Puzzle for kaytex
 

Katy
What is the name of this back.

Retlaw.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

You assume Kate would know the back alleys !!! :lol: very good....

Bottom of warner street.... ;)

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

I think it is off Spencer St behind HSBC bank

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

The question was what is it called.

Retlaw.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

It isn't named on current maps.
If it once contained a dwelling it will have a name, but the only way to find that out would be to trace the route of an old census collector.
Am I on the right lines with the location?

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Sorry Margaret. Its not off Stanley St.

It did have a cellar dwelling, but the the name is not in the 1851 census.
The river Hyndburn runs under it, about three years ago they had part of that back up to strengthen the culvert roof lining. They also carried out work in Grange lane at the same time.
Retlaw.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

I didn't say Stanley St - maybe I have got the street name wrong

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

I have the location for sure just no idea what it was called ????

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Retlaw is an expert on searching old census docs (in the library and on the web) I have no doubt that is how he decided on this puzzle, so that is the route to finding out.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

You have the location right, It was Back ????????? St.
The street itself is under the Arcade.

Sorry Margaret re Stanley and Spencer, short term memory problem, have to keep going back to read whats gone before, desk is littered with little notes, keep forgetting what they are for, result of a brain injury.
But my other memory is working ok.
Retlaw.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Ah yes - I recognise it now - but I don't know what its called either:(
Logical that it would be in the oldest part of town :)

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Now Margaret, thats stretching it a bit, just record facts thats all.
Heres one which I don't think the brewery testers who gather in the Railway at the corner of Blackburn Rd & Edgar St, know what it was called before the Railways were built in Accrington in 1847.

Retlaw.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Less's Ale House ?

Thought the best people to try was the people at The Railway Pub .. but the lady who answered the 'phone didn't know !! Think I may have woken her up ... probably exhausted after our little group had departed .. :D

Actually, that ally was not one I had ever romanced down, so may have struggled.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

So what were the other alleys called. :theband:

Retlaw.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Was it Duke St. or Back Duke St.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Yes Back Duke St. Who told you.

Retlaw.
Next puzzle.
Where was the artist standing when he painted this picture.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Where Southwood Drive is now built?

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Just the popular ones... Pioneer back and all that... ;)

Hey brother .. blooming well done !! Well, might as well keep these in the family..:Banane01:

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Impossible, you would'nt be able to see Accy from there, all you would see is Whinney Hill & Whalley Nab, if that. Go up Back Lane to the end of Whooley Lane, look North and Accrington is'nt visible.

Retlaw.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Know is an image of Accrington in 1848. Not sure of the church .. perhaps Christ Church ??

Thought St. Johns .. but this wan't built until 1860.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

I was thinking of the other end of Southwood Drive but I can see what you mean so I will say Bedlam.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Oak Hill or Hollins

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

From Hillock Bank or possibly above the the North Rake Plantation.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

I was thinking more like somewhere near Bash Cricket field or above

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

I think the church is Christ Church, Hambledon is straight on and Pendle slightly to the left. The buildings to the left would they be where the factory bottoms are now. Which would mean somewhere around the bottom of Priestley Clough

Anyway that's the best I can manage a Saturday morning.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

There are two church's on that picture, one of them you have right.
You said Oak Hill or Hollins both are a bit large and would give diferent perspectives, there is only a small area where he could have been when he painted that picture.
I spent ages finding it.

Retlaw.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

If you were at the bottom of Priestly Clough you would'nt be able to see Pendle, or Christ Church from that angle.
Christ Church was built in 1841, the other church was built on the site of an existing one in 1848.
Retlaw.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Could'nt get the angles right from Bedlam, and you would'nt be able to see the other church.

Retlaw

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Thats even worse than Southwood Drive, you can't see Accy from there.

