Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Dedication to the cause, that's what I admire about you!

You'll be throwing yourself under the King's horse at the Derby, if we don't keep a close eye on you.:D

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Ya' daft bat .. will have to wait a while 'til we have a king...still it sorta' worked, didn't it .. does PB own a horse? .:D

Trying all the trump cards I can think of on this issue, thought this point was hilarious.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Did anyone else read Peter Britcliffe's column in today's Observer.He said,regarding the name change of the borough,

'It is the opinions of those who live here that matter.There is still time to give us your view by calling in at the Market Hall.Please take the opportunity when you are in town.'

Can anyone enlighten me as to what is going on in the Market Hall? Have they put a comments box for this in there or something?:confused:

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

God knows. Whatever it is, it hasn't been very well publicised. I was in there on Tuedsay and saw nothing about it.

Perhaps if you buy smokey bacon you are against the change of name, and if you don't you're in favour of it.

Clarification would be nice.:confused:

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Was more than a little vague that, wasn't it Lilly? Perhaps felt obliged to mention it to us voters, but not too keen on actually getting our opinion .. ;)

Heard one or two adverts from 'Taskers of ACCRINGTON' last night on the telly, noticed they didn't say HYNDBURN .. as business people never would !

See he was still milking the point about the Mayor meeting the Duke .. :rolleyes: Clutching at straws yet again.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Yes,very vague,Katex.If you didn't read Peter's column then you would not have known anything about this.Even for those of us who did read it,he didn't actually state what is happening in the Market Hall regarding this issue.It should have been explained better and publicised a lot more.I suppose we could email him and ask but we shouldn't have to do that,should we?:confused:
If anyone does find out what's in the Market Hall can you let us all know?I wonder how much time we've got left.Probably not much:confused:

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Done it .. let's see what answer I get. ;)

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Will you let us know,Katex?:)

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Been in the market hall, there is a stall with leaflets on asking for your opinions. You just fill them in and post in a box, it is where the sewing box was. Hope that is helpful.:D

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Oh right,thanks Bernadette:).This should have been better publicised in the Observer.I wonder how many people know about this and have filled in one of the forms.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

I didn't know about it till I read the thread earlier, so thought I'd look while I was in town. Didn't seem to be anybody in charge of it. We will see if anybody uses it!!!:confused:

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Thanks Bernie .. was thinking of looking meself, but don't sell the make-up I use in Accy, so had to go to Burnley. :rolleyes:

Probably won't get a reply from PB 'til the leaflets have been removed. Appears to be a rather weak effort though, doesn't it, to get our opinion ?
So did you ?

An afterthought... got the form to fill in for the Electoral Register today .. perhaps they could have included some sort of survey, voting sheet in this ... after all it is connected. Greg Pope suggested could do this at the Polling Booths, so not quite out of order I would not think.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Just had a quick glance, I didn't go down till late. Really don't think it matters one way or another, think the decision is out of our hands. Just my point of view could be completely wrong. We haven't got our forms yet, it would probably have generated more replies that way as it is dealing with issues such as coats of arms for each place i.e Accy, Church and each outlying village. As I say we will just have to wait and see.:confused:

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

The election is a legal process so can't be tampered with i.e. you can't send out any additional info/questionnaire etc with electoral roll stuff.

I spoke to Greg about this and his idea was that the questionnaire about the name would be done at the same time as the election but would have to be done outside the polling station as people left - not as part of the election process itself.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

But they could have sent a questionaire out with all the council tax bills, which would be the most cost effective way of finding out if the majority of people support this change, at least more so than an unpublicised stall on the market, which is open to all sorts of abuse.

Infact I might spend the whole of next week stood there filling in multiple forms.:D

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

You might find yourself on shaky ground doing that




ok I'll get my coat :D

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

There's not many of you that can pull off an anorak.;)

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Never got a reply from my e-mail Lilly .. :( Maybe I shouldn't have indicated that I had strong views on this, and not in his favour .. will never make a politician, will I ?:rolleyes:

Decided to shop in Accy yesterday afternoon, walked around the Market Hall twice and could not see the stand, unless I maybe just happened to blink a couple of times.. :confused: Went armed with a new pen too so that it wouldn't run out with my comments.. :D

Pleased to see that the Observer are stilling printing some 'against' letters though, after their original front page comment of 'for'.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

I wasn't down yesterday, but it was definetly there during the week:confused:

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

The fact that you never had a reply, is the height of bad manners, and makes a mockery of Britcliffes's friend John Farrer's remarks in the press about Greg Pope not being accessible, even more galling.

