Benefits for the poor are spent on drugs and gambling

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Eric

Right on, bud. You got it in one. When I was a lad ... back in the hoss and cart days, serious ... and lived on Rishton Rd., every afternoon at knocking off time, you could see them in their hundreds streaming down Charles St., workers from English Electric earning a decent wage which they used to raise their families.

They were healthy and not suffering from 'battle shock' and shrapnel injuries.
There were no benefits for my mother and father in the early 1950's.

[accyman]

this government is no better than the previous lot

they make viillains out of smokers ,drinkers and now poor people after dragging out a few isolated cases as examples as to why we shoudl hate those on benefits .

whats next on the list?

children get free dental treatment what a set of scrounging scumbags they are

oh and if anyone is a bit envious of their neigbors telly and think its wrong they have a nice telly becaus ethey are on benefits has it ever occured to you that they may have bought the telly before they lost their job or bought it second hand or even had it bought for them or given

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by accyman

oh and if anyone is a bit envious of their neigbors telly and think its wrong they have a nice telly becaus ethey are on benefits has it ever occured to you that they may have bought the telly before they lost their job or bought it second hand or even had it bought for them or given

If that is the case then all well and good, but the ones I am referring to have never worked....ever!
And yes, in effect they were given the telly....we, the tax payer, gave it to them.

I am not envious of material posessions. If I really, really want something I will save for it......and buy it with a clear conscience knowing that the money I am spending is earned.

[Alan Varrechia]

If newspapers told the truth.

[Neil]

Originally Posted by Alan Varrechia

If newspapers told the truth.

I can never understand why people say they were not elected.

[mobertol]

I still am a firm believer in a welfare state and am proud to say I come from the country where it originated and is maintained. What would be a serious alternative, the workhouse?
Undoubtedly abuse of the system and the fact that it has had to be extended to include members of the EU etc have weakened what was a fine and pioneering system in it's day, something to be proud of as a nation. Do we want to end up with a private health insurance system as they have for example in the USA?

Abuse has come about mainly becasue of a laxity in the system which means that for many it's actually more lucrative NOT to work and instead to claim benefits :
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda
Eric, some of what you say, I take.

Though without wishing to appear too much like a copywriter for the Daily Mail, on some points you're wrong.

In recent years we have had a situation in which people chose to live on state funded benefits, because it meant they were better off doing that, than working for a living. For this, the system was wrong. Not necessarily the people who took advantage of the situation, who wanted as much money as possible, to fund their family's living costs.

The jobs some people are no longer prepared to do, are now being done by eastern Europeans. Who can work here, thanks to the E.U.'s open borders policy.

State benefits should be there for people, who through no fault of their own, need them. They should not be an option, a choice. Which for some, it was. Long term we can't afford that option as a society.

This programme showed people helped back into the jobs market, who then decided they couldn't afford the loss in income, so who chose to go back to living off benefits.

'Yvette, who, with four kids, finds that a minimum wage from Poundland is no match for the benefits she was getting before. Even Hayley doesn't blame Yvette for quitting, which is out of character for Hayley, and means that there must be something wrong with the system.'
Benefit Busters | Last night's TV | Television & radio | The Guardian

Benefit Busters | Single Mothers | Channel 4 - YouTube

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...s-59903-3.html :quote

Fostering a work ethic in a country which offers opportunities to it's people is the key to a growing economy and prosperity for all...as well as a basic welfare system which helps those who are the weakest in society and those who need a helping hand to get them started in the working world.

[MargaretR]

Benefit scroungers are not a recent phenomenon.

When I started my career at Ministry of Pensions and National Insurance (as it was then) in 1959 there were people who 'worked the system'.

The difference now is that you have been made aware of them.

Why do they get so much publicity? - so that you will be outraged and demand more stringent rules to qualify - which get imposed on ALL people who claim.
You are conned into complicity in the wholesale reduction of all benefits to all people, when the bankers who really caused the problem avoid the attention - you have been 'diverted'.

[cashman]

Originally Posted by mobertol

I still am a firm believer in a welfare state and am proud to say I come from the country where it originated and is maintained. What would be a serious alternative, the workhouse?
Undoubtedly abuse of the system and the fact that it has had to be extended to include members of the EU etc have weakened what was a fine and pioneering system in it's day, something to be proud of as a nation. Do we want to end up with a private health insurance system as they have for example in the USA?

