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garinda 26-01-2006 21:53

Sex headlines.
 
'SORDID SEX SITE SPARKS ACTION CALL'

This is the front page headline of this week's Observer.




It is basically an atempt by Councillor Brendan Sheil to get a gate barring access to the bottom of the King's Highway.

The sensational headline is because someone, either the Councillor or the journalist, has found the place listed on an adult web site, as a place where doggers meet.

There is no evidence that anything of the sort happens there. The information was posted on the web site approximately three years ago. This is just one person's comment on a forum, about videos being left under rocks, and a couple going there on Fridays to be watched having sex.

The police are quoted as saying that they have had no complaints from the public.

A gate may well stop people driving up there and fly tipping, it may well also deter the travellers from setting up camp.

Using sensational headlines, with no other evidence than one poster on an adult forum three years ago, may well attract undesirable people to this place.

I hope the Observer and Councillor Shiel are ready to face the flack if a load of perverts and boy racers now descend on the area.

WillowTheWhisp 26-01-2006 21:56

Re: Sex headlines.
 
The words "prophecy" and "self-fulfilling" come to mind. :rolleyes:

Doug 26-01-2006 22:02

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Doggers? You’ll have to forgive me; I can imagine to what you’re alluding too but I not sure. All too often misleading comments or overly exposed publicity results in an increase of the activities they are trying to avoid.

What they fail to do is either seek or listen to advice before going public. I am happy to off my services at a miserly 30k per annum based on a four day week and a season ticket for IES.

garinda 26-01-2006 22:06

Re: Sex headlines.
 
It just seems such a non story to merit such a sensational front page headline.

The campaign for a gate is probably a good thing.

This just smacks of lazy jouralism though, a bit like when they found Accrington mentioned on a web site about Chavs, and created another non story out of fresh air. This one post has been there for years, it is not new, or news.

simon 26-01-2006 22:10

Re: Sex headlines.
 
I'm off now too have a look and dump some carling cans :)

garinda 26-01-2006 22:13

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by simon
I'm off now too have a look and dump some carling cans :)


According to the Observer the couple go there on Fridays.

The cars will be queuing up from the roundabout tomorrow, set off now.

Lockie25 26-01-2006 22:23

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda
It just seems such a non story to merit such a sensational front page headline.
This one post has been there for years, it is not new, or news.

Hear hear!

simon 26-01-2006 22:28

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda
According to the Observer the couple go there on Fridays.

This couple goes on thursdays :)

WillowTheWhisp 26-01-2006 22:30

Re: Sex headlines.
 
A few real dogs up there, dobermans and rottweilers, should put 'em off.

chav1 26-01-2006 22:32

Re: Sex headlines.
 
i was over the kings highway just the other night and no doggers there then...?

before you ask when younger me and my m8 used to take the land rover up there and go across the kings highway

sadly my pegeot 206 was not upto the job and i had to turn around and come home

grannyclaret 26-01-2006 23:12

Re: Sex headlines.
 
(well ****** me with a big stick....)
Sorry it was just an old saying from my past.that came to mind,,,,..
havent heard that one for years ...:eek:

Doug 26-01-2006 23:13

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by grannyclaret
(well ****** me with a big stick....)
Sorry it was just an old saying from my past.that came to mind,,,,..
havent heard that one for years ...:eek:

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: I remember that One :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

garinda 26-01-2006 23:15

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Not sure but I think the journalist is our Vitty.

Will be interesting to see if it was him, or the good Councillor, who was trawling adult sites for sensational stories that paint Accy this way.

Doug 26-01-2006 23:19

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug
Doggers? You’ll have to forgive me; I can imagine to what you’re alluding too but I not sure.

Oh dear, the penny’s just dropped…………Grim, why don’t they stick “no pun intended” to portaloos and tram shelters like they do up here.

Doug 26-01-2006 23:28

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda
Not sure but I think the journalist is our Vitty.

Will be interesting to see if it was him, or the good Councillor, who was trawling adult sites for sensational stories that paint Accy this way.

In view of the obligatory “gay witch hunt” and clear out before electing a new leader at lib dem head-quarters, one does wonder what this individual was doing…….the question is be they “Beef Beater or Beef Eater” it doesn’t paint a pretty picture of the place does it. Reportage or muck raking?

Madhatter 26-01-2006 23:50

Re: Sex headlines.
 
dogging is when a girl or girls go to a usually open public place and meet up with a group of guys, some guys have sex with her, while the others watch doggers meet in virtually every town in the uk, it just depends when and where they choose to meet. The girl is often a member of a swingers club or a prostitute.
They may well have met there that day three years ago, may have since or may not have. They have regular gogging meets in blackpool car parks, are they going to fence those off too. What they should do is sack this idiot n make him get a life, because you will get people turning up now.
No I've never been, never taken part, and don't want to but know people who have.

Doug 27-01-2006 00:02

Re: Sex headlines.
 
****** me, I never knew that…………..I must have had a sheltered life; I thought it was the same thing but same sex.

I agree that there’s got to be much more news worthy stories to focus on without digging this crap up, that said I’ve yet to read the paper.

garinda 27-01-2006 00:05

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug
****** me, I never knew that…………..I must have had a sheltered life; I thought it was the same thing but same sex.

