Wouldn't it be good if........
 

Wouldn't it be good if some enterprising Muslim businessman thought up a scheme to let ordinary muslims demonstrate their disaffection for the atrocities. A coloured ribbon, a badge of some description, a flower. At the vigil in London last week and at the 2 minutes silence there were plenty of Muslims bearing placards saying 'Not in My Name'.

If a muslim wasn't wearing one of these badges/ribbons/flower.....it wouldn't mean that they were in favour of what has been happening, but if they WERE wearing badge/ribbon/flower.......wouldn't it make a difference to general feelings of un-ease on both sides.
What are your views.......?

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Oh.... and better still.....proceeds or profits could go into the Red Cross Fund to help the victims of the bombings.

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Excellent idea in theory Margaret. I wonder if it would work? Wrist bands could possibly be popular with younger generations of muslims.

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Excellent idea margaret.

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I hadn't thought of wristbands.......I suppose it is because I am not in the 'Younger'generation. I think it might just deflect some of the abuse that muslims appear to be getting.......if they were wearing something that meant they were against extremism surely people would feel better towards them.

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It's the younger generations of our own and muslim children that is the future. If they can believe whilst they are young enough that terrorism achieves nothing maybe we could hope for a more peaceful future.

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I agree with that Tinks, but I also think that the muslim leaders and parents do have some influence....children and young adults pick up ideas like pigeons pick up peas .......without thinking.
Attitudes are something which cut across all ages.

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I know what you're suggesting sounds good in principle but I can imagine it would cause even greater divides in the muslim community. It could work if it was something that was worn by everyone regardless of colour or race.

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I agree Margaret but peer influence can be just as strong and the children could maybe learn the adults a thing or two. It would take one child to buy the wristband ..... another child asks what it's for that get's the children talking about the purpose of them..... then the other child wants one .....they tell their parent's and the then the parent's ask what it's for. They are an excellent way to get a messages across through the generations.

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I agree with that Gayle.......and I think it would bring some cohesion.
But I was thinking of how muslims are sometimes perceived..........and I have read some very eloquent stuff from people like Lord Ahmed of Rotherham, and Shiub Khan.......they feel just as hurt by the atrocities as we do, but I think it is all too easy to lump all muslims together and think that perhaps they don't feel the bombings were wrong.

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I think if British Muslims did show that what happened wasn't done in their name, it would alleviate a lot of tension.

The wristband idea, though, not to my taste, may prove a popular idea.

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I understand your direction of thought Margaret, but I would have to agree with Mrs Knight in respect of all people displaying the same feelings on the matter. I don’t really seen how Wrist Bands serve any purpose now. The original Idea was an extremely good on but it has become over stated. We have them for all shorts now and the original statement that they demonstrated have merged into a fashion accessory and for some a vehicle for profit…..I would like to see the Muslim community engage with the predominantly Christian community in which they live. An attempt to engage, understand and respect other cultures is the only way forward. Some Muslims refuse or decline the opportunity to learn the language of the country they say they have adopted as their own, yet the Christian and predominantly white community is not given the option in some schools but to learn predominantly eastern languages. There are few Ethnic Minority Groups in Blackpool, yet I am currently engaged in producing company documents into Ethnic Minority languages, this excludes white Europeans. There is an imbalance in our country that is exploited by these people. Now we are shown that if we do no accept the terms of these extremist our cities will be bombed. We have all a long way to go, but it is time that the Muslin Community opened itself up to its hosts and learned to integrate into one British Community speaking one language under one Law. We have always been a multi cultural country and until the eighties it worked well, then we handed control to those whose ideals may have been well intentioned but perhaps a little over simplistic, if not misguided.

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Maybe I am way off the mark but the only point I'm making with the wristbands is get the kids while they are young, change their way of thinking! Adults have to many predjudices already instilled in them.

