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Studio25 03-01-2016 11:12

Halal butcher?
 
Does anyone know of a butcher or supermarket selling Halal meat (specifically chicken) in the Clayton/Rishton area? Thanks

gpick24 03-01-2016 12:17

Re: Halal butcher?
 
There`s one on Blackburn Road if thats any use.

Yaseen Halal Meat, Accrington, 166 Blackburn Road

Less 03-01-2016 12:35

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gpick24 (Post 1157715)
There`s one on Blackburn Road if thats any use.

Yaseen Halal Meat, Accrington, 166 Blackburn Road

Indeed, though I suggest you watch them taking in their deliverys before purchasing, I have seen chicken delivered in plastic bread baskets and slid along the floor where the customers often stand hardly an advert for hygiene is it?

Eric 03-01-2016 14:22

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Less (Post 1157716)
hardly an advert for hygiene is it?


Kinda like fish and chips in a newspaper, eh.;)

Less 03-01-2016 15:23

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 1157720)
Kinda like fish and chips in a newspaper, eh.;)

They never used to scrape the raw chips along the floor then wrap them in newspapers so far as I can remember Eric.
:)

taddy 03-01-2016 15:44

Re: Halal butcher?
 
I called into a petrol station, on Burnley Road today,

(no names mentioned, as I don't want the politically correct police giving me a call), but as well as the fuel, for which I originally stopped off, I bought a packet of liquorice and Blackcurrant sweets that were classed as Halal

(come on, how can you cut the throat of a live blackcurrant).

Your's as ever, be happy, Taddy.

Eric 03-01-2016 16:58

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Less (Post 1157722)
They never used to scrape the raw chips along the floor then wrap them in newspapers so far as I can remember Eric.
:)

Yeah ... but back in the day who gave a rat's ass ... you are going to put the suckers in the deep fryer, that should solve the health and safety problem.:cool:

DaveinGermany 03-01-2016 17:38

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by taddy (Post 1157726)
I bought a packet of liquorice and Blackcurrant sweets that were classed as Halal

If you don't want Halal, stick with Porky products or their derivatives mate! ;)

Retlaw 03-01-2016 18:43

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 1157734)
If you don't want Halal, stick with Porky products or their derivatives mate! ;)

Its the same as that so called organic food, just a big con game to put th price up, who the ell can monitor every food producer on this planet, or even know how their doing, some idiots will fall for any thing.


jelly baby 04-01-2016 11:19

Re: Halal butcher?
 
I believe Asda and Tesco sell halal meat, look for the letters HMA (Halal Monitoring Authority) on the packaging.
JB x

taddy 04-01-2016 11:34

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 1157734)
If you don't want Halal, stick with Porky products or their derivatives mate! ;)

Just had my late breakfast, Two sausages,(Pork), Two rashers of Bacon, (Pork)
Two Hash Browns and Two Eggs, (fried in the fat of the sausage and Bacon).
:alright::alright:

A more than happy Taddy.

Eric 04-01-2016 12:51

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by taddy (Post 1157759)
Just had my late breakfast, Two sausages,(Pork), Two rashers of Bacon, (Pork)
Two Hash Browns and Two Eggs, (fried in the fat of the sausage and Bacon).
:alright::alright:

A more than happy Taddy.


What! No black puddings and fried bread!

Studio25 04-01-2016 18:05

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by taddy (Post 1157726)
...I bought a packet of liquorice and Blackcurrant sweets that were classed as Halal

(come on, how can you cut the throat of a live blackcurrant).
.

I don't know about liquorice and blackcurrant sweets - I thought they were just boiled sugar - but a lot of confectionery contains gelatin and other animal derivatives. I think that anyone who can only eat halal meat probably can only eat halal derivatives too. Someone at work was halfway through scoffing a cupcake before realising he hadn't checked if they were suitable for vegetarians, not because he is one, but because it's the safest way to avoid so-called "tainted" meat.

Studio25 04-01-2016 18:06

Re: Halal butcher?
 
BTW thanks, everyone, for the replies. I'll try Tesco in Great Harwood later.

Less 04-01-2016 18:56

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Studio25 (Post 1157786)
but because it's the safest way to avoid so-called "tainted" meat.

By "tainted" meat I imagine you mean his religion doesn't allow pork products?
For those of us that enjoy food we follow the Chinese philosophy, I'll eat anything with legs except the table.[emoji4]

taddy 05-01-2016 10:18

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 1157763)
What! No black puddings and fried bread!

To be politically correct should that not read, (coloured) puddings and fried bread? Just asking,;);).

By the way, my good lady is down town at this very moment purchasing some (lean),coloured skinned puddings, (I'm not fond of the fatty ones).:(:(.

Your's, Taddy

Studio25 05-01-2016 12:38

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Less (Post 1157794)
By "tainted" meat I imagine you mean his religion doesn't allow pork products?

No, I mean any sort of meat that I usually eat. I'd have thought that anyone who eats halal meat does so for religious reasons (what other reason could there be?). Therefore any meat not prepared in this way would be classed as tainted to someone with those beliefs. I'm happy to be corrected if it's the wrong word.

I've had a bit of a lucky escape in that the "Jacob's join" for which this was necessary is not now happening. I thought halal meat was just slaughtered, hung and butchered with prayers playing in the background. I didn't know that the animal was killed without being stunned. I won't be offering to cook in the future.

What's galling is that many supermarkets are supplying halal meat without labeling it as such, just because it's cheaper that way.

gpick24 05-01-2016 12:53

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Some Halal accreditors allow stunning, there was something in the Telegraph about it with the Nandos opening in Blackburn.

