Teachers...

[DaveinGermany]

Have standards of education risen, or have examinations become easier?

They have standards ???

My mate asked if I'd help his youngest with some of her school work a while back, as he's not that academical himself & he's fine with it, after looking at a few odds & ends I couldn't see any consistency with the marking. The teacher would pick up some errors, yet in the same paragraph there were other glaring mistakes which went unchallenged. I asked about why they'd not been pointed out & corrected, "Oh, miss so&so, isn't bothered by that !" Come again ?

So the nippers in this class are heading out into the wider World, already at a disadvantage due to the lack of correction (ability ?) of teaching staff & the longer it goes on the more ingrained the mistakes become & it's then harder for the child to rectify their ways.

 

[Gordon Booth]

It's astonishing, isn't it, how Darwins Theory of Evolution has gone into overdrive over the last 30 years? The exam results show that our teenagers brainpower, mental capacity and ability to learn have increased more in the last 30 years than they did in the last 100,000.
Yet the universities and employers still complain that far too many of them can't read,write or do maths properly. How can that be?
It's not fair to our children to encourage them to think they are academically gifted far above the reality when gifts they genuinely have are ignored.
Our education system, from the teachers up to the govermnent are guilty of deception on a massive scale.

 

[garinda]

I've posted before that I think they've become easier.

Evidenced by doing both an O-level, then a G.C.S.E. in mathematics, separated by a twenty odd year gap.

I firmly believe that a pass in the old eleven-plus test equates to a lower class degree award today.

 

[garinda]

It's astonishing, isn't it, how Darwins Theory of Evolution has gone into overdrive over the last 30 years? The exam results show that our teenagers brainpower, mental capacity and ability to learn have increased more in the last 30 years than they did in the last 100,000.
Yet the universities and employers still complain that far too many of them can't read,write or do maths properly. How can that be?
It's not fair to our children to encourage them to think they are academically gifted far above the reality when gifts they genuinely have are ignored.
Our education system, from the teachers up to the govermnent are guilty of deception on a massive scale.

Equal opportunities again.

Starts at sports day, with 'everyone's a winner'.

Ends when final examinations are awarded, and suprise, everyone's a genius.

 

[Eric]

Question for teachers.

Concerning the annual increase of students' qualifications, and grades.

Have standards of education risen, or have examinations become easier, over the last thirty or so years?

An interesting question. I haven't been involved in the public school system ... ("public school" doesn't mean what it does in the UK ... it refers to the government funded elementary, junior high, and high schools, grades kindergarten to 12) ... for several years now, but I do have some knowledge of the kind of student who is now arriving at university. Once again (and I know I have a bug up my ass about it), political correctness seems to be a culprit in the deterioration of standards of the kids who enter university. Kids are passed on from one grade to the next even if they don't pass. One doesn't want to hurt their feelings by making them feel inadequate ... making examinations easier is one way that the system deals with failure. So, what do we get in first year university? Semi-literates who will be allowed to struggle through university, and end up with a meaningless **** - poor degree.

Several years ago, when I allowed myself to be talked into teaching English 110 (entry level ... Beowulf to Virginia Woolfe) the irate parent of a failing idiot airhead bimbo (now that's a little politically incorrect) phoned me and told me that her daughter had to pass because she (the mother) had forked over thousands of dollars so that her daughter could go to university. I politely informed her that if her daughter wished to pass the course, she might try attending classes, doing the required assignments, and passing the mid-term exams. Neither mother nor daughter got the point.

Failure is always an option. Ironically, it is what makes us successful as a species ... failure and taking risks is what we are about. It's how we learn. Chasing a mammoth off the edge of a cliff is no doubt risky; but it sure beats the hell out of starving to extinction. Let's face the bitter truth; some folks are just not cut out for the academic route. Doesn't mean that they don't have opportunities: they could have a good life as a teacher or a tory politician.

 

[Roadhousezamora]

Question for teachers.

Concerning the annual increase of students' qualifications, and grades.

Have standards of education risen, or have examinations become easier, over the last thirty or so years?

I'm only starting my 5th year of teaching so can't comment brilliantly on the situation but from my experience there seems to be more pressure on teachers from the leadership teams at schools. Schools are desperate to do well in the league tables as well producing a score over 1000 for their value added. This has in my opinion forced teachers to focus completely on making sure the pupils pass the exam and to ignore what the teacher feels may benefit said pupil in the real world. This may also explain universities and employers complaining of pupils who are unable to think for themselves. Pupils are trained to pass exams and nothing more.