I agree that there’s got to be much more news worthy stories to focus on without digging this crap up, that said I’ve yet to read the paper.

Wondered why you were twittering on about the Lib Dems.:confused:

No it's the hetrosexuals that do it.

shakermaker 27-01-2006 00:05

Re: Sex headlines.
 
I don't and would never bother with newspapers for anything other than the sports results and weather...........everything else is just a pack of lies or just reporting bad news...who wants to know that?

shakermaker 27-01-2006 00:07

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda
No it's the hetrosexuals that do it.

Lol, garinda you make 'us heterosexuals' sound like that noisy neighbour that everyone has living on the corner!

garinda 27-01-2006 00:07

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by shakermaker
I don't and would never bother with newspapers for anything other than the sports results and weather...........everything else is just a pack of lies or just reporting bad news...who wants to know that?


Come on Shakey, I bet you always vote in the bonny dog/cat/baby competition.:D

garinda 27-01-2006 00:10

Re: Sex headlines.
 
By the way this isn't a thread I started to titilate or shock, I was genuinely disgusted at the headline, and there not really being a story there at all.

Doug 27-01-2006 00:13

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Well, 46 and still learning…......I got some bino's somewhere.:D :D :D

Doug 27-01-2006 00:14

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda
By the way this isn't a thread I started to titilate or shock, I was genuienly disgusted at the headline, and there not really being a story there at all.

Granted. :) I’ll pop over after work and have a look.

garinda 27-01-2006 00:19

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug
Granted. :) I’ll pop over after work and have a look.


At the paper, or the traffic jam of perverts going up the King's Highway?:D

Acrylic-bob 27-01-2006 04:07

Re: Sex headlines.
 
People having sex? Euurrghh! How disgusting! Acrylic-biff and I have been up there many times and no one has ever asked us to join in!

Actually, the main problem with Kings Highway is a long running problem with Fly Tipping. I can't blame the people from Miry Farm and Cold Harbour Farm for complaining about it - after all, who wants to have to drive through a rubbish dump to get to and from their homes?

As usual, the problem is one of HBC not doing its job properly, would it really be so expensive to have a bin wagon pop up there once in a while?

Neil 27-01-2006 05:22

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob
People having sex? Euurrghh! How disgusting! Acrylic-biff and I have been up there many times and no one has ever asked us to join in!

I think you missed the post explaining that dogging is between hetrosexuals A-B, that means Acrylic-biff can't join in ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acrylic-bob
As usual, the problem is one of HBC not doing its job properly, would it really be so expensive to have a bin wagon pop up there once in a while?

Sorry to go against the majority of this site and not slag of HBC ;). If a bin wagon did just pop over once in a while then would it not make the problem worse? People too lazy to go to Whinney Hill would just dump their rubbish there instead, happy in the knowledge that HBC had turned it into a semi-official dump because a bin wagon would just pop over and clean up the area. It's simple enough to me, you use the correct disposal methods for your rubbish or you should be fined/jailed. I think where HBC does let us all down is by not convicting enough fly tippers.

chav1 27-01-2006 05:24

Re: Sex headlines.
 
now i know what dogging is could someone please explain teabaging and what brand of tea bag gives best results..

thankyou

Less 27-01-2006 05:47

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chav1
now i know what dogging is could someone please explain teabaging and what brand of tea bag gives best results..

thankyou

Tea-bagging or as it's often known, have another biscuit, is an act often performed on you by maiden aunts.

Once they have enticed you into their front room or as the professionals call it 'the parlour', they ply you with numerous cups of light brown liquid which is used to wash down chocolate coated digestives or if they are really good at the art home made scones, they always ensure that you are using the best and most delicate china that they had bought for their bottom drawer some 50 years before.
You will be strategically placed so that there is no table within arms reach just so they can enjoy you trying to juggle the scalding hot liquid and the tiny plate of delicacies. You will have to remain in this position for anything between two and three hours without being permitted a toilet break.
When you finally think of a reasonable excuse that will ensure her permission for you to finally leave she will make sure that you part feeling guilty about not visiting as often as you should espescially now that they are getting on a bit.

You leave knowing that you will have to got through this again next week as well.

Avoid this people whenever you can, they seem sweet and innocent,
But they do know what they have put you through and enjoy every sick minute of it!


Less 27-01-2006 05:50

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Oops posted twice


Less 27-01-2006 05:51

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chav1
now i know what dogging is could someone please explain teabaging and what brand of tea bag gives best results..

thankyou

Tea-bagging or as it's often known, have another biscuit, is an act often performed on you by maiden aunts.

Once they have enticed you into their front room or as the professionals call it 'the parlour', they ply you with numerous cups of light brown liquid which is used to wash down chocolate coated digestives or if they are really good at the art home made scones, they always ensure that you are using the best and most delicate china that they had bought for their bottom drawer some 50 years before.
You will be strategically placed so that there is no table within arms reach just so they can enjoy you trying to juggle the scalding hot liquid and the tiny plate of delicacies. You will have to remain in this position for anything between two and three hours without being permitted a toilet break.
When you finally think of a reasonable excuse that will ensure her permission for you to leave she will make sure that you part feeling guilty about not visiting as often as you should espescially now that they are getting on a bit.