" Cllr Mulla, a former Blackburn with Darwen Mayor, phoned Nando’s head of customer engagement, David Manly to warn him the London-based Halal Food Authority accreditation used by the company’s suppliers was unacceptable to the LCM.

The HFA allows the stunning of chickens before slaughter, which Cllr Mulla and his organisation believe fails to meet the strict criteria of Islamic law.

The LCM insist on accreditation and inspection by the Leicester-based Halal Monitoring Committee which forbids it. "

Muslim bosses spark halal row over new Blackburn Nando's restaurant (From Lancashire Telegraph)

Margaret Pilkington 05-01-2016 12:56

Re: Halal butcher?
 
If I was contributing to a Jacobs join which had members who needed halal food....I would take crudités and dips.
I have to say that when I worked at QPH we provided a bit of a feast over the Christmas period.....and though food acceptable to Muslims was available, many of the docs would eat anything and everything.
OK this is more than a decade ago.....maybe Muslims are more devout now.

Restless 05-01-2016 14:08

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Just go to brown street cash and carry... Best place for it imho

DaveinGermany 05-01-2016 19:31

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gpick24 (Post 1157847)
The HFA allows the stunning of chickens before slaughter, which Cllr Mulla and his organisation believe fails to meet the strict criteria of Islamic law.

The LCM insist on accreditation and inspection by the Leicester-based Halal Monitoring Committee which forbids it. "

Stroppy Ethnics! It has to be our way or we won't accept it? What about other folk who don't want to be eating mumbo jumbo muttered meat? All these "western food chains" really should be sticking to their heritage & original customer base, if it doesn't suit Johnny Foreigner, tough! They can always start their own "Chains", Mukta Halalies or Kandahar flamed chicken, endless opportunities for a budding ethnopreneur.

gpick24 06-01-2016 08:43

Re: Halal butcher?
 
My own findings from a very short trial at work with our products shows that adding the Halal symbol puts off more people than it attracts.

DaveinGermany 06-01-2016 11:16

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gpick24 (Post 1157908)
My own findings from a very short trial at work with our products shows that adding the Halal symbol puts off more people than it attracts.

That I can well believe!

We were in Blackburn Market last Sept & there's a scoff corner with cafes/snack bars & the like. There was a "Greeks" selling meatballs in sauce, looked really nice too, about to order a couple of portions, looked around at the clientèle then looked again at the menu, top of the list, not overly largely written "Halal meat used".

We went to the Butchers over the way & grabbed a warm home made jumbo Sossy roll & a couple o' slices of "Gala pie" instead.

jelly baby 06-01-2016 11:18

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gpick24 (Post 1157908)
My own findings from a very short trial at work with our products shows that adding the Halal symbol puts off more people than it attracts.

I guess this is why the HMA symbol on supermarket products is in very small lettering. I refuse to buy any meat except pork products from a supermarket, not only is it largely halal, it is also more expensive than my local butcher who uses local farms for his produce.
JB x

Neil 06-01-2016 15:30

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jelly baby (Post 1157753)
I believe Asda and Tesco sell halal meat, look for the letters HMA (Halal Monitoring Authority) on the packaging.
JB x

Quote:

Originally Posted by jelly baby (Post 1157914)
I guess this is why the HMA symbol on supermarket products is in very small lettering. I refuse to buy any meat except pork products from a supermarket, not only is it largely halal, it is also more expensive than my local butcher who uses local farms for his produce.
JB x

That is a load of rubbish and HMA is a product code and nothing to do with Halal


Please read this statement from Asda and don't post internet spam rubbish on the forum Online rumours about Asda meat with product code HMA

DtheP47 07-01-2016 10:30

Re: Halal butcher?
 
1 Attachment(s)
I flew back from Israel last week, the inflight snack was a Salmon and Cream Cheese bagel (very nice it was too) I was intrigued to see that packaging had this Kosher logo/stamp.

gpick24 07-01-2016 11:15

Halal butcher?
 
Guy at work thinks the 3 main symbols is dal.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dal

Eric 07-01-2016 13:10

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by taddy (Post 1157839)
To be politically correct should that not read, (coloured) puddings

Au contraire mon ami ... as the frogs would say. "Coloured" is not in favour at this time. Except, perhaps, in NAACP. "Black" is cool, unlike "jigaboo", "porch monkey", "coon", "jungle bunny", and, of course, "nigger (even when referring to Guy Gibson's dog)" The last can also refer to those of Middle Eastern origin when preceded by "sand" ... and those folks don't buy black puddings. Therefore, "black puddings" is definitely PC.;)

I prefer the ones with big gobs of fat in 'em ... heavily laced with hot mustard.:alright:

Eric 07-01-2016 14:01

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by taddy (Post 1157839)
To be politically correct should that not read, (coloured) puddings and fried bread? Just asking,;);).

By the way, my good lady is down town at this very moment purchasing some (lean),coloured skinned puddings, (I'm not fond of the fatty ones).:(:(.

Your's, Taddy

By the by ... if you don't fancy the fatty ones, try boudin noir, a fair alternative if you can't get the real thing. Very popular in Louisiana and, of course, la belle province. And for the faint of heart: boudin blanc. You can probably find it in your local supermarket in the "Infidels Only" section.:D

Margaret Pilkington 07-01-2016 14:55

Re: Halal butcher?
 
