War veterans
 

Could we have a topic about war veterans please? I'm interested in what the general public think they deserve upon returning from war. All wars are of interest from the World wars to Vietnam, The Gulf war and The Argentinian war. Should we treat them any better than anyone else and, should we treat them even better after a particularly bloody war?

Re: War veterans
 

The daily food allowance for prisoners is a few pence more per day than for servicemen/women. That must say something about the government’s view of our service personnel.

The major reason why we are not speaking either Spanish, French or German is because for the last thousand years or more our soldiers and sailors and in modern times the air force have repelled all invasions.

Walter Raleigh showed the Spanish that quality will always triumph over quantity as the Spanish Armada was sent packing.

Horatio Nelson and the Duke of Wellington put a spoke in Napoleon’s ambitions of world domination.

The British armed forces showed Kaiser Wilhelm II that his European ambitions would not bear fruit.

That jumped up corporal Hitler had similar ambitions but once again it was primarily the British armed forces that stood in his way until the industrial might of the USA and men swayed the balance.

Argentine President Leopoldo Galtieri tried his luck with the Falkland Islands and got a bloody nose for his trouble

Since WWII the British servicemen and women have carried out their duties with bravery and distinction wherever they were sent in spite of having to use equipment that left a great deal to be desired.

Their reward for putting their lives on the line has been abysmal with the latest insult being the award of the Veterans’ Lapel Badge and certificate to all surviving ex-servicemen and women. The Lapel Badge, cheaply made in China, has two dents in the face and the certificate didn’t even name the recipient. Please see below. I have amended the generic certificate to what it should have been.

http://www.accringtonweb.com/forum/f...men-22405.html refers.

At least the government had the decency to declare that henceforth 27th June will be Veterans’ Day. Even then the government has hijacked that day as the day that Gordon Brown becomes the new PM.

So in a nutshell it has always been a case of thanks for putting your life on the line, now push off.

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Rather a strange set of questions.
Most returning servicemen dont expect special treatment.
Have you had a bad experience?

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The questions were brought about by something I was watching on American TV this morning. In America there seems to be the idea that the Vietnam vets were hard done by. I just wondered what a wider audience thought is all.

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Especially with the fact your talking 5 minutes on a mail merge. Advertisements can do it but not the people doing these awards ? Disgraceful.

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I dont think they deserve special treatment. Its just their chosen career at the end of the day to do something for the country.
Bin men and teachers do things for the country and they dont get any particularly special treatment.

This current 'war' isnt a proper war anyway as theyre only in Iraq to help the people there arent they, not fight against them all. Saying that I dont quite know anything about the thing in Afghanistan.

As far as I'm aware though there isn't an official declaration of war,troops are just there to help the countries regain full power and basically fight against the violent people there who I suppose are a bit like revolutionists arent they?

Many people do things for the country and don't get particular recognition so I don't think there is a particular need. If we were in an actual war right now and people were being forced into joining and volunteering then those returning deserve recognition.

I'd say right now though the troops aren't providing much for are own country but more in the countries theyre actually in so if anything, they deserve rewarding over there.

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Many war veterans were conscripted into the armed forces.

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the american troops in iraq are mainly conscript as far as i'm aware.

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Thats the word I was thinking of a bit further down my post and yeh i said they do deserve treatment.
I was mainly referring to the 'war' in Iraq thats going on right now.

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Do we award American troops in our country? I wasn't aware of that.

Who in America has to be conscripted for war then? Those with no jobs or education on going?

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oh i must be blind blazey, it does mention this country:rolleyes: also thought national service was mandatory in the usa.

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if national service is mandatory who is it mandatory to exactly? who goes to the universities if all the young americans are at war?

I know obviously piltymon is on about america but i was asking whether we award american troops in UK when they return home?

I don't think any troops expect rewards as they are happy to serve for their country wherever they may be.

I don't really think I could give an opinion on being grateful for winning the wars either as it might be better leadership for all I know under another country and none of the languages particularly bother me either.