All correspondence should always be answered. Not to do so shows the sort of ignorance we've come to expect from these people.:mad:

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

If the results of this brief, unpublicised, poll are used by Britcliffe to get this change through, there'll be rioting in the streets...at least by me!

Hardly the finest show of democracy at work is it?

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

I was always taught this too Garinda, particularly since E-mails have been introduced into business, you always reply even if it is just to say haven't got your information, but will be back soon, etc.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

If it turns out that you never get a reply to your email Katex then that is inexcusable and terribly bad manners. As you say, emails should always be replied to even if just to let the person know that you're looking into the matter for them.
Don't abandon hope yet though. Just a thought.... I have just remembered once being told that the council has a break for the summer holiday so if this is the case then your email possibly may not have been picked up yet. Hopefully you will receive a reply when normal service is resumed in September. If not, then I agree with you, there's no excuse for it.:(

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

I will not abandon hope then .. still the leaflets will be gone or have gone by then. :(

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Bump, bump.

Things have gone very quiet on this issue, what is he up to I wonder ?... ya' know when your children go quiet and you just know they're up to summat .. :eek:

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Mmmm .. Willow, could be correct ... tactics like.

Perhaps still reading the comments from the so-called Market Hall questionnaires ... wonder who got those anyway ?

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

The stall was still there last week.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Really Bernie, thanks .. will try and get there.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Don't know when I'm in town next but if it's before weekend will let you know if it is still there.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

I've been to the stall in the Market Hall and filled in a form.

Considering the population of Hyndburn, it's hardly the height of democracy, and if the resulting mini-consultation is used as proof that people want a change, there'll be an even bigger stink, if one much needed penny is spent on it.

You don't even have to put your name and address on the form, which again creates flaws.

They'll know mine from the flamboyant, shaky, handwriting...and the vitriolic comments contained within.:D

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

DO we have people in Hyndburn who are sad enough to do that?

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

What slightly bothers me is the fact that it's being done in Accrington. Of course the people of Accrington are going to think it's a good thing, they think we're going 'back' to what it used to be! Wrong, wrong, wrong!

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

If I lived in Accrington I'd still think it was a complete and utter waste of money.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

I suspect a higher proportion of people from Accrington will agree with the proposal compared to the proportion of people from Ossy, Rishton, Huncoat, etc.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Neil mate theres people everywhere that are sad enough to do things like that.;)

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Neil, both you and I know the lengths some people will go to if they want to get their own way. ;)

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Hey, you don't have to tell me that - I'm as opposed to it as you are!

My point earlier on was that they've done the consultation in the centre of Accrington where the odds are that they will get a favourable result!

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

I know, look what I had to do to get you as secretary and you still have not done last months minutes :rolleyes::D

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

It's not a case of being dim, most people just won't care what they do or call it.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Why? They might like the name idea but not care about the money spent or not realise what it will really cost. If we all had the same opinions it would be a boring old world.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

And that's another problem with consultations - often people believe that common sense will triumph so they don't bother to vote or give their opinion. Which means that people who have no common sense sometimes get their way. :(

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

That is how Politics works, you only get the information that will make you vote the way the person giving the information wants you too. That is if you are any good at politics anyway. I would make reference to the Gobbin Lamp but can't be bothered to explain just now.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Yes, strange that this daft idea was announced just weeks after the last elections.

Perhaps they thought they couldn't defend spending any money on it, if they'd had to defend the proposal on our doorsteps.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

One thing about this that bothers me is how do 2 of our surrounding councils cope with no noticeable town name in them?

These being The Ribble Valley and Rossendale. Blackburn with Darwen is self explanatory, but Burnley and Pendle? Do any southerners know what Pendle is?

Of course it will get voted through as most of the borough live in Accrington. How long though afterwards before the name is just Accrington?

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

I will type up the story for you soon.

As far as I can remember no Hyndburn money was spent on it. I would have to check through the old Area Council Minutes that I have somewhere to be sure.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

I was referring to the proposed name change, which was announced just weeks after the election, and which will cost us money.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

I'm not against the name change myself but I can see that some of you are. Apart from the questionnaire thing in the Market Hall you could have aired your views/concerns at various Area Council Meetings. Did anybody go to any of these?

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

I go to the Oswaldtwistle Area Council Meeting whenever I am not working. I have missed the last 2 I think.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

I am quite suprised at the reaction this proposal is getting. When I worked in Rishton the general impression I got was that people preffered having the areas to be known as they were prior to Hyndburn being introduced.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Rishton will still be Rishton, whether it is in the political borough known as Hyndburn, or Accrington and Districts.