And black pudding is currently being touted as a superfood.....so if it floats your boat.....fill yer boots.

jelly baby 07-01-2016 17:09

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 1157934)
That is a load of rubbish and HMA is a product code and nothing to do with Halal


Please read this statement from Asda and don't post internet spam rubbish on the forum Online rumours about Asda meat with product code HMA

It is NOT spam or rumour! When I asked both Tesco and Asda management (on more than one occasion) whether their meat products were Halal, they would not give me a straight answer. Also, I can't be the only person to have seen the madding crowds of Asian ladies at about 6pm fighting for the reduced priced meats!
JB x

DaveinGermany 07-01-2016 18:23

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1158026)
And black pudding is currently being touted as a superfood.....

Aye, I read about that the other day, mind you I think its benefits will probably be severely reduced once it's fried up & accompanied by all the other ingredients of a gut busting "Full English". :D



http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/b...p;d=1330729746

Here's one I scoffed previously! ;)

Neil 07-01-2016 19:18

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jelly baby (Post 1158035)
It is NOT spam or rumour! When I asked both Tesco and Asda management (on more than one occasion) whether their meat products were Halal, they would not give me a straight answer. Also, I can't be the only person to have seen the madding crowds of Asian ladies at about 6pm fighting for the reduced priced meats!
JB x

Did you read Asda's statement about it?

jelly baby 08-01-2016 11:27

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 1158066)
Did you read Asda's statement about it?

Yes I did! And as I've said I've spoken to the fresh meat dept manager and the store manager and they will not admit whether the meat is halal or not. I take that as a 'yes' and when I see the riots breaking out at 6pm ish, I think I am probably right.
As for their statement, if HMA is a product code, why is the same code on different meat products i.e. Beef, chicken and lamb, but not on pork products?
And why is the same lettering on Tesco products?
JBx

Neil 08-01-2016 14:14

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jelly baby (Post 1158135)
.....And why is the same lettering on Tesco products?
JBx


I don't care because I'm not a conspiracy theory nut

Restless 08-01-2016 15:54

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Watched a video of how animals are treat in some British slaughter houses before slaughter. Sheep falling into a room off a conveyor belt which would bring the term Double Standards to some of the participants of this thread.

Also saw a video where a halal slaughterhouse used machines to mass slaughter the 'halal way' which I find odd considering it ritualistic

Less 08-01-2016 19:57

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Restless (Post 1158159)
Watched a video of how animals are treat in some British slaughter houses before slaughter. Sheep falling into a room off a conveyor belt which would bring the term Double Standards to some of the participants of this thread.

Also saw a video where a halal slaughterhouse used machines to mass slaughter the 'halal way' which I find odd considering it ritualistic

Double standards only count when you believe in something but ignore how you gain a result.

Most of us pay a butcher to save us from that guilty feeling of having killed and gutted an animal, so much easier when we buy a chunk wrapped in cling film no matter how it went to slaughter.

Gordon Booth 08-01-2016 20:36

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Once went in an abattoir. I almost went vegetarian but I'm afraid I enjoyed a nice piece of sirloin too much.
At least they were stunned and unconscious.
I would never knowingly eat halal meat. I will look at the packaging a lot more carefully in future.

Accyexplorer 09-01-2016 00:20

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gordon Booth (Post 1158201)
Once went in an abattoir. I almost went vegetarian but I'm afraid I enjoyed a nice piece of sirloin too much.
At least they were stunned and unconscious.
I would never knowingly eat halal meat. I will look at the packaging a lot more carefully in future.

Yes, abbitiors get my goat too,there was one in the local rag recently that's gone bust....

...It must be a cut throat business.

Seriously though,theres a element of cruelty in all slaughter....I'd say,the same sinister things happen in all the 'slaughter houses' it's best not to think about it if you enjoy a good steak.

DaveinGermany 09-01-2016 09:25

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer (Post 1158221)
I'd say,the same sinister things happen in all the 'slaughter houses'

And I'd disagree with you on that one, there are rules & regulations in place to prevent unnecessary suffering & pain to animals that are to be humanely slaughtered. In most cases, these rules are adhered to, there will always be one or two that slip through the net but Halal slaughtering ignores these basic niceties. The grounds for this being so that they can mutter some religious mumbo jumbo, from some fantasy figure, to a fully conscious sentient creature, why?

Illogical & unconscionable.

DtheP47 09-01-2016 09:40

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 1158254)
And I'd disagree with you on that one, there are rules & regulations in place to prevent unnecessary suffering & pain to animals that are to be humanely slaughtered. In most cases, these rules are adhered to, there will always be one or two that slip through the net but Halal slaughtering ignores these basic niceties. The grounds for this being so that they can mutter some religious mumbo jumbo, from some fantasy figure, to a fully conscious sentient creature, why?

Illogical & unconscionable.

Of course there is a wider debate DinG, probably a thread wander though, equally your points here apply. The rearing/farming of animals the sole objective being for them end up on our plate.
What indeed is humane?

DaveinGermany 09-01-2016 10:03

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1158261)
Of course there is a wider debate DinG, probably a thread wander though, equally your points here apply. The rearing/farming of animals the sole objective being for them end up on our plate.
What indeed is humane?

Indubitably so, without wanders the forum would be an oh so tedious place! As to humane, I enjoy my lumps of meat as much as the next man & to see a Sow rooting around in an open field in Englands green & pleasant land, being tailed by a hoard of little piglets, rumbling, tumbling & enjoying a damn good wallow makes me feel all warm & contented.

This however doesn't detract from the fact that I know in x-years down the line those delightful little piggies, will be even more delightfully resting on my breakfast plate reincarnated as Sossys & bacon. But the difference is, prior to them being a hangover cure they've apparently had a pretty good time of their short little porky lives.

