Accrington Web - American (Georgian) style policing

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Accrington Web (https://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/index.php)

- General Chat (https://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f69/)

- - American (Georgian) style policing (https://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f69/american-georgian-style-policing-27571.html)

Ianto.W.

12-01-2007 00:51

Re: American (Georgian) style policing

Quote:

garinda, I wasn't there to witness this incident, but I just know there was the sort of attitude from the learned academic, that shouts of
'How very dare you! Don't you know who I am?'

Now now garinda the Yanks are past masters at playing that card, "you can't do that, don't you realise i'm an American citizen"

steeljack

12-01-2007 00:55

Re: American (Georgian) style policing

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 365838)

Whose the Daddy?:D

http://www.trinachow.com/blog/images..._05/folsom.jpg

yep, and probably everyone of them is a vegan .....

garinda

12-01-2007 00:55

Re: American (Georgian) style policing

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ianto.W. (Post 365839)

Now now garinda the Yanks are past masters at playing that card, "you can't do that, don't you realise i'm an American citizen"

I honestly disagree. Over 50% of my customers used to be Americans, and nearly all were respectful and uncomplaining, whilst in our country. Well once they realised it wasn't always foggy, we rode in carriages, and didn't all wear Deer Stalker hats.

Oh, and that our drinks don't always come with ice, and we have no air conditioning.:D

garinda

12-01-2007 00:57

Re: American (Georgian) style policing

Quote:

Originally Posted by steeljack (Post 365841)

yep, and probably everyone of them is a vegan .....

I suspect you are wrong. I bet they eat meat.

How very louche.:D

LancYorkYankee

12-01-2007 01:40

Re: American (Georgian) style policing

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 365824)

http://www.askoxford.com/asktheexper...ins/jaywalking

Bah, those damn Yankies are to blame again.:D

Ooh Rindy, thought you were referring to someone in Georgia as a Yankee. That'd be a HUGE faux pas! Just to protect me English mates from bloodshed if they ever happen to visit here . . . please don't refer to anyone from "the South" as a Yankee. It'd be kinda like me calling you guys . . . wait for it . . . :eek: Irishmen:eek: (he ducks at the horror).

However, the article correctly stated that jaywalking was "invented" in Boston, which, from only your guys, and the Souths, point of view could be referred to as Yankees. However, as a New Englander myself, you could also be popped up there for calling any of them folks Yankees

It's based on the hated rivalry in the game of baseball between the Boston Red Sox (yay, woohoo, yippee, Go Sox) and the hated New York Yankees (boo, hiss, eat my shorts Billcat . . .).

Okay, American etiquet lesson, and 3 lagers, over!

Brian

LancYorkYankee

12-01-2007 01:45

Re: American (Georgian) style policing

Okay, wicked thread wander here!

Rindy, I blame you for my bit of overindulgence tonight. Why the heck would you horrify us all with that pic of Nellie bloody Olson from Little House on The Prairie! Am I correct about that or am I hallucinating over here?

Oh what a little beast she was!! (not that I ever watched that girlie show, though I did "have a friend" who thought Mr. Edwards was pretty cool!

Brian

WillowTheWhisp

12-01-2007 07:12

Re: American (Georgian) style policing

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billcat (Post 365636)

And, if the cop is really concerned about jaywalking, a polite warning is usually the worst outcome.

About the only time I've ever seen a cop get upset with jaywalking is when a fellow did some very unsafe jaywalking with his children. The cop's theme was pretty much "get yourself killed if you wish, but don't endanger the kids." No ticket, just a stern warning.

That was precisely my point.

OK the guy crossed where he shouldn't have. The policeman told him. He thanked the policeman for the info, although he didn't know at the time that he was a policeman. Why on earth should it have escalated into the prof having his legs kicked out from under him and half a dozen policemen to arrest him? Did it really need so many to pin down one puny little professor? Was it his upper class English accent that caused such a furore? It seems that it would have provoked a few AccyWebbers to join in if they'd had the chance. Is that a form of snobbery in reverse?

garinda

12-01-2007 08:27

Re: American (Georgian) style policing

"Where I'm from, you don't associate young gentlemen in bomber jackets with the police. But he was extremely upset I had questioned his bona fides," recalled Fernandez-Armesto.

But Leonpacher said he asked Fernandez-Armesto why he didn't follow the instructions of a uniformed officer, and the author shrugged him off and walked away.

"He was swinging, kicking wildly," Leonpacher said.

It's hardly thanking him, and walking away, before being arrested. Sounds to me he was being an arrogant ass.

WillowTheWhisp

12-01-2007 10:00

Re: American (Georgian) style policing

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 365868)

"Where I'm from, you don't associate young gentlemen in bomber jackets with the police. But he was extremely upset I had questioned his bona fides," recalled Fernandez-Armesto.

I don't think I'd associate a young man in a bomber jacket with the police either and what's wrong with asking for ID? We ask people who come to read the meter to prove who they are don't we? OK that's because we let them into our homes, but aren't police officers supposed to show people their ID not get the 'ump about being asked for it?

Quote:

But Leonpacher said he asked Fernandez-Armesto why he didn't follow the instructions of a uniformed officer, and the author shrugged him off and walked away.

"He was swinging, kicking wildly," Leonpacher said.

Didn't the kicking wildly take place after he'd been thrown to the floor and pounced on? A fairly natural reaction I would have thought. It's not exactly pleasant to have your legs kicked out from under you and find yourself face down on the ground with several people on top of you.

Quote:

It's hardly thanking him, and walking away, before being arrested. Sounds to me he was being an arrogant ass.

The kicking of the legs from under him occurred after he was thanking and walking away and before he was flailing wildly didn't it?

I can't help wondering what would have happened if the prof had had a heart condition and suffered a heart attack whilst all this was happening. What if the officer did the same to someone in poor health and as a consequence the person died?

I'm still not convinced the actions were appropriate. Yes the guy crossed the road in the wrong place. Yes he should have been corrected for doing so - but was the punishment really equal to the crime? If he'd been a mugger who'd robbed a little old lady's handbag then I could have understood the cop flooring him to prevent his escape, but for crossing the road in the wrong place?

Yes it still puts me off visiting Georgia if this should be regarded as normal acceptable behaviour.

garinda

12-01-2007 10:05

Re: American (Georgian) style policing

Apparently he was kicking wildly when an attempt was made to arrest him, thus other officers were called to assist.

All the officers in the photograph look like policemen to me.

Then again, I'd have had the good sense to show my driving licence, and wouldn't have been arrested in the first place.

jedimaster

12-01-2007 10:15

Re: American (Georgian) style policing

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 365892)

I'm still not convinced the actions were appropriate. Yes the guy crossed the road in the wrong place. Yes he should have been corrected for doing so - but was the punishment really equal to the crime?

dont think he was floored for jaywalking i think it was more the attitude and the walking away then the kicking and flailing - couldn't this be interpreted as resisting arrest?

it is actually nice to see that police in some places in the world aren't prepared to take any cr#p

if he had done as he was asked in the first place none of this would have happened!

WillowTheWhisp

12-01-2007 10:25

Re: American (Georgian) style policing

Quote:

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 365896)

Apparently he was kicking wildly when an attempt was made to arrest him, thus other officers were called to assist.

But at what point was this "attempt" occurring? From what I could gather he was told he was going to be arrested and then his legs were kicked out from under him. Why on earth was that necessary? He wasn't a huge tough muscular bloke he is a puny little bod. Why was force necessary? Even the police officer himself described it in a way which implied it was more than he perhaps needed to have done.

I see more than 5 officers in that photo too - are we sure any of them is the one who originally approached the prof and floored him?

WillowTheWhisp

12-01-2007 10:31

Re: American (Georgian) style policing

Quote:

Originally Posted by jedimaster (Post 365905)

dont think he was floored for jaywalking i think it was more the attitude and the walking away then the kicking and flailing - couldn't this be interpreted as resisting arrest?

It sounds like he walked away because he thought the matter was ended when he'd been told it was the wrong place to cross. He thanked the young man and walked away - then was kicked to the ground.

Perhaps it boils down to the officer hadn't finished but the prof theought he had - a misunderstanding.

By walking away the officer interpreted it as resisiting arrest - a misunderstanding.

So he kicked him to the ground - a trifle OTT.

Then he called for backup because the prof was flailing about, a natural reaction to having your legs kicked out from under you. Now OTT getting out of hand.

A simple matter which could ahve been resolved with a little more understanding and tolerance of foreign visitors on behalf of the police officer.

I would like to see an image of him wearing the bomber jacket so I'd know if I would realise he was a policeman.

garinda

12-01-2007 10:51

Re: American (Georgian) style policing

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 365917)

I presume his legs were kicked from under him whilst he was kicking and flailing his arms about.

Reading the full account on the site were the video was posted, all the delegates knew there was police outside to prevent them from jaywalking, because they were complaining about it. They were there to prevent them presumably from being injured or killed, if they were knocked down.

garinda

12-01-2007 10:53

Re: American (Georgian) style policing

Quote:

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 365922)

He didn't walk away, he admitted he challenged on what authority the police officer had to see his i-d.

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