The only difference is that keeping the name as it is, won't cost us a penny.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

I know that Rishton will still have the same name, I guess what I was really trying to find out is will control still be held by Hyndburn or will it be each district will be able to manage their own finances?

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Nothing will change, that's the whole point. We aren't going back to pre-1974 days, with each town having it's own independent urban council. All power will remain with the muppets at the Town Hall/Scaitcliffe House.

The only thing that they want to change, at some significant cost, is the political name of the borough, from Hyndburn to the parochial sounding Accrington and Districts.

When will they get it into their heads that none of us use the bloody name Hyndburn????

We say we are from Accy/Ossy/Rishton/Harwood etc.

The only people this change will benefit is the leader of the council and the mayor. Who apparently get all teary and hurt, at fancy royal bun fights, when asked to explain where Hyndburn is. They are the only two people who have to use the bloody name outside of the district.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Okay I think I get your point now:D

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Understand where you are coming from Lilly. They are holding public meetings in various towns throughout the coming Autumn (had one in Clayton already).. think I put a post up somewhere.

Unfortunately, I am obliged to work during the day to earn a salary to keep me in the style I am accustomed to :D, so disables me from attending these meetings, otherwise I would love to.

We (who are opposed to this change) are doing our best to express our views on here, speak directly to councillors, e-mail and letters to the Observer as well as the survery in the market hall.

When this issue hots up, am determined that views will be aired.

Think maybe the time is coming when we ought to consolidate all our views from here into one paper. Against of course !! ..... or 'for' ? only one point put forward on this issue, and that is we have a renowned Football Team (who everyone takes the mickey when they hear the name). Ok, there is the awful tragedy of the Pals, however, it is quite famous in its own right. Still can't see what the name change will do for our borough either financially or promotion wise.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Willow I think you missed what I was asking really, I just wanted to know if each area would be in charge of it's own finances as it used to be. I think most people prefered it when it was that way!!

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Never thought of that Willow .. like that, like it a lot .. problem is nobody voting yet, as I can see. :(

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

I urge you all to read page 46 of today's Telegraph.

Snuck away at the back is the news that we will become Accrington and District in the New Year. Funny, but I don't remember reading the results of the consultation anywhere.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

bump bump

Did anyone see the piece in the back of today's Telegraph?

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Yes I read it Gayle, seems like the decision has already been made if what they say is true.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

This one ?

Trading In Its Name (from Lancashire Telegraph)

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Trading In Its Name (from Lancashire Telegraph)

It's actually the Chamber of Trade that's changing it's name, though Britcliffe seems to think that the borough name change is also a fait accompli.

Britcliffe's words that this will not cost anything, may come back to haunt him. I will make it my personal goal to find out all the true costs, if this change goes ahead.

By the way, Chamber of Trade?

I didn't know charity shops were allowed in those.

Accrington is dieing on it's arse, due to these incompetents on the council, who I wouldn't trust to manage a jumble sale, never mind a multi-million pound budget.

Still, if you can't succeed in the real business world, at least being in the Town Hall keeps them off the streets.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

AAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HOW BLOODY DARE THEY !!!!!!

This is definitely war, what a blooming waste of our hard-earned money, a step back in time which will do no good to promote our area whatsoever.

I am furious that this decision seems to have been made on a whim of a jumped up councillors back.

They say sleep on a problem, yes, I will ... don't think I will feel any different tomorrow though.

:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: ( x 1,000)

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

The Traders seem to welcome the news.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Maybe there'll be more about it in the Observer tomorrow. I don't think it was ever said that changing the name would cost nothing, what was said by the council at the start was that to change the name would cost in the region of £20,000 but it was stressed that it would not cost us any extra on next year's council tax. We will not see proof of that until we get our new bills next March.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Ok, Garinda .. yes, you correct, however, the Telegraph (by the way Gayle bin looking for the National Paper all day) does state "when the borough changes its name earlier in the New Year".

Do you think they coud possibly be just making assumptions ? Or do they know summat we don't know ?

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

The way it reads the decision has already been made.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

It does read like that, Bernadette. Unless they're misleading us. Like I said, maybe there'll be a more detailed story in the Observer.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

I know exactly what the council said. It was reported that they had put £20,000 aside out of their budget, which would be for new road signs, and which from my investigations would cover the cost and erection of only four signs, not even enough for Oswaldtwistle. No mention of it costing us anything else. We shall see.

As for the Hyndburn Chamber of Commerce, they are based at Scaitcliffe House, say no more.

Trading In Its Name (from Lancashire Telegraph)

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

There's nothing in the Observer, by the way.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Yes, did read that way Bernie ... however ??