Then compare that to a Sow in a pen as is more common here in Europe, caged in a space not much more than 3x3 mtrs, with her litter suckling away but no place to gaily romp freely in open pastures to proverbially "Wallow like a pig in shiite!". Admittedly a rather basic comparison I know but it will do to highlight my point, the inevitable outcome is unaltered but for what it's worth, to my mind at least, option nr.1, seems a damned sight more humane wouldn't you agree?

taddy 09-01-2016 11:23

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 1158015)
Au contraire mon ami ... as the frogs would say. "Coloured" is not in favour at this time. Except, perhaps, in NAACP. "Black" is cool, unlike "jigaboo", "porch monkey", "coon", "jungle bunny", and, of course, "nigger (even when referring to Guy Gibson's dog)" The last can also refer to those of Middle Eastern origin when preceded by "sand" ... and those folks don't buy black puddings. Therefore, "black puddings" is definitely PC.;)

I prefer the ones with big gobs of fat in 'em ... heavily laced with hot mustard.:alright:

In the 1970's, four or five young fella's, (me included), would meet up for a game or two of snooker in the Burnley Road Bowling Club on friday nights.

The steward at that time used to put on a pan of black puddings and mushy peas; The lads would compete to see who could eat their puddings with the most Colemans mustard on.

Many a pint was used to wash them down, one or two units of alcohol a day ?
(Bah Humbug).

This smiley sums up eating black puddings with plenty of "Hot", mustard. :p:p:p.

Stay happy as always, Yours Taddy.

Restless 09-01-2016 11:53

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Less (Post 1158194)
Most of us pay a butcher to save us from that guilty feeling of having killed and gutted an animal, so much easier when we buy a chunk wrapped in cling film no matter how it went to slaughter.

That Is so true. I for one couldn't work inside a slaughterhouse.

Restless 09-01-2016 11:56

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Nobody seems to mention shechita/kosher meat... for how much the Jews and Muslims hate each other they seem to have so much in common.

Accyexplorer 09-01-2016 12:10

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 1158254)
there are rules & regulations in place to prevent unnecessary suffering & pain to animals that are to be humanely slaughtered. In most cases, these rules are adhered to, there will always be one or two that slip through the net but Halal slaughtering ignores these basic niceties.

Do you know this as fact D,If we cared to look, I'm sure we could find enough examples of procedures not being followed correctly etc in any slaughter house.
I'd say there would also a equivalent amount of evidence to support that the halal slaughter procedure is just as 'humane' as the standard.

DaveinGermany 09-01-2016 13:06

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer (Post 1158297)
Do you know this as fact D, (the information is readily available if you're prepared to look, the Tinterweb is a marvellous research tool)

If we cared to look, I'm sure we could find enough examples of procedures not being followed correctly etc in any slaughter house. (Agreed, regardless of what rules are laid down there will always be someone somewhere be they individual or company who bend, disregard or blatantly disregard those edicts)

I'd say there would also a equivalent amount of evidence to support that the halal slaughter procedure is just as 'humane' as the standard. (That I doubt as from the start the animals in Halal slaughters aren't stunned & as such are fully aware of what is happening)

Here's a starting point for you Accy-x

General - Humane Slaughter Association

Margaret Pilkington 09-01-2016 14:14

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Accyexplorer (Post 1158297)
Do you know this as fact D,If we cared to look, I'm sure we could find enough examples of procedures not being followed correctly etc in any slaughter house.
I'd say there would also a equivalent amount of evidence to support that the halal slaughter procedure is just as 'humane' as the standard.

I know this to be a fact as my daughter used to work at a local slaughterhouse.
There were a whole raft of regulations which were strenuously enforced.
The animals were stunned before slaughter and they were kept calm.
Animals who are fearful release hormones which make for tough meat.
Official vets are employed by slaughterhouses to ensure humane standards of kill are maintained.....and to ensure animal welfare in the period prior to the slaughter. (My neice is married to one of these offical vets)

Kosher slaughter was also performed at this establishment and this was also rigorously regulated.
Halal slaughter(and Kosher too) is NOT humane......there is no stunning of the animal.

Yes, I do care......I do not wish to eat halal meat of any descripton....I believe that I should be told if the meat I am about to buy is Halal.....this givs me the choice of whether to buy or not......in my case, it would be NOT.

I fully understand how meat gets to my plate and I accept that, as I eat meat.
If I felt differently I would not choose to eat meat.

taddy 09-01-2016 14:51

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Talking of meat and meat products, I have been informed that two local police officer's have been diagnosed with Swine Flu thanks to the help of one of their snout's. :hehetable. Taddy.

Eric 09-01-2016 16:35

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1158261)
What indeed is humane?

Shooting them yourself, maybe?;)

DaveinGermany 09-01-2016 16:52

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 1158327)
Shooting them yourself, maybe?;)

I can go with that & in my time have also done so. I don't do the shooting now (to many rules & regs in Germany) but I have a friend who is a Hunter & such meat as we would like Deer & Boar we source through him. Clean, efficient, instantaneous, using the right calibre for the job, the animal is dead before it knows what has happened.

Eric 09-01-2016 17:16

Re: Halal butcher?
 
I don't know if it's irony or paradox ... and really don't give a rat's ass ... but many Canadian hunters are conservationists.