I think my post didnt deserve any rudeness seen as I'm referring to my own country, why on earth would I be referring to Americas policies on rewarding their troops if i dont live there.

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The war in Vietnam was massively unpopular, especially in America, which goes a long way towards explaining why soldiers returning from that war were sidelined.
America tried to ignore soldiers from that war for a long time. In fact, they tried to ignore the war altogether! For example, it wasn't until the mid-1980s that Hollywood acknowledged Vietnam as anything other than a backdrop for another story (e.g. Apocalypse Now).

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The more I read your posts Blazy the more I wonder what planet your on.

When I was your age I was serving in the Army on active service in Malaya.
The bullets were real - I am not being rude but take your attitude out on other subjects.....not this one

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I am actually interested in any and all countries and everyones views. The original post wasn't meant to be country specific.

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Yeh the bullets may have been real but what difference does that make exactly?

You got shot at and no doubt you shot back. You kill and they killed.
Doesnt necessarily mean they deserve any specific recognition for it?

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I don't wish to belittle binmen and teachers (in fact, I was a binman myself 37 years ago with Accy Corporation), but I think our brave servicemen and women deserve a little more respect than that.

The fact is, they risk their lives everyday in the service of this country. I don't agree with the current war in Iraq, but they can't pick and choose the wars they fight in. They are there to defend our country, with their lives if necessary, and as, such, they deserve to be held in the very highest regard.

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I wasn't saying they shouldnt be given respect, I said I think the honour of the job is enough for them anyway.

Bin men have a dangerous job and these days teachers have a dangerous job aswell.
The services right now arent doing something direct for our country, theyre helping another who dont have their own decent services. Hence my point that the reward should be from the country theyre helping and the respect off us.

If people perhaps stop trying to pick fault with what i'm saying they'll read it properly and understand the intention of what im saying.

The question was for opinions on rewards and I gave it, I didnt say the army was not worth rewarding at all.

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The original post was about war veterans. Well done for turning it in to a student union debate on the current war/fight/peace march in Iraq.

Millions have died serving this country and they definately did not 'choose' it as a career.

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Strange, I thought I was entering into a reasoned debate with you. Are you going to start saying that everyone who disagrees with you is "picking fault"? :(

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Gee Blazey - what is it like to be young without experience of real life other than the student lifestyle & your attitude is of lack of any comprehension of anything in life, your attitude is arrogant & ignorant. My grandfather god less him would of gladly given you a few 'home truths' about the effects of war - fighting for OUR freedom today way back in WW2!!:mad:

Re: War veterans
 

the US ended conscription /national service/the draft soon after the end of the conflict in Vietnam , since then it has been an all volunteer military ie all the US forces in Iraq and Afghanistan are like the British forces, all volunteer, although....Some folks think that they have been drafted/conscripted since they are members of various national guard units ,similar to to the UK home guard during WW2 [ dads army units to be used for home defense in case of foriegn attack] and they never thought they would be mobilized for overseas duty.
As for the Vietnam Vets recieving a bad reception on returning back to the US , I think this is more an urban myth than anything , I know and have worked with plenty of guys who were over there and never has anyone of them said they were given a bad reception on returning home .
I agree with what Jambutty said in an earlier post about the treatment of returning British service personnel , its allways been the case of ,okay the wars is over , thanks , now ****** off ........(read the Rudyard Kipling poem Tommy )
Tommy
I went into a public-'ouse to get a pint o'beer,
The publican 'e up an' sez, "We serve no red-coats here."
The girls be'ind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:

O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's ``Thank you, Mister Atkins,'' when the band begins to play,
The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
O it's ``Thank you, Mr. Atkins,'' when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
They gave a drunk civilian room, but 'adn't none for me;
They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,
But when it comes to fightin', Lord! they'll shove me in the stalls!

