Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Here we go again. The smoker is being targeted once more with moves afoot to ban smoking in the open air, like at bus stops, doorways etc. Crikey the smoking ban in enclosed spaces hasn’t even come into force in England yet.

Some *!!*!!* on the Jeremy Vine show this morning had the gall to suggest that a doorway was an enclosed space or even bus shelters that do not have four sides and a roof. What planet is that guy living on?

The loud mouthed, self opinionated and utterly selfish non smokers are pushing for an absolute and total smoking ban altogether and want to dictate what I do in my home, my garden (such as it is) or in my car. Then they jump in their noxious, fumes spraying vehicles and drive off in a sanctimonious huff leaving me having to breathe in the fumes.

Of course it is perfectly OK to stand at a bus stop and have disgusting and deadly diesel fumes pumped straight into your face and no one, but no one objects.

I have a fag in my mouth whilst I am typing this. Who is going to be the first to object?

I think that I had better stop before the forum police take me away.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Even worse - the powers that be have announced that they are not considering stopping smoking in private houses - yet.

Also, like many other daft ideas of this daft government, virtually unworkable. How far away from a bus stop do you need to stand if you want a fag? Can you get nicked for walking down the street with a fag in your hand because you are passing the doorways of offices? Or is it alright if you keep walking?

If they really want to stop people smoking, then ban tobacco. But they like the revenue that smokers bring in, don't they. If they made it illegal, the government would lose something like £12 million a day minimum.

Oh, and of course there is the lunatic thing that prisoners can smoke whilst banged up, despite the fact that prisons are workplaces for many people - can't infringe the poor little dears' human rights, can we?

It's all gone mad.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

I wonder what the penalties are going to be for all this? A hundred quid spot fine? An ASBO? A stiff jail sentance? And what would happen if you were caught smoking in a bus shelter while also present was Garinda, or a member of the ethnic community, or someone with crutches? Would the penalty then be doubled, as is now the case involving criminal actions against 'minorities'?

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

If it was the chauffeur's annual day off and I was to catch a bus, I'd never smoke at the bus stop, but find a place nearby where no one can complain.

Even in restaurants that allow smoking I find I don't enjoy a cigarette if there are people near by.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Smoking should be banned altogether.
As a country we have the largest rate of children & teenagers developing asthma due to the ignorant gases of Tony Blair's new plane, all your fuel guzzeling 4x4's which are not necessary, and of course not forgetting those nice little cancer sticks.
How ignorant do you have to be to smoke in public when there could be pregnant womens lungs being bombarded with your tar & crap from the inside of your 5 minute nicotine fix.
What could you possibly be gaining?
A sense of power or rebellion?
Why would you attack your own health, never mind the health of every passer by?!
Smoking is utterly senseless. Fact.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

the world is going nuts!! a simple solution would be to execute the cretins that dream these ideas up.:D

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

I believe that someone suggested that 4 yards away from a building would be OK to smoke.

I get this vision of one of the anti-smoking police wandering down the high street with a yardstick in his hand (like the sergeant majors of old when they were measuring a marching pace).

“Hello! Hello! Hello! Smoking are we sir/madam.”

Copper measures distance.

“That is 3 yards 2 feet, 11 and a half inches. You’re nicked.”

We the citizens of the UK need to wake up because the government is setting citizen against citizen with all these silly rules and whilst we argue amongst ourselves we don’t notice what the government is getting up to. Namely screwing us down further and further until we will have little or no freedoms left. We will just be workers (well you will I’m retired) creating the country’s wealth for the top nobs to cream off for themselves.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Its called a sense of satisfaction, chummy. The only thing that ruins it is the knowledge that not all of the tobacco taxes we pay are spent wisely; in fact, much is wasted, such as on meaningless courses in education (an example being media studies) and on those students who should have their head in their books, rather than be spending all day fooling around on the internet.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Some people shakermaker still don’t get it.

The infernal combustion vehicle has a greater detriment to EVERYBODY’S health than fags.

Quote:

How ignorant do you have to be to smoke in public when there could be pregnant womens lungs being bombarded with your tar & crap from the inside of your 5 minute nicotine fix.

Apply that to motorists and there are many more of them than there are smokers.

Quote:

How ignorant do you have to be to drive in public when there could be pregnant womens lungs being bombarded with your poisonous fumes of your 5 minute school run - as an example.

The self opinionated, sanctimonious driver twerps who castigate smokers are hypocrites of the first order.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Cancer, emphysema & looking like 20 years older than you are? Satisfying indeed.

See - it's obvious. Smoking makes you defiant, defensive, paranoid and above all - stupid.
Tell Rupert Murdoch that a career in media isn't worthwhile....

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Typical mark of the cornered and fundementally wrong.
Pointing the finger elsewhere...it's so childish.
"But he was throwing more paper airplanes, sir"

I for one do not see an argument. It's simple.
Don't smoke - your heart, lungs & bank account will thank you for it.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

I doubt that Rupert has an A level in media studies, though.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

On the one hand i'd rather not go in to a pub and have my lungs filled with smoke, not because I think it's killing me, but because I don't like the smell, and I don't smoke myself.
However, banning people from smoking outdoors is eroding peoples civil liberties. In an outdoor environment you are not subject to hours of constant smoke inhaliation, your subject to a moment of, a more moderate dose of it. As far as bus stops are concerned you can always move to where the wind isnt blowing it.
It's completly different indoor because the smoke lingers, but outside it dosn't.

Another thing is; where does this stop? Some of you mention car fumes, if smoking is banned then, why shouldn't car's because they produce an awfull lot of fumes, I don't have the details, but I think im on safe ground if I say that they're not awfully good for us. Now of course, not a proper suggestion, because banning cars is not realistic, its just making a point out of where do we stop.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

All that is mentioned is in force up here and its a pain and as for bus shelters wether it has 4 sides or not smoking aint allowed.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

The only group who are cornered shakermaker are the pro cars people. Not one single motorist has stood up and denied that their vehicles pollute the atmosphere. They can’t because they do and they like you have no coherent argument against it.

All they can come up with are supercilious remarks about cars etc being a necessary a part of life and in your case calling it childish to point out that vehicles do pollute more than fags.

Denying the obvious and trying to justify the denial with stupid comments is childish in the extreme.

So because it is not realistic to ban cars we all have to suffer their pollution. Ban cars, whether it is realistic or not – my heart and lungs will thank me for it.
Cancer, emphysema & looking like 20 years older than you are? Satisfying indeed.

So we are onto the cancer theme now. And car fumes don’t cause cancer??? You really are living on another planet.

And finally, it makes people look 20 years older does it? According to your theory my looks would make me 50. I’m 70 next April and that is me in my avatar. Not the caricature, nor the frog but the picture.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

You won't win the argument by trying to ban cars, if you want to ban everything that causes pollution and our bad health, then you'll end up banning everything in existance :p

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

I’m not trying to win an argument Cyfr because even the thickest of people will realise that banning cars is never likely to happen.