You leave knowing that you will have to got through this again next week as well.

Avoid these people whenever you can, they seem sweet and innocent,
But they do know what they have put you through and enjoy every sick minute of it!


Neil 27-01-2006 05:51

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chav1
now i know what dogging is could someone please explain teabaging and what brand of tea bag gives best results..

thankyou

Anything for you mate.

sorry link taken off there are children on here please remember this thankyou

Neil 27-01-2006 05:52

Re: Sex headlines.
 
You can find the answer to all questions on the internet. What a tomb of knowledge it has become.

chav1 27-01-2006 05:53

Re: Sex headlines.
 
wow less and there was me thinking it was dipping your bollox in somones gob :confused:

chav1 27-01-2006 06:04

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil
You can find the answer to all questions on the internet. What a tomb of knowledge it has become.

god bless the net

Gayle 27-01-2006 08:39

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Before I start, I'm not defending this headline or this article in any way, shape or form but I do just want to add -

One of the reasons that people go to the papers is desperation with a situation. If they have repeatedly spoken to the authorities about an issue and there has been no resolution to it. It almost guarantees action from the Council because the last thing that any one from the Council wants is to be portrayed in the press in a bad light. I know we all say that today's newspaper is tomorrow's chip paper but papers are archived, history is written and no one likes to be consigned to history in a bad way.

Papers will only print a big story if they can find an 'angle' - a few local residents getting a bit cheesed off at the Council for not putting a gate up wouldn't be enough of a story - they need to hang it on something.

I can only assume in this instance that the locals were desperate for the fly tipping situation to be resolved but had already tried that tack so had to try other tactics.

Like I said, I'm on the fence about this story because I don't know the exact details or the history.

Tealeaf 27-01-2006 09:25

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Surely, logic suggests that when all the rubbish is cleared up and obstacles are placed to restrict further tipping, then the place will become a much more attractive dogging site? Is this not a cunning ploy by the good people of Huncoat, whose community , it is strongly rumoured, pocesses one of the largest numbers of doggers & swingers in England?

garinda 27-01-2006 10:09

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle
Before I start, I'm not defending this headline or this article in any way, shape or form but I do just want to add -

One of the reasons that people go to the papers is desperation with a situation. If they have repeatedly spoken to the authorities about an issue and there has been no resolution to it. It almost guarantees action from the Council because the last thing that any one from the Council wants is to be portrayed in the press in a bad light. I know we all say that today's newspaper is tomorrow's chip paper but papers are archived, history is written and no one likes to be consigned to history in a bad way.

Papers will only print a big story if they can find an 'angle' - a few local residents getting a bit cheesed off at the Council for not putting a gate up wouldn't be enough of a story - they need to hang it on something.

I can only assume in this instance that the locals were desperate for the fly tipping situation to be resolved but had already tried that tack so had to try other tactics.

Like I said, I'm on the fence about this story because I don't know the exact details or the history.


Up to a point I agree. I have said that the longed for gate is probably a good idea, and if I was campaiging for one I would look for an angle on it too.

Sadly, screaming, sensationalist, front page headlines, all based around one three year old post on an adult web site, with no other evidence, and no police complaints, seems excessive in the extreme, and will probably lead to more problems for the area.

Neil 27-01-2006 11:27

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Will fly tippers not just dump in front of the gate when they get there to find there favourite dump has been gated off. It's the fly tippers that need sorting out not the tipping locations in most cases.
What will be the negative effect of the gate?
Will it stop innocent people doing innocent things?

garinda 27-01-2006 11:30

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil
Will fly tippers not just dump in front of the gate when they get there to find there favourite dump has been gated off. It's the fly tippers that need sorting out not the tipping locations in most cases.
What will be the negative effect of the gate?
Will it stop innocent people doing innocent things?

I'm not sure. It may well barr access to anyone in a car, which will be a great pity. It's a hell of a climb, and would deny any less able bodied people the chance to see some magnificant views from the top.

garinda 27-01-2006 11:41

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil
Will fly tippers not just dump in front of the gate when they get there to find there favourite dump has been gated off. It's the fly tippers that need sorting out not the tipping locations in most cases.
What will be the negative effect of the gate?
Will it stop innocent people doing innocent things?

It's a very good point. Why is this place more worthy than anywhere else to be gated?

Fly tipping should be the target, not denying access to everyone. I can think of four places in Oswaldtwistle that are regularly targeted by fly tippers, including the picnic area on Haslingden Old Road. Should that have a gate accross it as well, which would stop fly tipping but would deny anyone else access too.

Fly tipping should be the story, not old unfounded comments on adult web sites.

It took HBC five weeks last summer to remove a chair, after I asked for it to be removed. It's little wonder people resort to calling rubbish removal 'firms' in the press, many of whom are unlicenced and dump the rubbish illegally, because unlike domestic waste the Council charge for businesses to dump their rubbish at the offical tip.

Sounds a much better story than the sordid sex site etc.

vitty 27-01-2006 14:06

Re: Sex headlines.
 
I wrote the story. Here's what happened:


I was having a regular phone chat with Brendan Shiel about Huncoat happenings.