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, wait outside";
But it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide,
The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,
O it's "Special train for Atkins" when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep
Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;
An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit
Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy how's yer soul?"
But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll,
The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
O it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,
But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints:
Why, single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;

While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, fall be'ind,"
But it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind,
There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,
O it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires an' all:
We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck him out, the brute!"
But it's "Saviour of 'is country," when the guns begin to shoot;
An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;
But Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!

Another difference between the UK and US forces is that the US after the end of WW2 has allways tried to bring its dead home for burial , none of the stiff upper lip, laying in a foriegn field stuff , infact last week some remains from the Korean conflict were returned stateside and recieved full military funerals, as recently as the Falklands war the British war dead were still being buried in battlefield gravesites and not returned to the UK.

:)

Re: War veterans
 

I gave my opinion of the past wars and the current wars.

I said that those fighting in past wars deserve their recognition as many where pushed into it.
The current 'war' that isnt an official war doesnt NEED rewarding, at least of british troops, because they are choosing to help another country and fight the problems there. therefore those countries should repay them with medals or whatever and we should just honour them and respect them for helping somewhere else.

Just because I have an opinion on the current war doesnt make it something on student unions talk about, Im not even interested in the student union.

And so far people have only criticised what I've said. Where is the need for debate in this topic? I havent even said anything controversial

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And your point is what?

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My dad was injured on the beaches of Dunkirk and spent many years trying to regain his health....and as a family we struggled to make ends meet.
In his latter years again he turned to the benefits system for a helping hand to get a pair of glasses......none was given because my mother earned 50 pence more than was permitted at the time.......so if we are talking of past wars and a home fit for heroes.....then you are having a laugh.

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I didnt even say I didnt think veterans of past wars didnt deserve recognition.

I study history and I know enough about what happened in the bloody war to think they deserve recognition but I dont think they need any extra material reward as the majority would say the honour of fighting in the war is enough.

Even if we had ever lost a war, who's to say a foreign leadership would be a bad thing. The queens not british and she rules quite well.

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The honour is enough, there is no need for medals and certificates.

I didnt realise we were discussing the benefit system.

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Would you then differentiate between those who served in past wars, and the present war?

Should the war dead, and those returning, be afforded any less compassion?

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the US seems to show more respect to its service personnel , dead or alive than HMG .

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British troops aren't "choosing" to help another country. They have gone there as part of their official duties and, as such, deserve our respect just as much as those who have served in any other conflict.

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No we weren't discussing benefits, but we were discussing whether veterans returned from war were dealt with fairly...this must include their health and well being...with which some of the soldiers paid for the rest of their lives.....their wellbeing was compromised by fighting for the freedom that you Blazey, enjoy. Perhaps you don't see the connection there...but because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
The returning soldiers were told that they would return to a land fit for heroes.......and my dad couldn't even get himself a pair of specs.

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I'm interested in every aspect from every point of view. Medals, benefits, what families of lost soldiers think and what returning soldiers think. Any country, religion or political system! I'd rather see opinions of the subject than people putting others down or just bickering though.

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So you think that perhaps a regime that killed over 6,000,000 Jews and other such 'untermensch', killed over 20,000,000 Russians and killed or maimed many thousands of other allied troops, MIGHT NOT BE A BAD THING? You claim to know about history? Give over lass, you know nowt about owt!

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And british troops CHOOSE their job, and then go to do their duty in that job. Nobody in this country forces them into their job. Unless you want to go into a debate about the armies lovely approach at those who dont have qualifications, making it look like an unqualified teenagers only option for a career.

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All part and parcel I'm afraid.

My twenty two year old grandfather was killed whilst my granny was pregnant my Mum. The then pittance of a War Widow's pension (benefits to you) helped put food on the table.

Rebel without a bloody clue.:(

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I like nothing more than a good heated discussion and have been known to manufacture a controversial view or two, but even in my most creative moments I couldn't even dream up the kind of naive rubbish you are typing blazey.

