The Coppice

[garinda]

Has anyone got any info on how the name "coppice" or "the coppice" came about?

I realise that on the face of it that sounds like a stupid question, but hear me out The word coppice normally refers to a managed wooded area - however, I was reading something the other day that suggested the name was in use well before the current lot of trees were planted.

A place called Coppice without any trees seems very odd, or am I missing something? Can anyone shed any light on this?

Was discussed in the last few pages of this thread.

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f66/making-sculptures-to-go-on-the-coppice-59646.html

 

[susie123]

Crikey that does make me feel old. I can remember calling it the Coppice long before those trees were planted.

But then you're only a slip of a lad, Pudwoppa, you wouldn't remember that far back...

 

[Retlaw]

There is no mention of a Coppice in early documents, this is one from the Coucher book of Kirkstall Abbey, its one of the oldest relating to Accrington, dated 1190, several names are still in use today. The boundary's are very close to the present day Accrington
Retlaw

 

[steve2qec]

Looks interesting, have you got a translation?

 

[cashman]

Looks interesting, have you got a translation?

Ask the council Steve,they renamed us Hyndburn.......seems they couldn't even spell it right.

 

[Retlaw]

Ask the council Steve,they renamed us Hyndburn.......seems they couldn't even spell it right.

They can't spell Huncoyte reight aythur.
Its Huncote not Huncoat. Who ever spelt it as Huncoat wants gelding.
As for Hindeburn thats self explanitory
Retlaw.

 

[Eric]

Looks interesting, have you got a translation?

Just a bunch of stuff about Robert de Laci and his old lady, Isobel. with conventional comments about God and Real Estate ... it's only Latin ... maybe medieval clerical Latin, which would explain some of the weird constructions that would have got me in trouble in Latin class if I had come up with them. My Latin is a little rusty ... and right now I don't have the time to come up with a coherent translation, even though documents like this tend to be pretty formulaic.

 

[Pudwoppa]

Was discussed in the last few pages of this thread.

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f66/making-sculptures-to-go-on-the-coppice-59646.html

The link to Roy's Huncoat site makes for interesting reading. The mention of photographs in 1848 of the coppice seems very early... may have to enquire about those. I thought photography was very rare in the area at this point (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong ).

The earlier date of the name and the material I was reading make sense together if the area was used for coppicing earlier than the twentieth century - that's what I was looking for - thanks. The population boom at that time could explain why it disappeared.

But then you're only a slip of a lad, Pudwoppa, you wouldn't remember that far back...

Tis true; my childhood was spent playing 'manhunt' and building dens in those trees. Glad it wasn't bare slopes to be honest - 'run up and down the hill' as a game would have worn thin with me I think

 

[garinda]

The link to Roy's Huncoat site makes for interesting reading. The mention of photographs in 1848 of the coppice seems very early... may have to enquire about those. I thought photography was very rare in the area at this point (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong ).

By the 1840's photography wasn't uncommon.

We've got family portrait photographs dating from that decade.

It is rarer to have landscape photographs from that period.

I've no doubt the details on the site are correct, they usually are, especially dating the photograph to a specific year.

I'd love to see it.

Has anyone on here seen it, or knows where it is?

 

[Retlaw]

Just a bunch of stuff about Robert de Laci and his old lady, Isobel. with conventional comments about God and Real Estate ... it's only Latin ... maybe medieval clerical Latin, which would explain some of the weird constructions that would have got me in trouble in Latin class if I had come up with them. My Latin is a little rusty ... and right now I don't have the time to come up with a coherent translation, even though documents like this tend to be pretty formulaic.

Your right about the latin bit Eric, there are some 4 or 5 documents relating to Accrington in the Coucher Book of Kirkstall, when I was translating them, I couldn't find some of the words in any latin dictionary, met a high ranking Catholic, who said some of the words were church Latin, usually found in ancient Roman Catholic Church documents, he interpreted those words for me.
Retlaw.

 

[Pudwoppa]

By the 1840's photography wasn't uncommon.

We've got family portrait photographs dating from that decade.