What I am trying to do is to get those people who use motorised vehicles to accept and acknowledge that vehicle exhaust fumes kill and maim far more people than tobacco ever did. But they won’t because if they do and they still pontificate about smokers and passive smoking they will also have to acknowledge that they are hypocrites of the first order and their anti smoking campaign is nothing more than foisting their views on other people.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Found this website and this report

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medi...p?newsid=12481

The air pollution emitted by cigarettes is 10 times greater than diesel car exhaust, suggests a controlled experiment, reported in Tobacco Control.

Environmental tobacco smoke produces fine particulate matter, which is the most dangerous element of air pollution for health. Levels indoors can far exceed those outdoors, because new engine models and lead free fuels have cut the levels of particulate matter emissions from car exhausts, say the authors.

The controlled experiment was carried out in a private garage in a small mountain town in northern Italy. The town enjoys very low levels of particulate matter air pollution

A turbo diesel 2 litre engine was started and left idling for 30 minutes in the garage, with the doors closed, after which the doors were left open for four hours. The car was fuelled with low sulphur fuel.

Three filter cigarettes were then lit up sequentially, and left smouldering for a further 30 minutes. The nicotine and tar content of each cigarette was 1 mg and 11.2 mg, respectively.

A portable analyser took readings every two minutes during the experiments.

Combined particulate levels in the first hour after the engine had been started measured 88 ug/m3. Those recorded in the first hour after the cigarettes had been lit measured 830 ug/m3: 10 times greater.

The diesel engine exhaust doubled the particulate matter levels found outdoors at its peak; the environmental tobacco smoke particulate matter reached levels 15 times those measured outdoors.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Ok fair point, but, what over a 24 hour period pollutes more smokers or vehicles?

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Oh deary me the anti smoking interferring know it alls bit again yeh i heard whilst discussing this with a mate whilst smoking outside in the wind & rain now even that pleasure is being taken away.

As Pendy says its unworkable & quite cant see how enforceable it is, like dont we have enough real criminals cramming the prison system - perverts & violent sods being let out early or given rubbish sentences - yet be a smoker its now on par to that!!! How will it be policed? Think about it what main part of society smoke in sociology terms - usually mainly poor, people work in stressful jobs etc etc no specific but mention poorer less well off because in case of on the spot fines say £50 or £100 - those would be the most effected paying those fines cos they wont be able to - so then what prison term for a fag??? then does this stretch to prisoners whom majority smoke or deal with fags as form of currency in there, so riots in jails. They do bog all with harder drugs & booze which cost the NHS per week. It will drive the fag market underground before long being a smoker will be worse than a herion addict.

As Jambutty rightfully says you cant just label smoking as cause of cancer!! Ive known smokers to have lived a long fruitful life & non smokers even passively be cut short & have cancer - sorry but it simply cant be blamed on smoking alone which its implying. They simply do not know what single handley causes it 100% but seems process of ellimation but bet cancer would still exist!! Even the bloody sunshine can cause cancer [skin] so whats next ban the bloody sun, so whats causing the ozone layer to thin ermmmmm not smoking but pollution where from factories, cars, areosols, nuclear war you name it & its not just coming from our Country but we'd be effected even still!!

This country is going way too far ooooh get the taxes from the tobacco & get the fines from them again for smoking what they have been taxed on:( Sooo if every smoker gave up who would be next for the tax & fine cull to keep the country going????

....Internet users which you all here are the EU want to put taxation on every email & SMS!!! Next it will be every breath you take!!! Flipping ludicrous!!!

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Although the toxicity of the pollutant must be taken into account, so must the volume.

You don’t need a degree to figure out that 20 cigarettes produce far less volume than one vehicle ticking over for one hour. Lets be really generous and suggest that one fag will produce 10 litres of smoke, that is 200 litres for a packet of 20. Even if one fag were smoked after another it would still take at least 100 minutes to smoke the lot. Lets be generous again and say one hour. In reality it would be one day.

Let’s keep this simple and take a 1 litre car as an example. By definition a 1 litre car will expel 1 litre of gasses for each engine revolution. On tickover the engine revs will be around 800 rpm. That is 800 x 1 litre of gasses every minute. During an hour that will be 48,000 litres of noxious fumes. But cars don’t sit around ticking over, they bomb around at, at the very least some 4,000 rpm or more and there are millions on the move at any one time. Granted there are millions of smokers still but on average each one will only smoke 20 fags in a day.

So smoking will produce 200 litres of smoke in one hour whereas a car at the absolute minimum usage will produce 48,000 litres of exhaust fumes in the same hour. It’s not rocket science.

Someone please remind me again which is the greater polluter?

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Jambutty; you're making me out to be a hypocrite without reason!
I do not drive - & yes I am for everybody using public transport but I realise it is not feesable for everyone to go and dump their car down at the scrap yard. I do get irate about idiots driving 4x4's without a care in the world about the crap they are guzzling out into the air.
I am merely trying to get the smokers to own up to the fact that smoking is an unnecessary irritant which emits that deadly stench & more importantly is as dangerous to non-smokers as it is to the ones who have paid £4/£5 for a pack of 20.
You cannot compare smoking to car use - car use in this day and age is necessary to inner city commuters especially around the big cities of Manchester & Liverpool.
Smoking is the biggest cause of unnecessary death every year - it's a fact.
How would you feel if a bed on the NHS was unavailable to a non-smoker when an idiot with a disease directly caused by smoking was taking up the space? Well it happens - everyday - unnecessarily.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

I really don't think you can involve that in your otherwise quite sensible argument, if we were to do that with everything thats optional, we could say we won't treat fat people because it's their fault they eat, we won't treat people who have overworked themselves, it's their own fault, we won't treat people who get drunk, we won't treat people who have aids because they shouldn't be injecting themselves or sleeping around..

Not everythings so black and white.

Of course, I don't agree with your argument as a whole, i believe that people should not be controled by the government like that, smoking outdoors should be fine.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Where do you draw the line if you go down that track?

Refuse treatment to women who have been made infertile through contracting a sexually tramsmitted disease when they could have used barrier protection?

Refuse to help drivers involved in car crashes who were going over the speed limit?

Not operating on people who develop skin cancers if they didn't always wear protection from the sun, including hats?

As people have said earlier the cost in financial terms to the NHS is more than made up for in taxes raised from cigarettes.

Like Pendy said if they really cared more about the health of the nation rather than money, they would ban tobacco altogether.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

How come we never heard about asthma in kids caused by smoke pollution during the 40s and 50s when 95% of the homes in the north were heated by open coalfires and lit by gas mantles .