Conserve Our Wetlands ? Support Ducks Unlimited Canada

DtheP47 09-01-2016 17:17

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 1158304)
Here's a starting point for you Accy-x

General - Humane Slaughter Association

And another for you and Eric to consider Accy X

Ethical, organic, safe: the other side of halal food | Life and style | The Guardian

Extract: "In truth, 88% of Britain's halal meat comes from animals that have been stunned before slaughter, but the 12% that isn't generates controversy, even among Muslims. Of Britain's two most prominent halal certification boards, the Halal Food Authority allows stunning, while the Halal Monitoring Committee bans it, on grounds that stuns can sometimes kill the animals before slaughter. With a clutch of regulatory bodies, and varying definitions of what constitutes halal, customers are confused: there have even been calls to have halal meat labelled as "stunned" and "non-stunned"."

Margaret Pilkington 09-01-2016 20:35

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1158334)
And another for you and Eric to consider Accy X

Ethical, organic, safe: the other side of halal food | Life and style | The Guardian

Extract: "In truth, 88% of Britain's halal meat comes from animals that have been stunned before slaughter, but the 12% that isn't generates controversy, even among Muslims. Of Britain's two most prominent halal certification boards, the Halal Food Authority allows stunning, while the Halal Monitoring Committee bans it, on grounds that stuns can sometimes kill the animals before slaughter. With a clutch of regulatory bodies, and varying definitions of what constitutes halal, customers are confused: there have even been calls to have halal meat labelled as "stunned" and "non-stunned"."

While this story is laudable......I still would not eat Halal meat......unless there were guarantees that the animal had been stunned.

As for the stunned animal dying from the stunning process.......I think this is very unlikely.
If the animal needs to be prayed over or blessed for giving up its life then do it, stun the animal, then kill it.

As for killing my own meat. I know I could not do it. I accept that there are others in the community that can do so.....so I let them do it.
(there are people who frequently tell me that they could not wipe another persons bottom, something I did for 30 years or so - that would be no problem to me...so how about I wipe bums and someone kills my meat?)

DtheP47 09-01-2016 21:19

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1158341)
As for the stunned animal dying from the stunning process.......I think this is very unlikely.

"the Halal Monitoring Committee bans it, on grounds that stuns can sometimes kill the animals before slaughter"

Well the HMC thinks it likely, they will have access to more evidence than you quite likely.

Margaret Pilkington 09-01-2016 21:32

Re: Halal butcher?
 
It sounds like a justification for killing without stunning to me.
I do not have experience in such things, but I will ask my nieces husband(who is an official vet for slaughterhouses) how often he has seen this happen.

Margaret Pilkington 09-01-2016 21:34

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1158342)
"the Halal Monitoring Committee bans it, on grounds that stuns can sometimes kill the animals before slaughter"

Well the HMC thinks it likely, they will have access to more evidence than you quite likely.

And if they fear this is likely, then they should do the prayer or blessing, stun and THEN kill the animal humanely.

Gordon Booth 09-01-2016 21:52

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DtheP47 (Post 1158342)
"the Halal Monitoring Committee bans it, on grounds that stuns can sometimes kill the animals before slaughter"

Well the HMC thinks it likely, they will have access to more evidence than you quite likely.

If the laws of this country apply to all of us, not just some of us, the HMC cannot ban it, they can only ban their followers from eating it. Our laws say animals must be treated humanely and slaughtered humanely.
If they insist on meat killed this way then they should buy it from a country where halal killing without stunning is not banned.
Hanging a fully conscious animal by a leg and cutting it's throat so it bleeds to death for a few minutes- humane? Painless? No rational person could believe that or should accept it.

DtheP47 10-01-2016 00:23

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1158344)
It sounds like a justification for killing without stunning to me.
I do not have experience in such things, but I will ask my nieces husband(who is an official vet for slaughterhouses) how often he has seen this happen.

:)
I'll be interested to hear what he says.

Margaret Pilkington 10-01-2016 08:16

Re: Halal butcher?
 
I spoke to him last night.
He has been an official vet for some twenty odd years and he has only seen a stun kill a beast three times. Each of these beasts was discarded as being unfit for human consumption. (Don't know if they were post mortemed, didn't think to ask)I presume that that means that there was something wrong with them.
He also said he hasn't seen this happen in recent years.

DtheP47 10-01-2016 08:32

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Thanks Margaret.
For me it's ones choice at the end of the day.
A blunt instrument pounded into the animals skull. *shudder*
Or the severing of the jugular vein with a sharp knife breaking the connection to the pain receptors and brain almost immediately. *shiver*
There is of course another consideration, the subsequent draining of blood is also seen to have a number of health benefits.
Clearly though labels should be used then we are all given the right to choose.

Margaret Pilkington 10-01-2016 10:30

Re: Halal butcher?
 
You are welcome.
The stunning (which is not a blunt instrument, it is an electrical charge)process renders the beast insensible so no pain is registered by the animal.
I cannot be sure in my own mind that the person who uses the sharp knife has accurately located the jugular vein.....or that the knife is as sharp as it needs to be.
Also,I am told,that frequently in halal slaughter, the prayer or blessing is on the blade to remove the need for it to actually be spoken....to speed up the process.
I know that I should take things I am told with a good dose of salts, but it makes you wonder what other practices are done in the name of speed.

Yes, adequate, CLEAR labelling is definitely the way forward so that we can make a choice.

DtheP47 10-01-2016 10:41

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Animal slaughter factfile - Stunning, sticking, religious slaughter

extract:•Penetrating captive bolt - used on cattle, sheep and some pigs. A gun fires a metal bolt into the brain of the animal causing the animal to lose consciousness immediately.

