Small Beer?

[Less]

New commemorative beer set to go on sale in honour of Hyndburn MP's great-grandfather - Accrington Observer

Now, I have no reason to suppose our M.P.'s Great Granddad didn't do his duty, but, should he be commemorated in any special way? Surely all those that did their duty and therefore made the ultimate sacrifice deserve as much praise?

O.K. we can't name a beer after each and everyone, it would mean that none of us could drink that many beers, I'm sure Graham would agree, that rather than pick out one individual that did something far braver than I for one could do, it should be named after something all of us could raise just the occasional glass that considers all those that died for us?

(Lest we forget).

 

[Studio25]

O.K. we can't name a beer after each and everyone...

There's no technical reason why it can't be done. The name is just printed on the label, after all. Surely it can't be too difficult, or even expensive, to print a different hero's name on each label. As far as stock control computers are concerned, the barcode has the identifying information.

The biggest problem I can see is the numpty who tries to buy another bottle of "Private Thomas Abbott" and can't because the chance of meeting another of his bottles is one in several thousand.

(Only chose that name because it's the first on the list of Accrington Pals.)

 

[Less]

There's no technical reason why it can't be done. The name is just printed on the label, after all. Surely it can't be too difficult, or even expensive, to print a different hero's name on each label. As far as stock control computers are concerned, the barcode has the identifying information.

The biggest problem I can see is the numpty who tries to buy another bottle of "Private Thomas Abbott" and can't because the chance of meeting another of his bottles is one in several thousand.

(Only chose that name because it's the first on the list of Accrington Pals.)

Surely you are then naming a can or bottle after each of the fallen NOT a beer?

 

[Retlaw]

New commemorative beer set to go on sale in honour of Hyndburn MP's great-grandfather - Accrington Observer

Now, I have no reason to suppose our M.P.'s Great Granddad didn't do his duty, but, should he be commemorated in any special way? Surely all those that did their duty and therefore made the ultimate sacrifice deserve as much praise?

O.K. we can't name a beer after each and everyone, it would mean that none of us could drink that many beers, I'm sure Graham would agree, that rather than pick out one individual that did something far braver than I for one could do, it should be named after something all of us could raise just the occasional glass that considers all those that died for us?

(Lest we forget).

Those beer labels are designed by my daughter Cath from information supplied by me from my WW1 files, she's doing it to create funds for the Pals Centenary in 1916, so far there has been 9 different labels. WHY the sudden comments because some ones grandfather is on a label,
Those Pals Ales have been on sale at the house of commons for near 12 months, My uncle Walter is on one of the labels, he was the last of the original PALS to be killed in action.
Its a pity you lot have nowt else to do, other than critise her efforts to create funds for a good cause.
No wonder folks are deserting this site, she didn't get this responce on Facebook.
Soon there'l be no one left posting other that the football fanatics.

 

[Less]

It's a pity you think I was getting at someone you nowty old beggar, I just think picking individuals isn't the way to go when so many gave their all not a few individuals.

 

[Studio25]

Surely you are then naming a can or bottle after each of the fallen NOT a beer?

And that is a problem... why?

I think that for a lot of casual beer drinkers, there's not much difference between one beer and another. For example, I can't tell you the difference between Caffrey's and Bowland Gold even though I've had both in the past. I can't even say with any confidence that I'd be able to say which was which if I had a pint of each in front of me. (Which sounds like a good excuse for a scientific experiment at the local, later.)

...I just think picking individuals isn't the way to go when so many gave their all not a few individuals.

Fully agree. Well said.

 

[accyman]

MP got face in paper and free advertising for a beer thats proceeds go to charity

at least one good thing came out of it

 

[Retlaw]

It's a pity you think I was getting at someone you nowty old beggar, I just think picking individuals isn't the way to go when so many gave their all not a few individuals.

No wonder I'm a nowry owd begger when folk make daft comments.
Sorry our Cath didn't consult you for your expertise before she started the project.
So we can now look forward to you designing labels for the next batch of Pals Ales. You can post them on here when youve done.
If you go down Warner St you will see some of her other projects in shop windows, pictures of Accrington Heroes.

 

[Less]

No wonder I'm a nowry owd begger when folk make daft comments.
Sorry our Cath didn't consult you for your expertise before she started the project.
So we can now look forward to you designing labels for the next batch of Pals Ales. You can post them on here when youve done.
If you go down Warner St you will see some of her other projects in shop windows, pictures of Accrington Heroes.