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Oh yes it was much better in the good old days when people just died.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

I'm a fairly liberal type of guy, so naturally am in favour of allowing each to his own. But I do think that the smokers of this thread are being irrational. number 1. "Let's ban cars then too! Cars make smoke. Drivers are worse!" Nice point I'm sure and not one that I'm going to pretend doesn't exist. But seriously... cars serve a purpose. Smoking doesn't really. As for the point about Smoking not causing cancer... what? I just don't get it. How you can seriously smoke one of those things and believe that it's not doing you any physical harm is beyond me. "But being fat is worse!"

I also don't understand the people who can't comprehend how smoking could be made illegal. "But rapists are worse!" Of course they are. But is doing dope worse than smoking tobacco? Both can cause cancer when smoked. Both cause psychological changes. Why not classify tobacco as a class C drug?

To say that it impinges on your civil liberty is a fair point but I don't hear you complaining about having to wear a seatbelt, about having to clean up after your dog, about it being illegal to inject heroin into your veins. There are certain liberties which must be removed in order to protect the rest of humanity. This is one of them. I'm personally not against you smoking as you walk down the street, but I have to say that sometimes, particularly on still days, smokers at bus-stops can really annoy me. Why should I have my right to clean air impinged upon by an inconsiderate arrogant and completely self-centred smoker.

I'm not saying that all smokers and like that, far from it! There are quite a few people who will stand away from the crowd in order to enjoy a smoke. And I'm very thankful to them as well. Policemen smoke too. I'm sure that if smoking does become illegal in public places that they won't mind if you're having a smoke at a deserted bus stop. They aren't all unreasonable bafoons.w

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Tobacco kills more people than AIDS, legal and illegal drugs, road accidents, murder and suicide combined. Currently around 5 million people worldwide die each year from tobacco-related causes. In comparison HIV/AIDS is responsible for 3 million deaths per year.

By 2030, tobacco is expected to be the single biggest cause of death worldwide, with an estimated 10 million people world wide dying of tobacco related causes. Around 3 million of these will occur in the developed world and 7 million in developing countries.

Since the 1950s, more than 70,000 scientific articles have shown that prolonged smoking causes premature death and disability worldwide. Overall, one in two smokers will die prematurely, with one quarter dying in middle age, losing 20-25 years of life.

Breathing in other people’s tobacco smoke (secondhand, passive or involuntary smoking) is known to cause a range of disorders from minor eye and throat irritation through to heart disease and lung cancer.

Of course these are just words they don't effect every day people, One thing ever smoker should do is watch someone die from cancer and see if the reaction is ban cars. For those who smoke and have kids just take a second and see what effect it is having on them, passive smoking in the home and car are where the kids suffer most.
Children are particularly vulnerable to the effects of secondhand smoke and exposure increases the risk of cot death, glue ear, asthma and other respiratory disorders.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Anyone who uses a vehicle or buys goods from shops that were supplied by a vehicle is a hypocrite if they complain about smokers’ pollution shakermaker. So my accusation is not without reason. In fact it is rock solid valid.

If you get so uptight about 4x4’s then you should be really angry with all other vehicles. The modern 4x4, and most are, do not pollute as much as most other vehicles. What about that huge lorry that brings your food to the supermarkets or cash and carry’s? Did your guitar walk to the shop where I presume you bought it or someone bought it for you? Of course you could have nicked it but even then the instrument would have to be transported from where it was made to you. One way or another we all contribute to pollution but the smoker is a soft target.

People who are addicted to smoking find it a necessity and it is not your place to tell a smoker that it isn’t necessary that s/he should smoke. Sorry I forgot your holier than thou attitude takes precedence.

You are merely attacking the smoker and trying to justify your use, in one way or another, of vehicles. And then you have the audacity to claim that cars are necessary so it’s OK to pollute.

People glibly quote figures of alleged smoking related deaths and I would agree if those people didn’t breathe the air around them. But they do, so any death that is claimed to have been caused by tobacco smoke can only be a probable cause. Just because a guy is dying from lung cancer and smoked 20 a day it doesn’t automatically follow that it was the tobacco. What if he was a mechanic in a bus depot or a long distance lorry driver who spent many hours each day amongst traffic? How can anyone say with any degree of certainty that it was tobacco that caused the cancer or for that matter the vehicle fumes that he breathed in day in day out all his working life. They can’t!

I can and do compare car use with smoking because both pollute the air that we all breathe and one vehicle will create umpteen times more pollution in one day than one person smoking 20 fags in one day. Most of the anti-smoking brigade are just jumping on a bandwagon.

The incidence of asthma in the young has been increasing year by year but at the same time smoking has been decreasing and the number of vehicles on our roads has nearly doubled. Now there’s a probable cause.

Beds are always available in the NHS to those who need them. The hospitals do not differentiate as to the reason why someone needs admission. The only criterion is whether they are ill enough to need a bed. You are spouting statistics that exist only in your imagination.

Asthma and other lung diseases were rife in the days of SMOG steeljack. Hundreds of thousands died from SMOG. And what contributed to the SMOG as well as coal fires? Why the early and highly inefficient cars, buses and factories. SMOG was one of the reasons why domestic coal fires were phased out after going through the smokeless fuel phase.

I lived through the 40’s and 50’s and I can tell you that a decent fire did not push smoke into the house. It all went up the chimney. Gas mantles burned the gas quite efficiently.

So you are another one DeShark – cars serve a purpose so it’s OK to pollute the atmosphere. A hypocritical statement if ever I heard one. But smoking does serve a purpose. It creates billions of pounds in taxes and on a personal note I enjoy a smoke.

No one ever stated that smoking is not harmful to the smoker. But then that’s what the anti-smoking brigade do – bring in totally irrelevant issues.

When the compulsory wearing of a seat belt was introduced there was a huge uproar but what has that got to do with the debate in question? Oh! Yes! Of course! Muddying the waters!
“Why should I have my right to clean air impinged upon by an inconsiderate arrogant and completely self-centred smoker.” I would agree with you except for one point. Just exactly where is this clean air that everyone is pontificating about? It’s polluted with vehicle exhaust fumes and not forgetting industrial atmospheric pollution.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

I’ve watched someone die from cancer Bazf and he came from a non smoking household but he did drive a lorry for a living. Now tell me again how tobacco caused his death.

Er! Which part of the lung does glue ear affect?

I have two grandchildren and one great grandchild who all suffer from asthma. None of their parents smoke or ever have done. But they did live on a very busy main road that reeks from exhaust fumes 24 hours a day.

Explain to me how it was tobacco that caused their asthma.

You are all trying to make tobacco a scapegoat when you know full well that the additional culprit is vehicle exhaust fumes but you won’t admit it. By doing so you would have to shoulder some of the responsibility and that would never do. Would it???

