town’s supply the National Grid supplied the shortfall. Thus the electricity transportation losses were minimal. But the god of profit stepped in.

You may consider that 25% losses to be extreme Less but have another read of my post #17. It explains how and why such losses can and do occur.

Which reminds me. Before anyone asks I think that I had better explain back EMF.

When a Direct Current is passed along a wire it creates a magnetic field around it. If another wire is passed through that magnetic field a current is induced in that wire. The same applies to an Alternating Current except that the magnetic field also alternates in that in one instant there is no magnetic field and one two hundredth of a second later it rise exponentially to maximum and in the next two hundredth of a second it falls exponentially back to no magnetic field and continues thus.

Whether the wire is moved through a magnetic field or the magnetic field is moved through the wire makes no difference, a current of lower value is still generated in that wire but it is 180 degrees out of phase with the original. However the wire carrying the initial current is also subject to the changing magnetic field and an opposite polarity current is generated in it. This current opposes and cancels out some of the original current.

So as an example, and please don’t take these figures literally, it is just an example to establish the principle. If a wire is carrying an alternating current of say 10 amps and it has a back EMF of 1 amp induced in it the overall effect is that only 9 amps flow. So to ensure that there are 10 amps available something like 11 amps would need to be generated at source. Thus the back EMF creates losses.
 
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