Margaret Pilkington 10-01-2016 11:49

Re: Halal butcher?
 
I have visited slaughterhouses, I have seen the electrical stunning, but 'chickened' out of watching beasts being bolted(no pun intended)
The animals I saw being killed were lambs and pigs.
My husband worked in the blood pit of the slaughterhouse when he was a teenager(a damn long time ago).

DtheP47 10-01-2016 15:46

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1158357)
The stunning (which is not a blunt instrument, it is an electrical charge)process renders the beast insensible so no pain is registered by the animal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1158362)
I have visited slaughterhouses, I have seen the electrical stunning, but 'chickened' out of watching beasts being bolted(no pun intended)
The animals I saw being killed were lambs and pigs.
My husband worked in the blood pit of the slaughterhouse when he was a teenager(a damn long time ago).

So "bolting" with a blunt instrument is part of the slaughtering process then is it not? As per the RSPCA pages.

Margaret Pilkington 10-01-2016 16:41

Re: Halal butcher?
 
As far as I am aware, bolting is part of the stunning process, done prior to the slitting of the beasts throat.
I said in a previous post, I was offered an opportunity to watch this being done, but declined........I DID watch the electrical stunning of smaller animals(not chickens).

I am not that squeamish, but did not really want to watch bolting.

I thought the electrical stunning was a bit like ECT which I saw carried out on the mental health unit.

DtheP47 10-01-2016 17:46

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1158378)
As far as I am aware, bolting is part of the stunning process, done prior to the slitting of the beasts throat.

I thought the electrical stunning was a bit like ECT which I saw carried out on the mental health unit.

Yes but in post #62 you said authoritively "Stunning is not a blunt instrument but an electric charge"

Electroconvulsive Therapy.... now that opens up a whole new thread.
Carrie Mathison in Homeland and McMurphy in One Flew Over The Cuckoos Nest.
"Trust me I am a doctor (or a nurse)"

Margaret Pilkington 10-01-2016 18:02

Re: Halal butcher?
 
You made it sound as if the animal was being cudgelled to death. Yes a bolt is s blunt instrument....But it is considered to be the most humane way of stunning beasts prior to a kill. You were using emotive language to impress a point.
Are you a meat eater? Do you care about how your meat gets to you table?
If you are not a meat eater then any method of killing an animal for food will be abhorrent to you......and I can see why you would use emotive language......designed to put meat eaters off meat.

I want to be able to make choices of whether I spend MY money on meat that I consider has been killed humanely.
I do not consider halal meat to have been humanely killed......that is my opinion, to which I am entitled.

Retlaw 10-01-2016 18:46

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1158378)
As far as I am aware, bolting is part of the stunning process, done prior to the slitting of the beasts throat.


I thought the electrical stunning was a bit like ECT which I saw carried out on the mental health unit.

A captive bolt pistol does kill, when the dog dispatch house was in the fire station yard, I've used a captive bolt on more than one occasion, when the chap who operated the electric chamber was off, and a young copper woild be dithering and missing, I'd take it off him reload, and do it proper, the one at the cop shop used .22 blank cartridges, and the bolt shot out over 2 inches, some of the bigger ones for larger animals used .38 blanks.
During WW1 the foot sloggers in the Army Vet Corps, were issued with .38 caliber revolvers, to put wounded horses out of their misery, that ammo was specially made for the job, and stayed inside the horses head, middle of the fore head about 3 inch above the eyes.

maxthecollie 10-01-2016 18:57

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Retlaw (Post 1158384)
A captive bolt pistol does kill, when the dog dispatch house was in the fire station yard, I've used a captive bolt on more than one occasion, when the chap who operated the electric chamber was off, and a young copper woild be dithering and missing, I'd take it off him reload, and do it proper, the one at the cop shop used .22 blank cartridges, and the bolt shot out over 2 inches, some of the bigger ones for larger animals used .38 blanks.
During WW1 the foot sloggers in the Army Vet Corps, were issued with .38 caliber revolvers, to put wounded horses out of their misery, that ammo was specially made for the job, and stayed inside the horses head, middle of the fore head about 3 inch above the eyes.

I used to repair the electric chamber at the back of the cop shop when I worked for Accrington (not Hyndburn) Corporation

Retlaw 10-01-2016 20:20

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by maxthecollie (Post 1158386)
I used to repair the electric chamber at the back of the cop shop when I worked for Accrington (not Hyndburn) Corporation

Flamin Nora, thats a long time ago, tha must be a real coffin dodger, n a thowt I wur owd. :)
I joined Fir Briga dee in 57, n cops wur county as well then.

maxthecollie 10-01-2016 20:29

Re: Halal butcher?
 
It was just before Accy became "Hyndburn" I worked for the Electrical and Street Lighting between 1960 and 1965 approx

Retlaw 10-01-2016 21:17

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by maxthecollie (Post 1158390)
It was just before Accy became "Hyndburn" I worked for the Electrical and Street Lighting between 1960 and 1965 approx

We had several members of the street lighting dept, who were in the retained fire section, I used to call them Mantle Squeezers.
Daft enough to squeeze a gas mantle to see if it still worked.
Two of them got caught out ringing in false fire calls, ended up in court, its a long story of how I found out, then weeks of of checking call out records, and listening to recordings at B.H.Q.
My Sister worked there, and records were kept of the incoming calls, and where from, accidentally caught another, a fairly new member working on his own.