I know you're young, but your naivity is outstanding. I'd quit now, as it's becoming a bit embarrassing. :D

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The russians raped 3million german civilians to get their own back after the war, I think that was enough to get their own back dont you?

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You also think that the conflict in Iraq isn't a real war....well, they are being shot at with real bullets, and being car bombed with real explosives.
The British troops aren't out there trying to rebuild the country, they are out there trying to keep warring factions of Iraqis apart.

Re: War veterans
 

If advice is needed.......Read up on your subject first. before going worldwide with your comment or opinion.
My Grandparents had two sons both killed in WWII one was my Father and the other was my uncle. When my Father was killed I was four years old.
My Father was killed in Burma and my uncle was killed in Libya and all they got as recognition was a mention in The War Graves Commission Roll of Honour.
I feel the way this thread is going it will upset a lot of dedicated and sincere people - British Legion for one.

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They are helping the Iraqi government, they arent against Iraq as a country. No official war has been declared.

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I didn't even say past war veterans didnt deserve recognition, I said there was no necessary need to reward them with materialistic things.
People don't join the army for a medal, they join it to fight and gain honour. Simple as that. I think many would say they'd be happy without a medal if they did the country a good deed.

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It was a War Blazey......bad things happened on all sides.....wars are bad things all round...people get killed, tortured, gassed......and you want to think yourself fortunate that you have not had to live through anything like it........and you should hope you never have to in the future either.

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How does a person ever learn if they are not allowed to? I wonder what makes you so intelligent and/ or experienced? What makes you think that you are better than any other person? Maybe the people that keep putting Blazey down would be better served by explaining their points in a different way. I don't believe that the teachers of today teach their students by mocking them!

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I would go and fight for my country if needed, I would go fight now if necessary but most families in this generation don't want to send their children to war. They'd rather send them to university or get a normal safe job.

Many parents these days refuse to let their children go to fight in the war. The honour isn't enough for this country anymore because they'd rather gain materially from fighting in the war.

Your saying we are living through a war margeret, we are just fortunate someone hasn't come to bomb us yet.
Living in accy though and the way we are quite racist in our conservative northern ways at times I feel more lucky that there isnt something worth bombing, because then I would be worried.

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So in Blazey world the revenge rape of German women (where is the three million figure from?), sort of compensates them for being Nazis, and the atrocities they inflicted on millions of Jews, Gypsies, homosexuals etc, never mind the thousands of people who were killed fighting them?

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I didn't say we were living through a war at all.

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Such as?

Food for their orphaned children, or in the case of Margaret Pilkington's dad, a pair of glasses?

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Homes and good health care would be a good start.

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Medals and certificates, the point of the original thread maker before we started to discuss benefits. I have no interest in the benefit system.

Maybe its Gods cruel way of having a laugh at those who fight in the war, who knows, I'm not the one who decides the benefit system and if I had something to complain about I'd go and lobby about it, not whinge on accy web about it. What difference is it going to make anyway?

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You can't feed your children medals....or buy glasses either.

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I'll tell you how people learn. They learn by listening to people who maybe know better and then adjust their opinion accordingly. The problem with blazey is that they don't adapt their opion, they just keep on going despite they fact that they are naively opinionated.

That is a major problem with the our society today. People are encouraged to believe that whatever they think is right and that nobody knows any better, even when they are blantantly wrong. People are not prepared to listen and then reformulate their opinions based on what others are saying. They just keep on believing they're right in a classic postmodern fashion.

And where did all that 'teacher stuff' come from?

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Benefits aren't an award, they are a necessity. Hence why I dont see why the thread is about benefits.

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This was the first post of the thread.

'Could we have a topic about war veterans please? I'm interested in what the general public think they deserve upon returning from war. All wars are of interest from the World wars to Vietnam, The Gulf war and The Argentinian war. Should we treat them any better than anyone else and, should we treat them even better after a particularly bloody war?'

Therefore how we treat war veterans, and the benefits they, or their families receive on their return, is very relevant to the discussion.