Lilly .. nothing in t'Observer.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

I'm surprised at that. I thought there would be if a decision has been made.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Soooo .. all your fault then .. you've a lot to answer to Willow .. :rolleyes:

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

A sensible decision by the Chamber of Trade....I hope the borough renaming follows quickly. :)

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Never felt better, thank you...and I STILL think it's a good idea to rename the borough!

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

An update on renaming the Borough
 

Peter Britcliffe did believe he could force through a majority vote on this issue. However due to special voting circumstances on this issue he needs not 51% but 67% of Councillors to vote for it. The Conservatives plus Nick Collingrdige (who always votes Tory on big issues) make around 55% of Councillors. So things have got messy.

The Labour Group of Councillors are not discussing the issue thoroughly until full costings have been produced. Earlier this month all council section heads were asked to undertake a review of costs as Labour Councillors dug their heels in against PB. This should have been done at the beginning rather than the post election newspaper fanfare which came out of the blue surprising everyone in the Council, never mind the public. Since then, no reports or findings have been produced and the Tories have an air of 'our policies should be automatically voted through as we run the Council'. There is resentment to this naturally.

In order to win the vote and look good PB has made an offer.

That there is a free vote whereby all Councillors in the areas against the name change look good and vote against. 4 Tories 1 Labour in Harwood, 2 Tories 1 Labour in Rishton and 1 Tory in Clayton. That all the Ossy and Accrington Councillors vote for which will produce a narrow yes vote to change the name. I have to say the public are being stitched up.

The Tories are now desperate to get a decision from Labour Councillors and behind the scenes pressure is being applied. PB has said he will not debate this issue in Full Council unless enough Labour votes are in the bag. He will only have a debate provided he knows he is going to win. If not, he will scrap the decision and blame Labour Councillors.

I believe the goings on are not only undemocatic, nee corrupt almost, they represent at least a total sham. Decisons should be made fairly, properly, and on the basis of knowledge and with some evidence.

Labour Councillors have asked for figues on costings for a referendum. PB has said it will be 35,000 now and he is refusing to have a referendum. Says his Area Council consultations are enough (where the voting results were corrupted). He also is refusing to cost a May referendum, running in conjunction with next years local elections, because he does not want it to become a political issue he says in areas against the name change where he has the majority of councillors (Harwood, Rishton and Clayton) and where he might lose seats because of it.

The question still remains from Labour Councillors "How much will a referendum cost in May when we have the Polling Stations up and running anyway?". We believe the cost of that will be under 10,000GBP.

Clr Pritchard Snr defection to the blue corner has aired the private misgivings of many Labour Councllors. PB is now frightned he has lost the vote so has stated that Labour Councilors must come forward and say which way they will vote prior to the council meeting. That is where we are up to now.

Hyndburn Labour Group of Councillors are a very serious and honest bunch of people and they will not take part in any sham. Decisions have to be based on the best facts available, not a whim. I can't see enough facts coming forward about the true costs which may run into 100,000GBP+.

If PB carries through his threat of votes up front, no referendum, all without evidence, then the name change is likely to be all but dead.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Thanks for the info Graham

Re: An update on renaming the Borough
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 482775) Peter Britcliffe did believe he could force through a majority vote on this issue.......

Are you saying from your post that you are accusing Peter Britcliffe of being corrupt or possibly being involved with vote fixing?

Quote:

Originally Posted by g jones (Post 482775) Clr Pritchard Snr defection to the blue corner has aired the private misgivings of many Labour Councillors.

I was under the impression that the misgivings of many Labour Councillors for down to the leadership of the local Labour Party. Is that incorrect Graham?
was

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Thanks for that very interesting information Graham.

I don't know why, but I have a picture in my head of that other megalomaniac Nero, who played his fiddle whilst Rome burned.

Full costings of this proposed name change should be made public, and then a proper decision can be made.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

If you look at old pictures drawings gary the likenness to Nero is striking
This cretin need s stopping now how can one person have so much power is it the indepenents that are the monkey in the woodpile?

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Far better for the image of the borough to have a well-known name than the monicker of an anonymous river which is renowned for its stink locally and totally unknown outside the confines of East Lancashire.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

...and when in the course of your daily conversations do you use the political name of the borough?

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

I don't but I'm not looking to attract inward investment or grants to the area or to promote the borough generally. Names/first impressions/image counts for a lot in today's media-conscious world.

Re: Hyndburn to be axed.
 

Trust me, I know all about marketing, certainly more than this shower.

In my opinion changing the name of the borough will not make one iota of difference in attracting investment to the area. Indeed changing the name again, after thirty three years, may very well have the opposite affect.