He mentioned the background to this land and said flytipping and other activities were going on and that the council had agreed to put up a gate in October.

Yet the gate wasn't up, he said - so where was it?

He mentioned the site may have been referred to on the internet. I did a Google search, found the website and we quoted it in the article.

In the meantime, I got a council comment on their intention to put up the gate in the next few weeks.

I submitted the story, which included background on resident's/councillors attempts to get a gate.

The editor read it and asked me for more background. He asked me to have another go at it and to change the angle from the gate to the sexual activity, with a bit more detail from the website content.

Residents didn't have any involvement until I called one of them and asked for his opinion. He said it wasn't pleasant people were doing these things. We didn't use his quotes because of lack of space.

We got a police statement, and they advised us not to use the website content, because it may attract people there for the wrong reasons.

All content was included at the discretion of the editor.

I'm glad to see it's provoked so much debate and you all bought the paper.

chav1 27-01-2006 14:16

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vitty
I'm glad to see it's provoked so much debate and you all bought the paper.

actualy we buy one copy and pass it around

thats why it takes some of us a bit longer to reply :)

Neil 27-01-2006 14:25

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vitty
We got a police statement, and they advised us not to use the website content, because it may attract people there for the wrong reasons.

Nice to now the Observer is interested in helping out our local Police Force :mad:

Neil 27-01-2006 14:26

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chav1
actualy we buy one copy and pass it around

thats why it takes some of us a bit longer to reply :)

I think it's time you scanned it to pdf and emailed it all to us :D

vitty 27-01-2006 14:47

Re: Sex headlines.
 
There are lots of things we would never include on police request. Things which could provoke crime that never appear in the papers. Local reports can't afford to get on the wrong side of them too often else they lose crime stories.

But on stories like this, police can only ultimately give guidance - which we ask for in advance - and then it is down to us reporters to pass on such guidance to the editor, who makes a judgement call and lives by it.

You may not think it, but in my experience, newspaper editors are much more knowledgable on the law regarding what a paper can and cannot say about subjects.

e.g. officers are quite happy to give details of incidents even after offenders have been charged and sometimes question why we don't use them.

The reality is that, in this situation, if we did use those details, we'd be guilty of contempt of court because revealing incident details could prejudice resulting court cases.

garinda 27-01-2006 17:37

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vitty
I wrote the story. Here's what happened:


I was having a regular phone chat with Brendan Shiel about Huncoat happenings.

He mentioned the background to this land and said flytipping and other activities were going on and that the council had agreed to put up a gate in October.

Yet the gate wasn't up, he said - so where was it?

He mentioned the site may have been referred to on the internet. I did a Google search, found the website and we quoted it in the article.

In the meantime, I got a council comment on their intention to put up the gate in the next few weeks.

I submitted the story, which included background on resident's/councillors attempts to get a gate.

The editor read it and asked me for more background. He asked me to have another go at it and to change the angle from the gate to the sexual activity, with a bit more detail from the website content.

Residents didn't have any involvement until I called one of them and asked for his opinion. He said it wasn't pleasant people were doing these things. We didn't use his quotes because of lack of space.

We got a police statement, and they advised us not to use the website content, because it may attract people there for the wrong reasons.

All content was included at the discretion of the editor.

I'm glad to see it's provoked so much debate and you all bought the paper.

Thank you Vitty.

Interesting point that it was Councillor Shiel who came across the dogging information on the internet, regarding this non story.

Also interesting how the Editor went against police advice, and did publish nearly every salacious detail from the web site, such as people leaving video tapes under rocks, and the day that a couple went there to be watched.

Your comment about how you are glad your story caused so much debate, and how we all bought the paper is a little worrying. Are we to expect more sensationalist headlined stories in the Observer with no real evidence to back them up?

If I was to write on this web site that today I saw two ducks mating on the lodge at Foxhill Nature Reserve, could we expect to see the headline in next week's Observer-

'VOYEUR IN ANIMAL SEX STORM IN OSWALDTWISTLE'?

Madhatter 27-01-2006 17:58

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tealeaf
Surely, logic suggests that when all the rubbish is cleared up and obstacles are placed to restrict further tipping, then the place will become a much more attractive dogging site? Is this not a cunning ploy by the good people of Huncoat, whose community , it is strongly rumoured, pocesses one of the largest numbers of doggers & swingers in England?

haha more civic pride , I like it.
I was going to point out the romours in my first post but thought better of it, but yes the whole area accy, rawtenstall, bacup, is apparently supposed to have the highest percentage of swingers doggers in the uk.

Vity, do you really think that this piece of land has/is used for dogging? Has any resident actually confirmed that they've saw this happen ?
And if so could they tell us were the best vantage point is.

Madhatter 27-01-2006 18:08

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Yes it was at your discretion, and yes it was legal, but hardly fair on the local residents who are trying to get rid of fly tippers and just want a quiet life. You've just nationally advertised a piece of land as the main dogging site in the north west.

Gayle 27-01-2006 18:12

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda
Up to a point I agree. I have said that the longed for gate is probably a good idea, and if I was campaiging for one I would look for an angle on it too.

Sadly, screaming, sensationalist, front page headlines, all based around one three year old post on an adult web site, with no other evidence, and no police complaints, seems excessive in the extreme, and will probably lead to more problems for the area.