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Regrettably it’s often the adults that embroils their children with there own prejudices. I accept what your saying and I hope that the work that is in progress continues. But we are now beginning to over exploit the idea of wrist bands in the way we did with lapel pins, something which I still buy in order to support a cause.

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I think we'll have to agree to disagree then Doug :) I think they were and still are an excellent idea for getting messages across to children. I have been in earshot of childrens conversations involving them.

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:) Madam. I give way to you and I will stand to defend you belief. I would however ask you to demonstrate what colour you would have these wrist bands and why.

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Good tactical move Doug putting me in a position like that :) may I have time to think on this question?

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Madam. You may................:)

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This might be of interest.

http://www.ajdirectory.co.uk/Society/racism.htm

Re: Wouldn't it be good if........
 

hmmmmmmmm

that is actually a very good idea i have to say

i was thinkin more of ribbons rather than wristbands - they're already on the bottom rung of fashion...

i actually wudnt mind takin up on this - its a good idea - with proceeds going to charities.

colouring ideally wud b green and white. as this are unofficially the colours of islam...

but how wud u go about actually gettin the things into production?

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Well stated Mani. My concern was that we shouldn’t inadvertently cause offence by the misinterpretation in the use of colour. However, and I am looking to encourage constructive dialog not criticise or undermine anyone’s opinion here. Would those colours be seen as supporting Islam above integration of communities?

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Mani, there are many producers of traditional Islamic dress across the North of England. The production of Ribbon shouldn't be that difficult to achieve. But it’s how you control how profits are managed and how the message is understood by all people.

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green and white wud b good
or green white red and blue - colours of islam and the uk flag... but wud they b too many?

doug - getting the right kind of press and the right image is everything but it shouldnt b too hard. i mean amir khan walkin into the reebok stadium with a uk flag and london written on it is a simple gesture yet so effective.

in ur concerns i can understand what ur saying. but if the ribbon was marketed simply as muslims against terrorism - no misinterpretation can really occur rite?

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if the whole thing is done properly - with clarity - it wouldnt be too difficult to get endorsements from orgs such as red cross and the british islamic council.

if the right channels are persued in teh correct manner - and the whole thing is done in such a way where perhaps only the costs are taken out and the rest to charity - it wud be easily done. the wholesale of these items could be all undertaken over the internet.

and people and companies would be more than willing to take such a marketing ideal up to show that they are indeed for islam and against terrorism.

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Accepted and I'm encouraged by your conviction. I think you have solved this issue and it as come to a conclusion it’s now a matter of getting the Elders and the muslin people to accept this gesture. Is it not?

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willow - its just that the original topic to which i was responding to was about muslims against terrorism - and a way of showing their support against terrorism.

in a similar way perhaps non muslims cud wear the same colours to show that they're not anti-islam simply cause of the attacks. that they're not paintin whole religions with the same brush perhaps...

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doug - the elders would jump on such a thing - its a tragedy that there's not more elders who are in the political/public arena who can make statements such as these...

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willow

i'm kinda ahead of u's there...

i've already emailed one guy who makes them as to costs etc - he'll probably call me tomorrow.

just the colours...

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Very good idea mate.

It's about unity, in the face of extremism, regardless of religion.

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Maybe it's up to lots of us the "little people" to set this ball rolling. Then it will reach the public arena and perhaps then more people will have chance to comment in a positive way.

I do wish I could give some more karma in this thread but I've been too generous and it won't let me.

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i was talkin of ribbons - but i guess the kids wud still wear the bands...

i just feel bands are OTT now. that side of things is too saturated with various bands etc...

plus with the ribbons they're wearin them on the chest etc where they can b seen.

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I like the idea of ribbons. Perhaps the Green and White so that both cultures come together as a community and demonstrate religious and cultural harmony. You could have small lapel Ribbons for formal dress and wrist Ribbons for day to day use. I would wear them. Silk Ribbon would be ideal would it not? Would these not be readily available at the Sari shop on Blackburn road so that you could do a mock up?