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Oddly enough I find myself actually agreeing with Shakermaker on something! Smoking is an evil addiction that costs an absolute fortune ;you have nothing to show for your expenditure except a bl**dy awful cough,dying lungs and a large hole in your pocket! My father has smoked for over 40 years and has tried and failed to give up many times;yet his own dad died of lung cancer when my dad was 14.
He knows how all 3 of his non smoking kids feel about his smoking and has had somewhat restricted access to his grandchildren because of his smoking.
It's a disgusting habit;I am glad it is banned in the workplace,bars and restaurants soon to follow suite.I agree with the Big G that the only way to stop this evil would be a tobacco ban but that would be nigh on impossible to enforce.
Smokers should try watching the Gunther Van Hagens autopsy tv series and see for real what they are doing to themselves and those around them!:eek:

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

I agree. Exhaust fumes DO cause a heck of a lot of pollution. I can't stand cars. Yes, I'll use one, but I'd much prefer to ride a motorbike/scooter. And I'm no hypocrite to say that cars are more acceptable. I might enjoy building bonfires of petrol in my back yard cause the smoke smells nice to me, but there's no reason for it whatsoever. I'd have paid huge amounts of tax on said petrol but money is not a justification for the harm I would be doing. Conversely, I could load that petrol into a motorbike and make a good 200 miles to the gallon. Which is the least responsible? A wreckless waste of money, a massive detriment to the state of the environment and greatly annoying my neighbour or using it for an important cause? You won't be able to ban cars. You could, like I do, kick up a fuss in order to get people to think about what sort of car to buy. I'm not trying to say that you shouldn't smoke. Frankly, I wouldn't like to order you to do or not do anything. But when it begins to have an impact on me, I feel entitled, if not obliged to defend my position.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

When statistics are being bandied around I am always reminded of one fact. Merseyside and its nearby area has, apparently, the highest rate of lung cancer in Britain. Though the anti-tobacco lobby would, no doubt, argue that this must mean the area has the biggest concentration of smokers, that hypothesis is ridiculous. What the area does have is a large concentration of chemical industries, particularly in the Widnes/Runcorn area, and petro-chemical and neuclear plants on the Wirral.

While I, as an ex-smoker, totally agree with non-smoking enclosed environments I find the premise of outdoor tobacco smoke being responsible for air pollution, frankly, ludicrous. Take a drive through Widnes, on a still day, with your car window open, drive down to the dock area in Runcorn or have a ride out to Stanlow refinery. Take a deep lungful of the air the people are breathing daily and, when you stop coughing, just think a little harder.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Gosh !! so much hate :eek:

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

At least you appear to accept your part in the pollution of our air DeShark but then you go and try to mitigate it be preferring a motorbike.

What have motorbikes/scooters got to do with it? They are still internal combustion engine driven that pollutes the atmosphere. It doesn’t matter whether you drive a huge gas-guzzling leviathan or a 50 cc Moped you still pollute the air that others, and yourself, breathe. But that’s OK because you also breathe in the gungy air. Talking that argument as a yardstick then it is also OK if I smoke in public because I also breathe in my own smoke.

I wasn’t going to bring the bonfire into the debate but seeing as you have done so, why do I have to suffer the smoke and fumes because a neighbour enjoys his barbeque or enjoys a bonfire in his garden yet he objects to me smoking in his vicinity? I enjoy my fag so if I’m outside anyone nearby will just have to lump it.

A few days either side of Bonfire Night the air is thick with choking, acrid smoke round here. Smoke from that old settee with its foam upholstery. The foam that gives off poisonous fumes that kill before the fire does in a house fire. That’s OK because people are enjoying themselves. The same people who pontificate about passive smoking.

It all boils down to “do as I say not as I do” and for a more classic example of hypocrisy it will be difficult to find.

If you feel that you entitled to defend your position when something impacts on you then why shouldn’t I do the same. Surely you don’t have special human rights do you?

No hate katex, just exasperation at the way society as a whole has degenerated into a me, me, me, me, me society. We used to tolerate each other’s foibles. Not any more! The knives come out at the drop of a hat.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Jambutty, of course everyone knows that cigarette smoke is not the singular cause for the hole in the o-zone layer, that it is melting all the polar ice-caps & that your pack of Marlboro red is going to raise the temperature of the earth :)
What baffles me is the blasé attitude to the relation between smoking and the personal health of a smoker?
We've all seen the adverts with the man gasping for air on a life support machine & the one with the err..failure to rise to the occasion; so as a genuine question; why put yourself through the long-term damage for a quick nicotine fix?

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

The same accusation could be levelled at you for your views on non-smokers or drivers of cars.

I say this as a smoker, and someone who admits it can be a very anti-social habit sometimes.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

This is an argument which will never be resolved. Back in the sixties the Armed Forces provided tobacco allowances for all personnel as I guess Jambutty knows. It was even approved of to have a quick ciggie whilst in your hospital bed in those days. It wasn't thought to be harmful then.

I have my own rules. I don't smoke where there are children, especially in enclosed spaces, even though their parents might be. Nor where people are eating. In my own home I do what I like.

As for having a cigarette at a bus stop, well, why not, you can't have one on the bus and you probably can't have one when you get to where you are going.

Twenty years ago, or maybe not even that long, it was possible to make a choice in England but now bullies rule.

Enjoy your ciggie Jambutty, you have the right x

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

probably because its an ADDICTION something which seems to be beyond you.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

you look 90 on that pic:D

I tend to agree with cypher on this one, but you should want to give up, its a dirty filthy smelly habbit. would you pour tar in a glass and drink it? would you rub ashes on your clothes. But thats what your doing, and not only to yourselves, to your kids.

I think all tax on ciggarettes should be dropped, they should ban it in public places, enclosed places not open bus stops ,although smoking rooms should be allowed, esp in pubs, and when you get smoking related illness's you should be refused treatment. If you wanna kill yourselves go ahead and do it, but not round us, and not with any loss off us. The tax is as good as blood money in opinion.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Thats not from stanlow, thats from that smelly poisonous toxic incinerator, the smell makes me sick. I've rarelly smelt anything in widnes, and only if I'm by the chemical plant in runcorn.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

I think jambutty might be trying to say that all that's due to the car fumes and not the smoke:rolleyes:

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

smoking is a choice if a person wants to smoke they can but I as a smoker do agree that it should be banned completely how can the goverment justify selling these health hazzards to people ? It puzzles me how they can get away with it, I say make them illegal like drugs that way ppl who want to smoke badly enough can get imports from the black market like drugs then they will only be smoking in their own home and not polluting everyone else with the fumes

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

It is only a matter of time before the NHS refuses treatment to smokers. If smoking is banned in so many places, obviously people will smoke fewer cigarettes. If people smoke fewer cigarettes, the tax take goes down. If the tax take goes down, how do we fund the NHS? It's already running over budget. So, how do we cut down? Simple, don't treat smokers.