DtheP47 11-01-2016 08:16

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by maxthecollie (Post 1158386)
I used to repair the electric chamber at the back of the cop shop when I worked for Accrington (not Hyndburn) Corporation

I always thought they gassed stray/unwanted dogs behind the Fire Station.

DtheP47 11-01-2016 09:37

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Margaret Pilkington (Post 1158380)
You made it sound as if the animal was being cudgelled to death. Yes a bolt is s blunt instrument....But it is considered to be the most humane way of stunning beasts prior to a kill. You were using emotive language to impress a point.
Are you a meat eater? Do you care about how your meat gets to you table?
.

Yes I am a meat eater, the Surf and Turf I had last weekend in the Park (medium rare) was finger licking delicious.
Am I bothered how my meat gets to my table? Yes of course, but I am more concerned with hygiene and responsible animal welfare/husbandry during its life that it’s last few hours.
Dave in Deutschland makes the point about the animal being despatched before it knows what’s happening. Good enough for me but we can widen that debate if you like. “Would or does the animal know what’s happening?”

No I don’t want the animal distressed period but I think that’s a given in any slaughterhouse procedures, rules and regulations.

Margaret Pilkington 11-01-2016 14:54

Re: Halal butcher?
 
I would guess that most people who care about how an animal is killed would also have concerns that the animals welfare through its life was good too.
Rules and regulations are what protect us all...they are observed and monitored closely

cashman 11-01-2016 22:17

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Have to be honest, when its on me plate, have never considered were n how it got yon.

ossy kid 12-01-2016 00:43

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Pretty sure they did gas unwanted dogs and cats at the back of the station, at least when I had the rotten job of taking a few during the early 50s.

maxthecollie 12-01-2016 07:16

Re: Halal butcher?
 
When I worked on the council.They had a shallow metal tray with water in it and they use to stand the dogs in it with clips on their ears connected to the electricity supply

DtheP47 12-01-2016 08:34

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by maxthecollie (Post 1158441)
When I worked on the council.They had a shallow metal tray with water in it and they use to stand the dogs in it with clips on their ears connected to the electricity supply

Bit of Bisto in the tray?
Bingo (or Fido) a ready meal.
:D

maxthecollie 12-01-2016 09:02

Re: Halal butcher?
 
It used to smell horrible

Retlaw 12-01-2016 12:12

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by maxthecollie (Post 1158441)
When I worked on the council.They had a shallow metal tray with water in it and they use to stand the dogs in it with clips on their ears connected to the electricity supply

That dog killer in the Fire Station yard was a large box at least 3 ft high by 6 ft long, the dog had a bucket of water tipped over it a steel chain round its neck then hooked onto a contact inside the box, lid closed and a large switch on the wall pressed. The whole thing buzzed, and the dog would thump around for a few seconds, then it was unhooked chain removed, then the dead dog would be chucked in a bin outside, which the council emptied once a week.

DaveinGermany 13-03-2016 12:45

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Just poking the fires up a bit.

Top vet calls for reform of kosher and halal slaughter practices | World news | The Guardian

cashman 13-03-2016 13:43

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Anyone who buys halal meat is a savage simple as. like it or lump it.

Nibor 15-03-2016 12:35

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Most chicken sold in this country is produced to meet halal requirements

Less 15-03-2016 15:02

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nibor (Post 1164056)
Most chicken sold in this country is produced to meet halal requirements

You know this to be a fact because...

DaveinGermany 11-11-2016 10:43

Re: Halal butcher?
 
So a 100,000 signature petition is now in the hands of PM Maybe, but I personally don't think it'll make to much difference because there's no will or determination from the gutless politicoes for confrontation with the "enrichers" to our UK shores. What's more telling though is that the Animals rights crowd & the RSPCA, haven't spoken up against this barbaric practice.

Campaigners Hand in Petition after 100,000 Call for Ban on Halal Slaughter

Barrie Yates 11-11-2016 16:27

Re: Halal butcher?
 
I once worked at a Bernard Mathews turkey farm for a few days before one Christmas. Grab the bird by the legs. stick the feet through a wire W hook so the bird was hanging upside down. grip the neck between your fingers, pull downwards and twist until you felt the neck seperate. Then pluck the feathers, whilst trying to avoid it's last objection. Only did 4 days and then my wife said no more, she couldn't get rid of the smell on my clothes despite repeated washing. Guess they qualified as Halal.

TheJarvefromossy 12-11-2016 13:54

Re: Halal butcher?
 
I started as a teenager in Tony Perkins butchers in Ossy. I am a Graduate member of the Institute of Meat, a fully trained animal welfare officer & have spent all my working years in food & in particular meat. Until September this year I worked for a retailer auditing meat & poultry slaughter house's across the world.
The majority of meat killed & cut in the UK & Europe is halal but I have never seen any "inhumane" methods of slaughter that would make any animal or bird suffer.
For info the best slaughterhouse I have seen for beef & lamb supplies M&S & Iceland, the best poultry site was in Poland supplying Asda, Iceland & KFC. Pork was a German site supplying just about most of Europe. The worst unfortunately was in the UK & purely due to age & lack of investment Bernard Matthew's gets this.
However they still slaughter in a humane manner.

Here today, somewhere else tomorrow.

Less 15-11-2016 15:21

Re: Halal butcher?
 