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and why stop at ribbons and wristbands?

car stickers... t-shirts etc

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One step at at time Mani. But this is good and productive.......

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doug - yeah i know the shop u mean very very well *L*

i'll try to work some out - thing is with the two colours getting the ribbon custom made wud seem to be better than to have time stitchin... but all will b searched in good time.

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Re: Wouldn't it be good if........
 

the germ of this brilliant idea seemed to originate with margaret,others have added too and mani has been very construtive,i would be delighted to wear a ribbon/band alongside any muslims against terror,and would hope so would most people,i sincerly hope this idea gets off the ground and beleive it can do nothing but good. and i'm a cynical sod.

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ladies and gents this idea with the multi coloured bands have been out ages! the one i wear red and green is the countryside alliance which means ban the ban. there also three/four coloured ones. what you need is one like a rainbow? everyone smiles when they see one!

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I have one of those.................

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all the bad ones have....he.hee

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oh we're not sayin its a new thing - we're just sayin its a colour scheme...

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also the thing with the rainbow

thats either gay awareness or aids awareness or sommet

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I think we have come up with a good simple idea that will work for all of us. The simpler we keep it the better it will be. Good luck with this and let’s hope others see it the same way as we do.

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never seen a rainbow one, the most moving one i have seen is the liverpool and heysel disaster band.

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i've not seen one - but i know that its the colours they use.

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Does this help?
http://www.wristbands4u.com/

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http://www.wristbands4u.com/Liverpool.jpegthis is not the one the ones i have seen was red, black, white, and another colour.

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Interesting ideas. But on the issue of colour, you may find it difficult to persuade the majority population to accept colours which are primarily associated with the flag of Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.

A possible solution - Since Britain is the country under threat and since the main object is to encourage the minority to demonstrate their solidarity with the host nation and its values then it seems sensible to choose the national colours of this country; Red, Blue and White.

For members of the host nation it would be a simple matter of patriotism to wear one, for members of the minority groups it would demonstrate that their support lies with the government and with the country rather than merely in the narrow confines of varying interpretations of obscurantist religious doctrine.

Remember, you are asking people to take sides on this issue. The message has to be simple, loud and clear.

Re: Wouldn't it be good if........
 

I too think this is a superb idea. As a way of promoting it once we have a start on the ribbons/bands why not approach the radio stations, Asian and English with a view to getting some press/media attention.

Ian

Re: Wouldn't it be good if........
 

When I went to bed last night I thought we'd decided on red white blue and green. That signifies unity between the red white & blue and green & white. It would be a shame if this didn't get off the ground because we couldn't agree on colours. Personally I liked the idea of shades of beige/cream to dark brown but I think I'm just biased because I like those colours anyway! I'm quite happy to go along with green white red and blue because it's the statement that matters most.

I think it says more about the person rejecting the idea if someone wouldn't wear it as A-b says because:

Tunisia is an Arab muslim country and their flag is red and white so that would even be encompassed by a red white green and blue one. So even if those colours would clash with most of my clothes I think I prefer them.:D

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/a...achmentid=4405




Mani was right about the rainbow coloured ones. Here they are.

Re: Wouldn't it be good if........
 

I don't care if it is a ribbon, a badge, a flower, a wristband.......all I really was trying to get across was......there are a whole lot of people who find terror as a weapon wrong........whatever it takes to get the message across should be used.......I think whatever IS used should bear the words 'not in my name'.....it could be worn by everybody.
Maybe it is even worth considering a wristband for the younger folk and a multi-coloured ribbon or badge for anyone else.

Mani.......good on you for getting involved. And thankyou for those of you who think that the basic idea was good.

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Thanks to all the people who have taken time to respond and all those who have boosted my Karma......you're GEMS......all of you!