I didn't say that it wouldn't. I didn't make a point for you to agree or disagree with. I was merely pointing out the way that some people use the media as a tactic to get things done. It's not a tactic I particularly like but it is a fact that going to the papers is a threat and a last resort if an issue is not resolved.

However, I do agree with your comments that it will, in this instance, probably make things worse.

Doug 27-01-2006 18:14

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Having now read this story all I can say is its tardy, misleading and blatantly treats the residents of Hyndburn with utter contempt.

You took a story that you knew to be factually dated and inaccurate and opened the door to these sensation seekers all over again. When the police give guidance it’s usually based on known principles, i.e. don’t advertise something you want to avoid, these doggers may well now believe that it’s game on.

Innocent people wishing to walk up there may be caused undue concern and even feel excluded from a public area because of the fear and distaste that this form of reporting as brought them. All shorts of dross will be creeping round intimidated innocent people with the suggestion that they might wish to participate in a bit of woof.

Humour apart, this will also be seen by local pervs as an opportunity to thrill seek in an area the time had put behind it……I hope no one gets hurt or assaulted up there because you and your editor chose to expose the people of Hyndburn to this smut and promote an out dated set of directions back to this area.

garinda 27-01-2006 18:17

Re: Sex headlines.
 
The whole story is based on one anonymous posting on an adult site. There is not one bit of evidence that anything sordid has even taken place, yet it merits a front page story, and goes against police advice. Disgraceful.

Neil 27-01-2006 18:19

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug
Having now read this story all I can say is its tardy, misleading and blatantly treats the residents of Hyndburn with utter contempt.

So I take it you wont miss him when he leaves then.

garinda 27-01-2006 18:23

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil
So I take it you wont miss him when he leaves then.

No, according to Vitty it was Councillor Shiel who found the information on the adult site, and the Editor who got Vitty to publish salacious details, going against police advice, all to sell papers.

Oh for the days when the Observer wasn't in tabloid form, and didn't stoop to tabloid tactics to sell copies, but relied on good journalism and real stories.

Doug 27-01-2006 18:24

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle
I didn't say that it wouldn't. I didn't make a point for you to agree or disagree with. I was merely pointing out the way that some people use the media as a tactic to get things done. It's not a tactic I particularly like but it is a fact that going to the papers is a threat and a last resort if an issue is not resolved.

However, I do agree with your comments that it will, in this instance, probably make things worse.

Gayle, this form of Journalism is nothing more than distasteful sensationalism that won’t serve any purpose than shame local residents, draw the attention of idiots, perverts and unfortunately inquisitive children into the area, normally in these case’s its usually the latter that are feed upon by those we try to keep away from the innocent and vulnerable.

If this is seen as a legitimate means to an end then I would seek the resignations of those responsible and an immediate apology to the people of Hyndburn…..

Please note, had these incident had happened in the last couple of weeks and harm had been caused then it may have been News.

Doug 27-01-2006 18:32

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil
So I take it you wont miss him when he leaves then.

It’s not personal; I think two people have made an error of Judgement in the manner in which they have reported this matter.

I would have expected half a column in the middle of the paper with a foot note expressing that this was an old story that might interest those seeking to have a gate fitted to prevent the area going to the dogs (Someone had to say it). The Councillor isn’t out of the woofs either.

As I said, it’s not personal Vitty, but perhaps sometimes its better to admit an error and make adjustments.

Doug 27-01-2006 18:38

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda
No, according to Vitty it was Councillor Shiel who found the information on the adult site, and the Editor who got Vitty to publish salacious details, going against police advice, all to sell papers.

Oh for the days when the Observer wasn't in tabloid form, and didn't stoop to tabloid tactics to sell copies, but relied on good journalism and real stories.

Responsibility and Accountability rests with the reporter, it’s his job to ensure that the Facts are reported, never the less, the three of them should have thought this one through a little more. Furthermore I’d like to know what a Councillor was doing trawling through Adult web sites in the first place, has he never heard of the Lib Dems?

vitty 27-01-2006 19:22

Re: Sex headlines.
 
okay, I'll address the last comment first and move backwards.

Doug: The story is 100 per cent factually correct. Tell me what is inaccurate.

Councillor Shiel mentioned that he'd heard of the existence of such a website...he never gave the impression he'd seen it. I found it directly.

How have we made an error of judgement? As I've said before: the contentof the story is the end responsibility of the editor and I know what he is likely to allow to be in and what he is likely to exclude on the grounds of taste or ambiguity.

How is it an 'old' story? The councillor was asking this week 'where are the gates?' The council said this week the gates will be up in the next few weeks.

Whether the story is distateful or not is your opinion. The fact that it is going on at all may be interprted by some as distasteful. Again, how the editor chooses to present it is up to him.

If we presentented accurate information sensatiionally - great. We're paid to make articles as readable as possible.

With regards to the purpose that it serves:The article has arguably helped speed up the amount of time it will take to get the gate to keep out all but those who have keys.

How is it shaming local residents?

Who would you like to apologise and what for? We work to the Press Complaints Commission code of conduct. Tell me what rule we have broken in it and I'll personally apologise to you, Doug :)


Garinda - the Observer may be in tabloid form, but we are not in the same ilk as the daily nationals. We consider ourselves a family newspaper. The Sun doesn't have Junior League etc.