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Stuff is taught, but only the bits that lead to a qualification. Subjects today are so compartmentalised that nobody get anywhere near a true education. Instead we end up with loads of people with skant knowledge, but the belief that they are all-knowing. Very dangerous combination.

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Blazey, I wasn't talking about benefits as you understand them today......I was talking about a total lack of care for a man who gave up 6 years of his life to fight for the freedom of this country...believing that he would come home and be looked after....his needs cared for...especially as his needs were made necessary by the fact that he fought for the country...but you just don't get it do you?

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Would you adapt your thoughts on subject if you thought that I knew better than you?

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Well its a shame that the past war veterans didnt get benefits but right now the situation is even worse and I dont see anyone having a complain about that.
We wont even have a military hospital soon in this country, thats if they havent already had to shut it down, and thats because of lack of funding.

That lack of funding is due to the amount of people who dont pay their way in the country and we have to keep giving money to those that should be working. If theres anything to whinge about that, not at an 18yr old still at college who is just being bullied on a forum thats apparently full of adults.

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There were no benefits after the second world war.....what was available was called National Assistance and was Means tested.

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There are no military hospitals to my knowledge......all military personnel are treated in NHS facilities now.

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There used to be a military hospital. Nearly every country with an army in the world has one. Ours is one of the few who no longer have one.

Our Army may have been one of the best but it isnt no longer, and it isnt because of people like me ;)

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I probably have more experience of the subject being that both my father and grandfather were in the army during wars. I didn't see them whining about care, medals or anything else. They did their duty, came home and got on with their lives.

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Well they were lucky.

Lucky not to be dead, or disabled,

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or not being able to pay the bills or poll tax or council tax or afford to heat their houses, etc etc etc

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Hey blazey whats this?

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:...9/cenotaph.jpg

Something my grandfather never got chance to see in person after surviving WW2 i was humbled enough to visit earlier this year on his behalf.

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Yes, my father was in WW2, and my grandfathers on both sides were in WW1.....but that does not give me any formal qualifications...only experience of my fathers ill health, and anecdotal evidence from both of my grandfathers...but that wasn't what we were supposed to be discussing.....my father too came home and got on with his life (miserable as it was) because there was no option.....none of the politicians promises held good.....but was it ever thus.

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The benefit system for everyone in the country is so crap that unfortunatly I couldnt afford to go on my world war 2 college trip. Only I got on with it instead of complaining about the benefit system.

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Ps yes he survived but many of his conrads didnt & the stuff he witnessed was horrific, he suffered many nights long after with nightmares not only of his conrads dying but also the concemtration camp, he also lost majority part of his stomach due to stay in prisoner of war stalag 18A.

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Many of your forefathers that fought would simply be turning in their graves at your disgraceful, ignorant & selfish immaturity its unreal!!!! Many died in the wars before to give YOU the lifestyle that YOU mock so profusely & with shear arrogance!:mad:

Who's paying for your college course, living etc?

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And for the record Michelle had TWO grandfathers and a Great Grandfather that fought in the wars. I dare say that she could tell more war stories than the lot of you put together!

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It is rather tragic that my Father and Uncle cant tell there war stories.
They both died!!!

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Their chosen career was to be in a position to put their lives on the line if the need arose and that meant having the enemy chuck bombs and bullets at them. The need has arisen and the servicemen and women are doing their duty. It matters not that war has been declared or not. The bullet ripping through your heart is just the same and does just the same killing.

Not a proper war eh? Just exactly what is a proper war?

Conscripts, on the other hand, had no option but to go and fight and most did so willingly so that we can speak in English, have civil rights and be able to whinge about this that and the other. And so that 18 years olds can pour scorn on the armed forces.

Many people do wonderful things for the country but only the armed forces are fired upon and bombed as part of their duty. The current and ex-servicmen and women deserve better than what they get.

