Work for dole

Less said:
Your quite right Polly, Benipete should take the effort to read your list.

Well Beni consider your wrists slapped and in case you didn't understand the list I have placed it below:-



  • Cleaning the Queen Victoria statue on Blackburn Boulevard.
  • Re-building Whitebirk Drive, no, even you’ve rejected that one.
  • Cleaning Hospitals.
  • Window Cleaner for public buildings.
If that is a list polly I wouldn't send you to the shops with it you'd get lost.:)

By the way, why did you do such a dramatic U-turn?

I preferred the other polly.
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No u turn as such. My first thought were that we have enough pulic jobs to employ people on and then I though of a number of people I know who are runing small business and can not make the jump to being larger businesses. They are usually held back by lack of staff. Since Nat Min Wage was introduced it has made employing someone a major leap and for the newer businesses it is a leap into the dark, so I can see that subsidised labour would be of great help. I also believe that in small businesses employees are offered a wider range of job experiences and therfor benefit more.

In a capitalised, computerised, mechanised society we are never going to see full employment we need to think out of the box and agree that it is imoral for the working population to keep able bodied citizens (this does not include those with home responsibilities)
 
polly said:
No u turn as such. My first thought were that we have enough pulic jobs to employ people on and then I though of a number of people I know who are runing small business and can not make the jump to being larger businesses. They are usually held back by lack of staff. Since Nat Min Wage was introduced it has made employing someone a major leap and for the newer businesses it is a leap into the dark, so I can see that subsidised labour would be of great help. I also believe that in small businesses employees are offered a wider range of job experiences and therfor benefit more.
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A complete U turn, no use adding as such, I now see you going from being a benevolent employer to one that wishes to take advantage of the unfortunate as well as the lazy, (the unfortunate will resent being grouped with the lazy and the lazy won't give a monkey's, they will find a way around it).

In the earlier thread you claimed to pay more because you got a better work force, created 'real' jobs and saved yourself the hassle of having to replace discontented staff.

Now you want to force people into working for struggling companies. Not all companies will be worth working for and will treat their staff accordingly.

I can also see some poor unfortunates working for bullies, being forced to work in perhaps unsafe conditions or take abuse, because if you don't do what I tell you to I will tell the dole your refusing to work and get them to stop your benefits.


:)
 
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Ok lets look at this logically. An average family of 2 adults and 2 children. They would require a 3 bedroomed house to live, rent approx 500 ( and thats cheap). On benefits, approx 125 a week, plus approx 25 council tax, 20 gas, 20 electric, 5 water so total of 195 without food, clothing etc. lets round it up to 200 to make it easier.

A worker or minimum wage of £5.52 would have to work approx 50 hours a week to get a net income to purely cover the outgoings detailed above. This is above the national directive of 48 hours maximum. Of course, this would mean the family would be naked and starved.

Of course, one person in this family could be classed as hard core unemployed, he/she is fit and able to work. The other is excusable as they are looking after the children.

Does it make sense them going back to work? No. And the Government still wonder why we have children being fed cheap processed food, families buying cheaper foreign imports, malnutrition, problems with learning, problems with crime and so on.

Doesnt really take a genuis to work it out
 
onlyme said:
Its a shame people think they have the right to talk down to you whatever situation you are in, God forbid they find themselves down on their luck on day
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disagree, Conceit,Arrogance, Ignorance, i can accept, but Shame no.;)
 
Incidentally, missed out amounts from working tax etc. Looking at the entitled to website, there COULD be an additional 160 ish weekly with child benefit for 2, housing benefit etc. Sounds great until we carry on with outgoings:

Statistics show approx 115 a week shopping for a family of four, not including clothing. So that leaves 45 a week. Travelling to work and back, lets use a basic of 1.50 each way for buses, 15 on a 5 day week.

That leaves us 30 quid purely based on essentials. And those benefits are based on the MAXIMUM that could be granted.
 
polly said:
You have totally misread me. I would never advocate anyone who has genuine reasons for not working, being h assled into doing so.

The problem in this country is not people who find themselves with problems after working for x amount of years the problem is the hardcore unemployed, the wont work cant work brigade, these are the problem.