I agree with the rest of what you said in your most recent post (but again, it's all in the editor's hands) apart from the bit about "all to sell papers". Our main aim is to write stories to inform, entertain and present things that are in the public interest. You don't sell papers otherwise.

Garinda - as for your first post. with all due respect, how do you know what the story is based on "one anonymous posting?"

At the start of last year residents attended Huncoat Are Council to complain about this going on, we quoted it at the time.

They then went back to the area council to try to get a gate. Another resident then told Lancashire County Council about the problem in October...again we quoted them.

Councillors, council workers and residents have all gone in the record in the past about sexual activity going on on the site. I spoke one resident yesterday morning who said his children and grandchildren were having to walk/drive past couples in cars to get to home to his farm.

Yes it does merit a front-page story - look how much reaction we've had. It's the talk of the town. Sex always is.

Madhatter - those residents will get their gate to block off the track...that's what they've been ask for for 12 months. Yes, I do think this land is used for dogging.

fireman 27-01-2006 19:26

Re: Sex headlines.
 
I was surprised on looking at the website HUNCOAT DOGGING to find a link through a member back to Accy Web.

Mick 27-01-2006 19:28

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Please remember this is a family site and there are young children on here reading this thankyou.

fireman 27-01-2006 20:16

Re: Sex headlines.
 
fully 100% aware of that mick and that is the reason for my post.

Gayle 27-01-2006 20:17

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug
Gayle, this form of Journalism is nothing more than distasteful sensationalism that won’t serve any purpose than shame local residents, draw the attention of idiots, perverts and unfortunately inquisitive children into the area, normally in these case’s its usually the latter that are feed upon by those we try to keep away from the innocent and vulnerable.

If this is seen as a legitimate means to an end then I would seek the resignations of those responsible and an immediate apology to the people of Hyndburn…..

Please note, had these incident had happened in the last couple of weeks and harm had been caused then it may have been News.

Yes, I agree with you - but this is one of those 'don't shoot the messenger' moments. I said, right at the beginning that I don't condone the story all I was doing was informing you of the way that stories get to the press. I'm not defending or arguing it either way. Stop bringing me into it to argue against it because I'm not for it in the first place.

Doug 27-01-2006 20:20

Re: Sex headlines.
 
You will have to forgive me :) I'm like a dog with a bone sometimes and all to often I'll bark without cause, but without wishing to offend, may I ask?

Is a comment made on a web site three years ago, current news?

Your article states categorically that;

“SEX-MAD couples are visiting a quiet Huncoat spot for the sordid act of "dogging", it was revealed this week”

What proof is there that doggers are currently active in the area?

Did you editor purposely seek to spice up a dull one column inch piece about HBC failure to place gate in an area to prevent Fly tipping?

Did or did not the police ask you not to report on the matters of doggers, if so, what guidance did they give and for what reason.

I have a large car park close to me, if I thought it was being used for the purpose of dogging I wouldn’t it across the front page of my local paper, mud stick’s. It stigmatises the area and may affect local property prices. People are also quick to point the finger, in particular Kids at people that live in such areas.

At the end of the day Vitty I am expressing my opinions on the matter and how it was reported. If I am wrong so be it, if these people come flocking back to Huncoat it would be because of what I have said.

Will the Police be expected to increase policing to calm local fears and protect residents from sexual activity between consenting adults? (That doesn’t mean I think its right) or will they be there to catch fly tippers until the gate goes up.

If in my interpretation of what I’ve read and responded too is misleading people, I will write a public apology in your letters page. :) :o

Doug 27-01-2006 20:26

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle
Yes, I agree with you - but this is one of those 'don't shoot the messenger' moments. I said, right at the beginning that I don't condone the story all I was doing was informing you of the way that stories get to the press. I'm not defending or arguing it either way. Stop bringing me into it to argue against it because I'm not for it in the first place.

Sorry...................:o

Gayle 27-01-2006 20:28

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Forgiven......:)

Doug 27-01-2006 20:36

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle
Forgiven......:)

Fancy a walk later?..........................:D

Gayle 27-01-2006 20:40

Re: Sex headlines.
 
I'm not going near any car parks with you :D

Madhatter 27-01-2006 20:40

Re: Sex headlines.
 
What is your opinion based on vitty, did you have any other proof other than a post on a web site from 3 years ago. This post sounds like an invite to watch a couple having sex, there's no proof they actually did and that anybody turned up, or is there photographic evidence?

Hi to the doggers and swingers, esp the ones from the good ship venus and ceasers.

Madhatter 27-01-2006 20:44

Re: Sex headlines.
 
ask 'slut suzie' doug she's from blackpool and I'm sure she'd oblige.

garinda 27-01-2006 20:46

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Vitty you asked how I knew the information you used was old. and where it came from.

I won't name the web site, as this is a family forum. It isn't hard to find using a search engine.

I stand by my comment that this anonymous posting about Accrington has been there for three years. Other than this one persons posting there is no evidence at all that anything of this sort has ever taken place there, which is backed up by the police comments that they haven't received any complaints from the public, who either live or enjoy this area quite legally.