I will also say that the introduction of modular exams with sections of multiple choice answers makes it easy for me as a teacher to guarantee marks for my pupils along with coursework which is left to the classroom teachers to oversee, mark and submit.

I'm not sure what the emphasis was 30 years ago, if others could let me know i'd be interested to listen.

 

[Gordon Booth]

Schools are desperate to do well in the league tables as well producing a score over 1000 for their value added.
I'm not sure what the emphasis was 30 years ago, if others could let me know i'd be interested to listen.

See what you've done, Roadhouse. You've got us all worked up and we're all going to have to have an extra pill(or whatever our fancy).

A score of over 1000 for VALUE ADDED? You mean we can sell these kids? Is that £'s or euros?Dollars would be better, please. This is where it goes wrong, you say that as if it was part of the true purpose of education. You also are now a product of the system.(Not meant in a rude way).
30 years ago it was 'Those who can do, those who can't quickly and forcefully get told so and moved on'.Those who only JUST could(like me) were pushed, pursued,concentrated on to do their best and NOTHING was done to delude them or make it all seem easy.

 

[Gordon Booth]

Hey, Eric, you're not bad for a colonial(i.e. I think you agree with me).
Your post' coming from an (ex?)academic, has more weight than that of we non-academics. But surely you're not saying even Canada has gone down the same road we have? I thought Canadians were realists with their feet firmly on the ground?

 

[garinda]

I was recently asked to speak to an old lecturer's current students.

She said teaching now was awfully depressing, and she was glad to be retiring this year.

I was told that compared to when she taught me, and was able to nurture creativity and free thinking, her hands were tied by red tape and bureauracy.

It all seemed very sad.

 

[Eric]

I'm only starting my 5th year of teaching so can't comment brilliantly on the situation but from my experience there seems to be more pressure on teachers from the leadership teams at schools. Schools are desperate to do well in the league tables as well producing a score over 1000 for their value added. This has in my opinion forced teachers to focus completely on making sure the pupils pass the exam and to ignore what the teacher feels may benefit said pupil in the real world. This may also explain universities and employers complaining of pupils who are unable to think for themselves. Pupils are trained to pass exams and nothing more.

I will also say that the introduction of modular exams with sections of multiple choice answers makes it easy for me as a teacher to guarantee marks for my pupils along with coursework which is left to the classroom teachers to oversee, mark and submit.

I'm not sure what the emphasis was 30 years ago, if others could let me know i'd be interested to listen.

Well, here we go: "leadership teams", "league tables", "modular exams", "emphasis" ... just a bunch of jargon As Hamlet says: "Words, words, words." I realize that a lot of us olde fartes are into the ubi sunt thing, yearning for the golden years that probably weren't all that golden; but the education system we went through did its job ok. All you old Accy Grammar lads remember "Ben" Johnson, "Sam" Wignall, "Pug" Portno, "Jock" Bentley ... old fashioned doesn't come close to describing them. And they were more than a tad politically incorrect. But look what came out of that bastion of beatings and clips round the ear ... was poor John Wallwork terrified into failure? Did "Jock" Bentley brutally destroy John Virtue's creativity. We knew that it was up to us to succeed or fail. We were given both opportunities. I could have done a lot better at school. But I was, and still am, lazy. I like to take the easy route. I know that, and I knew it then. I didn't blame E. J. "Gobbin" Owen for my poor showing in Algebra ... I blame myself, took resposibility for my actions, or inaction.

But even though I consider much of my life to be a catalogue of missed and wasted opportunity, I still managed to struggle through to be Dr. Eric, B.Ed, B.A. (Hons., magnis cum honoribus), (Sask.), M.A., Ph.D (Queen's), Bar Tender, Cab Driver.

 

[garinda]

It's been commented on before, how well educated more elderly people are.

Despite leaving school at fourteen, or younger, if you go back to our grandparents' generation.

Suggesting perhaps, that a more rounded academic education was successfully packed in to a shorter time frame.

 

[Gordon Booth]

But even though I consider much of my life to be a catalogue of missed and wasted opportunity, I still managed to struggle through to be Dr. Eric, B.Ed, B.A. (Hons., magnis cum honoribus), (Sask.), M.A., Ph.D (Queen's), Bar Tender, Cab Driver.