It is rarer to have landscape photographs from that period.

I thought commercially available cameras were mid 1840's onwards, and weren't widely available for a few years - I must have my dates muddled. I'm very happy to be wrong on that; hopefully it means there are more early photos hovering around that I haven't seen yet.

 

[Retlaw]

I thought commercially available cameras were mid 1840's onwards, and weren't widely available for a few years - I must have my dates muddled. I'm very happy to be wrong on that; hopefully it means there are more early photos hovering around that I haven't seen yet.

The inventor of the first negative from which multiple postive prints were made was Henry Fox Talbot, an English botanist and mathematician and a contemporary of Daguerre.
Talbot sensitized paper to light with a silver salt solution. He then exposed the paper to light. The background became black, and the subject was rendered in gradations of grey. This was a negative image, and from the paper negative, Talbot made contact prints, reversing the light and shadows to create a detailed picture. In 1841, he perfected this paper-negative process and called it a calotype, Greek for beautiful picture.
Would take a while for Fox Talbots invention to reach Accrington, & be used for taking views, more profit in studio portraites.
Retlaw

 

[garinda]

Taken in France, 1838.

Taken in Britain, 1840.

New Jesrsey, taken 1849.

 

[Eric]

There is no mention of a Coppice in early documents, this is one from the Coucher book of Kirkstall Abbey, its one of the oldest relating to Accrington, dated 1190, several names are still in use today. The boundary's are very close to the present day Accrington
Retlaw

Just reread ... or tried to ... the document. The date, 1190, must have some significance. At this time Richard Cordelion was drumming up support for his foreign adventures (I believe that "Crusade" is now politically incorrect). He was settling things down in England ... sort of covering his ass while he was away. I think I might do a little digging into de Lacy ... and to other regions in the North, considering that dispositions would have had to be made against the Scots.

 

[Retlaw]

Just reread ... or tried to ... the document. The date, 1190, must have some significance. At this time Richard Cordelion was drumming up support for his foreign adventures Richard I only lived in England about 3 months(I believe that "Crusade" is now politically incorrect). He was settling things down in England ... sort of covering his ass while he was away. I think I might do a little digging into de Lacy ... and to other regions in the North, considering that dispositions would have had to be made against the Scots.

I've already reseached the de Laci line, the last male heir to the de Laci holdings died in 1193, his cousin Aubrey inherited his estates, she married a Robert FitzEustace. Their son John changed his name to de Laci. His Grandson was Henry de Laci Earl of Lincoln. The estates then passed into the hands of Alice the daughter of Henry, she marrried Thomas Earl of Lancaster, nephew of Edward II, Thomas was executed for treason in 1322, and the lands were handed over to Edward II, they have been Crown Lands ever since.
Changing your name doesn't make you a true de Laci, by the time Thomas got topped their was only 1/16th of the original blood line of the de Laci's left. Retlaw.

 

[Eric]

I've already reseached the de Laci line, the last male heir to the de Laci holdings died in 1193, his cousin Aubrey inherited his estates, she married a Robert FitzEustace. Their son John changed his name to de Laci. His Grandson was Henry de Laci Earl of Lincoln. The estates then passed into the hands of Alice the daughter of Henry, she marrried Thomas Earl of Lancaster, nephew of Edward II, Thomas was executed for treason in 1322, and the lands were handed over to Edward II, they have been Crown Lands ever since.
Changing your name doesn't make you a true de Laci, by the time Thomas got topped their was only 1/16th of the original blood line of the de Laci's left. Retlaw.

Interesting ... ta

 

[Retlaw]

Interesting ... ta

Found the documents when I visited the P.R.O, when it was in Chancery Lane some 35 years ago.
Accrington's Mayoral Chain is supposed to have the de Laci coat of arms on part of it, thats a load of bull.
The de Laci coat of arms never changed from the one, when Ilbert de Laci came over with William the Conquerer, to when Thomas got topped, there are dark green wax seals on some of the documents, with the same coat of arms as Ilberts coat of arms.
Retlaw.