I also stand by my comment that the headline was worthy of a red top tabloid, mainly because this is still a non-story. Just as the story of Accrington being mentioned on a Chav web site was, mainly because again one person's comments had been posted there for months.

Hardly current affairs.

Doug 27-01-2006 20:53

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Madhatter
ask 'slut suzie' doug she's from blackpool and I'm sure she'd oblige.

Friend of yours...........:D . I didn't know these things happened in public, sad or what. Knee Tremblers behind the Nag, fine. This, I would never have thought it..:D

garinda 27-01-2006 20:54

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Just a little post script, for perhaps the Editor of the Observer to ponder after their story about couples being watched, and videos hidden under rocks etc.

The Lancashire Evening Telegraph did a similar story about a place where this sort of thing does actually, occur unlike Accrington. The residents of the nearby village were, and still are, plauged with boy racers and perverts than were ever there before.

Neil 27-01-2006 21:41

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Is something underhand happening on AccyWeb?
I had a link removed on post 32 of this thread with the comment
Quote:

sorry link taken off there are children on here please remember this thankyou
Fair enough it may have been a little iffy but was only a link to answers.com relating to the subject in hand, but I will not argue with a moderators decision. In post 34 chav1 posted a description of a sexual act and this has not been moved. Is he getting some sort of special treatment because he is gay?

Doug 27-01-2006 21:47

Re: Sex headlines.
 
He never is.................:eek:

garinda 27-01-2006 22:29

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug
He never is.................:eek:

Off thread, but since he's not here to defend himself, no he isn't, it's Neil being daft.

Gayle 27-01-2006 22:31

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Aw, I wasn't going to tell him...

Doug 27-01-2006 22:32

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda
Off thread, but since he's not here to defend himself, no he isn't, it's Neil being daft.

Never, well I'll go t'bottom of our stairs. :D

garinda 27-01-2006 22:32

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gayle
Aw, I wasn't going to tell him...


Yes but knowing me I might be fibbing.;)

Double bluff 'n' all that.

Doug 27-01-2006 22:34

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda
Yes but knowing me I might be fibbing.;)

Double buff 'n' all that.

:confused: Double buff 'n' all that? is that like dogging then.............:rolleyes:

harwood red 27-01-2006 23:14

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil
Is something underhand happening on AccyWeb?
I had a link removed on post 32 of this thread with the comment

Fair enough it may have been a little iffy but was only a link to answers.com relating to the subject in hand, but I will not argue with a moderators decision. In post 34 chav1 posted a description of a sexual act and this has not been moved. Is he getting some sort of special treatment because he is gay?

May mince a bit sometimes but oh he is def not gay!!!! :p

Neil 27-01-2006 23:43

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by harwood red
May mince a bit sometimes but oh he is def not gay!!!! :p

And you know how?

harwood red 27-01-2006 23:45

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil
And you know how?

Hey I know his girlfriend and you know how girls like to talk :D

Neil 27-01-2006 23:47

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by harwood red
Hey I know his girlfriend and you know how girls like to talk :D

She must be a big desperate, seeing a gay bloke. Anyway that only proves he is bi :D

harwood red 27-01-2006 23:55

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil
She must be a big desperate, seeing a gay bloke. Anyway that only proves he is bi :D

Think I will retreat from this one now as I can only see it heading one way and thats downhill!!!! Oooo Neil you can be soooo naughty though :p

Neil 27-01-2006 23:57

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Ok Ok I am only teasing, I admit it Chav is not gay, but his boyfriend is :D :D

Doug 28-01-2006 00:31

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil
Ok Ok I am only teasing, I admit it Chav is not gay, but his boyfriend is :D :D

I take it that the gentleman in question is out on a bender tonight then? :p

I can't wait until he see this .... :D :D

Bazf 28-01-2006 02:06

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug
I take it that the gentleman in question is out on a bender tonight then? :p

I can't wait until he see this .... :D :D

Double entendre....Bender........Fah Na, Fah Na.....:D

vitty 28-01-2006 02:26

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug
Is a comment made on a web site three years ago, current news?

Not alone. But it can used to back up other information, like residents' requests at public meetings in the last year for a gate to stop sexual activity happening on he land.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug
Your article states categorically that; “SEX-MAD couples are visiting a quiet Huncoat spot for the sordid act of "dogging", it was revealed this week”

What proof is there that doggers are currently active in the area?

You can take this point to the nth degree. If 1,000 people say to us 'it rained on Saturday' and one person complains and says 'how do you know it rained, you didn't stand in it?' and you upheld the complaint, you'd never get anything written.

In this instance, the guy who lives next door to the patch of land and the councillor who is responsible for listening to residents queries about such matters both gave us quotes saying it happened. The website backed it up.

Whether it was put on three years ago or yesterday is irrelevent. It's on the web telling anyone who cares to look where to go.

Police may have had no reports...but say there have been five cars on my street with windows put through...if noone reports it does that mean there's no problem?

We're obliged to ask the police about legal matters.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug
Did you editor purposely seek to spice up a dull one column inch piece about HBC failure to place gate in an area to prevent Fly tipping?