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Thankyou, much appreciated

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All men and women who volunteered or were conscripted into the armed forces should be rewarded for their courage with a decent armed forces pension whether or not they got involved in an actual armed conflict. You only got a pension if you served a minimum of 21 years.

Those who come back home mentally or physically disabled should receive a full disability pension so that they can live out the rest of their lives comfortably above the poverty line. For those who did not come back, the surviving spouse until his/her death or any children if the spouse is deceased and they are in full time education, should receive a pension well above the poverty line.

Most ex-servicemen and women would be highly embarrassed if they were to be classed as heroes and saw their own involvement as only doing what had to be done. However most ex-servicemen and women would be quietly pleased if for just a few seconds each year the civilian population remembered the sacrifices that the armed forces made.

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I find your comments totally out of order blazey and a smack in the gob for any serviceman or woman. Maybe you get off with some perverse sort of pleasure in winding people up.

Like hundreds of thousands of others, when the call to arms came in 1914, my father volunteered to fight in the Great War (WWI to you) at the tender age of just 18. His ‘mucker’ was just 17 but lied about his age so that he could join up. Many kids did, some as young as 15.

He served at Gallipolis, Egypt and Europe, got wounded three times and gassed once yet after suitable hospitalisation he went back to the front. He even stayed in the army after the war ended to help sort the Russian problem. His reward – just a demob suit. 1 shirt, 3 collars, 1 tie, 1 pair of socks and shoes, 3 piece suit, overcoat, trilby hat and a railway warrant to go home and no job to go to. He like all the others was left to fend for himself.

Shortly after the outbreak of WWII he was captured and interned in a concentration camp for the duration of the war. My mother was left with two small boys (3 & 5) to bring up with no help from the government at all.

He died in 1948 at the age of just 52 (when I was eleven) as a result of his war experiences. The only help that my mother got to bring up two boys was from the British Legion and the miserable pittance called National Assistance.

In 1954 I joined the Royal Navy at the age of 16 years and 11 months and served all over the world for 13 years before being demobbed with £200 (about 12 weeks civilian wages) and a railway warrant to get me home. Not even a demob suit. I too was left to fend for myself and I had a wife and two children to support.

If the clock could be turned back, I have no doubt that my father would volunteer for Kitchener’s army, I would certainly join the Royal Navy and my brother would also do as he did and join the RAF. Why? Because we felt it was our duty to be ready to defend the country.

Bless 'em all, bless 'em all
The long and the short and the tall
Bless all the sergeants and W.O. Ones
Bless all the corp'rals and their blinking sons
For we're saying good-bye to them all
As back to the barracks we crawl
You'll get no promotion this side of the ocean
So cheer up my lads Bless 'em all.

Re: War veterans
 

Jambutty that says it all........you and your relatives all have the experience -first hand,of the homecoming, to a land that these boys were told would be fit for heroes.....and found that the politicians promises were blown away like dust.
My dad was rescued from the Dunkirk beaches....two of his best friends never made it home.......he suffered ill health for many years as a direct result of his war time service.....and he and my mother were too proud to ask for, or expect any help.....until they were in dire straits. Then when they asked for help none was forthcoming. And Blazey thinks she knows all about the war because she was taught it at school! And she also thinks that being under an occupied force 'would be no bad thing'...it makes me want to weep.

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One day my generation might be looking after you lot in carehomes. Thats if the government bother funding them for you all.

I said they deserve recognition and didnt give an opinion on benefits. I dont think medals are necessary. I think thats simple enough.

The new generation of people in this country move to fast to stop and think about the old people in care homes or a past war. They have the future to think about.

If I deserve a smack in the gob so be it, it saves me going to bother remembering accy pals on november 11th in the rain just to be shouted at by the old codgers on accy web.

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Because I'm not showing them disrespect by saying they would probably be happy without medals.
By saying that you assumed I also meant the benefit system (or lack of).

Just because I think most servicemen should be satisfied with the honour they recieve on returning isnt offensive.