Retlaw.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

You can see Pendle from the top of Priestly Clough,on a good day that is. Also if you are on Priestly Cough the church is more likely to be St John's in Bax, which probably wasn't there then. Which dosen't help

It's got to be further down Christ Church way.And also fairly high up to get those views of Pendle and Hambleden.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Nearer & nearer but where, save a bit for the Pendle witch. (Katy):theband:

Retlaw

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Careful ... my wand is vibrating .. LOL.

Well, as to this one ...you know it is a famous print .. so not difficult, except the question you asked. Would love to be able to give you a map reference .. but can't. It does show the undeveloped Hollins area .. not one I know very well .. yes, would have to drive up there and take a look around, and I will if I get the chance over the weekend.

I'd go for somewhere like where the Hollin's playing fields are ... best guess.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Still one would presume that those 'maids a milkin' wouldn't be very far away from a farm house... :confused:

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Still, there again, the Art Gallery was once known as Hollin's Hill (probably even before it was built) give up now. If it took our Retlaw ages to find this spot ... can't expect us to do it in a few hours, can he ? Still think we have all made a good effort ... :)

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Waste of time going up Hollins Playing Fields,
and the area where the milk maid is was not Hollins, there were a couple of farms in the area circa 1848, part of the land for Christ Church was originally farm land.
Have you not identified the other church yet.

Wave your magic wand a bit.

Retlaw.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

There was a building on the site of the Art Gallery, which had been there for ages, it was demolished to make way for the Haworth. And you've gone 1/2 mile in the wrong direction any way.

Retlaw.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

St Annes ? Go on tell me wasn't even built then... :D

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

It looks like your crystal ball has stopped working. Your just snatching at straws with that answer, Cobham St/Rd did'nt exist then, only Adelaide St, Chapel St, Hargreaves St & Birtwistle St, put your double glazing on :cool: and look at the picture properly.

Retlaw.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

It's the church that used to stand where Tesco is on Abbey Street, was it painted close to the tennis courts at Bullough Park?

Or was it the church on Oak Street?

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

From my graphical estimations,the artist was at the north end of Rothwell ave.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Yes the other church in the picture is the New Jerusalem which use to be on Abbey St.
Bullough Park would again be at the wrong angle.

Retlaw.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Your the nearest yet, only 100 or so yrds out.
I might be cheating a bit as I used the hydraulic platform to find the location.
But your getting very warm.

Retlaw.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

I hope you took a picture to compare when someone gets the answer.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Could'nt, when we finaly got the location right from top of the H.P., when we came down to the right level there were buildings in the way.

Retlaw.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

End of Yorkshire Street?

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

You've gone further away, than Tubbyles

Retlaw.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Riley Street?

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

No wrong angle so it's got to be the top end of Rothwell Ave/Belfield Rd?

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Thats even further away.
Retlaw.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

LOL .. do actually have a member who lives on Rothwell Avenue, wonder if drawn from his/her back garden ? Great stuff.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Need to go East a bit.
Retlaw.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Its not Rothwell Ave.
If there is a member on Rothwell Ave.
They'd have to stand on the roof and then it would be the wrong angle. Put thy glasses on.:theband:

Retlaw.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

i think i would have noticed you on my roof :D

(well mine for another 2 weeks that is :D )

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Glasses would be no good now .. going blind looking at that blooming painting.

East eh ? You know us women are no good at sorting out compass directions ... unfair advantage to our male members. Better at left a bit/right a bit/up a bit/down a bit.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Even I have me limits as to solving Retlaw's little puzzles Emamum.

Eeew .. hope you have found somewhere nice .. x

Think hitting Bullough Park somewhere ?

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

The artist might have altered the scene a little to get a balanced composition

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Margaret ... you are so right... had this discussion with bros. today. What some artists do is draw a sketch, then go away and paint it in the comfort of their own home and apply 'artistic licence'.

Perhaps Retlaw has been conned all these years .. :D

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Retlaw, I wish you hadnt put two photos under the one heading! I wish to discuss your answer to your question about the back street. You said the answer was DUKE STREET BACK. I STILL cant see how this is a backstreet. Ok there are cobbles showing, but I have never seen a "back" where you can see doorways andn windows!

