There's something very wrong here

jaysay said:
Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | UK News :: £500 a week? I get more on benefits!-

There is something very wrong with our system, when this is allowed to happen:mad::mad::mad:
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A few months ago you started this thread
http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f69/somehing-very-wrong-in-this-country-52731.html#post806048

I replied then thus -
National Assistance (now Income Support) once had a payment limit known as
The Wage Stop.
This was a very complex calculation that we civil servants dreaded having to do.
The basis of it was the wage of a local council labourer.

Applying it ensured that where a large number of children would cause the 'normal' calculation to provide for a high rate of payment of National Assistance, then this Wage Stop would limit it to what that family could receive if the 'breadwinner' was employed as a council labourer.

After studies into 'child poverty', that rule was abolished in 1975


 
If you design a system where people are better off not working don't be suprised if people don't bother to go to work
 
MargaretR said:
A few months ago you started this thread
http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f69/somehing-very-wrong-in-this-country-52731.html#post806048

I replied then thus -
National Assistance (now Income Support) once had a payment limit known as
The Wage Stop.
This was a very complex calculation that we civil servants dreaded having to do.
The basis of it was the wage of a local council labourer.

Applying it ensured that where a large number of children would cause the 'normal' calculation to provide for a high rate of payment of National Assistance, then this Wage Stop would limit it to what that family could receive if the 'breadwinner' was employed as a council labourer.

After studies into 'child poverty', that rule was abolished in 1975
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Well fine Margaret but when a guy turns down £500 a week job because he gets more in handouts, ain't it time to stop his benefits and make the dozy sod get off his arse and take the blood job:mad:
 
Wholesale reform, wholesale reform.....

The country is on its knees because more was coming out than was being put back in and yet here we are with a gaping flaw in the system which no one seems to want to fix because of human rights issues.

The system is inherently wrong and sooner or later we're going to hit serious problems. Virtually everyone on my street is not working for one reason or another and yet they all seem to live more active social lives than I can afford to do.

Either I've got it right by working for everything I own or I've got it spectacularly wrong.
 
Ken Moss said:
Wholesale reform, wholesale reform.....

The country is on its knees because more was coming out than was being put back in and yet here we are with a gaping flaw in the system which no one seems to want to fix because of human rights issues.

The system is inherently wrong and sooner or later we're going to hit serious problems. Virtually everyone on my street is not working for one reason or another and yet they all seem to live more active social lives than I can afford to do.

Either I've got it right by working for everything I own or I've got it spectacularly wrong.
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I can agree with you to a certain degree Ken, but not everybody is a scrounger, there are 2.5 million people receiving incapacity benefits of some sort or other in this country, yet when the reform or the welfare system was muted by the present government Labour and Mancie shout they were attacking the most vulnerable in society. I happen to be one of those 2.5 Million and I have no qualms what-so-ever of going before any doctor or tribunal to verify my poor health, and neither should anybody else. Anybody who is receiving state benefits because of incapacity have nothing to worry about, its only those (who we regularly read about in the press and see on TV news reports) who are swinging it that need to be concerned and we all know there are plenty of those ;)
 
jaysay said:
I can agree with you to a certain degree Ken, but not everybody is a scrounger, there are 2.5 million people receiving incapacity benefits of some sort or other in this country, yet when the reform or the welfare system was muted by the present government Labour and Mancie shout they were attacking the most vulnerable in society. I happen to be one of those 2.5 Million and I have no qualms what-so-ever of going before any doctor or tribunal to verify my poor health, and neither should anybody else. Anybody who is receiving state benefits because of incapacity have nothing to worry about, its only those (who we regularly read about in the press and see on TV news reports) who are swinging it that need to be concerned and we all know there are plenty of those ;)
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Of course not John, and apologies if you think I'm trying to imply that everyone on benefits is a scrounger, but if you can happily trot to the off licence every 'pay day' and get into very loud fights at 2am on Saturday night, waking up everyone on the street up in the process, you can bloody well work for a living.

Having met you, I don't think there is a soul alive who would tell you to get off your lazy backside and earn your crust. You're a genuine case and there are plenty of them in England. I have a bloke from Rishton working on my house at the moment who is skilled and doing a fine job but going out of his mind sat at home every day with no regular income.

Those are the people I feel truly sorry for and who the system should be there to support. Anyone who refuses three suitable job offers should be denied benefits and the system should be reformed so that sitting at home can no longer be classed as carrying on the family business.

The marvellous Disability Living Allowance has allowed thousands of able-bodied people to swing the lead whilst tarring the genuinely disabled with a bad name.
 