Many Americans want their sons to join the army to do honour for the family.
A hell of alot of american families have sons in the army.

How many people on accy web have sons in the forces right now serving in Iraq? Even Harry isnt allowed to honourably die in the war anymore. Nobody gives a damn about the forces in this generation because most people now think education and getting a good career is the right choice, not joining the army.

The army only really advertise at those with low/no gcse's anymore. And thats because people WITH gcse's want the honour of a university education, not the army thats now reknown for the number of chavs in it.

Re: War veterans
 

Maybe it wouldnt be so bad living under German ruling, I wouldnt know and neither would you seen as it never happened. We fought to have terrorism laws inforced on us and 'politically correct' crap.

Well i'll exercise my freedom of speech. I didnt say one offending thing til you lot started nagging me and picking fault as usual.

I said medals werent necessary and mentioned the current war. Big ****ing deal.

Re: War veterans
 

Most of the servicemen who fought in the wars didn't get medals. What would have been nice though would have been if they'd had a decent leg up into civilian life when they were demobbed.

Yes you did say one offending thing and you've said it again - the idea that it wouldn't have been so bad to live under German rule.

Are you really so naive? It wouldn't have been anything like the Germany of today. You wouldn't have had the freedom to voice your opinion for one thing. If Hitler had won the war and his party had ruled this country since the 1940s do you think it would be a country worth living in? Do you think some of us would even have been allowed to live? I can think of several who would have been consigned to extermination camps. Or don't you believe they existed?

Re: War veterans
 

Incredible, truly incredible. And I thought you were supposed to be educated. :mad:

Re: War veterans
 

Re: War veterans
 

That sites on my favourites aswell. I have quite a few, I used them for my art project.

Re: War veterans
 

I agree with that comment without reservation.
I know that Len has cleaned this thread up somewhat which is good.
As a veteran or ex-serviceman whichever you want to call it, many veterans will be very upset if the thread is left in its current format.
The rantings of a young member, who has only just reached majority has turned this thread into a farce.
I do not appreciate being called an old fogi or any other derogatory remark as regards my service or any remarks aimed at my fellow servicemen and women
who have served this country with distinction over many years.
The way this thread has gone it is hard to believe that the member in question has if fact been the author

Re: War veterans
 

Re: War veterans
 

Many kudos to Len for doing an excellent job in restoring this thread. Unfortunately the two pics I added to my last post did not survive the restoration. But no matter I will put them with this post.

Awarding a serviceman or woman a medal is just a cheap way of the government recognising what an individual has done for the country. But thousands of ex and current servicemen and women wear their medals with pride, as they should.

However blazey you are half right in your assertions that medals are not necessary if it applies to the generals, admirals and air marshals who sat behind desks deep underground well away from the nasty end of war, planning who should be killed or maimed next.

The civilians who got killed and maimed in the ‘Blitz’ are more deserving of recognition than the generals etc. safe in their bunker.

Quote:

We fought to have terrorism laws inforced on us and 'politically correct' crap.

We blazey? Getting a bit above yourself, aren’t you?

Finally, please leave this thread alone so that others who follow can see what sort (in some cases) of younger generation we have spawned. Fortunately blazey is the exception because most youngsters that I know don’t think like you.

Re: War veterans
 

Re: War veterans
 

Well, this turned out to be some thread, didn't it? I believe I'll return to Piltymon's original intent by saying that I think we owe our servicemen and women eternal gratitude.

My husband served three tours of duty in Viet Nam. He was not treated with disrespect when he returned home from the war. He served there with men from all over the U.S. and the vast majority of them went on to live normal happy lives.....(Hollywood movies notwithstanding.) Having interrupted his university education in order to enlist in the Army during the war, he availed himself of the GI Bill upon his return. This government program paid for his tuition when he re-entered the university system.