As for watching someone die of cancer, I personally know a thoracic surgeon who smokes. Irrational? Possibly, but it is his choice. My nephew died at 46 of a form of lung cancer which is extremely virulent and is not caused by smoking (he never smoked in his life).

There have been quite a number of studies of passive smoking. Funnily enough, only the one that said it was dangerous is ever quoted. I know media studies students are not much into research, but perhaps an hour or two in the library might open a mind or two.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

One other thing - Shakermaker does seem rather holier than thou on this, but he/she has the advantage of knowing that smoking is deleterious to health. If you are over 45, it is very probable that at the time you started smoking, no-one said it was bad for you. In the US doctors endorsed particular brands of cigarette (Camel being one) and, as WestEnder says, patients were allowed to smoke in their hospital beds. And yes, it is an addiction. Think yourself lucky that you were warned.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

If only simple as that then after the smokers are not in existance then what NHS will still have problems!!! So whats next for NHS cull? overweight people, alcholics, drug addiction, then who after people with depression/mental health as in attempted suiciders????? Binge drinkers/party the weekenders are the worst for Emergency services costings but nope nobody says boo cos thats seemingly acceptable.

Sorry start with one & further down the line come the others, so least be interesting for those against smoking but have a little addiction of their own that could in future down the line be banned - see who else would moan then. The major point above all the other crap here that the bad guys smokers have, is that its discrimination because 1 addiction is sorely more attacked than any other!!! Also if that has to be banned so has other addictions like the above i mention for health reasons otherwise its hypocritical.

As for being Governments fault - not wholely the choice as with owt is with the individual but the gov certainly can be called HYPROCRITICAL, in one breath its wrong bad etc BUT in another is great cos we get money from it!!

How would most of you feel if mobile phones were banned or restricted - most of you have one, so its easy to condemn one act because you dont do it but if you do you cant argue the point - no win situ as with thread.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Once again shakermaker you bring into the debate a point that has absolutely no relevance. If you want to discuss the depletion of the o-zone layer that’s fine by me but don’t try and hijack this thread for the purpose. But then that is what people do when they have no further points to make to enhance their argument. They try to drag the thread off topic.

Having a view on someone’s opinion isn’t intolerance garinda.

Indeed junetta, when I joined the navy in 1954 at the age of 16 years and 10 months I was able to buy 300 cigarettes each month for SEVEN SHILLINGS. They were specially made for the navy that we nicknamed ‘Blue Liners’ because each fag had a blue line along its length. In the late fifties I was hospitalised with double pneumonia and during the four weeks stay in hospital I could still buy my Blue Liners and smoke them whilst in bed. I was encouraged to smoke because it helped me cough up the muck in my lungs. The only restriction was no smoking during doctor’s rounds. But times and attitudes change.

Many thanks for your observation on my age Madhatter. I take it that it was made with your tongue firmly in your cheek.

Quote:

would you pour tar in a glass and drink it?

You need to brush up on your human anatomy. Since when did drinking something send it to the lungs?

Quote:

when you get smoking related illness's you should be refused treatment.

Now there’s a charitable attitude. I suppose that you would also agree to refusing treatment for drink related injuries or sports related injuries and so on. No? That wouldn’t have anything to do with you liking a pint of something, would it? You really do highlight my accusation that today’s society has got extremely selfish and intolerant of other people’s views and life style.

My point Madhatter is that blaming just smoking for all the ills is not only unfair but grossly inaccurate. I accept that smoking does pollute the atmosphere to a small degree in the open air but the non-smoking, anti-smoking drivers point blank refuse to accept that their vehicular activity causes far greater pollution. They always come back with the argument that because cars etc are necessary it is OK to pollute the air that I breathe. It’s the hypocritical attitude of these people that saddens me.

If your are advocating making tobacco an illegal substance who_eat_all_the_pies then you would also have to say the same about alcohol. Alcohol does far more harm to the imbiber and those around him/her than tobacco. Try any town centre on any weekend night not forgetting the abuse the family gets when the drunk gets home.

For the NHS to refuse treatment to smokers would drive a coach and horses right through the Hippocratic oath and would make it a hypocritical oath pendy.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Yeh Jambutty i agree with you about alcohol that to me is worse than being trapped in a room with 100 smokers LOL!!

Its the worst for costing emergency sevices [police & ambulance] per week all for a good time - the worse is living with someone alcohol dependant specially when they get violent of it & wrecks the family..... i lived with one so i do know!

Look at George Best what ended it for him - booze or fags???

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

So, do cigarettes cause people to beat, gouge, kick, rape, maim and kill their fellow human beings?

Have cigarettes caused many of our city and town centres to become violent no-go areas for peaceable folk on weekend nights?

Have cigarettes led to the word "British" being equated with the word "hooligan" in certain parts of continental Europe?

Yet, unbelievably, this government have freed up restrictions on drinkers in the futile hope of creating a cafe-style culture, whilst proposing yet more restrictions on smokers.

...and, by the way, I'm a non-smoking boozer!

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Excellent point & logical perspective in the scheme of things Wynonie

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

I aint a smoker and im glad ill be able to go out and not comeback stinking of smoke..

But i do feel sorry for the smokers. Taking liberties away from people isnt fair, whats next ?

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

The age, of course it was, don't take it serious.

Thats my point, you wouldn't, yet you have been putting it in to your lungs.

yes but drop the tax on them first. My point being that if the government is banning something, it shouldn't be condoning it with collecting tax and treating people.

Drink is a dead argument, because it's legal, as is ciggarettes, and when used in moderation is completely safe, it's only when it's abused that it does damage, the same with sport. Drugs are illegal, some say that they too can be safe in moderation, but thats not true, many a people have died taking them for the first time. Weed is the same as cigarettes, it stinks and it ages you and kills brain cells. People who smoke weed Continuously look thin, pale and gaunt, far older than they are. They look ill.

Me, I hardly ever drink. and can't remember the last time I had a pint, although in the right situation I do enjoy one. I certainly wouldn't miss it if it was banned, same with sport, I could care less if all sports of every description were banned, as for the car, I'd find another job, and i'd go back to public transport, which would then be environmentally friendly which I used for many years when getting together with the ex and building our flat up. OR i'd get a bike. I saw three people on one bike yesterday, and it was pulling a trailler with a young person in. I thought, how good is that.
Sometimes, I think I'd like to be on that island on lost. That would suit me fine.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Sounds like it may have been the circus coming to Atherstone.