Ken Moss said:
Of course not John, and apologies if you think I'm trying to imply that everyone on benefits is a scrounger, but if you can happily trot to the off licence every 'pay day' and get into very loud fights at 2am on Saturday night, waking up everyone on the street up in the process, you can bloody well work for a living.

Having met you, I don't think there is a soul alive who would tell you to get off your lazy backside and earn your crust. You're a genuine case and there are plenty of them in England. I have a bloke from Rishton working on my house at the moment who is skilled and doing a fine job but going out of his mind sat at home every day with no regular income.

Those are the people I feel truly sorry for and who the system should be there to support. Anyone who refuses three suitable job offers should be denied benefits and the system should be reformed so that sitting at home can no longer be classed as carrying on the family business.

The marvellous Disability Living Allowance has allowed thousands of able-bodied people to swing the lead whilst tarring the genuinely disabled with a bad name.
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We are definitely both singing from the same hymn sheet Ken
 
jaysay said:
Well fine Margaret but when a guy turns down £500 a week job because he gets more in handouts, ain't it time to stop his benefits and make the dozy sod get off his arse and take the blood job:mad:
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Someone who genuinely wants the job will get the opportunity if it is left though. Why let someone who doesn't appreciate it have it when there are loads of people desperate to find work.
 
The real Problem wi these kinda cases that were quoted in the thread start is to my mind "The Main Political Parties" none have,or will get off there arses n tackle what irks most decent folk, the direct fact they don't feeds the B.N.P. who are nowt but destestable thugs putting on a decent face, many see right through em, but the numpties take there crap on board n vote fer em, a recession is the perfect platform fer em to flourish, prey on fears, wind em up n ya got a bigger following, seem to remember in history, "Hitler" doin a similar thing back in the 30s, so no-one can argue it don't work. our political leaders from all the big 3 are too numb to see it.:rolleyes:
 
flashy said:
how the kin ell does he get over £500 a week in benefits? thats mad
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It's unreal.. if people get anywhere near £500 a week in benifits it must be a special case, or someone is telling lies..examples of these "freeloaders" have been in the fashion with the media over the last few months.. "bash the hard up" ..but at the same time praise those on less than £6 an hour for thier contribution to the economy, the future for the skilled men and women in this country will be grim.. the sweat shop of Europe is back.
 
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blazey said:
Someone who genuinely wants the job will get the opportunity if it is left though. Why let someone who doesn't appreciate it have it when there are loads of people desperate to find work.
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You totally miss the Point as usual blazey, to turn down £500 a week because he can get more on benefits is outrageous to say the least, its bad enough when people can't work, but when they are quite able and turn down the job to carry on taking tax payers money, its obscene
 
jaysay said:
You totally miss the Point as usual blazey, to turn down £500 a week because he can get more on benefits is outrageous to say the least, its bad enough when people can't work, but when they are quite able and turn down the job to carry on taking tax payers money, its obscene
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No I didn't miss that point, I just didn't comment on it. I wouldn't force him into the job because I know that there are many willing and able people who would rather be considered for it and would only end up being like him if they were to find out that someone like him was more preferential for the job.
 
Oh and I'd just stop his benefits. If he's considered fit enough to work through trying to force him into a job then there is no reason he should even be entitled to that much anyway.
 
blazey said:
Oh and I'd just stop his benefits. If he's considered fit enough to work through trying to force him into a job then there is no reason he should even be entitled to that much anyway.
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So, am I to assume that if a welfare recipient refuses a job then, in the UK, he keeps his benefits:confused: Weird.
 
Eric said:
So, am I to assume that if a welfare recipient refuses a job then, in the UK, he keeps his benefits:confused: Weird.
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Well he shouldn't do, but he probably as rights Eric:rolleyes: and a legal eagle willing to fight his corner;)
 
Problem I see with stories like this is that those of a particular political stance ... ok, reactionary right-wingers, use them to attack the whole idea of social security and welfare. I do believe that there are sensational extremes, but I don't think they should be used to attack a system which gives real benefit to those in real need. Back in '95, when the suppositories took over government in Ontario, their first act was to cut general welfare payments, across the board, by 26%! This was followed, not surprisingly, by an increase in petty crime, particularly shoplifting (esp. of food). Any solution to the problems of the system should be addressed non-ideologically. Instances of individuals ripping off the taxpayer should, I believe, be addressed on a case by case basis, and that the excesses of the few should not be allowed to threaten the security of the majority, who really need support.
 
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