I think many Viet Nam vets were treated badly when they returned. However, that seemed to depend upon which area of the country they came from. Nowadays, most Americans treat our troops like rock stars. Every time I go to the Atlanta airport, any inbound or outbound members of the military are treated to a spontaneous round of applause. I know how much they appreciate the support - since they aren't getting it in Congress or the major media. Americans have a network of private organizations, founded specifically to aid military personnel and their families.

This thread has been most interesting to read.

Re: War veterans
 

Wouldn't choose a forces career myself; but I have a healthy respect to those who do and find themselves posted to the "hotspots". For those who were forced to fight,it's a different matter entirely; my great great uncle was an Accrington Pal; lied about his age and didn't come back.His mates were going so he thought he might as well tag along. Many of these young lads had no idea what was awaiting them.
I can't see how there is any " honour" in having your limbs blown off.
Blazey; read some War poets; Siegfried Sassoon and Wilfred Owen have a very realistic view on this.

Re: War veterans
 

Thank's for sorting this thread out and putting it back on, after all since the great war it is worthwhile to remember the phrase, lest we forget, I will never be asked to make the sacrifice so many did, but under no circumstances should the efforts of many that not only sacrificed their lives but also what could be called a 'normal', life for the protection of future generations, they deserve far more praise than obviously some people can understand.
:(

Re: War veterans
 

I think it is a mistake to confuse support for a war, and support (both during and after the conflict) for the troops. One need not necessarilly support a conflict, but one must support the troops. Or end up apologising for not doing so .... like Jane Fonda ... over, and over and over. Like many Canadians, I oppose the Afghan conflict, but, like most Canadians I fully support the men and women of the Canadian armed forces who are fighting and dying there. There is no paradox.

My grandad Ashton fought in the first war. He was shot and gassed near Ypres. He got almost sod all for a pension. But he never bitched and whined. He was of a different generation ... no, a different time. He was proud that he had done his duty for his country and his comrades. And, on a lighter note, the biggest fight of his life was keeping my gran from dismembering me when I dropped his medals down the grate outside her house.

Re: War veterans
 

Re: War veterans
 

My uncle died in WW2 and is buried out in Burma. I found his name on the commonwealth graves commission website and you can see where he's buried. Every 11th November at 11am i stop what im doing and shut up for 2 mins. To me that is giving respect to the people who fought and either died or came home from the war. I didnt know my uncle - i wasnt born until 22 years after the war had finished. Ive got one photo of him and thats of him in his uniform. My dad didnt go to war - he was in a reserved occupation - he was a farmer - and then he was brought over here to work in Liverpool on the docks. My mum told me stories of what it was like to live in northern ireland during the war and not far from the border to Eire - they could nip over the border and get stuff that was rationed in the north but because the south was neutral they still could buy it but would have to smuggle it across the border.

But soldiers, sailors and airmen/women should have something to show for being away from their families and for fighting in a war. Something to show that they were there fighting for our freedom. Dont you get something to show for your hard work in your exams well then why cant they have something to show for their hard work - maybe a disability or illness?

Like the story Eric reminds me of what my mum did to me when she found out i'd took my uncles medals to school one day - she went mad. Thank god i didnt lose them otherwise i think my life wouldnt have been worth living!!!! lol

Re: War veterans
 

Lost for ever unfortunately ... but my grandad thoutht it was funny ... until the day he died, and he died in '51, he always had a good laugh about it. My gran got over it soon, she said in later life that it was one of the funny memories she had, in retrospect ... me, hanging over the grate, with the last of my grandad's medals.:)

Re: War veterans
 

can sympathize with that , when I was about 17 I "borrowed" my Grandads WW1 and my Dads WW2 medals and pinned them on my parka (it was the time of Sgt. Pepper etc) when my Dad saw them he went ballistic .......wasn't the fact I had borrowed them, it was that I had the wrong ribbons on the wrong medals that 'upset' him .
as an aside the medals are now with my Son for safekeeping , he keeps them with his wife's Fathers and Grandfathers medals from the same conflicts , but these were awarded by the Kaiser and Adolf :eek: :eek: