What's the use?
- Thread starter Stumped
- Start date
Certainly wouldn't vote for either of the main parties as they both lied about giving us a referendum on this...didn't they, all you Labour and Tory party members out there? 
Sorry Wynonie, don't agree, Labour have sold use down the river AGAIN, there is no point of the next Tory Government holding a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty as its will have been in force for six months prior to any change in Britain, the Lisbon Treaty will be law in December thanks to Brown, but Cameron has said that the next Government will ensure that this will never be allowed to happen again and will pass laws which state that British interests will be put before European, as well as renegotiating parts of European law. For the Tories to ave any sort of a vote on the Lisbon Treaty would be totally futile and waste of money (these exercises don't come cheap) you can't unratify something that is already lawCertainly wouldn't vote for either of the main parties as they both lied about giving us a referendum on this...didn't they, all you Labour and Tory party members out there?
In that case, he shouldn't have made a "cast-iron" promise on it in his attempt to look tough on Europe.
I'll tell you one way to solve it, though, Jaysay - how about the next Tory government having a referendum on the whole question of our EU membership? You know in your heart of hearts he wouldn't dare, because he knows what the answer would be! Much better to carry on with the illusion that somehow we can be part of the EU but still independent!
As you know Wynonie I'm no great fan of Europe, but in the scheme of things coming out now and going independent would be counter productive, so many British firms are tied up in the EU. When the common market was set up it was for trade purposes only not to form a supper state run by new best buddies Germany and France. I can only hope that Blair is not the first President of this fiasco, and sods of to the states on his 100,000k a night lecture circuit
Easy trap to fall into. The "cast-iron" promise was about a referendum before Lisbon was ratified. In all reality as much as it pains me to say it, now that it has been ratified it would take all 27 countries to undo it. Previous to ratification we had the power to say no. It's Brown we have to blame.
I want an in or out referendum. We actually have the power to legislate on the result of that referendum, unlike a post ratification referendum on Lisbon. I don't want it come what may however. If you had one now Labour and the Liberal Democrats would use the economy to fool voters into remaining in the EU. Just like what happened in Ireland over Lisbon. They'd then argue forevermore that the British public gave them a mandate to keep on course to a federal Europe. Something we can both agree is not what we want. We want a sovereign Britannia.
Funny how this qualification about ratification was never mentioned when David was pretending to be all Euro-sceptic and banging on about "cast-iron guarantees" but never mind. As for holding a referendum on some mythical future date, you know as well as I do, Andrew, that the Tories will never do that!
This is all part of the agenda for one world goverment.
..Coming soon to a country(cinema) near youThis is all part of the agenda for one world goverment.
European President?
What the hell!
The last time we had a referendum on Europe, it was sold as an economic alliance, not as the birth of the United States of Europe.
The Soviet Union, the bringing together of totally disparate countries, under the umberella governing of one super state, didn't work, and neither will this.
It'll end in tears being shed, if not blood.
What the hell!
The last time we had a referendum on Europe, it was sold as an economic alliance, not as the birth of the United States of Europe.
The Soviet Union, the bringing together of totally disparate countries, under the umberella governing of one super state, didn't work, and neither will this.
It'll end in tears being shed, if not blood.
while our troops are fighting for other countries freedom who exactly is fighting for ours ?
unelected priminister and now not even asked about this or even allowed to vot on either of the two
i just think the UK has a lot of nerve marching into other countries telling them democracey is the way to do things yet dont allow its own people the same courtesy
unelected priminister and now not even asked about this or even allowed to vot on either of the two
i just think the UK has a lot of nerve marching into other countries telling them democracey is the way to do things yet dont allow its own people the same courtesy
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Think you've nailed that to the wall exactly Rindi
Am I right in thinking that if a referendum were held ... let's say on a simple "yes" or "no" question .... that the answer would be a resounding "No"?
Not my problem, but a national referendum would appear to be the only fair way of dealing with the question ... fair, that is, to the people in the UK. Both sides can then bring their arguments out into the open and allow the voters to choose. Twice in the last two decades, Quebec has voted on the question of separation from Canada ... and on both occasions Quebecois voted to stay in Confederation ... everything seems quiet now. But the point is, that when the future of our country was at stake, the matter was dealt with democratically ... everything out in the open. Looks to me like the future of your country is at stake. The time seems to have come for the grass roots members of all political parties to remind the big wigs that the power is with the people.
The last time we had a referendum on our membership, when it was still called the Common Market, and was purely a trade alliance, was way back in 1975.
At the last General Election Labour promised there would be another referendum if they won. Something Brown has shamefully renegaded on.
Tory-Lite had made a similar promise, if they win the forthcoming General Election. Though this seems it won't now happen, because the Lisbon Treaty is/has been ratified.
Instead of being members of an economic trade alliance, we've aquired another (more powerful) level of government, and the very sovereignty of the country has been eroded, and the man and woman in the street doesn't have the slightest clue how this has come about.
All opinion polls show the majority of the population aren't happy with the present situation.
Another worry for the electorate, that the main political parties seem able to turn a blind eye to.
I always thought that the Common Market was a good idea ... maybe more than that, an inevitability, like NAFTA ... but a United States of Europe, I don't be thinking so. I just can't see what is in it for the UK
But if the Lisbon Treaty has been ratified by, what is it, twenty seven different govts., there must be some perceived benefit. Maybe I'm just too dense to see it. Many Canadians felt that the Federal Govt. (Progressive Conservatives at the time at the time of NAFTA) was headed towards something more than a trade agreement with the US, and the voters punished the PCs in a general election ... the tories were reduced from a majority in parliament to a rump of, I think, four members ... the party was effectively destroyed ... if this little bit of Canadian political history has any point, it is that democracy can work in dramatic ways.We have given away our sovereignty, our identity and our legal independence....and for what? So the faceless, unelected members in Brussels can dictate on all apsects of our daily lives....and for this we are given the privilege of paying vast sums of money into the EU pot.
We have been bamboozled and hoodwinked into believing that we could not exist outside of the European Union......it felt like a forced marriage in 1975......and it still feels like that now.
Whatever David Cameron might say, he will never be able to re-negotiate different terms for the UK, if he thinks that he will be able to do this he is dreaming.
We can kiss goodbye to democracy.
We have been bamboozled and hoodwinked into believing that we could not exist outside of the European Union......it felt like a forced marriage in 1975......and it still feels like that now.
Whatever David Cameron might say, he will never be able to re-negotiate different terms for the UK, if he thinks that he will be able to do this he is dreaming.
We can kiss goodbye to democracy.
A situation which is well illustrated on here. Our resident Tory members like to pretend they're unhappy with the EU, but are quite happy to carry on supporting a pro-EU party. It would be interesting to hear what Tory councillors think, but none of them have the bottle to join Accyweb.
As for our Labour party members and councillors, a deafening silence!