Oh........ and if something good does come out of this suggestion, I hope Kipax will be pleased and forgive me for not posting the idea on Monday

Re: Wouldn't it be good if........
 

yeh but what aout when they go on sale and some musilems dont get the wrist bands on that day and you see them and you think they have liked what of gone on but realy thay have not got the rist bands yet

Re: Wouldn't it be good if........
 

I'll see if there is any funding around for this kind of thing. That way we can offer the first batch out free to all the communities in Hyndburn - let's start small with distribution but then see if we can expand it.

When Mani gets the quotes and a colour is decided on I'll see what I can do - no promises as this is a new one on me.

Re: Wouldn't it be good if........
 

Quick question - does Accyweb have anything that could be used as a Constitution. In order to apply for funding from any of the bodies that I know you need a formal adopted constitution.

I've thought of one funding source already that might help but I know we need some sort of formal set up for it.

Re: Wouldn't it be good if........
 

Good on you Gayle......! and MCR ADIM......if you had read what I posted right at the beginning of this thread, you would see that NOT wearing wristband, ribbon, badge......or whatever does NOT mean you are in favour of the atrocities.......but wearing one shows violence was not done in your name.......!

Re: Wouldn't it be good if........
 

I think it is a great idea, but could it also benefit the terrorist supporters by them wearing the bands/ribbons to throw people off the scent.

Re: Wouldn't it be good if........
 

Gayle I think you might have to ask the moderators that one.

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Janet.......I thought about that, but I think that they would not be bothered wearing them, they would be more intent on their dastardly deeds.

Plus the aim is to make the main body of people identify with a condemnation of violence.

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I REALLY do hope this idea takes off.

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Right, it's possible that I might have found a source of funding. This is their criteria below and I think this would fit it.

To improve the management of local communities and groups.
To encourage greater involvement in local community activities.
To help community groups to improve their local neighbourhood.
To help culturally diverse communities explore their culture, history and traditions.
To develop a better understanding of cultural diversity and in so doing promote racial harmony and community cohesion.
To support any other activities by which local community and voluntary groups can contribute to the regeneration of their local area.

Only thing I'm trying to find out is if we've missed the deadline for it, which would mean that we'd have about six months to wait for the next one so it probably wouldn't be worth doing.

If Accyweb doesn't have a constitution I might have to work through another organisation like Hyndburn Women's Forum that I'm involved with. It would still be an Accyweb thing, I'm not trying to take it away just find a way to make it happen.

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Go for it Gayle.......let's make it happen.....one way or another.

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I agree totally with the sentiments behind Margaret's sentiments for starting this thread. If it does get off the ground, good luck to you.

However as someone who has never worn a ribbon or a wristband, for reasons of my own, even though l have had many friends who have died because of AIDS or breastcancer, [the two main reasons for the fashion for ribbons and wristbands starting,] l have my reservations about it's impact.


I hope people across the community who choose not to wear the wristband/ribbon whatever their religious background, will not be targeted as someone who perhaps supports these acts of terror?

Like l posted sometime after reading in the Sunday papers, when the Uncle of one of the Yorkshire bombers said this kind of thing is 'inevitable' because of the way Muslim's are treated in this country, this is the kind of attitude that needs targeting, and won't be solved by us arguing about the colours to be used on this piece of well meaning tokenism.

Re: Wouldn't it be good if........
 

Good point, crossed my mind too. These fanatics would be given a safer passage?

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Just found out that funding source is closed - I'll keep looking.

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After rereading what l just wrote, please nobody feel l am against the noble sentiments behind what was originally intended.

We must all pull together to stand up to face what is happening.

Mani, because you are the only Asian member on here [that we know about], you are a star, and thanks for getting involved in the debate. Your participation is just as important as every other member of Accy Web regardless. We don't expect you to act as a spokesperson, but your input is appreciated mate.

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I've found another couple of possibilities - Danial Thwaites have a charitable fund and so does the Co-op. I've downloaded all the forms - all I need now is the cost of producing the wristbands so that I can fill in the forms and send off. Who's finding that out for us?

