Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 430229)

No wonder im still ill.

Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 430453)

The only problem being that no matter the system is like Michael Moore will present a completely biased and over the top view on the matter. :p

Originally Posted by norwich stanley (Post 430594)

Well thats me finally sorted,kidney stone and stent have gone and i can pee normally.Thanks for best wishes garinda,cashman and willow and hope you get sorted soon Cyfr.Time for me to start living again!

Originally Posted by norwich stanley (Post 430594)

Well thats me finally sorted,kidney stone and stent have gone and i can pee normally.Thanks for best wishes garinda,cashman and willow and hope you get sorted soon Cyfr.Time for me to start living again!

Originally Posted by norwich stanley (Post 430594)

Well thats me finally sorted,kidney stone and stent have gone and i can pee normally.Thanks for best wishes garinda,cashman and willow and hope you get sorted soon Cyfr.Time for me to start living again!

Originally Posted by Ber999T (Post 431144)

Happy that you've been sorted NS drink plenty of fluids (water!!) to keep kidneys well flushed

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 430396)

I do believe that Michael Moore (Roger and Me, Bowling for Columbine, Farenheit 911) is making a movie about medical care in America. Having the good fortune to live in a country which firmly believes that medical care should be available to all citizens, I await this documentary with interest. Universal, govt. funded health care, with its problems and its f**k ups is still way better than the health care for profit system.

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb (Post 431270)

He doesn't qualify as a documentary maker since he's a stranger to the truth. Propagandist might be a better term. A couple of months ago, I heard two Canadians being interviewed on the radio. They had always been big fans of Michael Moore and decided to make a documentary about his life. They soon grew disillusioned by what they discovered about him. Tried, without success, to get a face-to-face meeting with him. They did continue to make the film, although its content ended up not being quite what they had expected. I am sitting here kicking myself for not having written down their names or the name of their film. I suspect they may have some trouble finding a distributor.

Originally Posted by Ianto.W. (Post 431714)

Just an update, and in defence of the NHS, some of the the things that have and are to come my way recently, I have just had a bath without the aid of my wife thanks to a bath lift, I have also been supplied with other bathroom aids. The stairlift man measured up earlier this week to enable my wife to go out without wondering how i'm going to get up and down stairs. These are all the 'hidden' advantages of having a NHS, occupational therapists, physio's all the other unsung heroes of this truly remarkable service. We should all thank the lord for it, and our forebears for it's creation. Everyone I know has differing experiences with all things in life, but as far as yours truly is concerned, our NHS is second to none.

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 431624)

"But the point I made about Moore's documentary, was not that all he said was to be accepted as "gospel," but that in societies which calim to tolerate a diversity in opinion, people like Moore are necessary. If a democracy is based on the informed opinions of the people, all sides (well perhaps not the Nazis and the Klan) must be allowed to state their points of view. There is no truth in politics, altho' politicians claim that they act only on the truth, in order to protect the truth.

To hold the opinion that free access to medical care, in a prosperous, democratic nation, should be a right is not a subversive opinion; and I know that it is an opinion that many of your fellow citizens hold. Having a "social safety net" is not a threat to democracy or to an economy based on free enterprise. It is merely a commitment to share the national wealth a little more equitably.

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb (Post 431860)

Yes, the U.S. has private healthcare - but it is no longer a free market system. That's very problematic for us. Hopefully, we'll be able to get back to that at some point, rather than going further into the socialist hole.

Originally Posted by Stanaccy (Post 431867)

I'm sorry, I hope I misunderstood your quote. You actually want healthcare to be run as a private free market enterprise?????

So if you are poor and sick tough sh*t?

And what is this cr*p about "going further into the socialist hole". This is aactually socialism as it is meant, SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY!! Making sure those that need hospital or medical care receive it regardless of their finacial status. I would rather pay taxes and make sure my children are cared for than have your system of private medicare and worry if their particular illness is covered.

Originally Posted by jimmi5bellies (Post 431818)

Excellent news for you. I was put on priority visit from the Occupational Therapist in January after the crash ........ IM STILL WAITING !:mad:

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 432201)

The govt. of the Province of Saskatchewan (no, you don't have to be able to pronounce it) had a great idea. Sask. is the birthplace of the healthcare system in Canada. Tommy Douglas (largely unknown except as Keifer Sutherland's grandfather) is recognized as one of those rarities, a completely honest politician. He brought in medicare over the protest of the doctors, who actually went on strike. Anyway, back to the point. Every year each resident of the province receives an itemized account of what his/her health care cost during the year. So, if you visited emrg. once it would show what that would have cost if you had to pay for it yourself. And, if you had complicated heart surgery it would show that cost too. It does bring to everyone's attention what a great benefit the system is.

