The Pope
- Thread starter grego
- Start date
I guess maybe I have a different attitude to death since I had to tell my daughters about their father's death when they were only 10 and 7. I've never hidden death from either of them - they have "paid their last respects" to deceased relatives and been grateful for the opportunity to have done so. Death doesn't worry them, neither do they fear it. There's an interesting article in today's Daily Mail about how we hide death in the "civilised" world and it becomes such a taboo and frightening subject whereas other cultures are far more accepting and open about it.
Doug said:
I wonder why they did it that way? Normally you would expect a "lying in state" and people to file by in homage. Maybe they thought the crowds were just too large or something. I do agree that it would have been more dignified that way.
WillowTheWhisp said:
Maybe I want to hide DEAD BODIES away from my kids because, when I saw my nan (first dead body I had seen) at the age of 17 years old, I could not get the image out of my head and even dreamed about her everynight led dead in her coffin. Some thing I CAN protect my children with and that is seeing things like that, well until the news decided that EVERYONE including my kids should see the popes dead body. Yes doug I sgree with you it is undignified the way that they have delt with the body of the pope. And vorlon you are right 'i too believed that my parents would be around for ever'. I remember getting to about 13 years old and having the devistating realisation that 'THEY WON'T', and it hit hard for a couple of days.
Not only are children not comfortable with seeing dead bodies I know some adults that don't either (sorry tinks) but tinks is one of them. I am not sure if she saw it on the news but she has a genuin fear of seeing a dead body and, could not even go and say goodbye to our nan and grandad (which was hard) so people that have fears of seeing dead bodies had it forced on them yesterday if they was watching the news, which isn't right.
I can see what you're saying slinky. I've never previously come across anyone who was afraid of seeing a dead body. Maybe it's just they way we are brought up and what we are familiar with.
I found it far more undignified and tasteless when the press printed photos of the people dead and dying in the tsunami and other disasters. To photograph them as they suffered and died was certainly OTT and uncalled for.
I found it far more undignified and tasteless when the press printed photos of the people dead and dying in the tsunami and other disasters. To photograph them as they suffered and died was certainly OTT and uncalled for.
That would be awful wouldn't it?
I find it difficult to reconcile the Press and the Media calling the Pope "Great" and praising his dignity and bravery and then constantly force feeding us these distressing images.We don't need to see the photos to know he is gone.I think a lot of it is to because the last time a Pope died we didn't have 24 hour news and no way would the Vatican have been sending out health reports by text.It's a sign of the times and we can expect more of the same when other prominent people pass away.Oh ,by the way I am not religious but my condolences to my Catholic friends.
The reasons for the complex ceremonial surrounding the death of the Pope are a result of doctrine and history. The papal succession was not always as orderly and civilised as it is today. Up until the seventeenth century it was not unusual for political factions to try to usurp papal authority, you have to remember that the pontificate conferred temporal power as well as great wealth. On the death of the Pope one of the first things to happen is that the ring he is given at his election, with which he seals church documents, is broken so that no one can misuse it to falsify documents.
Another important function of the funeral is to show to the faithful, the corpse of the Pontiff, to prove that he is in fact dead and that the papal throne is empty; In Sede Vacante, so that they are not lead into error by anyone who might attempt to usurp the Papal authority.
Christians believe, or should believe, that death is merely the transition from earthly life into immortal life. It is not something to be feared, rather it is something to be celebrated. This is the reason we hold wakes and believe in giving the deceased "a good send off"
There can be nothing embarrasing or unpalatable in explaining a basic fact of life to our children. If anything the sooner they get used to the idea the better. What is strange and odd however, is to want to cosset them and conceal the truth of their condition from them. How does this prepare them for life?
The preservation of tokens or relics of the dead is an activity that is as old as humanity, photography is merely an extension of this.
Another important function of the funeral is to show to the faithful, the corpse of the Pontiff, to prove that he is in fact dead and that the papal throne is empty; In Sede Vacante, so that they are not lead into error by anyone who might attempt to usurp the Papal authority.
Christians believe, or should believe, that death is merely the transition from earthly life into immortal life. It is not something to be feared, rather it is something to be celebrated. This is the reason we hold wakes and believe in giving the deceased "a good send off"
There can be nothing embarrasing or unpalatable in explaining a basic fact of life to our children. If anything the sooner they get used to the idea the better. What is strange and odd however, is to want to cosset them and conceal the truth of their condition from them. How does this prepare them for life?
The preservation of tokens or relics of the dead is an activity that is as old as humanity, photography is merely an extension of this.
Acrylic-bob said:
This is exactly where I'm coming from A-b.
We had a great celebratory funeral for my late husband and children were welcome to attend. Most of the people he and I knew felt the same way and it wasn't odd for them to bring their children along. The service wasn't morbid at all it was full of joy at having known him with people sharing anecdotes most of them humorous. My older daughter's best friend who practically lived at our house at the time (came here after school, often had her tea here etc when she went to Spring Hill CP) asked if she could come (even though her mother didn't because she didn't know him as well.) It was that kind of funeral.
We had some songs that he'd loved sung by our choir and as I'm a member I joined in too.
I actually asked a friend who helped prepare his body for burial if he would get me a lock of hair to keep. It seemed crazy that I had thrown away so much hair when I'd previously cut my husband's hair for him and then to have a liittle curl was so important to me. So I suppose that was my version of a relic.
As far as the girls were and are concerned their Dad had no more use for his earthly body and had moved on to some exciting adventure that they'll be able to share in one day and look forward to. Death isn't something I fear and most of my friends are the same which is why I didn't understand that some people are even afraid of the sight of a deceased person. Another good reason for being able to discuss these things on here so that we widen our horizons and see things from a different perspective.
WillowTheWhisp said:
I didn't mind Sklinky mentioning it earlier but I wasn't going to reply.
I can't speak for any body else that is afraid of seeing a deceased body but mine is just an irrational fear, it's a phobia. Some people fear things like balloons and everybody thinks thats wierd. I can't explain I am just terrified, I even feel funny typing about it
I am a strange one at times I know!
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Well that's the value of AccyWeb because without discussing it here we'd never know we had such differing views.
I have a slight phobia about confined spaces. It isn't too debilitating but I just couldn't cope to be in a small space (no good me taking up potholing) I couldn't go through a low deep archway but it isn't that bad that I can't watch other people doing it.
Our best man's wife's balloon phobia seems to be to the extent of not even being able to be in the same pub let alone the same room as them which is a real problem for our wedding reception and we haven't found a solution to that yet.
I have a slight phobia about confined spaces. It isn't too debilitating but I just couldn't cope to be in a small space (no good me taking up potholing) I couldn't go through a low deep archway but it isn't that bad that I can't watch other people doing it.
Our best man's wife's balloon phobia seems to be to the extent of not even being able to be in the same pub let alone the same room as them which is a real problem for our wedding reception and we haven't found a solution to that yet.
Oh, Willow, I feel just the same. I'm not a Christian, in the strictest sense of the word, though I have my own private beliefs. When my husband died 9 years ago, suddenly and unexpectedly, I did the same as you and had a funeral to celebrate him with a quite humourous eulogy from his best friend. It was, mainly, a secular funeral so I had secular music played - Glenn Miller and George Gershwin, as a matter of fact, because that was OUR music. My grandson, who was incredibly close to him, was only 10 at the time but he was there. He tried so hard not to cry for his Grampa, in public, but the funeral was cathartic for him. I couldn't let him see Colin, after he had died, because the cause was meningitis and it ravages the body so, for Peter, a ceremony that celebrated his beloved Gramps was important, as it was for my children with their dad.
Funerals are for the Living. They are a necessary way of expressing grief and celebrating a life. We are all going to die one day, it's part of life. Don't hide it away.
Funerals are for the Living. They are a necessary way of expressing grief and celebrating a life. We are all going to die one day, it's part of life. Don't hide it away.
Tinkerbelle said:I didn't mind Sklinky mentioning it earlier but I wasn't going to reply.
I can't speak for any body else that is afraid of seeing a deceased body but mine is just an irrational fear, it's a phobia. Some people fear things like balloons and everybody things thats wierd. I can't explain I am just terrified, I even feel funny typing about it
Lots of people go through this Tinkerbelle, it's quite common. I don’t think your strange, well maybe a little, but that what makes you, you…….
WillowTheWhisp said:
Sorry Willow I forgot about your friends phobia of balloons I didn't intentionally reference her. My mother-in-law is also fearful of ballons but her fear is that they will burst, now to me that seems really strange. The only solution I can think of is having a balloon free area set aside for her maybe?
West Ender said:
I totally agree with you West Ender, I went to the funerals celebrated and grieved but I don't have to remember my loved ones in a coffin (shudder) I still get to remember their smiling faces and how they were which comforts me. I think death and grieving is a personal experience and people deal with it individually.
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Tinkerbelle said:
Excuse the slight thread wander. We planned a balloon free region where she could still see the rest of us but not have to sit near any balloons but even that it seems is too close to balloons for her to cope with. Not even sure she can manage to sit outside knowing that they are inside. I can understand a fear of them bursting but this is more than that.
Ah well, maybe we'll find some solution.