I would also suggest that you have no idea what is like to work 12 h ours a day 6 days a week and a few on Sunday to keep a famil when the other partner can not work and be constantly turned down for any help because you are working, but one gets on with it and works around family circumstances.
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Ok if I misread some of your post I apologise but I certainly didn't misread that you think small business's would benefit from this scheme.

You woud be very wide of the mark to suggest I have never worked twelve hour days to keep my head above water whilst my husband was ill and unable to get any top up benefit to his incapacitiy benefit. The only difference to your situation being I was working for an employer who didn't pay minimum wages (before the laws were changed) so was working damned hard for a pittance and you are trying to keep your business going. Whilst I wish you every success please do not assume that I have not and am not struggling.
 
onlyme said:
Couple of arguments against this. Firstly housing benefit is means tested, so any wages I receive would go straight to housing benefit first, before hitting my pocket. Therefore, If I had a part time job at minimum wage, I would have to work approx 20 hours before I even touched the dole money, another 10 ish hours to repay the dole money. Out of that, I would also pay 70-80 for childcare to cover that (although working tax would pay 80%).

Bearing in mind, I have worked for the last few years with a knee condition with which I could go on disability for life (or until a series of operations that arent guarenteed to fix the problem), any extra money that I would get on disability gets knocked off housing benefit automatically so I would be no better off. Also, my disability would appear on my work record, which, although I appreciate there is meant to be no discrimination, I would prefer no to take the chance.

Also, the value of training that I have undergone over the years is huge. If I was a brain surgeon in the same circumstance, would you ask them to work in the community, or as a virtual pa for 60 quid a week? In a country where the Government complain there is a skills shortage etc, surely they should look to make it easier for those that desperately want to work in a job that they have strived for?

I find it embaressing telling people I am unemployed (And I dont mean to offend anyone here). The treatment you receive from the job centre etc is disgraceful, and is only the start of strangers who know nothing about your circumstances judging you and looking down on you. In fact, when I went for my interview with the 'Lone parent adviser' (what joy that was!), after about half an hour of her 'speaking' to me she asked for the necessary paperwork to complete the claim including my last pay slip. She looked at it, paused for a few seconds, and then apologised saying "I'm sorry, I;ve been talking to you like this, and you pay more tax than I earn a month". Its a shame people think they have the right to talk down to you whatever situation you are in, God forbid they find themselves down on their luck on day
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You misunderstood me.
I wasn't referring to everybody on benefits just the dole dossers who have no intention of working.
I know exactly what its like at the job centre.
I had to stop work for a while a few years ago to care full time for my father.
When he was well enough for me to go back to work i went to the job centre and felt like i was being lumped in with all those who have no intention of getting a job.
Anybody without a genuine reason not to work should be made to work imo.
 
Loz said:
You misunderstood me.
I wasn't referring to everybody on benefits just the dole dossers who have no intention of working.
I know exactly what its like at the job centre.
I had to stop work for a while a few years ago to care full time for my father.
When he was well enough for me to go back to work i went to the job centre and felt like i was being lumped in with all those who have no intention of getting a job.
Anybody without a genuine reason not to work should be made to work imo.
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Problem being that every job is covered by someone. You force those on the dole to do it for the 60 quid, why would employers then pay someone minimum wage to do it???

Even statur cleaning, windown cleaning, gutter clearing that people have mentioned have someone assigned to do this. Therefore just making someone else redundant and the problem worse
 
Not every single job is taken!
I'm not suggesting getting rid of somebody just so a doley gets a job.
All i am saying is that if there is a vacancy somewhere fill it.
 
Survey participants received an average of 30.7 applications per vacancy with the FMCG trade, at the top of the range, receiving an average of 112 applications for each job

Just one of a few stats
 
At council level there are lots of places where we could have additional jobs, just the council cant afford them. I don't believe there is anything wrong with having people do some work for their money, if they're unemployed for a long period. We just have to be careful to not take jobs away from people that actually want them.
 