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 432203)

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 432361)

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 432361)

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 432367)

In 2004, U.S. hospitals charged patients without health insurance and those who paid for care out of their own pockets an average of 2.5 times more for services than fees paid by health insurers, and 3 times more than Medicare-allowable costs, a new study finds.

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb (Post 432376)

As I said earlier.....the consumer is out of the mix. This skews everything. The government began the price fixing mess, with no regard for how much it cost a hospital or doctor to deliver a particular service. This then slopped over into the private insurance sector because hospitals and doctors were charging them a little more to make up for the losses. People who pay out of pocket often pay more because of this downward spiral. This tends to happen when you have a third party payer. In the case of your NHS, it manifests itself in shortages of equipment, specialists, etc., and waiting lists for patients.

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 432371)

In general I would have to agree ... but, also in general, Americans are generous and compassionate; more so than many others in the world. Perhaps the system they have now works for them. The American concept of freedom, and what limits are placed on government are different from those in Britain, and they are definitely different from those in Canada. But this does not change the fact that as a people they are generous and compassionate, both at home and internationally. But I still maintain my opinion that in a wealthy nation all should have access to that wealth.

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 432385)

If what we have isn't working well, how does one explain the surging looney? Hitting par with the greenback is not too far in the future.

Originally Posted by Stanaccy (Post 431879)

Yes I read the link, although taking it seriously stopped when I read

"The moral code underlying Canada’s healthcare system can be inferred from how it is practiced. Everyone has free and equal access to healthcare providers (which naturally generates a lot of demand). Providers bill the government for services rendered. Government pays providers with the money it extorts via highly progressive taxation. Government has the power to restrict healthcare spending (which logically leads to long waiting lists and wait times)."

Sorry as soon as I read spin doctor speach like "extorts via highly progressive taxation" I sort of switch off. Especially as I read it, it seems to say "stuff the poor they can die even though we have the expertise to treat them."

I thought the US was a Christian country, or is like everything else you just choose the bits you like!!! What about the good samaritan? or the beatitudes? Or do they not fit in to righteous capitalism?

Oh and also just one thing, Cuba's life expectancy is about the same as the US so seems they are doing something right, regardless of how rich the country is.

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb (Post 432396)

Dear Willow, one doesn't make charitable donations with the expectation of getting something in return, (beyond the joy of helping one's fellow man).

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb (Post 432402)

I consider my earnings to be my property, not that of the State. The Left is obsessed with equality of outcomes rather than equality of opportunity. Some people are smarter than others. They invent things. Take risks when they start a business. Use their God given talents well and invest their assets wisely. I have never bought into the class/wealth envy game. Remarkable really when you consider where I was raised.

Originally Posted by Eric (Post 432426)

And if you get sick, the hospitals are damn good.

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb (Post 432436)

Yes, if you are a visitor with foreign currency to spend. Likewise if you are part of the Cuban elite or military. Not so for the ordinary Cuban citizen, though. First hand accounts abound. I am amazed that you don't know this. One of my English relatives flies to Cuba at least twice a year. He always takes supplies for Cuban friends there. Even simple things like aspirin are often unavailable except on the black market.

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 432431)

Originally Posted by Stanaccy (Post 432438)

So if it is so bad how come their life expectancy is the same as the US???

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb (Post 432445)

Poverty need not be a handicap, unless you make it one. That's the great thing about America. People rise on their merits and determination. It happens all the time.

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb (Post 432446)

You assume that the figures put forth by the Cuban dictatorship are accurate. I don't.

Originally Posted by bullseyebarb (Post 432445)

Poverty need not be a handicap, unless you make it one. That's the great thing about America. People rise on their merits and determination. It happens all the time.

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 432483)

Yes, America's richest list, and Washington's corridors of power, are awash with people who are the descendants of cotton pickin' slaves...not.

Originally Posted by steeljack (Post 432487)

Well I think its been a while since Oprah was shucking corn or washing the clothes for dem white folks :D:D

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 432519)

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 432519)

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 432638)

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 434243)

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 434358)

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 432638)

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 434357)

had to pick up my prescription- was told sorry we seem to have lost it- no problem as its your repeat i will order it,and you can pick it up friday! i replied there is a problem- i have to trail back here.:rolleyes:

Originally Posted by mez (Post 434813)

my surgery is up ossy too gone down the pan this last 6 months.