I'd suggest we distribute them for free because I doubt anyone would want to be involved in collecting money plus it makes it difficult with the application forms as you have to work out profits v cost etc. Better to go for the full cost of producing them from these funds then hand them out for free. Both of these funds only give out small amounts of less than £500 so we'd have to be realistic for the production quantity.

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As in the reply to Janet's post........it isn't really about giving someone a safer passage......it is about making your voice heard........letting the world know that the acts of inhumanity were not done in the name of Islam or any other religion for that matter.
There has been much publicity about the abuse of Asians since the bombings.......it let's muslims demonstrate their solidarity.......and I believe that non-muslims would also identify with this sentiment too. The reaction to this thread proves that...even though it may be only a small way.

I too, am not fond of wristbands ribbons etc.......but I wear a pink ribbon for Breast cancer......and I did wear a black ribbon on Pricess Diana's death.......I would certainly wear one of these if they existed.

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in reply to this i would say- if you think negative,thats all you end up with.

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Cashman.... that is so true...!

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Like l said, l support the sentiment.

l would be happier if ordinary law abiding British Muslims would perhaps organise demonstrations of support for the police in helping to stop this on going campaign of terror.

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The fact that Mani has given his input is very important.......after all he is closest to the muslim community and can tell us whether this is a viable idea.......which I hope it is.

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hi folks - just woke up
i've gone and done the most stupid thing. i left my fone at work last nite!

acrylic - the reasons those countries have those colours is cause of the religion. in hte pakistan flag the green represents muslims and the white non-muslims.. on hte saudi the flag is representative of the one Prophet mohammed (PBUH) used to represent muslims..

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oh yeah i was crashing my mind on a name for something like this

Not in my name.
peace for all.
muslims against terrorism

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Please don’t let this fizzle out. It’s not often that enough people come together and develop an idea born here on accyweb, all too often the few that do come together drift apart when someone later brings up an appropriate comment or sees an obstacle that would have other wise have been missed. The original idea was based on good foundations. What is important is that a small multicultural group of individuals came together and set a small part of accyweb on fire with an idea that could lead to change and understanding. If that only relates to the surrounding area then all well and good. At least some got up and did something.

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It won't - but I can't complete the forms without a cost for production.

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I would have thought that a simple linkage of equal lengths of thin cut Green and White ribbon inter woven with a single multi coloured thread representing the Union Flag would have met the requirements of all interested parties...................It’s what it represents and how its message is sold to the public that’s important.

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Mani said in an earlier thread that he might be up for contacting someone with a view to production.....is that still an option Mani?

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I know..

Another thing we'd all have to agree on is what wording we would want on the wrist band? They usually have a short message.

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Just cut two lengths of ribbon, one green one white and either make then into a band with a knot joining both ends or curl then a la breast cancer and put a stich in them.

I reckon you could make thousands for £100

Ian

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Forgot to say, Why not also approach the Observer and get them to buy in. They may even stump up some cash!

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A couple of places that do wrist bands. We could either order stock items or have them made with wording on specific to us - this affects the cost.

http://www.wristbands.co.uk/fundbands.htm

http://www.mailorderwristbands.co.uk...menu=wholesale

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This could be done quite simply. What are we looking at in terms of sizing? One for children and one for Adults? I would stay away from moulded type products unless your production run is going to be in the millions.

If you went with the ribbon idea, the production and material cost would be minimal. You might even get a producer to donate the ribbon and coloured thread on rolls that would just need cutting to length and tying off. Then you would have more of your funding available for packaging and for getting your main message across which is perhaps the must important part. Wearing a band is fine, if those seeing it doesn’t know what it represents then you’ve wasted you time.

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Blood and stone are two words that come to mind!

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We could try... I'm not saying we shouldn't but don't hold your breath.

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What about 'Not in my Name'.........only because that was on the posters held by muslims at the silence and at the vigil........and it does say it all.

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on the bands we cud have united for peace or something along those lines?