Now you've spoilt it, showing off like a colonial! Cab driver indeed.
Wouldnt mind being a bar tender, though.
I can run a longer list than that, but it wasn't easy and no-one ever tried to kid me it would be.
I didn't grow up thinking my genius hadn't been recognised or appreciated like some of the young ones are doing-that's unfair to them.

 

[DaveinGermany]

I'm not sure what the emphasis was 30 years ago, if others could let me know i'd be interested to listen.

You were sat in a class & were taught, given the relevant information to use & take on board, it was then down to the individual to assimilate & draw the required information to pass or fail any tests that were set.

Discipline was instilled & used as required by means available & allowed to the teaching staff with the backing of the parents. Disruption & insolence weren't tolerated or accepted, rules were adhered to or the consequences followed & all knew where they stood.

We had winners & losers, those that worked hard usually achieved those who didn't failed, that was quite simply the way life was, if you didn't want to end up on some factory/workshop floor doing low paid labour intensive work, then you bucked your ideas up & knuckled down, it really was that simple. To strive to achieve had a purpose & rewards, but today it appears immaterial, as the state will support you so why make an effort ?

 

[garinda]

I was in one of the two 'thick classes', and proud of it.

 

[Eric]

It's good to keep in mind that it wasn't just the school ... our parents, even in my dysfunctional set up, supported the schools and what went on in them. You didn't go home, whining that big, bad "Ben" Johnson had administered six of the very best on your ass ... well, not unless you wanted a backhander When the report card came home with Ben's infamous red lines all over it, the folks didn't blame the teachers for not stimulating their little darlings. They knew where the blame lay. They didn't complain about the teachers not doing their jobs.

 

[Less]

Sorry, I don't need to spell too well in Science I just draw pictures and point...

That is a comment I love, as well as being in charge of 3 apprentices officialy, making sure they got through their exams, also looking after the ones that so called 'tradesmen' had given up on, I have also helped many relatives to become Electronics engineers as well, one of the things I always did was correct their spelling, not because I had to, but it made it easier for the examiner.

It just happened to be that if I'm teaching them, why not make sure they have the maximum of the knowledge I have?

I had a bloody good Science teacher, if my report on an experiment didn't have a decent idea of the English language he made me do it again, now it seems, putting in the extra mile isn't what a teacher will do,

I don't need to spell too well

it's what those of us lucky enough and keen enough have to show these young people can do. (After they have been through the school system).

 

[Eric]

That is a comment I love, as well as being in charge of 3 apprentices officialy, making sure they got through their exams, also looking after the ones that so called 'tradesmen' had given up on, I have also helped many relatives to become Electronics engineers as well, one of the things I always did was correct their spelling, not because I had to, but it made it easier for the examiner.

It just happened to be that if I'm teaching them, why not make sure they have the maximum of the knowledge I have?

I had a bloody good Science teacher, if my report on an experiment didn't have a decent idea of the English language he made me do it again, now it seems, putting in the extra mile isn't what a teacher will do, it's what those of us lucky enough and keen enough have to show these young people can do. (After they have been through the school system).

Look at the bright side. At least he didn't write "don't spell too good."

 

[DaveinGermany]

What people are saying tends to take on more significance when you read things like this :-

Teachers 'falsifying pupils' marks' to inflate school results - Telegraph

 

[Eric]

What people are saying tends to take on more significance when you read things like this :-

Teachers 'falsifying pupils' marks' to inflate school results - Telegraph

Seems like it's about folks keeping their jobs. Teachers, school administrators, politicians, they all have a vested interest in high marks. Whether or not those marks are justified is irrelevant. And the kids? Now, they are smart enough to realize what is going down. They are smart; they clue in real quick. One thing that kids do when they go to school ... and you can all remember doing it ... is find out where the line is; how far they can go; how little they have to do to get by. The whole system needs to be re-thought ... it's downright busted and can't be tinkered with. In fact, I believe it's time to stop thinking of education as a "system".

 

[Eric]

Hey, Eric, you're not bad for a colonial(i.e. I think you agree with me).
Your post' coming from an (ex?)academic, has more weight than that of we non-academics. But surely you're not saying even Canada has gone down the same road we have? I thought Canadians were realists with their feet firmly on the ground?

I do believe it was DaveinGermany who came up with one of the better descriptions of Canadians ... he said that we are so laid back, we are almost comatose.