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 434831)

The receptionist said "is he one of our patients?" :eek:.

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 434840)

:(:mad: unbelievable! I wonder how they feel knowing that the man died.

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 434883)

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 434797)

Answer next time should be something like - no problem I will wait here while you go now and get the Doctor to sign a new one, while you are with the Doctor you can explain you have a very unhappy patient in reception complaining about your competence.

Originally Posted by WillowTheWhisp (Post 434883)

Originally Posted by blazey (Post 434884)

Its a shame that the doctor didnt help but its difficult for doctor to make that decision really as its his job on the line if he doesnt check everything properly before he goes to do something. Sad world.

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 434887)

The person was stood at the reception, the surgery is about 200 yards from where the man lived.

Originally Posted by cashman (Post 435895)

gotta say more kudos to the NHS - went to a gig at southport theatre friday night, completely forgot about the stitches in me hand, was great and like a dummy i clapped, felt a warm damp in me hand lol, sat morning 2 of me fingers were sore n me hand, bandage looked like summat out of MASH, so paris nagged me to go accy vic, case i'd bust me stitches, went- booked in- lass told me over 2hour wait - waiting room full- not a happy cashy,lol after about 10 mins the nurse called me into the room for more details, she removed the bandage n said yer stitches are ok, its fluid that you felt last night, then she said I will clean it and re-dress it now, you have no need to sit in there for 2 hours with that, so she did and a very happy cashy left after about 20 mins, thought that was great n much credit for common sense. wish i'd used it friday night.:)

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 435903)

Glad they treated your clap so speedily.:D

Originally Posted by garinda (Post 435903)

Glad they treated your clap so speedily.:D

Originally Posted by Neil (Post 434887)

The person was stood at the reception, the surgery is about 200 yards from where the man lived.



What a crock, the Doctor could have done what any trained first aider would do, try to preserve life until the cavalry arrive. That is what I am taught as a first aider.

Originally Posted by Cyfr (Post 418460)

Where do I start. Christmas 2005 I started getting really bad headaches and then felt really sick, so I went to my doctor when it continued for a few days.
I was given medication, the headaches went away but the sickness didn't and I also had bad stomach pains.

The pains got so bad in early January that I called 999 because it was that bad at one point. I had bloods done, and more medications and a drip because I'd lost a lot of fluid from being sick all the time.

Over time throwing up stopped (months we're talking) but the feeling sick and pain did not stop. I went back to my doctor many many times, he gave me lots of different types of medication none of which helped. I had an endoscopy (camera down in to my stomach) which I had to wait like 8weeks for, and a CT scan which was also going to be an 8weeks wait. However its not as if I just had 16weeks and I was all checked out, had to go in and out of the doctors and out of patients surgery every few weeks, sometimes more than once a week, in order to convince them that they needed to put me on the waiting list.

Neither the Endoscopy or CT scan showed anything conclusive. So my doctor and consultant basicly put it down to something i'd have to live with.

I kept going back and annoying my doctor, because I wasn't getting better, feeling sick EVERY DAY and nothing was working. By now its had a major impact on my every day life, I mean how would you feel to be sick 24/7?

We insisted we be refered to a specialist in Manchester which we were, weeks and weeks later I got another test for stomach acid. Then another 6weeks later (today) I visited Manchester Royal Infirmary for the results.

We had to wait 2hours longer than our appointment time, then we saw a doctor, who wasn't the consultant which we had on our letter, who had NO case notes, NO test results had NO idea what had been going on for the last 1.5years, and gave me medication which i've already had and didn't work. Now I have to wait a further 7weeks to be seen again.

I really can't express how angry I am. I have been passed pillar to post for the last 1.5years and it's quite frankly beyond the joke. The waiting times are a joke for things they could just tell me over the phone, or things that just don't need to wait that long for, the communication between departments is a shambles. How am I ever supposed to get anywhere if I have to explain my situation to a different doctor everytime I visit? I'm not getting any followups, im being treated as a new patient everytime I visit.

One point five years. I'm an otherwise healthy 18year old who should be enjoying life, but I can't. I don't understand how they can get it so wrong. Why can't somebody sit down, understand the situation, follow the situation through to the end resulting in a diagnosis and treatment?

Quite frankly, Mr Blair, Mr Brown, and New Labour, your waiting times might be down, but it dosn't mean a damn thing if people are not getting better.