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andrewb said:
At council level there are lots of places where we could have additional jobs, just the council cant afford them. I don't believe there is anything wrong with having people do some work for their money, if they're unemployed for a long period. We just have to be careful to not take jobs away from people that actually want them.
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Are you Irish?:confused:
 
andrewb said:
At council level there are lots of places where we could have additional jobs, just the council cant afford them. I don't believe there is anything wrong with having people do some work for their money, if they're unemployed for a long period. We just have to be careful to not take jobs away from people that actually want them.
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Oh God! Cyfr is getting involved, there goes the thread!

Never intends to do a proper days work in his life, managed to get a pass to a red brick University, (It's only a fancy college for goodness sake), and as usual talking from no experience, come back in 30 years when instead of all your theories on how to keep you on the gravy train have come to nothing, wake up now and realise everyone and every job is essential for the well being of each of us.

None of us want to clean the streets, but fortunately there are people that are willing to work for the Councils and clean our muck away, don't demean this merry band any further by forcing them to work alongside dollopers that would only disrupt their work pattern.
 
onlyme said:
Incidentally, missed out amounts from working tax etc. Looking at the entitled to website, there COULD be an additional 160 ish weekly with child benefit for 2, housing benefit etc. Sounds great until we carry on with outgoings:

Statistics show approx 115 a week shopping for a family of four, not including clothing. So that leaves 45 a week. Travelling to work and back, lets use a basic of 1.50 each way for buses, 15 on a 5 day week.

That leaves us 30 quid purely based on essentials. And those benefits are based on the MAXIMUM that could be granted.
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Bear in mind that if you are on min wage you would be entitled to some housing/council tax benefit aswell.

Basically

couple as stated

one working 37 hrs per week min wage
partner - home looking after two kids

entitled to over £140 tax credits, £31.35 child benefit, approx £5 council tax benefit and you would be entitled to some housing benefit/local housing allowance dependant on whether you are in private or social housing rented property of approx £25 per week
 
IN CANADA THE ONES WHO ARE NOT WORKING HAVE TO COLLECT ANY CANS AND GET THEM WEIGHED THEN THEY GET A FOOD VOUCHER ONLY IF THEY DO NOT GET ANY OTHER MEANS OF MONEY
THEY HAVE TO WORK OR GET NOTHING.
THAT DOES SEEM HARSH BUT THERE ARE PLENTY COULD BE DONE BY THE PEOPLE ON THE DOLE AS WAS SAID,PLENTY OF STREETS WITH WEEDS,GRAFITTI ON WALLS,PLAY AREAS COULD BE SMARTENED UP
WITH PAINT AND MENDED AS WELL,THERE LOTS COULD BE DONE BY THESE PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN ON THE DOLE FAR TO LONG,SOME ARE GENUINE CASES OTHERS JUST WAIT FOR THEIR GIRO EVERY TWO WEEKS.WHAT ABOUT THE STREAMS AND RIVERS THAT FULL OF OLD JUNK GET THEM CLEANED UP.
:jimbo:
 
what about helping build an integrated transport system cut the costs tenfold.after seven weeks the grafters get a permanent job.save importing foreign workers to do the job.....:rolleyes:
 
Less said:
Oh God! Cyfr is getting involved, there goes the thread!

Never intends to do a proper days work in his life, managed to get a pass to a red brick University, (It's only a fancy college for goodness sake), and as usual talking from no experience, come back in 30 years when instead of all your theories on how to keep you on the gravy train have come to nothing, wake up now and realise everyone and every job is essential for the well being of each of us.

None of us want to clean the streets, but fortunately there are people that are willing to work for the Councils and clean our muck away, don't demean this merry band any further by forcing them to work alongside dollopers that would only disrupt their work pattern.
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You're right every job is essential. Where you get the rubbish of me never intending to do a proper days work I don't know. Lots of people said the same, not sure why you decided to have a personal attack on me.
 
cmonstanley said:
what about helping build an integrated transport system cut the costs tenfold.after seven weeks the grafters get a permanent job.save importing foreign workers to do the job.....:rolleyes:
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what do you do with those who have spent thousands furthering education who can't get a job? put them on the hod? also ya aint said about the non grafters.:confused:
 
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