Contrary to popular believe, our reason d'etre isn't 'having a pop at Hyndburn Borough Council' and if you'd've read my first post in this thread carefully, you'd've noticed responsibility came under LCC in any case.

It was a good story.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug
Did or did not the police ask you not to report on the matters of doggers, if so, what guidance did they give and for what reason.

No. We asked them for guidance. They gave it. The guidance was 'try to avoid direct quotations from the website'. The editor took on board the guidance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug
I have a large car park close to me, if I thought it was being used for the purpose of dogging I wouldn’t it across the front page of my local paper, mud stick’s. It stigmatises the area and may affect local property prices. .

You could use that argument for anything. If there's a murder on Bloggs Street, Accrington on Saturday night, should the Observer not report it incase it brings stigma or lowers house prices?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug
At the end of the day Vitty I am expressing my opinions on the matter and how it was reported..

I know you are, my friend. And, as always your opinions are gratefully received and respected.

But on this matter, people in our trade are very well education on media law, ethics, and industry rules and have many years of experience between us.

Contrary to what some may think, we're not novices out for a laugh.

garinda 28-01-2006 09:45

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Sorry Vitty this story contained no other evidence that dogging occurs at this place other than the quote from the web site.

'Not alone. But it can used to back up other information, like residents' requests at public meetings in the last year for a gate to stop sexual activity happening on he land.'[Quote Vitty]

Why was this not mentioned in the article? Why not quote from the minutes of the meeting? Why not get quotes from the 'resident' who said it?

I'm afraid that going against 'guidance' from the police the only evidence offered in your story was taken word for word from the web site, complete with titilating details. The fact that this all seems to be based around one three year old anonymous posting on a website is relevant, because it makes this old news and not worthy of front page headlines with accompanying salacious headline.

Like I said earlier, the LET did a similar story where this activity does take place near Darwen, and the problen was made much worse for local residents, because undesirables took it as an advertisment for depravity, and the problem was greatly increased.

Doug 28-01-2006 10:41

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Vitty, argument aside, I admire your stance and respect the fact that you stand by your story. Principle is an honourable quality. Respect.

chav1 28-01-2006 12:27

Re: Sex headlines.
 
at the risk of repeating myself..

in order to continue argueing with neil i would have to lower my intelligence to that of an idiot where he would clearly beat me on experience :p

i therefore have no option but to withdraw and bow down to his superior lack of intelligence :D

vitty 28-01-2006 13:26

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Thanks Doug. It's good to have some intelligent debate without it degrading into personal insults.

I shall miss it when I go :)

Neil 28-01-2006 13:47

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chav1
i therefore have no option but to withdraw and bow down to his superior intelligence :D

Does that mean I was right all along?

Uncle Mick 28-01-2006 15:01

Re: Sex headlines.
 
I remember a wonderful story; some years ago a young lady was seen swimming naked for a few sundays on the trot in the lodge where the fire station now stands. She was upsetting the fishermen as she was scaring the fish away. This story was printed ( I think ) in the Observer. The following Sunday, Hyndburn Road was choc a block with cars!!..... I could`nt ever find anywhere to park my bike!

garinda 28-01-2006 15:20

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vitty
It's good to have some intelligent debate without it degrading into personal insults.

I don't think it degraded into personal insults did it?

You answered my questions, unsatisfactorily in my book, but we will have to disagree on the merits of this story and it's headline.

I too wish you all the best.

chav1 28-01-2006 16:01

Re: Sex headlines.
 
its only an insult if the person its aimed at takes it as an insult

i havnt been botherd by antything said and i doubt neil has either but i cant speak for him :)

friendly banter is how i see everything on here although it does get close to the bone at times :D

Doug 28-01-2006 16:40

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by vitty
Thanks Doug. It's good to have some intelligent debate without it degrading into personal insults.

I shall miss it when I go :)

Vitty, your only going to Hull, just think how bad it could have been “Fleetwood” perhaps. Thanks for the comment it’s appreciated.

One other small point, I have it on good authority that they have the net in Hull therefore Accrington is only a push of a button away. I know it’s not the same as living over in Accy, but its close. You can visit every day and I’m sure you’d be more than welcome.

Madhatter 28-01-2006 17:28

Re: Sex headlines.
 
So in reality you don't know for sure that dogging has ever gone on, only that sexual activity has gone on, which happens on most school fields and waste ground in most towns in the country. You don't know for sure that this dogging story on the net is true, you said the residents talk of sexual activity, but not of people having sex while others watched, and the police have no reports. Strange cos If I wanted something done, and that gate up, I'd be straight on to the police and councillors describing exactly whats going on.

Madhatter 28-01-2006 17:37

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Madhatter
ask 'slut suzie' doug she's from blackpool and I'm sure she'd oblige.

She has some crackin jokes on her web site doug, and her blog was very interesting. A good source for anyone studying causes and effects of prostitution. People tend to forget that some people like sex to the point that they want it several times a day, and actually want to do itand enjoy it with strangers.
I'm not in to it myself, but I do find the subject interesting.

Neil 28-01-2006 18:22

Re: Sex headlines.
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by chav1
friendly banter is how i see everything on here although it does get close to the bone at times :D

Don't be soft you big girl or I won't buy you a pint tonight :D


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