I didn't apply expertise, I am using sentiment, all of the fallen gave their lives in the belief it was a just cause worthy of each and every sacrifice, please tell me if it's your research how you choose one name, one task in the struggle they went through that is better than the sacrifice the whole made?
No don't bother, I'll tell you something, no one man that gave his life in that conflict deserves more recognition than any other on a label of 'small beer', no matter how much research, no matter how much design your daughter put into a label, they all died so that we can be free, recognise that not your petty squabble.

 

[Retlaw]

I didn't apply expertise, Because you have none I am using sentiment, all of the fallen gave their lives in the belief it was a just cause worthy of each and every sacrifice, please tell me if it's your research yes it is my research how you choose one name, one task in the struggle they went through that is better than the sacrifice the whole made?
No don't bother, I'll tell you something, no one man that gave his life in that conflict deserves more recognition than any other on a label of 'small beer', no matter how much research, no matter how much design your daughter put into a label, they all died so that we can be free, recognise that not your petty squabble.

Once again you've shown why so many Accy Webbers have left this site, you can't resist poking at things you know nowt about. Out of the 12000 and some names of Accringon's Heroes in my file she has to pick some one, she' doing it for a reason. which you in your blind abusive manner can't see.
Mick if you read this please remove my name from the members list.

 

[Less]

I'm not poking, I'm putting forward an opinion, you are allowed to disagree with it, however those soldiers died so that I can put forward my sentiments, they tell me it's wrong to pick out individuals to be used for the sale of beer no matter what they did. Not on a moral ground, just because I think each one that died deserves equal recognition. Didn't they die so I can say this?

 

[Eric]

Maybe at some point one has to narrow things down. I don't think the fact that there is only one "Unknown Soldier" is an insult to all those lying in graves marked "Known Unto God." Or that the fact we have over here only one disabled child to represent the thousands of poor little sick kids in the Easter Seals campaign is a sign that they are being ignored. I don't consider myself unintelligent; but there are certain things I just can't wrap my head around: the horror of the trenches, the holocaust, the sexploitation of vulnerable kids ... and no doubt anyone can come up with lots more. The single image is a way of getting through that difficulty. Indeed, it may help focus the limited capabilities of the mind to handle the overload of millions of dead.

As a kind of aside, Captain Wilfred Owen of the Manchester Regiment was a keen photographer. He took many pics of the trenches in all their horror. But when he showed these to folks on the home front, they couldn't handle it, and preferred the fiction of glorious battle that the propagandists dished out. He found that short, vivid poems, concentrating on specific, limited incidents, and expressed in metaphor got his message over much more effectively.

By the way, let's not forget the wounded, like the guy who stands as my avatar, Private Albert Ashton of the King's Own, who lived for 30 years after the war; and every breath he drew was a painful reminder of Third Ypres. My own personal hero.

 

[Margaret Pilkington]

Once again you've shown why so many Accy Webbers have left this site, you can't resist poking at things you know nowt about. Out of the 12000 and some names of Accringon's Heroes in my file she has to pick some one, she' doing it for a reason. which you in your blind abusive manner can't see.
Mick if you read this please remove my name from the members list.

Retlaw, you know that I have great respect for you and for the work you do, but I do not believe you are such a petty man as to make an issue of this.
Less was just asking if it was right that some men are singled out while others who gave the same for their country(their lives) are not?
It is a valid question. He was not slighting anything that your Cath has designed at all.
I suppose on the plus side what Accyman has said about the publicity is true....and it does bring to mind sacrifices made by men of this area...but don't you think their deeds have been hijacked somewhat for a commercial enterprise?

If you choose to leave Accyweb for something which is so petty, then you are not the man I took you for. Do not take offence where no offence was meant(or at least that is how I construed the original post).
You are a better person than that.....and why do you feel the need to talk down Accyweb?
If it truly is such a bad place then silently walk away from it.....I for one would miss your input.

 

[Less]

Retlaw, you know that I have great respect for you and for the work you do, but I do not believe you are such a petty man as to make an issue of this.
Less was just asking if it was right that some men are singled out while others who gave the same for their country(their lives) are not?
It is a valid question. He was not slighting anything that your Cath has designed at all.
I suppose on the plus side what Accyman has said about the publicity is true....and it does bring to mind sacrifices made by men of this area...but don't you think their deeds have been hijacked somewhat for a commercial enterprise?

If you choose to leave Accyweb for something which is so petty, then you are not the man I took you for. Do not take offence where no offence was meant(or at least that is how I construed the original post).
You are a better person than that.....and why do you feel the need to talk down Accyweb?
If it truly is such a bad place then silently walk away from it.....I for one would miss your input.

Thank you Margaret, I meant no offence to anyone. I leant over backwards in my first post to try not to insult Graham Jones's great grandad, I truely admire what he and others did, I still don't however think anyone out of those men should be put forward for their name on 'small beer', each should be admired for giving their life to make ours safer.
I doubt I could have done the same.

 

[Less]

New commemorative beer set to go on sale in honour of Hyndburn MP's great-grandfather - Accrington Observer

Now, I have no reason to suppose our M.P.'s Great Granddad didn't do his duty, but, should he be commemorated in any special way? Surely all those that did their duty and therefore made the ultimate sacrifice deserve as much praise?

O.K. we can't name a beer after each and everyone, it would mean that none of us could drink that many beers, I'm sure Graham would agree, that rather than pick out one individual that did something far braver than I for one could do, it should be named after something all of us could raise just the occasional glass that considers all those that died for us?

(Lest we forget).

This is what I first posted, where is there an insult to the pals, Retlaw, or his daughter?
All I said and am still saying is we shouldn't pick any single person from the thousands that died.
When each deserves a label.

 

[Margaret Pilkington]

It isn't that they deserve a label, but that each of those brave men gets the recognition that their sacrifice warrants.
Personally, I think to use The Pals as an advertising stunt(because essentially that is what it is) devalues their bravery.
We should always remember them but not in this way to benefit a commercial venture

 

[Retlaw]

It isn't that they deserve a label, but that each of those brave men gets the recognition that their sacrifice warrants.
Personally, I think to use The Pals as an advertising stunt(because essentially that is what it is) devalues their bravery.
We should always remember them but not in this way to benefit a commercial venture

Margaret.
What got me was his post about the Pals Ales. If it had been anyone else in the Observer other than Grahm Jones nothing would have been said, he just can't resist having a dig.
One thing your wrong about, it is Not a Commercial venture, our Cath is trying to raise funds for the Pals commemoration for July 1st 1916.
There are some events going to take place in Accrington on that date which there is no other way to get funding, she's tried various funding organistations but they are not interested in much outside the Southern Counties. I am also tring to get new panels made for Accrington's War Memorial, there are 14 men named twice, 18 spelling mistake 2 men who did not die, and 9 Accrington Pals missing.
I have also created two books in memory of Bill Turner listing all the Pals Casualties July 1/5th 1916, the numbers bandied about on web sites are miles out, even the Battalion War diaries are wrong. These books are at present with a bookbinder and will be presented to the Mayors of Bapaume & Puisuex on July 1st 2016. All this has come out of my pocket, it hasn't cost the people of Acc anything. I sometimes wonder why I ever bothered to start all this work, when some one who should know better starts making snide comments, no matter how much they deny it. I know he's entitled to his opinions I just wish he would keep them to himself.

Rant over for now.

 

[Margaret Pilkington]

So is this beer being given away then...not being sold?
I did not mean that Caths input was commercial, just that the sale of beer is not appropriate to commemorate this brave band of men.

I appreciate that funding is required for events to take place and all power to Caths elbow in doing what she can to raise the public profile.
As for the work you are doing, well it is invaluable and you are to be commended for your efforts.....I really think that you are a star for doing everything you can to keep the flame of their memories alive...we should never forget these men.
Having said that........

I don't think the comments were snide and they definitely were not opinions.....it was a valid question being asked.
I think that offence was taken when none was meant...and it really isn't necessary.

You need not rant because you are speaking to the converted.

 

[Guinness]

I can see both sides of this argument..

Thing is.. if Walters lass had designed a label for Gunner Fred Bloggs Ale…it simply would not have got any publicity at all.

I’m always up front in having a go at our MP on here, twitter and facebook, but in this case, it’s a smart publicity move…MP gets a cute photo op and the fund gets a nice little boost..

However, this debate has shown me my ignorance….I thought we’d done the centenary in 2014.

Why is 2016 so significant? Because to be totally honest this is the first I’ve heard of a 2016 remembrance or that money is needed to make it happen…..

And how do I contribute a coupla quid to the fund?

 

[Margaret Pilkington]

I could be wrong...and I am sure that retlaw is the man to give you a definitive answer, but 2016 is centenary of the pals Casualties on the 1-5th of July of that year...in fact it says something like that in Retlaws post number 17.