Were they wearing big shoes and sporting red noses?:D

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

lol no it was a normal family, and it was in loughborough not here, unfortunately.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

all these none smokers objecting to smoking in pubs is a Fing joke]]

if you were that against smoking in pubs and found teh smell so disgusting you wouldnt go into the pubs in the first place but the pleasure of rotting your liver with alchol makes it ok to stand in a smoke filled pub

we had a non smoking pub in accrington for a while and was it busy , was it f**k busy all the non smokers were stood drinking in teh pubs that allowed smoking because those pubs are considered the beter pubs to be seen in

you want to breath fresh air go get some oxygen tanks and a ventelator off the NHS , as a smoker i dont mind my taxes from my ciggrettes paying for it so that your constant bitching and moaning dosnt hurt my ears no more

i dont smoke when others eat

i dont smoke in other peoples homes if they say not too

but i will be damned if i will not smoke in a pub just because a handfull of hypocryts decide they can no longer after many years of doing so put up with smoking in pubs

buy your own bloody pubs and if you serioulsy think people smoking in the street can give you cancer then you better buy a bloody bubble and stay in that because theris a lot more harmfull things in our atmosphere to worry about that a slight whiff of cigrette smoke

ps:

after you manage to stop smoking outdoors what are you going to try banning next

farting because it offends your nasel passages and is erroding teh ozone layer

grow up will ya :rolleyes:

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

I do think pubs should have better ventilation though chav, I know of smokers complaining in some pubs the air was so thick with smoke. Infact I truelly believe that if all pubs had very good ventilation, all this banning smoking in pubs stuff wouldn't have come about.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

PMSL!! another well said comment Chav though after that i bet you needed a fag eh:D This thread could be increasing smoking by 30% to avoid a pm from mods lmao

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

and you could therefore have half a pub smoking and half no and it would actually work. Seperate rooms don't because everybody ends up in the smokers side, because while we can put up with smokers, smokers can't put up with going without for a few hours or waiting till they're outside.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

I agree that banning smoking outdoors is totally unworkable. The only way to do it would be to make tobacco illegal and that would mean that the government would lose the billions in taxes which come from tobacco......Therefore hell will freeze over before they do that.

If they did make tobacco illegal then they would have to recoup their tax losses from somewhere.......alcohol and petrol look likely candidates here.

The only thing about quoting death statistics is that cause of death is often uncertain and confounded by other variables. Many people who die (unless killed outright in a quick and painful accident) have several things wrong with them all of which cause a deterioration in the body functions. Somebody may have a smoking related illness but they may also be grossly obese, if they have a sudden heart attack and die......was it caused by the smoking or the obesity???? Do you see what I mean?

The AIDS statistics quoted earlier in the thread said that 3 million died of AIDS worldwide last year.....not a statistic to be proud of but it failed to mention that there are 40 million living with AIDS worldwide and that there were roughly 4-5 million new infections diagnosed last year... By the way, these are just the cases which have been diagnosed, there are potentially many more. The reason why less people are now dying is because treatments are so good and freely available in the western world. BTW, most people don't catch HIV from drugs and promiscuity as mentioned by somebody earlier. Heterosexual women are now accounting for most new diagnoses because women are anatomically more likely to catch it. Most of these women are not promiscuous and have actually caught it from a husband. Drug addicts account for only a tiny percentage of HIV diagnoses...... I have references for all of this info if anyone wants to see them...:D

The debate about not treating smokers on the NHS will rage on. I think that most medical and nursing staff who are bound by the ethical principles of beneficience, non-maleficience, autonomy and justice could not bring themselves to refuse to treat somebody just because they smoke/smoked.

Like other minority groups, smokers will have to fight for their rights. Ethnic minorities, women, elderly, disabled, homosexual people have all stood up and demanded their rights... Is it against the human rights act to be marginalised because you smoke????? I think it probably is in this current climate.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

What is must be like to be holier than thou!!!

Actually hatter smokers do most of the waiting & going out for their smoke in fact while non smokers are cushty, likes of workplace, public transport, anywhere where smoking is not permitted - they even have to smoke in all weathers being outcasts as it is, but ooo table turns in a pub then its bad, again unfair as we do respect non smokers more than they respect us.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Well point out for fair balance & realism into thread Lettie:)

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

yes but how many of those are self inflicted? only one and thats smoking, you have no rights because it is self inflicted, it your choice if you smoke or not, your choice if you break the habbit. To compare that to someone in a wheel chair fighting for their rights is wrong.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Your comparission is invalid hatter, alcholics get treated or those in binge drinking sessions do, drug addicts that do overdose get treated ???............so isnt that also self inflicted???? So why the sole attack on smokers for then?

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

and so you should. I'm not doing anything but breathing, your the ones doing something, getting the pleasure from it. So why should I ever have to put up with an aspect of it that I don't want to.
when it comes to pubs even with non smoking areas we give in and put up with your smoke so that you can smoke, because you can't go without for an hour. If that wasn't true, why is it that people always end up in the smoking section and not the non smoking section. Why don't you respect our wishes and say it's ok we'll go in the no smoking section, we can wait for a fag.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

WELL dont go into the smoking section then if it bothers you that much you have the choice in fact more than us & besides you aint breathing in my smoke cos im in my own place not in yours!!

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

it's not flawed because they aren't on letties list.

plus alcholism is an abuse of a legal product
drugs are an illegal product
cigarettes are a legal product that with normal use can cause cancer etc and it now says so on the packet, therefore if you carry on, why should you expect treatment for a self inflicted illness. if you gave up now, it would be different but your not going to , infact your arguing reasons why you shouldn't.
Not treating you would be hipocritical if taxes were still collected of course, in fact the very fact that they are still available is, if they do in fact cause cancer.
As for the drugs, let em all die for all I care. most of em are chavs anyway.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

What was all that load of tosh!!! Notice you aint saying that people who like a good p*ss up should be refused & banned, so you must like a bevvy then.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Do you ever read what you have written before posting it Madhatter?

Public transport – environment friendly? How do you work that out? Most busses are powered by a Diesel engine that produces exhaust fumes.

Quote:

cigarettes are a legal product that with normal use can cause cancer etc and it now says so on the packet,

Then in the same paragraph you go on to state:

Quote:

if they do in fact cause cancer.

Make up your mind!

Drink is a very much alive argument if not quite for this thread. There are hundreds of thousands of people in this country alone with even more dead and buried who rue the day that alcohol was discovered.

What a pity that some people do not have the courage to put their name to comments (Shut up moaning on again.) made in the Karma thing on this thread. Is the culprit now man or woman enough to put their name to the comment? I won’t be holding my breath.

As soon as the match finishes I'm off for a Kentucky.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Actually Madhatter, you could not be more wrong....... You may remember a scientific breakthrough which hit the news 2 or 3 years ago. Addictions are genetically inherited conditions..

Scientists identified a gene which explains why some people develop addictions, whether that be to tobacco, alcohol, drugs, sex, gambling, shopping, caffeine or chocolate, the gene is part of an addictive personality and is inherited from parents.... It is therefore an illness in itself and cannot be helped..