Abuse has come about mainly becasue of a laxity in the system which means that for many it's actually more lucrative NOT to work and instead to claim benefits :
Quote:
Originally Posted by garinda


The jobs some people are no longer prepared to do, are now being done by eastern Europeans. Who can work here, thanks to the E.U.'s open borders policy.

State benefits should be there for people, who through no fault of their own, need them. They should not be an option, a choice. Which for some, it was. Long term we can't afford that option as a society.


.

What the second paragraph above this fails to say though is the fact some people who are prepared to do these jobs n have done fer a good few years,were turned away from certain local firms as they had no vacancies cos they "WERE" given to Eastern Europeans, i have a nephew as a case in point, Sept- Xmas every year was the only employment he could gain, he loved doing it,cos he felt valued, last couple of years hes now been worthless in his eyes.

[cmonstanley]

i think the thing we are missing is JOBS .not agency or temporary but jobs with social cohesion.how can people get mortgages when at least 60% of jobs are agency or temporary. all the political parties have missed the point here.ian duncan smith has made sure there are less premenant jobs by choping civil servant who have been replaced by firms who are financed by private equity firms who chop their staff left right and centre to maximise profit/

[cmonstanley]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

If that is the case then all well and good, but the ones I am referring to have never worked....ever!
And yes, in effect they were given the telly....we, the tax payer, gave it to them.

I am not envious of material posessions. If I really, really want something I will save for it......and buy it with a clear conscience knowing that the money I am spending is earned.

brighthouse ie private sector shop

[cashman]

Originally Posted by cashman

What the second paragraph above this fails to say though is the fact some people who are prepared to do these jobs n have done fer a good few years,were turned away from certain local firms as they had no vacancies cos they "WERE" given to Eastern Europeans, i have a nephew as a case in point, Sept- Xmas every year was the only employment he could gain, he loved doing it,cos he felt valued, last couple of years hes now been worthless in his eyes.

That fact the media n government omit to mention some want these jobs but are now refused, probably cos it don't suit their argument,that people dont want em, n many listen to this Bull n take it in,some people are as thick as two short planks in my view.

[Mancie]

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington

No Mancie it isn't.......but you constantly snipe at whatever the government does.
There has developed in this country a benfits culture. Whole families and generations of t hem draw benefits rather that work for their living....How did this come about?

Yes I constantly snipe at this government..and you constantly defend the government.
Ducan Smith is talking about all benefits to poor families..that includes working families that my get some help via tax credits and child benefit..is child benefit now included in what you call the "benefits culture"?
Osbourne has admitted that the cuts to he is making will increase child poverty!... we are not talking about scroungers or those on the fiddle the statement that families on low incomes should suffer cuts because they spend money on drugs and such is a disgrace.

[cmonstanley]

the real losers under this goverment are the workers. higher taxes, tax credits ,high inflation, workers rights cuts to the public sector[dont forget they are taxpayers too which has a knock on effect to the private sector, starving the economy of money creates undergrowth

[cmonstanley]

and by the way the tories created the welfare state as we know it today by creating high unemployment and getting the gutter press to say high unemployment is acceptable. murdoch will never forget or forgive the unions for wapping so they have their own set agenda for the unions.

[Margaret Pilkington]

Originally Posted by Mancie

Yes I constantly snipe at this government..and you constantly defend the government.
Ducan Smith is talking about all benefits to poor families..that includes working families that my get some help via tax credits and child benefit..is child benefit now included in what you call the "benefits culture"?
Osbourne has admitted that the cuts to he is making will increase child poverty!... we are not talking about scroungers or those on the fiddle the statement that families on low incomes should suffer cuts because they spend money on drugs and such is a disgrace.

You have me so wrong. I am NOT defending the government.
I have no allegiance to any political party.
And it really doesn't matter how I answer you, you already have me down in your own mind as someone who goes along with a tory party line.
No, working tax credits are not seen as benefits culture.....because there is a aprent earning those credits...paying into the system.
If you have read and digested anything I have posted you will know exactly what I am talking about....but it suits your argument to dismiss those points in ordernot to dirupt your vision of me.

You obviously have not read of my impoverished upbringing.
Mancie, I really can't be bothered trying to remove your rose tinted glasses anymore.
We are in a mess socially and financially.
I don't care about the colour of the coat of the rescuers......all that matters is the rescue.