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Retlaw, re the second "church" showing on the sketch of Christ Church. Bunkum! Never in a million years is that New Jerusalem. Its a bit of artist's jiggery pokery.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

I agree, it's that one that was on Oak Street, wish I could find my books for names of places.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

The artist who drew that picture must have had some draughtsmanship training as well. The picture is spot on in detail and position of the background buildings.
The other church is definitely NEW Jerusalem on Abbey St, it was finished in 1847/8. Oak St Congy's was'nt built until 1861.
As for Katy's complaint about compass directions, and the left a bit etc, depends which way your looking when you say left a bit.

Retlaw.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Ged away wi th Oak St Chapel wernt built then.

Retlaw.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

This is a picture of Accrington from the air taken some time around 1933, you can see that Grange lane has been raised to meet the bottom of Timber St, Welly St and Manchester Rd, the Toll House has gone and the site
where the Fire Station was built has been cleared.
I've labeled some of the main buildings, so Katy will know which way to look with her left a bit directions.

Whoever took that picture was about 250 yrds to the right of where the 1848 picture was taken from, but he had the advantage of wings, the 1848 artist did'nt.

Retlaw.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Tra la la la, tra la la - I still think you are W-R-O-N-G! and that I know the REAL answer Tra la la la la.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Phew, having trouble scanning. Only doing half a picture, but .. better than nothing. ARE YOU READY FOR MY RESPONSE ....... (and if you tell me this building wasnt built then, I will CRY!) - i dont think the second building is a church at all ......

BANK HOUSE, thats what I think the building in the background of the Christ Church photo is ..... BANK HOUSE! :tongueout

This view would also be in the artists sight I am sure. What we see here is the side wall of Bank House and a "tower" which I think is what can be seen on your sketch.
Well ..........??????

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Have a funny feeling that you are both talking about different buildings on the picture .. :confused:

I'm looking at the one in the middle ?

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

quote=Atarah;754680]Tra la la la, tra la la - I still think you are W-R-O-N-G! and that I know the REAL answer Tra la la la la.[/quote]

Tra la la la be blowed you only know the real answer cause I told you one hour ago.

And it Is THE NEW Jerusalm you skenning bat.
Get the street plan of 1848 I once gave you, and use a ruler from the position I gave you, and all will be revealed, and put your glasses on and think 1848 not 1948. Oak St Chapel didn't exist in 1848 how many times do you have to be told. :theband:
Retlaw.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Middle of what. :confused::confused::confused::confused::confused:

Retlaw.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Middle of the picture of course !! :rolleyes: Left of Christ Church, then up a bit. :D

Do we actually know who painted this ? .. we only know that Enoch Bowker 'published' it.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Do you mean this bit. Enlarged just for you.
Its the New Jerusalem on Abbey St, Oak St had one tall spire similar to the Wesleys on Spring Gardens.

Retlaw.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Yes .. but Atarah thought you were talking about the building on the right of Christ Church...right? Which is clearly Bank House. Oak Street never came into the equation.. :confused:

Oh Blooming hek Retlaw .. just tell us where you think it was taken from ... LOL. The 100 yards answer was near enough ... go on then .. Royds Street. Is it possible to mark the spot for posterity ? :D

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Aaah .. think you are getting mixed up with your answers to Bagpuss ..... this gets funnier ...... :D:D

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Retlaw - I can sense the rise in your blood pressure - best to give the answer before it gets worse;)

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Give ore even she does'nt sken that much.:theband:

Your improving, thats near enough, the artist was stood where the houses would be built on Eaton Bank near the juction with Royds St. Thats the reason I could'nt duplicate the picture with the camera, all the buildings and the trees in front of Eaton Bank are in the way, but 60 ft up in the air above that house and all is revealed, then the viewing angle changes.