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

alcholics get classed as disabled , probably coz their too drunk to walk

they also get a very lot more money than say somone witha genuine disability in a wheelchair

the govenments answer to helping an alcholic is to give them more money to buy more alchol

how about giving them sod all money so that they cant afford to drink and if they steal to feed their habbit lock them up where there is no alchol

same could go for drug addicts but i would rather they were given one huge overdose as their farewell ride to the stars

drug addicts dont pay tax on their drugs and in nearly all cases dont contribute to national insurance or tax because they are too high to work so they shouldnt be treated

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

I've recently changed to smoking menthol cigarettes.

It perfumes the environment around me with the smells of an Alpine meadow and also stops Chav from nicking them.

Ok, I'm kidding myself they still stink but at least the Chavster still won't have one when offered.:)

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

PMSL!!!! one way to ensure you keep your stash chav free:D

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Why don't you just chew 'em instead?

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

I have made my my up, I said CAN cause cancer and if they do in fact cause cancer. we all know they can, but if they do depends on the person and circumstances.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Hear Hear. I quite agree with you. And I am an ex smoker! This earth, such as it is, belongs to us all, we are not here very long. We should enjoy it in whatever way we choose, and not be dictated to by anyone. :engsmil:

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

I couldn't care less if I never had another alcoholic drink in my life.


how can an adiction be an illness? it doesn't need a cure, it needs determination. Are you saying that if a smack head gives birth to a baby with an addiction it's classed as an illness.
That I agree with.

I love the smell of the cherry or caramel pipe tobaco, why can't you all smoke stuff like that, would maybe even allow it in the flat then, it would save on air freshener.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

So if I choose to go to a pub and enjoy a pint in clean air, I should be able to do so, that is the way I choose to enjoy it, and shouldn't be dictated to by smokers insisting on filling the pub with smoke.

Back to the air conditioning thing. It's the only way that two sets of people who want to do opposite things can both enjoy doing them in the same environment

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Hey Hey! don't just blame Tony Blair and his government. It was the Tories a long time ago that first started this. Smoking isn't as utterly senseless as drinking. Smokers don't go off their heads and kill people fighting and the like. and stagger and fall down senseless. Do they???:engsmil:

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Addiction is classified as a mental illness and there are many treatments available for addiction depending on one's poison..:D

If a smack head gives birth to a baby, chances are that the baby will be admitted to NICU and have to go through withdrawal. This is treated with various medications and can take weeks, sometimes months.... These babies shake, sweat, sneeze a lot and have a very high pitched scream (if you heard one you wouldn't forget it). They are irritable to handle, don't feed well or sleep well for that matter.............Now you tell me, is that baby ill???

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

I agree with you Madhatter. You should be able to go into a pub and not have to breathe in second hand smoke. What you cannot do is go into a pub that allows smoking and demand that everyone stops doing so just because you object.

Please explain where is this pub with clean air. Half way up Mount Everest perhaps or maybe at the north and south pole?

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

no it's avictim of abuse by a parent who should be stopped from having any more. But instead the parent gets treated like they themselves are ill, when it's an addiction that they got in to, they chose to take the ****e, they knew the consequenses, and when they knew they were pregnant, they could have got help. They deserve what they get and certainly don't desserve to be able to look after lids.
I know someone very well that does take drugs, They also had their kids took off them for a while and she's been in the sex industry to pay for her drugs. She'll never be off it, because she's stuck in a place where she can't get away from the kids dad who is the one who persuades her to take the stuff again every time she starts to ween herself off it. Another down side to city life, the drug culture. It's far worse than a town. in a few months she'll no doubt be pregnant yet again bythe smackhead, and I'll have to pay for it with my taxes, she's already got four I'm helping to pay for.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

lol no you kill yourselves, and others. why do you smoke?
what is the sense in smoking? the sense in drinking is that it's a drink, it tastes nice, and in moderation it makes people happy and lifts peoples spirits. Drinking is far more sensible than smoking, getting drunk and damaging property and people has nothing to do with sensible drinking, thats abusing drink. I believe there's a difference between enjoying a drink and drinking to get drunk. people who drink to get drunk will drink any old rubbish, white lighting was my neighbours favourite.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Sadly Madhatter many women in the sex industry were either conned or forced into becoming substance dependant just so that their pimp can profit by it.

However the topic of this thread was and should be why it is OK to ban smoking even in the open air yet allow motor vehicles to cause more pollution than tobacco ever did.

I haven’t read one single argument from you or from anyone else that justifies this action other than to say that cars etc are necessary whereas smoking is not, which is no argument. But then that seems to be a standard tactic. If a coherent argument to counter the posed query cannot be formulated then drag the thread off topic and get it lost in a morass of not really relevant points.

So tell me again why anyone should accept the total smoking ban when those advocating the ban, with I might add a great deal of glee, do the very thing that they are complaining of with a different means.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

I gave my opinion, while the goverment continues to take tax and to treat smoking related ilnesses without question, there is no argument for it to be banned, to do so would make them hypocrites. As far as I can see, there is very few people who honestly support a ban in open public places. They may support a total ban, but what is the point in just banning it from open public places now that it's been banned from enclosed public places.
It has no logic.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

If people want to smoke then they are entitled to in this country as it is a "free country" or so they say. There is enough gunf from the govenment telling us how to live our lives without them taking potshots at people that smoke. A car produces pollution to a greater level and greater than that is industry. I live next to a refinery and the polution from there, though denied is very high especially with the burners fired up at night in the hope that its polution is not seen.

People smoke, drink, take drugs etc etc etc and it is by choice not something that is forced on them. Take away the right to choose how to abuse themselves then we might as well go back to the middle ages.

If smoking is causing the gov concern over health care then what about all those who end up in hospital due to over doing it at the gym are they to be banned, threatened, forced to stop through legislation because of cost to the NHS?

There are many ways to abuse our bodies "our" being the word that says its mine not yours so I do with it as we please. Fancy a ciggie then have one its not the polititions place to tell us not to, nor force the issue with punitive laws.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Yes but the problem with your statement is that the smoke from smoking doesn't just affect 'your' body, it goes into the air and swirls around 'others' body. In a lot of ways driving a car can be compared in more than just the fumes, the car itself can be a danger to other people.
We do quite a lot to prevent that happenenig, but have only took the easy cheap way out of curing the dangers of others being affected by smoke. They banned it from public places.
I can't help thinking that banning it in open public places is only being done to back up the first ban, because people are asking why they can't have seperate smoking rooms or total smoking pubs.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Its the same here in Montreal, the Law went into effect on May 31st. No more smoking in bars and restaurants and 9 metres away from public buildings, hopitals and clinics. It's getting ridiculous, they'll be saying next you can't smoke in your own home. The cigar bars are O.K though. They should start on about the drinking too, that can kill you as well, if you drink enough of it. I'm really p*******ed.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Sigh...

@ Jambutty: How can you moan about people dragging the thread off topic and then proceed to involve the whole alcohol topic. I appreciate you getting back to the topic at hand, namely "Why should we ban cigarettes outdoors and then still permit cars and lorries to pump out noxious gasses into the environment?"

I thought it would be obvious why a motorbike is less poluting than a car. I thought it'd be obvious that one bus is better than 20 cars (I know very few people who car share). I don't believe for one second that smoking is being banned for environmental reasons. I think it's to do with the health problems caused by passive smoking. You've said that cars produce more health problems for people than passive smoking. I'll take your word for that. Now then, what possible short term (over the next 5 years) solution can you give to stop cars from polluting? Should we all ride the bike to work? What about those who live 100 miles away from work? Should they have to change jobs? What about lorries, essential for keeping food in our supermarkets (and fags in our newsagents)? How else can we transport huge amounts of goods? It's not impossible, however, for you to stop smoking over the next 5 years. I don't mind you smoking, regardless of what I may have said thus far in the thread, *as long as it does not directly affect my health/smell of my clothes/burn holes in my jacket*. The environmental debate is, in my mind, nothing but a detraction from the real reasons that this government might want to ban smoking outside.

I find that completely heartless. I might like building traps in bus shelters. If you find my practise of trap-building so disgusting and dangerous, perhaps you should refrain from catching a bus. I'm sure that sounds as rational to you as your argument sounds to me. As for "rotting my liver"... I *rarely* drink to excess. I believe that a pint or two/a glass of wine/a whisky helps to calm my nerves. It probably reduces the likelihood of me having a mental breakdown. My liver is not going to keel over and die.

Perhaps it is possible to have a smoke once a month or so. But the only people I knew who used to do that are now turning into "only when I go out" and I'm sure they will soon become "only when I go out/am in a stressful situation". It spirals on, but they're going to become full time smokers. It's called addiction.

I like the way you classify all illegal drugs under one roof. Some drugs can and will kill you first time. But some drugs are fine in moderation. I hate weed. I can't stand it. I've seen what it can do to people. But will it kill them first time round? Not unless they choke on their blunt. It's not as addictive as smoking tobacco. So it can be used in moderation. I know a couple of people who will have a rare smoke once every two months or so. Are they stoners who can't hold down a job? Not at all.

It's not a free country at all. Anyone who tries to tell you that has his/her head in the clouds. There are restrictions for a reason. We aren't allowed to do anything we please. There are laws in place to help us to get on with each other. This smoking in pubs ban does exactly that. It goes in favour of the majority. Most people do not smoke. Why should the majority have to put up with the minority? It's ludicrous. They can take 10 minutes, have a smoke outside and then come back to the conversation. It's not some major crackdown on your human rights to abuse your body.

Which is another point. It may be *your* body, but since we have the NHS, it's the rest of society which will look after it. I'm alright doing that as long as you'll look after my body if it goes by the wayside. I'm a healthy human being, I don't do drugs, I've never even tried smoking, I don't do xtreme sports. If we had no NHS, my health insurance would be the lowest of the low (were it not for my families history of cancer). If the NHS stop treating smokers, how many of us are going to own up to being smokers? If I smoked, I sure as hell wouldn't tell the NHS.

My main point however, is that I should be able to enjoy my pint in the pub, without leaving smelling of cigarrettes and ash.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

As far as I'm concerned, tobacco should be outlawed. However as that is not entirely feesable because of the severe lack of balls in the government; an idea that could be put forward would be for the ones stupid enough to want to smoke to be allocated smoking rooms aside from the public, dotted around town centres & perhaps placed next to bus stops - enclosed of course!
I think the Lancashire County Council's act a couple of years ago to move out smoking rooms in schools, librarys etc was a wrong move; I think smoking rooms are the only way to keep both sides of this happy.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Sorry, It's the way I've put it. I don't consider weed to be a drug. drugs are drugs and weed is weed. I know people on here manage do use it in moderation and don't look ill. Notice that I said continously. Therfore I agree with your comments.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Fantastic - The Goodies are obviously back. :)

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

PMSL!!!!!!! Glad sence of humour isn't outlawed LOL:D

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

So, you don't consider cannabis a drug?

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

That made me laugh, I hadn't thought of that. It a bugga that I've never got my camera when these things happen, that would have been a crackin caption under it.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Not really,do you? If it is then so is tabaco.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

...yes but perhaps it wasn't a child being towed at the back by the bike but Jimmi Krankie.

Now that would be comedy gold, well the best news since Schnorbitz ditched Bernie Winters.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

My human rights as a smoker are equal to those of a non-smoker. I should be provided with a place to have a ciggie when I like. I've accepted, whilst in England that is, that i will be treated as a lesser person and be seated in the grottiest place in the pub. At least that is better than being shoved outside.

I've read this thread with interest but no-one has mentioned the fact that young folk, especially young women, who leave their drink unattended on the bar, whilst they slip out for a quick smoke, are subject to all sorts of rape related drugs. The old chaps can leave their false teeth in theirs, no-one will mess with them!!

Spain opted for the no smoking in public places rule on the first of January this year. Fine, not a problem. I can't smoke in the bank but the bars were allowed to choose. Nothing has changed, we can still have a ciggie sitting at the bar. Notices are displayed informing all prospective customers of it's policy. Parents of young children and pregnant women are reminded on entry.

Nowt wrong with that I think!

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

I think that you may be attaching a stigma with the word 'drug', Madhatter.
A drug is any substance that alters your state of mind and/or physical state.
I think that many have the image of drug-users as skinny white boney folk cowering in corners in council houses with needles hanging out of their arms. In fact they couldn't be farther from the truth - respected upstanding members of society use drugs - politicians, solicitors, police officers etc etc etc.
I personally see cannabis as less dangerous & has more point of existence than tobacco.
The psychological impact it has is a little stronger - :Banane25: - but the potential to get addicted is very very low.
I would rather have someone slying a quick spliff next to me in a bus stop than a tobacco smoker anyday!!
Hell knows the government are losing out on millions in revenue...

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Why do you feel that your human rights are that you should be provided with a place to have a ciggie?
No body provides me with a place to perform my bad habbits. I have to pay for the privelege.

Re: Smokers unite before it is too late.
 

Yes I suppose technically it is a drug, but I see it as being different for the reasons you state.
all the people I know that depend on weed to get them through the day, which although not in itself is addictive but the feel good factor of it can be, are thin gaunt and look ill. I mean people who smoke it all day every day. As I've said theres a big difference between that and a light user of it. I have no idea if it's made worse by the fact that these people are doing both hard drugs, heroin etc aswell as weed, but thats how they look. I'd much rather her smoke weed than being on hard drugs obviously.

I try to avoid her now but that very hard to do when your close to someone.

Just thought. maybe it's the heroin she craves but can't get it so she tries to substitute it with weed, and thats why she seems addicted.