I started at a young age very young in fact, to eat meat, it came naturally to me after all, it was offered so I ate it.
The plain fact of the matter is that we are omnivorous, no matter how you pretend you can't get away from it, it does mean some other animal has to die to give us the pleasure of grease dribbling down our chins as most of us chew our way through the flesh of what used to be alive and has been killed for our benefit.
Of course it is important that the animal we are chewing on has been given a life that up until it was slaughtered wasn't a miserable one and that it's moment of dispatch will be as painless and stress free as possible.
Somewhere around this point in the conversation I'm sure there will be one of those superior beings that give themselves titles such as vegans or some such farty thing.
But, do they not realise how many living creatures they kill just when they boil a potato?
We are all guilty it's part of life, get on with it.

jelly baby 19-11-2016 11:55

Re: Halal butcher?
 
I

DaveinGermany 19-11-2016 12:18

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by jelly baby (Post 1181627)
I

"I"? I'm sure it's a valid & very well thought out "I", but forgive my (and no doubt others) ignorance & head scratching in this instance, but a little enlightenment as to what your particular "I" refers to, please.

Less 19-11-2016 16:07

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveinGermany (Post 1181632)
"I"? I'm sure it's a valid & very well thought out "I", but forgive my (and no doubt others) ignorance & head scratching in this instance, but a little enlightenment as to what your particular "I" refers to, please.

Nah, a well thought out "I" would not display itself on AccyWeb. Ignorance and head scratching however can often be seen here, maybe it was an agreement type "I" after all, aye is a difficult word to speil.

DaveinGermany 19-11-2016 17:59

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Must admit I did think said "I" might be an "Aye" but one doesn't wish to presume. :)

MrPastry 23-11-2016 13:33

Re: Halal butcher?
 
These are the KFC shops currently selling Halal Southern Fried Chicken. Accy seems to have survived the Chickexit.

They do keep on about respecting customers choice but what about those who just want genuine old fashioned Southern Friend Chicken?

Acton Vale
Arndale Centre
Baker Street
Barking
Barlow Moor Road
Beckton
Bethnal Green
Birmingham Star City
Birmingham Heybarnes
Birmingham Yardley
Bishopsgate
Bolton Derby Street
Bradford Ingleby Road
Bristol Union Street
Burnley
Camden Town
Cape Hill
Colindale
Colliers Wood
Coventry Courthouse Green
Coventry Cross Cheaping
Croydon Central
Derby Foresters Leisure Park
Dewsbury
Earls Court Road
East Ham
Edgeware Road
Edinburgh Meadowbank
Edmonton
Elk Mill
Festival Heights
Finsbury Park
Forest Gate
Fulham
Gateshead Metro Centre
Glasgow Govan
Glasgow Pollokshaws Road
Glasgow Renfield Street
Hackney
Halifax
Halifax Haley Hill Drive Thru
Handsworth
Harrow Weald Drive Thru
Heaton Chapel
High Wycombe Retail Park
Hounslow West
Iflord
Leeds Road
Junction 27
Junction 9
Keighley
Kilburn
Birmingham Kings Heath
Lea Bridge Road Drive Thru
Meanwood
Leicester
Leicester High Street
Leicester Services
Leyton
Leyton Mills
Leytonstone
Liverpool Chaloner Street
Luton
Manchester Fort
Newport West
Northampton
Nottingham Alfreton Rd
Oxford
Paddington
Park Royal
Peacocks Shopping Centre
Perry Bar
Peterborough London Road
Deepdale
Reading Broadstreet
Rochdale Kingsway
Seven Kings
Seven Sisters
Sheffield Queens Road
Sheffield Arena Drive Thru
Slough Queensmere Centre
Southall
Stratford
Streatham
Teeside Retail Park
Tottenham Court Road
Tottenham Hale
Tower Hill
Tyrell Street
Upton Park
Walthamstow
Walworth Road
Wembley
Westfield Stratford
Westgate Retail Park Drive Thru
Whitechapel
Woking
Wood Green Restaurant

Less 23-11-2016 13:58

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Is that a list of those that do halal or those that don't?

MrPastry 26-11-2016 09:17

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Hi The list is the ones that do Halal. KFC says its making it available due to demand so I guess those who don't want it are in a minority now. Pleased to see the Preston high street branch has stuck to its guns as it was the first branch to open in the UK and continuing with its original KFC recipe. To my mind all the others in the list are no longer genuine KFC outlets and being honest the thought of Chicken going through a cut in a jugular vein, carotid artery and windpipe in some sort of ritual slaughtering whilst verbal mutterings take place is enough for me to ask everywhere I eat 'is your food Halal' Our own government has stated it has no intention of stopping religious slaughter here which kinda endorses it. Yep I've seen the meat wagon offloading on the walk into town many times at said shop and how they get away with flogging what will be contaminated meat I've no idea.

Probably like many on hear we live our dining out lives by who has a 5* hygiene rating sign up and who has nothing in the window usually a good guide.

jelly baby 26-11-2016 09:31

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Reference 'I'......Grandkids messing about, couldn't delete the whole thing!

MrPastry 26-11-2016 09:58

Re: Halal butcher?
 
Forgot to mention that anywhere serving Halal should be displaying HALAL FOOD AUTHORITY sign as well which is green and says HFA APPROVED, it does help if you don't like Halal in your tum tum.

Neil 26-11-2016 16:02

Re: Halal butcher?
 
I don't believe it's legal for those shops to sell Halal unless they are sure the customer is buying it for religious reasons.

This is taken from this government website

Quote:

You must meet all of the following requirements for halal and kosher religious slaughter:

it must take place in a slaughterhouse (abattoir) approved by the Food Standards Agency (FSA)
it must be done by someone who has a certificate of competence (CoC)
the slaughter must be done in a way that follows Jewish or Islamic religious practice
the meat must be intended for consumption by Jews or Muslims


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