Retlaw.

There is supposed to be a similar picture some where that was painted from the bedroom of that house, but I've never seen it, but I'm going to make enquiries.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

To finalise then .. we are talking round about here:-


Attachment 14666

That is, of course, if the artist did not embellish his/her painting.;)

I'm off now >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Thank's for an entertaining thread.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

I hadn't gone further away I'd got nearer, no wonder it took forever to get the answer, the clues where rubbish.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

So from the left what are we saying the names of the 3 churches are?

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Hahaha... 3 churches ! Definitely going now. :D

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Looks like 3 to me.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

No 1 is New Jerusalem in Abbey St.
No 2 is Christ Church.
No 3 is the school built in 1844/5

There were several places of worship in Acc mid 1800's, but the only ones with any decent sized congregations were Christ Church, New Jerusalem, St James and Machpelah on Hyndburn Rd, they moved to Blackburn Rd and then to Cannon St.
There was a small one on Chapel St, at the corner with Quarry St, but they were Calvanists.

Retlaw.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Thank you, so Christ Church once had a spire, that's what threw me.

I thought
No1 St James
No2 Oak St or New Jerusalem
No3 Christ Church

Christ Church with steeple
 

Here is Christ Church, in its glory years

Atarah

Re: Christ Church with steeple
 

Thank you, you learn something new everyday.:)

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

I have fond memories of rock and roll discos in Christchurch sunday school premises circa 1955
PS I often wonder what became of Alan Kelly of Russia St (a tech lad)

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Our paths must have crossed Margaret .. I was there too .. mind you would have crossed in the corridors of Accy High too. Don't remember Alan Kelly .. were you sweet on him .. ?? :D

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

It was more of an illogical infatuation:o and I never had a single 'date' with him. He was a tall quiet type - maybe he just had nothing worth saying:D

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

On the left of that painting behind the factory chimneys and in front of the railway viaduct, there is what appears to be a large mound of earth. Any idea what it is?

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Looks like he forgot to paint the arch of the viaduct.

Retlaw

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

That would be some big arch :confused:

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

A street plan of the same year does'nt show any thing that could be a mound of earth, in the line of that view of the picture. Still think he missed a bit when he was painting, and not some big arch, but one and two piers.

Retlaw.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

This one has taken me ages to find .... was it 'The Crown Hotel Livery Stables' ?

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Where the eck did you get that from.
Its nowt to do with the Crown.

I asked what was the name of the Railway Pub, before the railways were completed in Acc in 1847.

Retlaw.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

I have NEVER seen the name printed ANYWHERE of the original name for the Railway Pub Retlaw, and I have looked through some local history books, believe you me!

If you come up with a reasonable explanation, I will personally come to your house with a huge bouquet of flowers, because you will have gone up in my estimations!!!!!!!!

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

I know .. that is what I was answering ..:rolleyes:

Well, there is an old advert for The Crown Hotel, Blackburn Road, Accrington and an invoice dated 1807 headed 'The Crown Hotel Livery Stables' in B.D's book, I came to the conclusion that this may be it. Not the Crown on Whalley Road obviously. As old pictures of the Railway Hotel had a board outside advertising livery stables ... I put 2 and 2 together and probably came up with 5 ?

So what was it called ..please tell me.. grovel. Or do you not know yourself... :)

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

You were swanking yesterday to Atarah about manipulating men.

So you can grovel a bit longer, and you can put your pointy hat on and wave your wand all you like, thats what comes of swanking.:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Retlaw.
New picture on new thread.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

So I am correct then ? :D

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Miles out, and grin all you like.
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

Retlaw

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

Narrowing it down then... :)

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

You will never get it, without indexing the 1841, 1851 census and merging them to see who was still occupying the same premises.

Its no good asking your sister witch Atarah I've never told her or anyone else.

Just one of those not a lot of people know that gems.

Retlaw.

Re: Puzzle for kaytex
 

somewhere up coppice?